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/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /gq/... Anons discussed the great polyethylene bait-and-switch of China. Trash Sniper looked at some 16 year old MSA plates. I debated buying an ass beating hammer, and people actually discussed NIGHT VISION. /nvg/ lives!

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.179
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat:
/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)
Budget: Hesco L211
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: LTC 28780**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HW
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)
>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Paraclete 10800 (last ditch option)
Budget: Gilliam 1635 or Hesco 4403*
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept Emperor
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 / Hesco-Protech 2230-1 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002H (7N37?)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (7N37?)
Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** or 2572575** (M993)

I got quoted in a /gq/ thread image! I'm famous!

Lol lmao even.

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>>65637067
Ten years from now, the next generation of gear queers will go on desuarchive, look at this thread, and wonder what kind of bullshit we were all on.

>>65637078

Depending on how things go, they're either gonna be confused as to why we didn't have energy shields yet, or amazed we had armor that wasn't rusty scrap steel pulled out of the radioactive ruins of West Philly (born and raised).

That said I remain convinced their new Zylon production is going to sneak into the Chinese armor supply chain. Shit's gonna get even more sketchy at the lower end, mostly towards cheap soft armor panels from the likes of TacScorp and Botach. Some Youtuber is probably gonna get killed or at least severely wounded.

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>>65637091
>or amazed we had armor that wasn't rusty scrap steel pulled out of the radioactive ruins of West Philly
There's probably enough AR500 plates in circulation to keep them going for generations. Armor is common use now mayne.
>That said I remain convinced their new Zylon production is going to sneak into the Chinese armor supply chain.
Probably will. You can screen for it however, because they'll only use it when UHMWPE runs out of gas. Watch for expensive, very lightweight soft armor... and plates breaking these weight floors from last thread:
II: ~0.51psf
IIIA: ~0.68psf (with exception for Hardwire-57)
Level III: 1.8lb
RF1: 2lb
RF2: 2.9lb
RF2 + M855A1: 3.6lb
RF3: 4.5lb
M993: 6.2lb (that Craig plate from last thread sets the new floor here except for Ceradyne)
Zylon was top shelf stuff when new. China would likely be using it in unison with UHMWPE to concoct a new level above "J400" - kinda like Z-SHIELD.
There is the possibility they've also figured out how to resolve the degradation issue in the past twenty years. That's a slim one but cannot be ruled out. If so, that would be a strategic advantage they would want to keep behind closed doors and would require serious testing.
>Shit's gonna get even more sketchy at the lower end, mostly towards cheap soft armor panels from the likes of TacScorp and Botach. Some Youtuber is probably gonna get killed or at least severely wounded.
Zylon is shitlisted by the NIJ as a material. If anyone is gonna sell it it'll be some weird fly by night brand that rolls up with sub-4lb Level IVs and then dips the next week.

I'm IMHO more concerned with alternative sourcing PE causing a lot of chinese plates to pull an RMA and not match their youtube performance.

I will find the ultimate PE plate. In the meantime, anyone got recommendations on a scrim base garmet? Ucp surplus is speaking to me and the sewing machine is ready

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>>65637105
>I will find the ultimate PE plate
Make sure it isn't made by Tiancheng New Material co.

>>65637108
他妈的. Likely worth waiting to see what Gilliam/others cook up. I still want a lopro pl8, but it is not a rush job. I got ghilly to make. Go birds

fucking faggot ass thread just 2 people talking back and forth.

>>65637115
Excuse me, it's five people. That makes this thread about as much of a circlejerk as /arg/. Don't make me get pastebin in here too. Then things will really get funky... He'll probably make the furry fox get into a wholesome relationship with a cheap helmet from botach.

>>65637115
Show me on the doll where the armor touched you. You still scratch paint off your shit to make it look worn.

>>65637113
Longer you wait the better the plates will be. Five years ago sub-2lb, properly sized Level IIIs were urban legend. Now you whip out a grand and you can buy them no sweat. PE is the only thing really moving with armor. Speaking of, there is another avenue for UHMWPE improvements. Mechanophores.
https://bodyarmornews.com/2026-body-armor-research-roundup-part-1/
>In the Nature paper, mechanophores embedded in bulk polystyrene and styrene-butadiene-styrene (SBS) systems enabled deformation around the impact site and increased the toughness of the surrounding polymer networks. The authors reported up to approximately 115% greater energy absorption than the conventional, mechanophore-free thermosets.
That's in an article written by the head honcho at Adept, and is likely indicative of their future R&D efforts. Better PE = better backers for all their plates. It's a straight shot.

I have never heard of JMS Capital Alliance in my life but they apparently burned Ukraine on some failing plates.
https://bodyarmornews.com/ukraine-seeks-to-enforce-7-million-arbitration-award-against-us-body-armor-supplier/
Ukraine has an interesting shit list. Should probably see if it's possible to get a full copy. Botach Battle Steel is on it, for one, but Hyperion isn't.

>>65637104

That's what I was worried about last thread, they're gonna start substituting pasta-tier old school PE formulations to avoid sanctions/save money, or just straight up cutting back on material to do the same. Gonna make RMA's shenanigans look like LTC or Tencate here.

>>65637140
And nobody will ever know, given how infrequently non-CPL'd armor is independently tested.
On a long enough timeframe, someone wil inevitably get shot and their sub par armor will drop the ball, so sooner or later there will be a reckoning, IMO.

>>65637091
>Some Youtuber is probably gonna get killed
INSHALLAH BROTHER, SOON.

>>65637165

Gonna be interesting the first time Buff tests Tianjing Xiaoming Best New Armor LLC's superlight IV+++ and an M855 tears it open like it was hit by 120mm HEAT. Shit's gonna be WILD.

>>65637180
Tianjiang will just C&D him and the test will have never happened. It'll be like the six TAX Extremes he didn't show, the failed RMA ESRT, the Hudi's Level Iv plates shitting the bed, and American Blast.

>>65637513

If it's anything like the 4SUS4 we had a few days of Youtube posts and a single vid before it got pulled. Plus Tianjing and its ilk usually don't see the Western internet so it might stay up. Who knows.

>>65638105
4SUS4 was a different beast. Very well known, otherwise reputable armor manufacturer suddenly does a face-heel turn and does some shady bullshit. Falsely advertises a brand new model as both the 0101.04 compliant 4SAS4 from 2008 and as an 0101.06 plate too. Vendor Chase Tactical ruins their otherwise good reputation. Tacticalshit (RACHEL) sells over 9,000 plates. Got the collective attention of the entire armor autism scene.
Compare versus RMA ESRT where there was a convenient excuse - "oh this BZ API wasn't the kind of BZ API we were testing!" - or the Hudi's plate where they just preemptively blocked Buffman.
>Tianjing and its ilk usually don't see the Western internet so it might stay up. Who knows.
This does remind me of Adept's secret SRT plate above the Emperor for some reason. 3.2lb, lo-pro, ICW IIIA, M995 rated. Got teased on /k/ by the Adept Shill some years back. If you look on Adept's website, you'll see they call the Emperor their most advanced... standalone... plate, thereby implying they have a nicer ICW model. Maybe this is part of the ticket and why that plate hasn't shown its face yet.

>>65638147

Wonder if the ICW only got teased because their Bulletfoam backer wasn't ready yet. Might be something credential-blocked? Doubt it but it's possible.

>>65638286
Like most manufacturers, Adept does have a secret "varsity" lineup of credential blocked plates. I talked with Adept about this some time ago. The Emperor for example has actually been out for several years, but was a Euro contract plate until recently. Now it's "demoted" to the not-credential-blocked JV team. For other examples, anything LIBA or Ceraflex with Integris is blocked. Hesco's SC3812 / SC3812B are blocked, the 4520 was infamously blocked. LTC's 28570 / 28595 are also infamously blocked. Their predecessor, the LTC 28590, is old enough it got moved down to the JV team a few years ago and briefly became civie accessible.
>Wonder if the ICW only got teased because their Bulletfoam backer wasn't ready yet.
My assumption is that it's meant to be an executive protection type plate. Thin, concealable, very light, focused on smaller caliber rifle threats. Making it ICW keeps it thinner while assuming the end user has soft armor anyway. Standalone, it'd be about 4lb flat and be a pretty decent replacement for the MH3 CQB. Certainly possible. Would be attractive for Ukrainian SSO service since Russia, for whatever reason, has significantly more tungsten 5.45x39 than they do larger calibers.
IMHO, to pull that it would need to use some exotic ceramic and that's probably why it's a secret model.

Also an FYI, RMA is doing funny shit with their advertised plate sizing... again:
1165:
>10″x12″ (9.5″X11.5″ Nominal Shooter’s Cut)
>Weight: 5.3 lbs for Shooter’s Cut, 6.1 lbs for SAPI Cut, 8.3 lbs for XL SAPI (+/- .125 tolerance)
1155:
>9.5″x11.5″ (Nominal 10×12 Shooter’s Cut)
1003 SRT:
>Medium Shooter’s Cut (Nominal 10″x12″)

So for the 1165, it's the 9.5x11.5 which is nominal, with a tolerance. For the 1155 and 1003, it's the 10x12 which is nominal and really 9.5x11.5 with those cut bottom corners. Ergo the 1165 is smaller than 9.5x11.5, likely to compensate for recently adding 0.1" of drop foam which it didn't initially have. Despite adding the foam, it went from 5.5lb to 5.3lb.

In any case, with these new plates, and Highcom's not-10x12s as well, you're down anywhere from 10-15% on coverage versus a true 10x12.

>>65638324

Fair enough. Surprising Adept doesn't do NIJ since they do all this Euro contract stuff, but then again NIJ is more concerned with consistency and exact supply chain than wartime Ukraine is.

>>65638350

At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if RMA started using Chinese Zylon as a backer. The only company that pulled more shenanigans was Shotstop.

>>65638359
>Surprising Adept doesn't do NIJ since they do all this Euro contract stuff, but then again NIJ is more concerned with consistency and exact supply chain than wartime Ukraine is.
Probably because they use some Chinese materials? I will note that the only test report shown on Adept's site for the Colossus is a single shot of M993, not the 4x Swiss P AP report from 12/24 - which only pertains to the sample tested very explicitly. If there is this UHMWPE switching going on, that would explain why they undersell the Colossus so much. The expectation is that the Colossus sold to you and I is just an M993 / Swiss P AP single strike plate. Plates that went to youtubers and the other labs use the primo materials. No NIJ cert, so there is no guarantee of consistency.
>than wartime Ukraine is.
Ukraine shitlisted Longfri, I think they're pretty tight. Worth noting that the most coveted plates there are late revision ESAPIs. I think a lot of commercial plates face the crucible of actual warfare and proceed to shit the bed. Those Battle Steel ceramics are light on drop pro. Stands to reason the 1165 wouldn't be well liked too. Only outlier is Hyperion.
>At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if RMA started using Chinese Zylon as a backer
Nah, they expressly do not use Chinese materials anymore and haven't since about 2014. All American-Italian. If they wanna cheat on weight more they'll just make the plates 9x11s like some new Highcoms. Only a 20% loss in coverage, no big deal, right?
Side bar. If the 10x12, 4.6lb, Adept Emperor was sized like the new 1165 at ~9.375x11.375, it would weigh 4.1lb - same as the new Highcom 4S21M. That's convenient. I think the new Highcom is gonna be on the smaller side for sure.

>>65638394

Talking point here: I've seen evidence that Ukraine shitlisted a lot of plates that turned out to be basic PE IIIs which understandably shit the bed against 7N6M and similar steel penetrator rounds. Seems they were desperate early-war and accepted a lot of IIIs sight unseen, not realizing that 0101.06 only required 6x M80 ball, not any steel penetrator resistance. Wasn't even in the NIJ spec, but I'm guessing Ukraine followed GOST standards and nobody quite realized the difference between that and NIJ. For instance there was a particular Turkish-donated III PE that got horrid feedback because 7N6M penetrated it when the troops and brass expected it to be proof against everything UP TO M80 ball and EVERYTHING smaller bore no matter the exact bullet/core, because nobody in Ukraine realized NIJ spec didn't account for smaller-caliber steel penetrators or smaller/faster bullets in general.

>>65638602
7N6M is hardened steel, so yeah, it'll clean house with most PE plates. It's a repeat of the Miles Dragic situation in Serbia from the 00s. People buy PE plates that stop 20-30 hits of lead core no sweat, get mopped by SS109.
Crossing standards is always risky. GOST and DSTU are meant for over there. NIJ is meant for over here. Maybe they should have went with VPAM.

Just an FYI, shotgun scabbards make for excellent breaching tool holders if you need to combo irons. Can attach by MOLLE to the back of a PC so a buddy can retrieve. Shoulder strap is a bit sketch and the hardware doesn't seem resilient.
https://www.amazon.com/Kylebooker-Tactical-Shotgun-Scabbard-Holster/dp/B098SRRF91
Can fit a Stanley Fubar fatmaxx and an ax in this one with room for a third long tool (break and rake?) if needed.

>>65638618

The early Ukraine war panic caused a lot of confusion due to the widely varying standards involved with all the stuff flowing into the nation from all over the world. Basic 0101.06 PE IIIs versus 7N6M was one of the bigger ones, as was a lot of digital NV getting donated. Once people realized digitals use active IR that was visible across the battlefield the Ukrainians stopped accepting that shit almost immediately, although the Russians to this day still employ them in statistically significant numbers because lmao ignorant mobiks buying what they can afford from Wildberries and it's all Chinese digitals. Like a fucking searchlight at night to all the drones, and a small part of why mobik lifespans are still measured in hours at the front.

>>65638840
Lol. This came up in one of the Salad Snack (me) vs Neetmaster 200 post debates. UARM advertised their PE plates for mild steel core 7N6. Dudes shot their plates with "7N6" - surprise it's 7N6M - penetrated.
>Once people realized digitals use active IR that was visible across the battlefield the Ukrainians stopped accepting that shit almost immediately, although the Russians to this day still employ them in statistically significant numbers because lmao ignorant mobiks buying what they can afford from Wildberries and it's all Chinese digitals.
NVG-30s are cheap man and they probably get a good discount.
>Like a fucking searchlight at night to all the drones, and a small part of why mobik lifespans are still measured in hours at the front.
I wonder how many 12 month payment plans on steel plates are going into default over this. On the other hand, Jinwudun is now one of the top Russian armor manufacturers, and both sides now have a variety of IIIA skirts.

Avon N49 for $900. Used but looks good and clean. Good buy or no?

>>65639182
It's a $1,400+ helmet from other sources. Apparently the BFD sucks, so that's worth keeping in mind.

>went to buy something from botach and had to agree to terms and conditions on a terms and conditions page that 404's.
oh yeah baby this is legit shit

>>65639469

They're like 3 guys in a warehouse in Las Vegas. They sell police trade katanas for $100, obviously they have no IT guy to fix their fucked up website. Try emailing them if it's a problem.

>>65639479
i put my debit card in raw

>>65639487

I always use a credit card so it's easier to cancel if it gets hacked. Got some VISM Discreets from them a few weeks ago. They're pretty good for extreme bargain basement $20 plate carriers.

>>65637115
Yes, it ruins any attempt to discuss gear that people actually use.

>>65639489
That's the way to go.
>>65639503
lol

Well shit, looks like we can expect some used RH25V2s on the market soon. Nocpix released a 4-in-1 1280x960 60hz sensor thermal.
$6,500, or equal to 26 NVG-30s.
https://darknightoutdoors.com/nocpix-micro2-ultra-1280/

anyone rocking pla/norinco gear

>>65639526
Taobao anon has some PLA-diverted Edun plates I think?

>>65639526
I’d like to get some type 07 camo gear if anyone knows of a good source.

>>65639552
calling ping ping and the seven little seven year old workers now. Their company phone number is
090-4444-4444

>>65639522
yea it's been out for a bit we all know this if you fags didn't have 2 people talking back and forth about armor you'd have known this week's ago.

>>65639182
>Avon N49 for $900
1.39 lb is crazy light I wonder what BFD/sacrifices they are making for that. Wouldn't trust it myself desu.

>>65639580
no free lunch cuh
>2 people
nerfanon forgotten

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What police trade in will we see next?

>>65639603
police trade samurai armor, like:
https://www.nfstrike.com/product/bacraft-samurai-tactical-armor/

police trade bearcat
police trade flamethrower
police trade nuclear bomb

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Is an ACH outclassed by other ballistic helmets for running NODS? My thing is like I don’t wanna spend $1,000 on a helmet, but obviously don’t want a bump.
Also if Tarkov has taught me anything, anything is better than no helmet, but super expensive helmets aren’t that much better when your thighs are exposed.

>>65639640
$75 Ceradyne BA3A cuh
https://surplus.botach.com/3m-ceradyne-ba3a-ballistic-helmet-pasgt-cut-nij-level-iiia-police-trade/
You can buy a boltless rail kit to enable NOD usage.

>>65639646
I think I may actually just buy it tomorrow. Thanks anon. What about those nod mounts? Are they any good?

>>65639693
The boltless kits are going up in price. Used to be $65-70, now $90.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174546759463?

I bought a breaching tool. How should I evaluate it?

>>65639503
You weren’t going to discuss or contribute in any meaningful way anyways. God has punished you. I don’t know why he would do that. BTW have you heard the latest news about hesco?

>>65640086
saaar you must discuss gear people actually use you are not allowed to discuss armor saar you are not allowed to discuss night vision saar or breaching tools

saaar no talk armor if anyone talk armor, needfully say black friday deal rma 1165 $10 off code EARLYBLACKFRIDAY that's it.

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What is the current lvl 4 plate meta in '26?

5 years or so ago it was the hesco 4401 if i remember, but didn't those go to shit quality wise?

>>65640468
Imo esapi with balcs panels

>>65640468
Gilliam 1635 is extremely attractive for $400 a pair new at 6.35lb per a 10x12. BFD is a bit high.
If you demand an NIJ certified solution then Hesco 4403. Highcom 4S17M is undersized as a 10x12 and is stupidly heavy (8.6lb) as a SAPI M. RMA 1155 G2 is just an uncertified corner-cut counterpart to the 4403.
>but didn't those go to shit quality wise?
The 4401s are fine. The problem Hescos are 4400, 4600 (this one replace ASAP), 3410, 3610, 3K10, and 4K10. 4K10 was eventually reinstated as well as 4400. Others are dodgy. 4600s they could NOT get to pass FIT again so that's just a model you gotta write off and should have replaced with 4601s when Hesco was doing recalls.

If you can get a pair policesurp, the 7.5lb Protech 2230 completely hard-mogs the 4403 no contest. Massive safety margin above Level IV spec. Beats M2AP at over 3,510ft/s versus NIJ 2,910ft/s req, and the 4403 poops the bed around 2,950.
>>65640469
Assuming you can find a good pair that isn't either roached or price gouged.

If you have a very high budget, the 4800 is still the dominant boron carbide IV. Adept Emperor is lighter but relatively unproven and I think the new 4.1lb 4S21M from Highcom is gonna be way undersized. Where these three will shidd is against tungsten core. Versus five years ago there's a lot more "IV+" options than there were then, too.

>>65640489
Ty anon

>>65639603
>>65639609

Police trade Gundam. Somehow.

>>65640564
If it's a Mk. II they better be taking lowballs

>>65640513
No problem. When looking at IVs, always evaluate if you actually need Level IV protection. You can go lower or higher based on current or emerging threats.

>>65640572

Bad news, since it's police trade it's a surplus Titans GM Quel with a Gundam head. Not even Hazel compatible.

>>65640661
Better than a Xamel in the canyon map in MSG Crossfire. Fat fuck can't dodge pink beams. Still gets slimed tf out by a GM Sniper.
Reminds me of the unreleased RMA 1189 GEN2. Stops nine M2AP, some limited M993 capability, 9.5lb. There's a reason they both remained prototypes.

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>>65638324
Following up on this, per pic related, even RMA has a secret reserve catalog! It goes without saying RMA is shitlisted, but it would be premature to shitlist their back catalog based on the current "civilian" lineup being a bunch of undersized, underbuilt, uncertified, and unproven meme plates. As their guy describes, there is a difference in philosophy between the 9.5lb "beast" 1189 GEN2 and what consumers actually want - the bare minimum with no extra layers. Could be worth looking into, but if it's for custom work or exotic requirements, I would try Gilliam first.

>>65640620

Honestly most people could get away with RF2, RF1, or even basic non-MSC IIIs like the pastas and LON-III-Ps. Hell, depending on your area's threat profile even IIIA+/HG2 like unbacked GARMS 1 is an option if weight/thickness are a concern. RF3/IV is nice to have but at the end of the day if you're out and about it's what you're wearing/have access to when the supersonic crack of a bullet hits your ears. If you've got RF1 or pasta IIIs in your car trunk when it goes down and your good IVs are at home because they're too heavy/possibly fragile/whatever, you run with what you have.

Like the guys who have a safe full of custom 1911s but can't hide them in summer clothes so all they've got is a .38 snub when the mugger steps out of the alleyway on a hot July night.

>>65640780
Also it's worth keeping in mind RF3 is a single hit requirement, up to a max of three, while RF1 / RF2 are three hit with the option of six. III is six, IV is one up to six.
Opting for more hits cuts down on required number of samples for NIJ cert, but you don't get a special marking on the CPL so nobody knows absent mfg documentation.

Point is, RF3s can actually offer less protection than RF2s versus multi-hit non-AP. A lot comes down to shot spacing and placement.

>>65640806
True, but most RF3 plates will offer excellent multi-hit protection from RF1/RF2 threats. RF3 1-6 shots for the initial type cert but almost everyone does 1-shot for lowest test risk and then advertise multi-hit. Higher caliber threats really increase the throughput cracking across ceramics, especially monolithic and that initial damage from .30 M2 AP versus something lighter reduces the working capacity of the armor.

>>65640943
>True, but most RF3 plates will offer excellent multi-hit protection from RF1/RF2 threats
Uh.... no. Most of the el cheapo models like RMA 1155 (GEN1), Protech 2014G / 2014MC etc, along with some others like the 26605 are single strike outside wide spacing. Hesco 4403 / 4800 only do three M80, not III's six. Better, but not meeting Level III spec. Hesco 4601 and 4K10 meet both III and IV.
See RMA 1155: https://imgur.com/a/iqmXFQo

If the plates are tile array and/or strongly crack arrested and have a beefy backer, that's great, but many IV monolithics - either low budget or featherweight - are often not reliable multi-hit. Otherwise they would advertise dual III/IV rating.
>RF3 1-6 shots for the initial type cert but almost everyone does 1-shot for lowest test risk
RMA 1189 IIRC did six, but that's a heavily cheat ringed tile array and would have been 10.4lb if it offered 10x12 coverage instead of only 8x10 on a 10x12 plate.
>Higher caliber threats really increase the throughput cracking across ceramics, especially monolithic
True, but six M80 at 51mm spacing in the 6x8" fair hit box (two inches from edge) is something a lot of IVs / RF3s cannot do.
>and that initial damage from .30 M2 AP versus something lighter reduces the working capacity of the armor.
Interestingly, RMA's XRT had higher BFD from M80 than it did B-32 API. M80 tends to put more load on the backer despite greatly inferior penetrative ability.

>>65640963
"only do" 3 M80? Isn't that enough? Besides, especially in .07, almost everyone will "do" 1-shot RF3 or 3-shot RF2 and advertise anything else. 6-shot M80 on any plate is a crap shoot over time, especially with a monolithic. If labs really planned follow on hits 2" away from one another inside the gray box, there would be a lot more failed tests. In reality, they hardly ever shoot that close together on any test unless requested. Because you do stop 6-shots of M80 once on a test, doesn't mean you can count on it every time. That's why almost all manufacturers will do the 1-shot RF3 and 3-shot RF2s. You can get away with 6-shots of RF1 just because of the multi-hit of pure PE plates. Even then, you will mostly see .07 3-shot certifications. Your image shows what appears to be an RMA plate with a monolithic Cerco strike face that is completely lacking a crack arresting layer. Not good for any design. Agree on the M80 although wouldn't use the term "greatly." BFD is the main design issue there. Modern edge to edge RF3 arrays can drop in 7.4 - 8 pounds depending on the true, measured sizes and amount of PE.

>>65641061
>"only do" 3 M80? Isn't that enough?
Not by the DEA's definition, for one, or the NIJ's justification back in 1971. Other standards disagree, but I think the point is more that you shouldn't settle for preparing for the average. There are niche cases (Mike Day) where high multi hit, tight spacing requirements are warranted.
>Besides, especially in .07, almost everyone will "do" 1-shot RF3 or 3-shot RF2 and advertise anything else
Which will bite them in the ass eventually if advertisements don't line up with the product. Multi hit is defined by the manufacturer, so if RMA says a plate will do six M2AP, I see no reason why NIJ won't have that run in a FIT.
>6-shot M80 on any plate is a crap shoot over time, especially with a monolithic.
Every certified ceramic III on the 0101.06 CPL says otherwise chief. 3810, 3811, 3612, Highcom counterparts, LTC counterparts, etc. Not that hard if the plate is designed correctly and doesn't thin the backer to high hell. RMA XRT's glass backer sucked.
>If labs really planned follow on hits 2" away from one another inside the gray box, there would be a lot more failed tests.
Per the NIJ, only about 30% of submitted products actually obtain NIJ certification, so a lot more armor falls short of standards than passes.
>In reality, they hardly ever shoot that close together
51mm is however still a fair hit, and they are liable to do that.
>Your image shows what appears to be an RMA plate with a monolithic Cerco strike face that is completely lacking a crack arresting layer.
The old 1155 sucked as a plate and it's troubling for an 8.3lb solution to be that deficient. They DID however advertise it as multi hit Level IV.
>Modern edge to edge RF3 arrays can drop in 7.4 - 8 pounds
You can do significantly less than that if you run B4C. See 4.8lb Hesco 4801. If you're referencing the Alumina+PE Gilliam 1023, for example, worth noting that wasn't true 10x12 in some of the reports.
As for that RMA 1189, fiberglass backer.

Also, as a side bar, always worth noting that if shots either land closer than 2" to the edge or 2" from a preceding hit, under NIJ rules, the armor is not required to stop that round.
One benefit of PE plates and metal-PE hybrid is that they care less about shot spacing than a ceramic. However, those hit a rating ceiling fast and are weight inefficient at the higher levels. As seen with the steel-PE AMI TAC3S, only makes sense if even A1 isn't an issue. Thick backer ceramics with adequate drop protection are IMHO still the way to go at RF2 / RF3 and especially above RF3.
All-PE RF2 is promising, but nobody knows how those handle conditioned since they're all absent from either .06 or .07 CPLs.

SRS Surplus has two sets of vintage full torso-esque plates for sale, $300 a set.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/168840869995
https://www.ebay.com/itm/168840865785
Seller estimates at Level III but dimensions / weight will reveal more.

>>65641103
Very true for older plates that used PE backing that could tangle up M80 on their own. That's how you build a 6-shot composite Level III plate. Almost not marketable today due to weight but maybe people will smarten up. Some companies still have good designs. The Gilliam Arms 6001 uses a backer and I think they advertise this capability against everything RF1 and there's a thin ceramic for the M855 I believe.

>>65641226
>Very true for older plates that used PE backing that could tangle up M80 on their own
Not always PE. There's something to also be said for strong crack arresting or tile array designs. All certified Level III plates from 1971 to present are six hit M80. A lot of them aren't even going to have PE backers. The Protech 2120 series for one is fiberglass backed. The Protech 2230 is III+IV and aramid backed. Most of LTC's ICW IIIA III+IV plates are aramid backer as well. Second Chance AP-III, aramid too.
It's just the ceramic and backer able to work together as a unit with some crack arresting component sufficient enough to handle M80 six times. Redundant backers are neat but not required.
>Almost not marketable today due to weight but maybe people will smarten up.
Hesco 3811 is NIJ 0101.06 certified as a III and is only 3.4lb on a 10x12. More than marketable. Granted, it's apparently only 3lb at RF2 spec.
>The Gilliam Arms 6001 uses a backer and I think they advertise this capability against everything RF1 and there's a thin ceramic for the M855 I believe.
Website says M193 and M80 for the backer by itself. I don't see 7.62x39 MSC listed. That's the title match for all-PE plates at the RF1 level.

>>65641103

Interesting, 30% failure rate? Maybe that explains all the no-cert wonder armor companies out there, some of them probably tried but failed. We know the Dragonskin guys definitely did.

>>65641226

This gives a lot more gas to the idea of slapping a strike face of some kind onto a pasta plate or similar basic 0101.06 PE III. Pastas eat M80 for breakfast standalone even in shitty degraded 30+ year old condition, add something to deal with MSC/M855 and you've got an RF1 at least, RF2 lite at best. Extremely niche, but it's a start if you have a small stockpile of PE like some of us do.

>>65642126

Correction, 30% pass rate, sorry. 70% failure rate.

>>65640022
By breaching

In your opinion, what is the all around best helmet and mount for nods? It can be ballistic or non ballistic.

>>65640489
what's the best plate for m855 multi hit protection with a balance of weight and cost and isn't made in some randos garage like Gilliam?

>>65643198
I see ass sore RMA has entered the building

>>65640022
work your way up in difficulty until you get stopped
handicap stall, closet door, rv, mobile home, manufactured home, modern built McMansion, 70s ranch, 30s farm house, church, school, government offices, NG armory, army weapons depot, bank vault

>>65643212
nah, I have heavy ass highcoms, pre 4sus
gilliam shilling here feels inorganic to me in the same way RMA does so I don't trust them

why do sirk IIs cost more on ebay then I bought a 2 pack for precovid?
did army get better at packing them so they don't fall off the back of trucks?
I need bunk bed guy to send me some TQs

>>65643216

>low weight
>low cost
>not made by garage randos
>multi hit M855

Botach Battle Steel III+.

>>65643198
Hesco 3611Cs, policesurp, easy answer. If you can't do used then 3612s, 3810s, 3811s depending on budget. 3811 is the tip top M855-rated III which isn't some primo B4C model.
>>65643216
It's true Gilliam is becoming the meme "house brand" here like how RMA is the house brand on reddit. Only difference is that we can and do turn on Gilliam if there's something questionable. Example, 1023's sizing, 1635 being high on BFD and having potential headroom issues being it's only 6.35lb for an Alumina-PE, 9969 being potentially underbuilt, them having like nothing in stock while they retool for the new lineup, etc.

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>>65643351
they were also shilling themselves last thread

>>65643350
but, da joos

>>65643372
You have my permission to criticize their products.
>>65643350
Something not on a shitlist maybe? The LON-III-P is passable but not dice versus M855 at full spec. Rest? Nah.

>>65643372
bruh Gilliam stop shilli'n the truth homes. Don't post here no more. these mfs don't care. We need you we email you.

>>65643372
>>65643549
To be fair it's like when Blake Waldrop, the head honcho at RMA, went on arfcom to shill the 1189 and 1155 then people called his azz out on the 1189 having a cheat ring and being a 8x10 plate wrapped in foam so it pretends to be 10x12.
The difference is that Gilliam ain't suing people here for saying the TRVTH. I think? I hope not.
>>65642126
This is quickly becoming Brotach Cuhplus: the general.

>>65643017
team wendy ballistic + Wilcox G24 mount

>>65643198
the hescos other anon recommended or the LTC equivalent. don't listen to poor retards on here.

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>>65639603
Makes you wonder where that came from.

>>65643650
LTC 23707 is actually kinda lame and inferior to the 3810 / 3811. This part of the market is the 3810's home turf and is straight Hesco, just like SRTs.

>>65639479
>>65643656
>Donuts broken, the 10-4 goes unspoken
>I've even forgotten my notepad
>I don't know the address or what is the probable cause
>I'm standin' here holding my blade
>A desolate suspect without any prints
>It's only the internal affairs I feel
>It's admin that I spite as I sit down and eat
>7-11
>The only thing I know for real

>>65643350
These are straight ass cuh. 4.2lb for a 9.5x11.5 or 4.5lb for a 10x12. Not great test reports.
Hesco mogs here and don't let no reddit payroll mofo tell you to finna some Highcum RSTP or RMA ESRT.

>>65641201
Update on these, they're 12lb / 0.875", they're 13x13.5".
This seems to be an M2AP rated, chicken plate esque model. Condition isn't great, but use that as an opportunity to lowball.

guys is it queer or gear if i put a kitsune mask on the side of my helmet

>>65643988
Gives me a target. Maybe I’ll hit that after the shot. You won’t see it coming. Go birds.

>>65643992
sir your plates are made in garage. they did not redeem nij certification. they are not needfully making standards. They are not ISO certified sir.
In streets there are very dangerous threats sir. Sir you must not redeem garage plates. purchase plates tested certified compliant in accordance with national institute of the justice certified compliant standards sir, 01010101.06292 standard is like your ip address sir.
Sir do not buy those plates or they will downvote you. Much shame and loss of izzat will come to those with garage armor.
>>65643988
Sir you are not japanese. I do not approve.

>>65644005
Do not bend over saar there are many backshots saar do not redeem do not do the needful or prepone task until of the done
>other news
I need cheap source of surplus jackets. I’m thinking ucp.

>>65644014
saar buy rma 1165 for sale price EARLYBACKSHOTFRIDAY

Is there such a thing that can turn any pouch into a tear away?
I'm picturing a loop half with molle on one side with a hook half with similar molle setup. Instead of interfacing the pouch onto the molle you attach it with the velcro placard.

>>65644098
Why? I mean you could just thread the loop once instead of weaving it. Pop grommets and pull up with a tug. I can’t stand Velcro.

>>65637115
>>65639503
I have real vintage gear shipping now icw more real vintage gear that will not get discussed due to lack of interest in real vintage gear. Armor tards as you were. Shame too, it's really cool shit!

>>65644153
saar there is real vintage gear here >>65641201 but it is not discuss! why!

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Post gear, queers (sof esapi anon commands it)

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>>65644200

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>>65644205
With the assistance of super implessive jinwudun soon I shall be fully 3a and impervious to all harm

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>>65644209

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>>65644236
XL plates XL balcs XL groin panel XL thigh and shoulder armor and it's all still too small for callsign girthquake

>>65644236
Where’s the cape and shield? I need a cheap bdu for a new ghillie. I could be convinced to make a guide. Go birds

>>65644243
Be quiet guidecuh and post gear, I miss when this place had people, besides a2 PBUH, posting their stuff

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>>65644252

>>65644209
saar do not redeem skirt

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>>65644240
are you 400 lbs?

>>65644252
>in the era of ai, wants to get everybody doxxed
lol

>>65644325
6'3 260 35 second 40 yard

>>65644240
if A2 had this shit he'd still be alive

>>65644330
>Mon
Probably yeah, but he spent all his money on a scar

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>>65644327
You aren’t important enough cuh
>>65644240
Your armor won’t save you from the carbon monoxide cuh

>>65644337
I was tired of setting it off with all my methane hardtack, black coffee & bean braps

>>65644252
>post gear
I will not! You are in punishments!
>>65644283
>zebra with cheetah before Easter
HOLY FUCKING FASHION FELONY, BATMAN! WHO TF ARE YOU GHETTO RATS!?

>>65644330
I kinda miss that little turd burglar.

>>65644335
fearless X from Jinwudun is $1,060.
https://jinwudun.com/products/level-nij-iv-fearless-x-full-protection-tactical-body-armor-vest
He couldn't swing that bro?
>>65644337
everyone is important enough cuh. The cuhs here are the only cuhs wit ball knowledge to save the unwashed masses from rma plates cuh
>>65644349
He was literally the only thing keeping /gq/ from becoming /bag/.

>>65644340
NFPA violations, where is lung armor
>>65644343
You wish you had this form of rizz

>>65643411
>He did not use my permission to criticize Gilliam Arms armor.
Alright, someone here please explain why we should NOT all roll gilliam plates.

i am contemplating taking a shit

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So if I can’t afford duals, should I get myself 2x PVS-14, or a some PVS-7’s?

>>65644633

Where are you gonna find PVS-7s? It's easier to find new PVS-14s than an old 7 with intact working tubes.

>>65644633
Do you have $1500 or $4000? Cuz that's what a decent 7 vs a 14 and bridge is going to cost.

>>65644701
Tacswap has pretty decent sets for cheap. If it's still up there an OMNI 6 for 1350.

>>65644712
Meant to say a pair of 14s and a bridge.

I personally like my 7 a lot and it's very comfy for driving a dirt biking once you get used to the cyclops vision. Weirdly enough I have pseudo depth perception through it now which is pretty neat.

>>65644098
Not specifically for that, but there are molle med bag inserts that are essentially what you're suggesting; like the issued M9 bag came with a big one. They tend to be pretty big though, you could cut one down if you were desperate.

>>65644633
PVS-7 just looks cooler

>>65644712
>>65644713
>>65644717
A set of 14’s for 1,300? That almost sounds unbelievable. What do I need to look for and what is “OMNI 6”?
>I personally like my 7
I know the 7’s use one tube, and you don’t really have depth perception. I assume you just have to get used to it. What’s the price difference typically? My friend and other people have told me to just get duals, but I’m not gonna lie. I don’t have the money nor do I want to spend the money on a set of duals.
>they look cooler
True. They do, but I also want to know if 2x 14’s are really worth it.

>>65644722
Contract it was done on and an indicator on specs range. You will have to hunt for it, but there used to be a chart with different Omni specs.
>7
14 will do plenty fine. You’ll get more mileage out of a 14 and there are more options/upgrades available to you.
>what should look I for
That it works, turns on, doesn’t flicker, no huge artifacts, no burn in, no major blems. There are probably more to check for that I am not remembering but I just got myself a mcgriddle with cheese, egg, sausage, and hot buffalo sauce to cope over Eagles loss. Go birds

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>>65643988
queer
half face oni mask is the only correct answer

>>65644476
I'm not an armor autists but from what I picked up, Gilliam never had a plate certified by NIJ, only plates tested to NIJ standards, which to me says they cannot maintain a QA standard that would be required for batch testing
this is reinforced by seeing armor autists post spec changes real time, as tests come back at different ratings and different plate weights than what was previously stated by Gilliam

the argument will be that NIJ cert is expensive, but that's RMA level cope
NIJ cert opens up markets and increases plate value so much that its costing you money to not have it

>>65645041
My take on Gilliam is that there’s a lot more transparency and less size fuckery going on with him compared to other players. You aren’t wrong regarding certification. It’s a good entry point for those who want at least something that is probably fine without spending a lot of money. “Probably fine” isn’t the best standard to go by, but the rationale being it is at least better than nothing. Volume could also be a consideration for batch testing as well.
>plate value
Lmao. There’s no value. Just autism and thousands of dollars being spent on degradable plastic and ceramics. It won’t appreciate. If it did, Botach would be a high dollar game.

>>65645041
A good argument. Issue is that armor is reputationally based. Gilliam delivers better options than RMA. Both companies are no-cert right now. Gilliam has better reports, showing drops more often especially on critical plates like the 1635, and doesn't play games on sizing as much. Ergo, better than RMA, competes effectively with Highcom, and whether you want NIJ cert or not is the wedge between Gilliam and Hesco's technologically inferior but actually certified base models - 4403 for one.
>NIJ cert opens up markets and increases plate value so much that its costing you money to not have it
Well the argument is that regular dudes don't really care about NIJ cert. NIJ enables market penetration into the LE segment where Gilliam will have to fight an uphill battle against heavyweights like Point Blank, Safariland / Protech, and Hesco. He doesn't have SiC-PE mono or B4C-mono plates now, so he will be uncompetitive at the mid range Hesco 4601 / Protech 2230/2240 and high end, uncertified but fed contract Hesco 4800 levels. The 1635 almost gets close to the 4601 on paper, but it's high on BFD (around 40mm conditioned v. M2AP per reports) and doesn't meet Level III requirements as a dual III+IV like the 4601 or 2230/2230-1/2240. To your point, spec changes cast major doubt on models like the 9969, which arrived at B4C weight while only using SiC-TiB2. Allegedly just by removing the crack arrestor which was half a pound by itself, which then really makes me question multi hit capability given the 9969's brother, the GEN-1 Adept Archon, was both heavier, nominally sized, and had "eh" multi hit already in Buffman's testing.

>>65645113
>It’s a good entry point for those who want at least something that is probably fine without spending a lot of money. “Probably fine” isn’t the best standard to go by, but the rationale being it is at least better than nothing.
That's also the argument in favor of RMA or buying el cheapo discounto's like the 4SAS4. It's all about risk tolerance. Some people tolerate close to no risk and demand NIJ cert. Others are more lax and can tolerate not-certified plates. You cannot even entertain the former without getting NIJ cert, and the ones that are more lax still need some indicia of reliability unless they're truly dumb of ass and do no research. Youtube tests (Gilliam is light here), Lab reports (good but newbs don't know how to read or "attack" them so they get lost in the sauce), and brand reputation. Gilliam is small time and doesn't have a rep like Highcom does. That goes both ways. Thousands of people trusted Highcom's reputation and bought shitty 4SAS4s. Tacticalshit sold over 8,000 by themselves in a few months. That was one of many dealers. If Gilliam put out his own 4SAS4... he'd sell like twenty. He only ever sold eight 9969s, after all.

>>65645018
but this is gear queer not gear straights

>>65645275
yes and the oni mask will be valuable gear as it prevents him from getting distracted during battle by trying to suck dicks

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>>65644722
Thanks anon. I hope you enjoyed your McDonald’s.

>>65644984
This was for you >>65645417

>>65645421
Much obliged. That sandwhich disgusts even the workers. It is an unholy fusion of industrial pancake, processed cheese, factory-range sausage, egg, and hot sauce. It is delicious and you should try it.

>>65645362
a2 noooo

>>65645518
too soon?

>>65645553
if he had a jinny wu dunny skirt he would have been fine ;(((

>>65645650
well, if the guy he was sucking off had the skirt it would have at least provided some protection

>>65645656
I have a skirt and a2 sure wasn't sucking me off. I'm kinda glad he didn't tbqh.
Also those MSA III+ plates from last thread sold. Trash sniper missed out AGAIN.

Alright, let's talk shop on breaching tools. Combo >>65637078 with a 30" Pro-bar Halligan. What am I missing besides a break n' rake and boltcutters?
My boltcutters (48" no brand) also suck dick. Someone rec me a pair.
>inb4 you'll never use this shit
Nobody here is ever gonna need to use their plates either, and that's good. I hope nobody has to.

Who wants a stinger spike strip for $200?
https://surplus.botach.com/stinger-spike-systems-15-5-police-trade/

>>65645868
id rather talk about tools than fucking body armor these faggots annoy the fuck out of me they're also poor and probably dont even own any actual tools

>>65646075
then let's talk about tools cunt muffin

>>65644200
show us ur tool

Night vision time. Some dudes made a LAM comparison tool.
https://www.landownsystems.com

>>65646075
i bought some blackhawk/dynamic entry tools - small pry, collapsible sledge, and collapsible breacher. Also have a full size boltmaster bolt cutters.
They work well.
I just need a good way to carry one or maybe two at a time on my CPC carrier..

>>65646247
I was looking at the blackhawks. They say the non-sparking alloy is no dice versus steel doors. Is that just CYA language or do they legitimately shit the bed if you try to breach commercial?
>I just need a good way to carry one or maybe two at a time on my CPC carrier..
Shotgun scabbard or some of the long tool pouches off aliexpress. A 32" scabbard is actually pretty tits.

>>65646075
>they're also poor
Fuck's your problem with the poor

>>65646253
its bullshit. they work fine.

>>65646269
thanks. Is it true for halligans it's pro bar or no bar?

>>65646271
i like the collapsible halligan. a fullsize is quite a bit to carry, but it is bombproof

>>65646253
>long tool pouches off aliexpress
What in the fuck happened to /gq/? You used to need like 5k in kit minimum and now it's competing with the airsoft threads on /toy/

>>65646277
A collapsing halligan just seems sketch. Have you driven one with a sledge, does it hold?
>>65646280
>Five years ago, gear queers went thirty thousand dollars into debt in the blink of an eye, and the credit cards just fuckin' defaulted. Tomorrow, there will be no shortage of poverty, no shortage of people buying within their means.

>I know you understand.
But no seriously it was a bunch of guys who went asshole into debt during covid, reddit had the same issue.

Nerfanon alone is responsible for the /pfg/ rebellion and the exile of the debtmaxxers who spent $5,000 on LTC 28590s from Apex and Hoplite and didn't even get Level IV.

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Decided our favorite B-grade Chinese armor company deserved their own infographic. A couple of new things since we last touched on Jinwudun:
1. They have some new "police" high coverage vests, with soft armor and accessory armor included. These look rather appealing for "high threat" situations given Gilliam should hopefully pull through on the M993-rated 8002L and 7N37-rated 8002H "heavy" sometime soon. Commercially available plate strength will reach an all time high with that 8002H.
2. They now have boron carbide plates, but they keep them in the back and you have to ask for them. Will reach out and see if they're willing to talk shop. China doesn't normally do B4C well so this might be a crapshoot. Always worth noting boron carbide plates suck ass versus tungsten threats...
3. Couple new visors.
4. A "welfare" low-cost helmet with a rail included.
5. Level III helmet is still there.
6. Ballistic baseball cap!
JWD is still extensively covered in other infographics, so I'm not doing a third pass on the shields and what not.

>>65646308

Nah, when /pfg/ went defunct we all migrated to /gq/ and things rolled from there. I'm just the last active survivor of the /pfg/ exodus.

>>65646493

>"welfare" helmet
>9x19mm at 1200fps only

Sounds like a late-gen SEPT2. I remember rolling those for $20 a stripped shell from SG during the massive pasta blowout extravaganza. For a brand new helmet at that price it really isn't worth even a first look.

>>65646555
>CHECK EM
>Nah, when /pfg/ went defunct we all migrated to /gq/ and things rolled from there. I'm just the last active survivor of the /pfg/ exodus.
And it was that exodus which resulted in the exodus of the high dollar gucci crowd to... discord. They'll be back here sooner or later. Side bar on that. There are underground discord, etc circles where plates like SAECs and 96034s are regularly dealt. Curious if they're onto SOCOM's latest "deluxe" plates by now. That 4.2lb M993 standalone from 2017 would be perfect. Who knows what kind of baller ass plates went on the Maduro raid. Frankly wouldn't be surprised if they had a sub-5.5lb 7N37 plate using extremely advanced boutique materials.
>Sounds like a late-gen SEPT2. I remember rolling those for $20 a stripped shell from SG during the massive pasta blowout extravaganza. For a brand new helmet at that price it really isn't worth even a first look.
Gets absolutely mogged by $75 BA3A and $60 United Shield IIIA helms from Botach Surplus. Those brands' reputations stand far beyond Jinwudun except maybe in Russia. Actually no not even Russia, even they know Ceradyne plates were the bomb.

>>65646576

Maduro raid probably had some hardened industrial synthetic diamond-titanium alloy composite shit backed by some spoopy DARPA shit. Real Gundam hours stuff.

>>65646590
Maduro raid probably had PULV-esque low vis plates with polycrystalline diamond strike faces rated for M995 and weighed 2lb a pop.
The day will eventually come where PCD is commercially available and assumes the ultra high end bracket above boron carbide. Adept's prior use with it is interesting. Basically, thin PCD layer in front of the ceramic face. Acts as a "core breaker" and compromises the penetrator before it gets to the actual strike face. Could in theory be used with UHMWPE to enable stupidly light solutions.
Adept allegedly had an experimental 2.2lb RF2 and a sub-4lb RF3 / Level IV in the pipeline, back when they were diamond age and before the rebrand. That RF2 would be the real prize, since that's same weight as Gilliam's upcoming GEN2 Helion which is only RF1.

>>65646607

Sounds about right. DARPA tier spookplate stuff.

That said, I'm not entirely sure what happened to /pfg/. One day it was there, next it was gone and nobody ever baked again. If it'd survived the exodus wouldn't have happened. My best guess is the pasta clearance was the herald of a dry spell for surplus and budget stuff in general, and we lost the critical mass of posters to keep a general going just through boredom alone. At least that's my theory.

>>65646628
I think the Highcom 4SAS4 killed it. The last /pfg/ guide showed they took Apex's word it was just a relabeled 4SAS7. As soon as Buff's vid hit, they realized Highcom / Apex burned them all bad. And yeah, the pasta dried up. Two causes.

>>65646640

I do remember the 4SUS4 debacle. I was on the fence about those plates, felt something wasn't quite right despite the deal, and then Buffman's pre-vid posts dropped saying to avoid it. Holy shit brand new 0101.04 plates in this day and age. And then the reports of unpadded shipping boxes, mailman frisbee, and roached plates right out of the box failing torque. Highcum really shit the bed hard and expected everyone to eat it up like gold.

I think you're right, that and the end of cheap pasta was kind of the beginning of the end for /pfg/ and the old /bag/ as well, although the latter really went dark when Buffalo happened. Nothing like straight up terrorism and federal investigations to shut shit down.

which AliExpress seller has the best bootleg geiselle handguards and ds surefire tailcaps with SF plugs

>>65644349
he finally got banned or what?

>>65646844

Word is he died in Yemen from a drone strike while working for a Saudi-contracted PMC.

>>65646297
Topkek anon, I gotta save that one.
>But no seriously it was a bunch of guys who went asshole into debt during covid, reddit had the same issue.
Where'd they all go? Did they unironically have to dump their shit for peanuts to pay their astronomical credit card bills?

>>65646308
Old /gq/ sometimes had good info but needed a bullet. God forbid you criticize them for their $4500 level III3+!$ plates (each) or ask them why they were fighting to pay thousands on eBay for stolen aircraft signaling IR lasers.

>>65646689
Buffman is so based. Saved me from getting tricked into buying ShotStop plates before cheat rings were widely known.

I also still cry daily that A2grip wasn't driven off the internet because of Buffalo, I had high hopes.

>>65637124
every mystery meat pe is very likely chinesium with no spec sheet. this is rich.

>>65647281
Well yeah, only way to prove consistent, documented sourcing is via NIJ certification. Adept has skirted NIJ cert for anything for over a decade now.

>>65646880

Others here report he has an RMA bias, accepts overbuilt ringers from manufacturers, and is weak to C&Ds so his worst performing reviews never stay up (4SUS4, American Blast Ass, etc), but otherwise he's pretty level. If you don't see a specific plate review from him and it's one he probably should've done by now, chances are he got C&D'd over a very bad performer so avoid that one. Basically you can use him as a filter for bad plates, although an imperfect one.

>>65646297
>know you understand.
>But no seriously it was a bunch of guys who went asshole into debt during covid, reddit had the same issue.

serious what happened to everyone? now I gotta sit here and listen to poors talk about literal NERF night vision.mm disgusting. get these beggars out of here *chuckles*

>>65647700
>serious what happened to everyone?
picked up all my just in case gear during covid, still have it, nothing better has come out to replace it