>every NATO soldier could have had a bullpup AR with an optical sight in the fucking 50s if the Americans hadn't been gigafudds Why is this timeline so ass
>>65634444checked, it was a good rifle and cartridgeNeeded more design/development work though
>it's good because it's... different!!!
>>65634451The US was nearly-catastrophically behind the times in terms of small arms tech by the 60s. They actively refused to adopt an assault rifle for two DECADES after it was invented because of Fudd bullshit about muh stopping power. Everyone else recognized it was a good idea but because the US called the shots in NATO, everyone else was forced to gimp themselves with battle rifles for decades because the US demanded everyone use 7.62x51. Then when they finally switched it took decades more to procure the ARs everyone had wanted back in the fucking 50s. Meanwhile the Soviets were spamming AKs at everyone.
>>65634468To be fair, the 7.62 requirement didn't actually mean anything. The French straight up refused to comply, continuing to use their own 7.5 French round well into the 70's.>>65634451It's not just the EM2, the CETME A that the Spanish were cooking was an excellent rifle as well. It was another program killed because of the want for NATO standardization.
The .280 was fat, slow and would have been a dead end. Russia showed that by abandoning the similar 7.62x39 for the 5.45 after the US adopted the AR-15
>>65634492That's good and fine but doesn't change the fact it was still better than continuing to use a full power cartridge.
>>65634505It was garbage compared to everything else available.All the power and terminal ballistics of the x39 with the bulk of the x51.
>>65634451Its gud because its shorter with more rearward weight distribution, but in your mind this is the same as just looking slightly different for its own sake
What the hell happened to US small arms between 1945 and 1964?M14 was a wildly more complicated and expensive way to achieve what Italy did with the BM59 (modernise the Garand)M60 was a complete waste of effort when the FN MAG existedFortunately things got back on track with the M16, and we eventually saw reason and swapped over to the FN MAG (M240)
>>65634492Wrong.
>>65634526Even with the M16 they fudded as much as they could get away with. McNamara forced it on them, but they still managed to force the forward assist in for literally no reason and cut the magazine down to 20 rounds because muh ammo wastage.
>>65634444If the British really wanted their Bullpup assault rifle then the could have done what Japan did with the Howa and used a reduced load 7.62 NATO cartridge in their rifles.
>>65634468>everyone else was forced to gimp themselves with battle rifles for decades because the US demanded everyone use 7.62x51.Bullshit. The US requested that everyone adopt cartridges they used so that in the case of another large-scale conflict, in which a lend-lease program was needed. Countries that had no interest in getting supplied by the US (like France for example) didn't switch.
M-14 lamenters are retarded subhumans who are probably brown as well
>>65634526Europhile faggot
>>65634532The forward assist is fine and acting like it's utterly useless and evil is new fuddery at its finest. >>65634678The m14 just isn't that good of a rifle but that doesn't mean it's the worst ever made. It's a flawed rifle made for a concept that its replacement more or less completely dominates in.
>>65634444>we could all have bullpups if not for fuckin america>america makes rifle that dominates every single major conflict, everyone copies, and every foreign special operations unit uses over the shitty standard issue bullpupsThank God.
>>65634719I liked it better when it was more our gun than anyone else's and only special forces types overseas has ARs
>>65634724>hashad
>>65634492>>65634516SCHV-schizo, take your meds and stop posting your gibberish.
>>65634444>retard continues to think 7.62x39mm+ is a good idea The M14 and 7.62x51mm was objectively correct and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
>>65634727It's the TRUE right arm of the free world, it's for everyone who believes in the way of the jedi.
>>65634826>it's for everyone who believes in the way of the jedi.Ironic you say that in the midst of a meme-mania using Jedi and the Empire to illustrate leftist vs right wing thought
>>65634678this but 7.62x39 and adjacent lamenters are twenty times that.
>>65634851>using Jedi and the Empire to illustrate leftist vs right wing thoughthow is leftists pretending to be the unequivocal good side and the right wingers to be the totalitarian socialists again relevant or notable?
>>65634851Are they? I don't really pay attention to mentally ill people.
I'd defend the idea that the US actually had pretty good reasons for pushing for a .30 caliber cartridge. Beyond the logistical question of production and having your rifle and machine gun use the same caliber, early experiments in duplex bullets would require a larger base caliber to be effective. Had those turned out better than the choice would likely have been seen as forward thinking. Doctrinally, with the rise of mechanized warfare, nuclear weapons and smaller unit sizes, I don't think that the common complaint that "the US refused to learn the lessons of WWII" is as fair. For every person who says that, they're also just as likely to smugly state that "Armies always prepare for the last war", and there was no promise that you'd see close-medium range combat occurring at the same rate in the new world of warfare.
>>65635212Assault rifles would collapse in nuclear war. Automatic fire is extremely wasteful, something that the US learned in Veitnam, and a rifle that can reach out and touch someone past 400M is a very nice thing to have. >last warThe US was actually learning from the Germans from the Eastern front, many German rifle sections had to be responsible for 800 meter fronts, and the only capable weapon was the MG42. In Korea the US suffered almost the same conditions, and the M14 would have been perfect for that style of warfare. In nuclear war infantry units by necessity would be far more spread out, and the 7.62x51mm rounds would be able with AP ammo to penetrate Soviet apc's.
>>65635278Keep going Anon, you're almost at peak fuddlore, just a little further. Try telling us that air to air missiles are useless because they added a gun to the F4 in Vietnam.
>>65634487France was not in NATO for a long time. Maybe they were right, see the last two years.
>>65635281A2A missiles were worthless because of the technology wasn't mature and doctrine was flawed. Keep coping.
>>65635283Good anon, let the fuddlore consume you.
>>65635285>completely ignores reality Google is free nigger.
>>65635288It is indeed. Try reading up on the doctrinal problems the USAF was forcing onto its pilots at the time and why they were doing that. Retard.
>>65635289>dosen't read the postJesus Christ.
>>65635291>Keeps pushing his retarded slop opinion because he's afraid of reading in general.
>>65634444another midwit centering his takes and personality around a historical footnote purely on the basis of its obscurity.
>>65635291Anon, arguing with retards just makes both of you stupider.
"Stay mad, browns."- Rene Studler
>>65634444Once again, a reminder that it's only in battle rifles that the bullpup layout has the absolute, objective edge. With intermediate caliber rifles not so much.
>>65634444>>65634449.276 British was abysmal, the 'potential cartridge' incarnate. It had the POTENTIAL to be more accurate, the POTENTIAL to reach higher velocities, and the POTENTIAL to be just as good a mother cartridge for special ammunition types. The only problem was that it never WAS. Even with extra development time it never caught up to what became the 7.62x51mm. The EM-2 was not a mature platform either. The US was perfectly justified in putting down the Bong's delusion and the 7.62x51mm NATO was clearly the superior choice. Now, whether they should have adopted anything at all and waited for the AR-15 and the 5.56x45mm to come about is another question entirely.>>65634779Correct.
>>65634444Where would this timeline be today?How would it have developed?
>>65635600>Now, whether they should have adopted anything at all and waited for the AR-15 and the 5.56x45mm to come about is another question entirely.Absolutely not, hell we were right to not wait for the AR-10 to get sorted out by the Dutch or for Germany to make the G3 (which is objectively the best of the 3, no I will not explain). The alternative is to rock WWII-era equipment as standard into the 60s when Russia is rapidly modernizing it's infantry equipment. That just won't do, not while the threat of war is constantly looming overhead and NATO has absolutely no standardization. Forcing 7.62 at least got most of us using the same rifle cartridge, which is way better than having to supply 30-06, 303, 7.5, and 8x57 (and that's ignoring 30 carbine and potentially 8mm kurtz too)
>>65635584So are bullpup marksmen/sniper rifles the meta?
>>65635600EM-2 wasn't designed for .276, it was calibred for .280.>already wrong after the first word >only gets worse "The US was perfectly justified in putting down the Bong's delusion" is disingenuous as history tells us that the Americans were never going to accept anything other than a American designed gun rather than working for a NATO unity that didn't, and that after insisting on using the 7.62×51mm; an American calibre. Hence why they adopted the M14 instead of the FAL, even after the British did, and then the M14 turned out to be a piece of shit which they ditch only a decade after adoption.
>>65635650>The alternative is to rock WWII-era equipment as standard into the 60sThere was nothing wrong with M1 Garand or 30-06 though.> when Russia is rapidly modernizingYeah, to the ww2-tech level, up from ww1 era mosins and shitass smgs.
>>65635799I get you have to make these performative posts so anon doesn't call you a zigger but post WW2 USSR was rapidly gearing up and I sure as fuck wouldn't want to have an 8 shot semi auto 30-06 in the 60's while Russia has enough extra AK-47s and AKMs to deliver them by the warehouse load to every African warlord and commie asian seamonkey on the planet.
>>65635600>ESL s#@mbabblechecked, Nothing in this post is correct
>>65634444>>65634468bullpups are assyuropoor guns are assbong guns are assjust look at the l85, fatso
>>65635788>Americans were never going to accept anything other than a American designed gunThey came within a hairs breadth of adopting the FAL until it proved to be shit in the cold. After that point the M14 began outpacing its development
>>65636678>until it proved to be shit in the coldkek both the British and Argies used the FAL in the Falklands which is literally in antarctica you fucking retard
>>65634678In every battle rifle test on goytube I've seen the m14 outperforms the fal and g3. It is a legit good battle rifle,but battle rifles as a whole are an outdated concept.
>>65634526>>65634532Hostile and malicious intent. A few dozen men should have been hanged for treason or murdered like dogs.
>>65638644>Falklands which is literally in antarcticaNo it isn't, dumbass. It's cold in the way England is: cool and always damp. It barely gets below freezing there.https://weatherspark.com/y/150225/Average-Weather-in-Falkland-Islands-Year-Roundhttps://weather.com/fk/city/stanley/tendayhttps://oceanwide-expeditions.com/faq/what-is-the-temperature-and-weather-like-in-the-falkland-islands?srsltid=AYCX9vKGR5QULIy7gPR-nu3AQp7b324Kq3v4Mb1WJUu1s1Vr4LTVPLmn
>>65638644Someone got an F in geography.
>>65638881No kidding, with such boldness at that.t. geography/cartography nerd
>>65638644The Falkands war took place nearly 30 years after the US was evaluating the T48 so comparing those rifles to prototypes is retarded, and their testing was far more extreme than the Falkands average temperatures during that conflict
>>65634851The recent meme is specifically about Anakin and it’s not about left-right politics, it’s about zoomer-boomer intergenerational comparisons
>>65634444>.270 British>.280 BritishTrash.>EM2Double-trash.
>>65634468The M16 was adopted in 1964, and it kicks the EM2s and SA80's ass.>>65634526>M14 was a wildly more complicated and expensive way to achieve what Italy did with the BM59True.>M60 was a complete waste of effort when the FN MAG existedThat can be debated. The M60 as originally adopted had quite a lot of flaws, but it was also a considerably lighter weight GPMG which was far easier to move around with. The MAG is robust and reliable as fuck, but it's also heavy as balls, which is why there's been multiple efforts to lighten the M240.>>65634532>McNamara forced it on themMcNamara forced it on them because it was a modern rifle which had done really good in field testing and which Colt was tooled up to produce right then and there, while the M14 was still struggling with production.>but they still managed to force the forward assist in for literally no reason That was the Army's own idea, and if you're not a fucking retard, the forward assist is actually good.>and cut the magazine down to 20 rounds because muh ammo wastage.They reduced capacity because the original 25rd steel waffle mags were simply not working as reliably as was wanted, the 20rd aluminum mags were more reliable and lighter in weight. Hardly perfect themselves, but 20rds is still quite a lot to work with.
>>65634444>bullpupthe choice weapon design of the all knowing basement dweller
>>65638806>Hottest month's avg temp is 56°F/13°CGrim. Maybe the Falklanders should give the Island over to Argentina.
>>65634779The M14 was dated, but also not meaningfully worse than the G3 or FAL (IMO it's better than the G3, I like the sights and reload much more).>>65635278Christ, what a bunch of bullshit.>>65635788The M14 wasn't so much ditched because of its qualities as a battle rifle, it was ditched because production lagged the fuck behind beyond belief, and the M16 (which was basically purchased as a stopgap because of that), had then proven to be a mostly superior rifle.
>>65639310Why would they? For them it's basically just living in a windier version of England, but without the cities and crime. Sounds comfy to be honest
>>65638644>the Falklands which is literally in antarctica
>>65634526>M60 was a complete waste of effort when the FN MAG existeddoesn't a MAG/240 weigh twice as much as a M60?
>>65639330Like 7 pounds more than the M60
>>65639330>>65639343Fucking NO, Christ, the M60 weighs like 23lbs unloaded, the FN MAG weighs 26-27lbs.
>>65639316>For them it's basically just living in a windier version of EnglandIt's not. In the UK, even up to northern Scotland Summers still average over 22 degrees C or 72 degrees F. That is a world of difference from 13/56. >Sounds comfy to be honestThey never get proper T-shirt / swimming pool weather. Nothing sounds comfy about that.
>>65639364>Summers still average over 22 degrees C or 72 degrees F. That is a world of difference from 13/56.That figure was the daily average including that day's low and high. You're going by average high temperature reached on a given day. I think this is where this mix-up is coming from
>>65639394I checked the weather network, average daily high in January, their warmest month is 13°C. This is what their Summer looks like.
>>65634444quads of truth>>65634468>>65634678the M14 and 7.62x51 made sense economically at the time>just won massive war with a semi-auto .30 cal battle rifle>still have manufacturing and tooling facilities for .30 cal rifles and parts>still have .30 cal ammo production both in the USA and in Europe>"hey, why don't we save a few bucks and just re-use most of this on a slightly different rifle based on this one we we're already using? We can use the savings to uplift niggers in Africa or something." -someone at the Pentagon, probablya no-brainer, really. It would have been cool to be in the bullpup timeline tho
>>65639472The M14 was reinvented from the ground up, it shares almost zero parts with the M1, the notion that they'd be able to use the same tooling was a suggestion but which wasn't ever made reality.This is why some argue the Italian BM59 was superior, as it actually IS a modified M1 and uses much of the same tooling and parts, and then does basically the same thing.
>>65634468we were developing .22 caliber m2 carbines just after korea, the weapons just didn't develop until the 60s. when the m16 came around, it was a leapfrog over everything else in the field and is still in active service. the m14 was fine too and a good choice over it's competitors when it was adopted, btw.
>>65639529Oh yeah, that was Melvin Johnson's idea, that the M2 Carbine could be converted into an SCHV fighting carbine on a budget, with his .22 Spitfire (or 5.7mm Johnson) cartridge, a necked down .30 U.S Carbine loaded with a 40gr .224 caliber FMJ that did like 2700-2800ft/s.In field testing, these were fairly well liked, because you already had that nice and light handy little carbine everyone already loved, but now the recoil is much lower, ammo is a little lighter, and range, trajectory, and terminal ballistics are mostly a lot better.But then the AR15, indeed, just absolutely leapfrogs past it, it's just way better than even that. Kind of a shame that it didn't get much traction, because M1 and M2 Carbines would have been extra amazing if they were actually widely available for the cartridge, and the ammo was around.
>>65635282>date of accession: August 24, 1949 (date NATO was founded)
>>65639264>video gamer brainletmemesWrong.
>>65639585I'm sure the EM2 was a wunderwaffen and not a dubious piece of shit.
>>65639565And since 1959 they gradually removed their military assets from NATO command and withdrawed from NATO military structures, culminating in 1966-67 closure of all NATO bases in France and relocation of NATO headquarters to Belgium.
>>65640819>more video gamer ESL schizbarfbabbleThe rifle—as stated fp itt—and cartridge required further development.just as the intial 1957 AR-10 and later AR-15 did
>>65634487>>65635282>>65639565>>65640991france did the gay ass french tranny thing where they left nato so they could pretend to be white, first world and independent, but all of their classified military documents at the time showed they were still coordinating with nato and that if the russians attacked they already had plans and agreements with nato in place for france to immediately rejoin natothe US and bongland treated france way too well post WWII
>>65641092>>65639585M16 rules, EM2 drools, .270 Bri'ish is for niggers.https://litter.catbox.moe/ilz8xliyjcm4i384.mp4
>>65634444Now we have the opportunity to build what should have been.>28" barrel, 36" OAL (with suppressor)>85,000 psi peak alloy case .24 Nosler with VLD EPR bullet>50 round quad stack, dual feed magazine
>>65641305>ESL still dilating after repeated BTFO
>>65634526The M60 was considerably lighter
>>65641359which was a nice bonus, but hardly made up for the huge discrepancy in reliability
>>65641359A decent bit, but not a lot, see: >>65639347It's the M60E3 iteration which ends up being about 20lbs.Mind, the original M60 had shit like the bipod mounted on the barrel, so if you carried a spare barrel, you also carried a spare bipod for no real good reason.It's more with the later iterations of the M60 that it gets more distinctly light.The M60E3, among trying to address some of the flaws, some of them successfully, some of them not, also did lighten the thing up a bit (and not just by having a single bipod mounted to the gas tube instead), but that was quite a lot later on.
>>65641367It was a bit give and take with the M60. If you babied the thing and did meticulous maintenance, it'd actually keep running pretty well over time, but if you didn't (which wasn't unusual), it'd slowly but surely start going south.The people who got them first quite liked them, because it was WAY better than lugging around and fighting with an old Browning 1919 with a stock and bipod kludged onto it (or even worse, a 1919 which didn't), but then people who served later with them got to suffer the M60's long term durability problems.They actually did compare the M60 to the FN MAG early on, and what they found with early and brand new M60s, they were a bit more reliable, on top of being lighter and more maneuverable, but of course, the FN MAG is really built to last, which the original M60 absolutely wasn't, so 20 years later an FN MAG will still be running like a champ, while an old, tired, and neglected M60 is begging for the sweet release of death.
>>65641359Also notably shorter
>>65641425>FN MAG is really built to lastEssentially what the difference between the 2 guns comes down to. the MAG is (in comparison to the M60) built, has component design like a heavy machine gun
>>65641448MG42 style feed + FG42/Lewis Gun style action for a GPMG is a solid concept, but the M60 basically needed more time in the oven before it was adopted.The M60E3 was better in a bunch of ways, but it wasn't really enough, which is why the U.S Army finally went "Fuck it." and adopted the MAG as the M240B instead. These days, there's the M60E6, which is apparently very solid, but they aren't gonna replace the M240s with these any time soon.
>>65639472>reinvented from the ground up>zero parts with the M1yes, but what I meant was that it's still so mechanically similar even without direct parts commonality the US small arms industry could produce them with post-WW2 manufacturing technologies very quickly and at scale once the redesign was finalized. It is still a .30 cal rifle, which every American rifle shop could make a .308 or other .30 cal barrel at that point so they just kept doing so.
Eh, the M60 is a typical American gun, honestly. Nice to shoot and brings some serious advantages to the table, but also more complicated and more difficult to maintain than it really needs to be. You burgers laugh at Germans and Swiss for making complicated stuff yet worship JMB's designs that generally need 2 sizes of screwdrivers, clean table and a free afternoon to take apart and put back together...Anyway, M60 was and still is on the lighter end of machine guns even today and it feels compact, which must have been a miracle to guys used to lugging around an M1919A6. But it's also weirdly fragile, full of little protrusions to catch on things or break off and really feels kinda unfinished - like the designers spent so much time on Stellite barrels and self-regulating gas piston that they ended up having to rush everything else... Cool gun, but still kinda 2 to 3 more design iterations short of becoming really good...
>>65641594the main benefit of a lightweight, semi-bullpup machine gun would have been shoulder-firing but infantry squads got their GPMG replaced with an LMG instead, so theres not nearly as much incentive to shorten it except to make life a bit easier for the MG section
>>65641594>M60E6Not that they're a major world player necessarily, but interestingly Denmark chose and continues to use the M60E6, which I think is cool
>>65641631>2 sizes of screwdrivers, clean table and a free afternoon to take apart and put back together...None of brownings designs after the auto 5 were like that
>>65641810>>2 sizes of screwdrivers, clean table and a free afternoon to take apart and put back together...Why resort to hyperbole?
>>65641425>>65641367>>65641359No, fuck you, gun didn't work under steady use field conditions. It failed in ways its predecessors and contemporaries didn't. so its a piece of fucking shit.
>>65641842It worked so badly it was retained for decades, interesting approach. Or maybe you're just wrong :)
>>65641846>retained for decadesBy retards and jackasses who were unfirable, several of whom signed off on the sabotage of the 5.56 ammo for the early M16.
>>65639528oops I replied to myself instead of you, but this >>65641620 was my point
>>65641848Spaz confirmed, your word is not trustworthy.
>>65641848>sabotage of the 5.56 ammo for the early M16Oh fuck off with this stupid myth, changing the ammo had to happen
>>65641672Yes, they replaced their old MG3s with them.I imagine it must generally feel like an upgrade as it's an easier gun to handle and it's not a black hole for ammunition.
>>65641842>>65641848
>>65641842The original M60's problems really just is a bunch of general functional quirks of not-quite-thought-out design, and then poor long term durability (honestly, for the same reason).That's why it was fairly well liked early on, but hated as time went and the durability problems were catching up with them.>>65641916Changing the ammo indeed had to happen, the original powder just wasn't going to be available, but insufficient testing and experimentation still had dire consequences.
>>65641966>the durability problems were catching up with them.It was the victim of armorer neglect, they could have been kept going like tops, but they got hardly any maintenance beyond the operator
>>65641973Well, yes, but the M60 was very maintenance needy because it was an immature and not finished design. The locking lugs on the bolt will just fucking peen themselves because they simply do that, that's normal for the original M60, and you just smooth down the peening regularly, while on other machineguns, this would be considered unusual and a huge problem.
>>65634444Not just that, but with the .280 British and 70 years of development instead of just going around the houses until SIG copied the MOD's homework without understanding it and re-released it in a big fat fucking turd of a rifle
>>65642008.280 British and SIGs thing are nothing alike
lmao the bongs are trying to claim 6.8 now too
>>65642068You can stick 6.8 up your ass. Apparently.
>>65641810>but his late designs did NOT need screwdrivers! Only clean table and plenty of time!>>65641829>Why hyperbole?Cuz you 'muricans cannnot into subtle.I take the focus on minutiae in my writing and lack of counterarguments as a proof that I'm right BTW.JMB was an extremely talented and skilled guy who left an outstanding legacy, but so many of his designs double as mechanical puzzles it's not even funny. I believe he permanently skewed American perception of what is acceptable level of complexity. Otherwise you couldn't possibly have issued Reisings to guys in the Pacific...
>>65641986>very maintenance needy because it was an immature and not finished designalso known as a piece of shit.
>>65642369Yes.
Was watching Monty Python the other day and noticed the soldier was carrying an EM2Was the EM2 in common use for that very short moment when it was the service rifle?
>>65642633No, it was never produced at scale. It was announced for adoption in April 1951, then the procurement plan slowed down when Churchill was elected in October 1951, and he eventually reversed that decision by 1953 as a gesture of goodwill towards the Americans.The initial plan was to produce 1.5 million EM-2 at a pace of 9000 rifles a month, but they never ended up tooling up for the actual production and only around 60 prototype guns were built.Which Monty Python sketch / film was it?
>>65642633>Monty PythonWas it one of the archival stock footage clips (used for many of Flying Circus skits)?only a few dozen EM-2 rifles were built for service trials in early 1950s, the official British Army "adoption" lasted less than a year
>>65642676>official British Army "adoption" lasted less than a yearTechnically it was about two years and a bit. Churchill was initially going ahead with EM-2, and when he commited to 7.62 when the Americans refused to compromise on that, Enfield scrambled to rechamber EM-2 for 7.62 (there's like a dozen of those 7.62 EM-2s, built in 1954), but ultimately they just adopted the FAL.Here's a link to the February 1954 Commons debate where Churchill was getting hammered about it:https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1954/feb/01/british-army-new-rifle
>>65642713*And I'd recommend on focusing on the replies by Antony Head (Secretary of State for War), who's actually defending the government's decisions competently there. Churchill just comes off as clueless throughout and keeps dodging questions with jokes.
>>65642743**(and I'd actually recommend that approach to any debate Churchill took part in. He was a politician and diplomat with a skill for rhetoric but whenever anything technical comes up it's clear he doesn't know jack about shit.)
>>65642713kek
>>65642676>Was it one of the archival stock footage clipsYeah, its annoying that I can't remember the skit, believe it was one of the transition animations parodying joining the British Army, but it was one of the stock photos used.
>>65642349Name ONE of browning's military firearms that are tougher to dissasemble than its contemporaries.
>>65642804a good few amusing exchanges in there
>>65642853Here's Churchill going "I don't suppose the honorable gentleman has carried a rifle very far" to a bloke who was a regular soldier for 19 years and an officer for 8.A bit later when the same guy supposes he's the only member of the house who has fired the .303 to earn his proficiency pay, Churchill butts in to say "I have handled the Snyder and fired the Martini".
>>65634444>every NATO soldier could've had a L85-tier failure of a design in the 50's if Stoner didn't save the dayFTFY
>>65642673>and he eventually reversed that decision by 1953Good fucking riddance, the FAL is a much better rifle.
>>65634444Little known fact about the EM-2: the designer (Polish émigré Kazimierz Januszewski, who changed his name to Stefan K. Janson) left Britain for the US when the EM-2 thing fell through and worked at Winchester, eventually becoming Head of Engineering in the Arms Research and Development Department, and later Director of Arms Product Research. He worked on the experimental double-barrelled Winchester SALVO rifle and many civilian rifles sold by Winchester between the 50s and 70s.
>>65643467That makes sense, he seems like a mechanically creative sort. What did he put together for the commercial market?
>>65643481https://www.recoilweb.com/em2-rifle-britain-vs-america-round3-172031.htmlRecoil mentions including Winchester Models 190, 255, 1200, and 1400.
>>65643527is that the correct stance for shooting bullpups?
>>65643548Yes. They don't want you to know this but bullpups are actually meant to be shot one handed, allowing you to dual wield like a badass. Of course the military planners don't want their soldiers to be *too* cool so there's an active campaign to remove bullpups and ensure the nations that keep them never issue two at a time
>>65643548>>65643527they are naturally better balanced so its fine.
>>65643548I think he was just demonstrating its balance. Not all bullpups are well balanced, so it's important to demonstrate if yours are.
>>6564352750s aura farming
>>65643548That's the inventor painstakingly working to discover the ideal hold on his new weapon, it was still uncharted waters then
>>65642815>name oneEasy. M1985 Potato Digger machine gun. Unlike Maxim or 1897 Hotchkiss, it cannot be field stripped without tools while still attached to its mount. Actually it's one of the "2 sizes of screwdrivers" gun.Winchester 1895 lever action rifle is no better BTW.
>>65634534...and go against the entire reason why they accepted the 7,2x51 in the first place, which was interchangeable ammunition across the entire NATO.
