it's eurocentrism but most aren't ready for this trvkie

>>43657657
It's about artificially inflating the numbers of the community

>>43657657
>pieces of media made by cishets that depict people who are materially trans women and utilize female honorifics and exhibit dysphoria and everything
Totally not trannies guys

>>43657657
gege never explicitly stated if kirara was trans or anything else. it's implied that her boyfriend is straight so she's very likely a trans woman, but you could argue it's essentially down to the reader's interpretation. so this meme is already pretty retarded by including her.
>>43657705
i think it depends on the character, felix isn't tran, the LNs fairly explicitly confirm it later on and so does the author. don't know about the other two.

>>43657725
It's just weirdos wanting to fetishize a group they have no connection to other than gooning. They don't understand the subcultures they talk about, let alone understand that the authors themselves don't know what they're talking about.

When you invent a tranny from first principles and call it something else, it's still a tranny. It's like the inverse of those anthropologists who insist on framing a lot of international "third genders" as totally distinct from the contemporary conception of trans people despite many of them literally just being "trannies but we abuse them into compliance in different ways."

Mixing the examples is pretty disingenuous, yeah.

>>43657657
notice how all sides are wrong, flattening individual characters with significant gendered differences into labels, c
thereby collapsing cultural complexities and nuances into categories

Bridget really hurt these guys, huh?

>>43657776
you are so fucking stupid and ignorant. fuck you white scum.

>>43657810
Have you interacted with the people involved in these subcultures and actually done an honest comparison of them to the western tranny, which itself has a variety of different subcultures and identities that are gathered under the same label of "tranny"?

>>43657680
>eurocentrism
there's a decent amount of trans characters in anime and manga, but they usually only get minor roles like seiko in lovely complex is trans but she's a side character. the femboy shit is mostly gooner slop for male jap (and more recently, western) audiences. the japs have just gooned to this idea for longer than westerners have, the femboy stuff started taking off in the west because right wingers want to goon to trans women while being vehemently anti-trans. and japs at who this was aimed in the first place are just weird perverts.
>>43657776
i don't think it's a tranny from first principles though, the invented character is designed as gooner bait first and foremost to appeal to a specific fetish and that fetish likely isn't actually trans women. i'd say that seiko and kirara are actually decent trans representation though. you know what's funny though, so like, lovely complex is actually written by a woman and it shows because if a man wrote it, he'd likely make seiko into another gooner bait femboy character instead, so i'm glad that's not the case

>>43657657
japan is a very socially conservative society, otokonoko not being trans is a cope so they can avoid getting hatecrimed by rightoids

>>43657657
i’ve only seen felix (never read/watched whatever dogshit they’re from) and kirara, but the blonde has tits. is that not a woman?

>>43657834
>the invented character is designed as gooner bait first and foremost to appeal to a specific fetish
this is every character in every medium in every culture btw

>>43657840
Extremely retarded take

>>43657834
A lot of characters like these are cases where the author describes a tranny and just goes "nuhuh they're not a tranny" and it's baffling, but it's partly because of how narrowly "trans" as a label is applied in Japan.

>>43657849
otokonoko, two spirit, third gender, and so on are all products of the universal undying trans spirit yearning to break free of the chains of social conservatism

>>43657840
it's a fictional character bro, it's not getting hatecrimed. also japan is incredibly safe when it comes to hate crime anyway, and being an otokonoko will not protect you from discrimination, if you have a chance at being a passoid trans woman in japan, that's actually by far your best shot at avoiding discrimination

>>43657867
>it's a fictional character bro, it's not getting hatecrimed
otokonoko are a real life thing, don't be a disingenuous retard just to manufacture a shitty attempt at a dunk on me

>>43657849
I mean they're not entirely wrong. Third gender identities like this typically evolve as a result of cultural and legal pressures that make a binary transition unfeasible or otherwise undesirable.

I have to recommend Talia Bhatt's The Third Sex essay for an examination of this kind of phenomenon.

Lefties aren't exactly known for being smart, anon.

>>43657867
The requirements for legal transition (SRS only being waived in 2023, official documentation from medical professionals, no children, unmarried, etc.) often make a proper binary transition undesirable, particularly for gynephilic trannies.

>>43657840
Also in Japan you have to have srs to change your gender markers although there's been a push back in recent years over that

>>43657911
>more leftist "facts" and "consideration of the ways things affect people"
oh boy here we go again

>>43657899
>particularly for gynephilic trannies.
To be fair that's because same sex marriage is illegal there, not anything to do with trans
>>43657940
wdym?

>>43657879
why would you bring up hate crimes to make your point though? your point is shit and that's why you're getting dunked on, idiot, take hate crimes out of it and you don't have a point. and a crossdressing man isn't gonna be safe from discrimination in a traditionally conservative society
>>43657899
>>43657911
i think a lot of prefectures will grant you the chance to change your docs based on an orchi alone now days, it really depends on the vibes of the civil servant dealing with the case as it's mostly discretionary because the interpretation of what srs entails varies, but there's no binding precedent either way and it's a civil law system so it's still fairly ad-hoc depending on prefecture and mood of the officials and whether you're willing to sue them if their interpretation is too strict in a particular case, and i think in most cases, people have managed to do it successfully as long as there was some surgical intervention

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>>43657954
satirising the current default argumentative position of rightoids

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>>43657657
You can tell it took everything in (OP)s soul not to include Brisket. Seethe.
Sage goes in options.

>>43657657
ferris isn't an otokonoko
beast men literalyl just look like fags
ferris tells subaru he's a guy and misgendering him is a you problem.

>>43658027
Didn't he pray to not go through male puberty or for a uterus or something?

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>Xeriously enjoying Gege Akutami's trash just because it has a male woman with tits in it.
Naaah

>>43658047
cismoid you didn't answer my Ben Shapiro question

>>43657657
I think it's entirely possible for a culture as superficial as Japan's they probably are trans but like porn and censorship laws, they have invented a convoluted and completely retarded label to avoid addressing the fact.

This thread is horrid because OP is just baiting but since the average tranny has 0 context to who these characters are they just assume they’re trans and fall into the bait. Felix is not trans and anybody who was even watched re0 would know that so it makes no sense for him to be in that image, it’s just awful bait. Kirara is moreso left in ambiguity and that ambiguity makes good bait as well.

>>43657657
I love it

>>43658037
isn't that ruka from sg? i mean yeah she's clearly incredibly dysphoric, i'd argue that saying that she isn't trans in that specific case is actually transphobic because it gets as close to confirming it stopping short of actually explicitly saying it. she clearly desires to by a woman.
>>43658047
gege's writing is shit yeah, but given jjk's popularity, she's still okay representation (assuming that she's trans) in the sense of not being outright gooner bait like some others, though she's still only a minor character that's most inconsequential to the story aside from setting up some plot points
>>43658122
yeah it's the same point that i made, i don't wanna comment on the other characters because i know nothing about them. it's also important to consider that even if a writer wanted to include a trans character somewhere, most people just have no idea how to do it well so it can often be a lot more ambiguous than even the author intended for it to be.

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>>43658057

>>43658174
(((Ben Shapiro))) wants you to rep

>>43657680
Yeah ultimately eurocentrism and/or white supremacy

>>43658218
bro is defending jap perverts this is aimed at for their “refined” taste by claiming that it takes a special refined mind to understand the beautiful mind of a jap perv who goons to this shit all day. I fucking hate weaboos so much man

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>>43657657
As an oldtroon it's heartwarming that the same pointless arguments that were being had 13 years ago on tumblr about the faggy boy from Danganronpa are going on today

>>43658266
No man they just do shit differently in different parts of the world is but better it worse it's just different

>>43658302
This is media created by cissoids for cissoids only using the knowledge they have based on other media created by cissoids for cissoids.

Like no otokonoko is actually spearheading these creative works.

>or just called them trap

every transphobe on 4chan really is just some ESL retard, right?

>>43658318
And you would know better than them right?

I dunno who the other three are, but Kirara has hrt tits and is hooking up with a straight guy who hates men. Plus Gege's pretty woke.

>>43658355
Uh, yes? Like even if I didn't connect with members of these communities, as a tranny I would, by default, have more insight into tranny communities than 99% of cissoids.

>>43658369
Figures

>>43657725
cant speak for the other characters but kirara is 100% trans out of that group. mountains of statements that only prove she is trans.
if you have the opinion kirara is a man or femboy, you are working uphill

>>43658302
>do shit differently
i've lived in japan, i know what an otokonoko is, my point is that it's not that really all that different from a cis gnc male in the west and claiming that it's some special magical category that is different in so many nuanced ways a westerner who doesn't goon to anime and manga 24/7 would be _completely_ unable to understand is stupid. doubly so when someone goes on a board that's both full of troons _and_ kind of adjacent to anime/manga culture
>>43658364
yeah she probably trans but it's never made explicit and gege probably doesn't feel like elaborating one way or the other to avoid losing readers and getting even more hate mail than he already does. but calling her a "femboy" or anything similar is just as, if not even more disingenuous
>>43658387
well yeah, i agree with your take, i wasn't saying she isn't trans, my point is that it's just not made explicit and people rely on that ambiguity

>>43658387
She's a man because all trans women are men

>>43658398
You have never left your basement though?

>>43657657
It gives me great schadenfreude when hons realize they can't look like japanese women and they never will.
And I mean the ones who have certain caucasian features that can't really be surgically rearranged to look soft or asian even if they were cis female.
That isn't to mention that they are taller than japanese men on average....

>>43657657
>>43658270
Yeah as someone who is barely out of baby-stage and never had a mother, I'm kinda starting to see how this keeps happening amonst white trans women in particular.

There's almost a need to project onto anything that GNC genuine transexuality. I've definitely done this, crossies are all really trans women, drag queens are all really trans women, bulldykes are all really trans men, and enbies are fooling themselves one way or another.

But it's not actually true. And I think this comes from a need to validate our own transness, the whole "it's not a fetish, I'm not AGP" thing mutates into a desire to prove that people who aren't trans, but just enjoy genderplay for whatever reason, are trutrans too. As if by proving their transness we prove our own.

I'm kinda making a concious decision to stop doing this. To accept that just because a guy likes wearing lingerei during sex doesn't make him trans, and just because a woman has astonishing freudian penis envy doesn't make her trans. And more importantly that what makes me trans is that I'm not those people, that I'm not like them, that I'm something else that doesn't have anything to do with sex or politics.

i think the biggest factor is that femboys or twinks just do not wear womens clothes in public. they may wear a dress or skirt in their bedroom for a picture but they would never dare wear it outside.

>>43658425
You tourists don't even try anymore

>>43658431
That doesn't work for me. I crossdressed privately for 5 years before I accepted I was trans, and even after I accepted it I was desperate that no one else find out for nearly a year.

I think the reality of it is that you just can't tell a trans woman is a trans woman until she tells you.

>>43658436
wtf? I effortpost and that's what I get?
I'm not a fucking tourist you fucking retard.

>>43658408
i could go and dig up my zairyu card or my taiwanese arc as that's where i live now to prove a point but i think that would be wasted on you. i've lived in a lot of countries, especially in easy asia and i'm not completely unfamiliar with those cultures. and you're still an idiot because _even_ if you were japanese yourself (and you probably aren't), you would still be claiming that otokonoko is some elusive concept that a typical "unenlightened" westerner is unable to grasp because of your own exceptionalism because you refuse to acknowledge that maybe it's not that deep and maybe it _is_ just what the japanese call what is essentially a gnc male

>>43658425
Except NBs are fooling themselves. But yeah trannies are always trying to erase gnc people

>>43658446
so you're saying you wore skirts out in public with your friends and to school and work? because thats something a trans person does, not what a femboy does.

>>43658519
I don't think it's about erasing GNC people, I think it's about trying to stop our own erasure in an unhealthy way.

This idea that the T in LGBTQ has to refer to only genuinely transexual people doesn't actually hold water when considered dispassionately. It really comes down to two seperate issues.

The first is advocacy for the unique needs of transexual people. Particularly things like access to affordable medical care, economic marginalization, social ostracization, and the mountain of trauma that comes along with being a transexual.

The second is that, certainly the G, has always invited drag queens and femboys and enbies etc into their spaces, which was their perogative, and that that invitation was extended to us too. But cisgay people don't really understand what it means to be transexual any more than cishet people do, and that invitation was made because from their perspective we too are GNC.

And this is where I'm at, accepting that the T isn't mine. It doesn't belong to me, it belongs to GNC people, and I'm not actually GNC. I conform to my gender, which my nature as a transexual makes female. At no point what LGBTQ really offering advocacy on transexual issues, but rather were misinformed about what I really am, along with the rest of the cis world.

>>43657657
because men ruin everything and approximately 60% of trannies are cis men who got groomed

>>43658563
No, I am saying I absolutely did not.
In fact I would schedule shopping trips around painting my nails, so that I would not be wearing nail polish on the days I donned my cargo shorts and polo shirt to go outside, before rushing back home to repaint them.

The fear that someone would figure out that I was trans was intense. It took me a long time to get over that.

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>>43658519
we're not trying to erase anyone. i think a lot of people ascribe transness to those fictional characters because they think "if it quacks like a duck" etc. and those reddit/twitter troons are just more exposed to their own kind way more, so they tend to ascribe _all_ gnc behaviors to transness. but yeah i agree, there's room for more nuanced interpretations. but again, it depends on the character, in some cases and for some characters, it's hard to argue that they're more likely to be a gnc male as opposed to a trans woman.
>>43658563
i mean a gnc male can do that in theory if they're willing to bear some discrimination because of it. i think the important part here, is whether or not they experience gender dysphoria and have a desire to transition. because if not, then they're not trans. i do kinda hate egg culture and view it as grooming of sorts, i think everyone should be able to explore their gender and sexuality without fear of prejudice and without external pressure to transition or not transition. but in cases of people who are actually trans it's also important to understand how much damage repping can do and that, if you do have a desire to transition, to actually get on hrt asap to avoid masculinization
>>43658604
>I don't think it's about erasing GNC people, I think it's about trying to stop our own erasure in an unhealthy way.
yes i agree, this is a good point. a lot of anti-trans people often say stuff like "why can't you just be a feminine male" (they don't actually mean it)
>idea that the T in LGBTQ has to refer to only genuinely transexual people doesn't actually hold water
i don't know, the inclusion of non-dysphorics and people with no desire to medically transition under the trans umbrella has done massive and arguably irreparable damage to our rights and healthcare, as a result of wanting attention and maybe a sense of community while (often transiently) experimenting with their own gender presentation

>>43657657
The difference is so small
It's just pronoun preference

It's an estrogen male
aka
Transwoman, but "he/him"

>>43657657
It's a fucking cartoon and these characters are made to coom to as fanservice. You trannies need to a) stop making everything about yourselves and b) get a reality check on why cartoons are not real and aren't governed by any of your dumbass rules.

>>43658613
>No, I am saying I absolutely did not.
that is exactly my point. the characters you see dressed head to toe in female clothing are more representative of real life trans people than they are femboys.
>>43658664
trust me i know femboys and they are not wearing girls clothes in public. they buy all their stuff online because they are too scared to even buy girls clothes in a public store. then they wear it in their bedroom to take pictures and thats it.

>>43658730
I'm not a femboy tho.
I'm a transexual woman.
If anything pre-transition I was the exact opposite of a femboy. Nobody accused me of being effeminate unless they wanted a fat lip.

>>43658717
>You trannies
the op most likely isn't a tranny though, and most posters in this thread are calling out the op on making this retarded and bordeline bait post with a meme that was likely made by some esl who just wanted to seethe about trannies over disagreement about their gooner materials

>>43658755
thats irrelevant
>someone who is not openly trans and hiding it (you) = dressed male in public
>femboys = dress male in public
>trans people = sometimes dress female in public

you can say anime is a cartoon and not real, but that doesnt change the fact these characters are dressing female in public and are more closely related to trans people than they are femboys.

>>43658664
>the inclusion of non-dysphorics and people with no desire to medically transition under the trans umbrella has done massive and arguably irreparable damage to our rights and healthcare, as a result of wanting attention and maybe a sense of community while (often transiently) experimenting with their own gender presentation
I agree that this is a problem. But the solution clearly isn't to kick GNC people out of queer spaces. The other queers don't want to do that, don't see why they shouldn't, and are in no way compelled to.

The solution is to recognize that T is for GNC people, and that's not us. That we're not actually that comfortable in queer spaces anyway, and demanding to change that is simply unreasonable.

The solution is to assert that transexuals are a seperate thing from GNC. That we're the ones who aren't actually under the trans umbrella.

And we I started thinking like that I realized how much that was a better solution. It's solves the political issues very neatly, you know sissy cross dressers in the women's bathroom is probably not actually okay, I don't really want them in there with me either. And it also gives us the freedom to advocate for what we actually need without being tied down to needs of the broader queer movement.

>>43658806
Except I was always trans.
You're born trans, you don't become trans when you transition.

>>43658828
irrelevant to the topic, you were hiding being trans.
which has nothing to do with the identity of people openly wearing girl clothes in public c:
can you keep up?

>>43658848
Apparently not.
Your definition of a femboy is someone who presents male in public but present female at hom.
I did that, I'm not a femboy.

You definition of trans woman is someone who always presents female, I didn't always present female in public, but I have always been trans.

>>43658819
I'm pretty sure if there was any serious movement for transsexuals being called something else, the rest of the umbrella would immediately demand inclusion

>>43658819
many trans people have tried that and have been accused of being transmedicalits (i don't have a problem with that term but it seems to have pejorative connotations in most circles) or even transphobic
>>43658885
yes exactly, and this is in fact something that has already happened

>>43658872
you literally just said you were not dressing female in public when you were hiding being trans. that is the whole point you cannot grasp for whatever reason, or you are baiting.

the whole topic is that anime characters that permanently wear female clothes in public are more trans coded than they are femboy coded. thats why trans people and anime watchers say they are trans, like in picrel>>43657657.
if you intentionally ignore this point again and bring up yourself then you're admitting you are baiting and im not replying.

>>43657657
Right-wingers cope about this kind of stuff for two reasons. One is that to them it's better to be gay than attracted to someone trans. Two is that they want to lionize Japan as based and conservative blah blah blah, so if popular Jap stuff has a tranny in it then that causes them cognitive dissonance.

>>43658889
No, there's a very clear difference between what I'm proposing and the transmed thing, in fact really what I'm identifying is the failure of the transmed movement to gain any real traction (although Blare White has definitely done well in alt-right spaces, which I think is an indicator).

The transmed movement wants to monopolize the T, where what I'm saying is that not only do we not monopolize the T, but the T doesn't really refer to us at all. The T is ultimately always going to be defined by the L and G, and they're not defining it as us.

And they're using transmed as a pejorative is their way of insisting on that, that LGBTQ is theirs, that we were invited in after the fact, but that was conditional upon obey their rules. This is the same issue we face in the rest of cis society where the cis people are writing the rules about us, but not with us, and not always for us.

So we need a space to write our own rules, which doesn't deny the existence of GNC people, it merely declares our seperation from them because our needs are different.

>>43658946
You come across like someone who doesn't really have the ability to form a discreet and functional ideology or movement based on these vibes of yours. "I think we should disassociate ourselves from the LGBT movement and call ourselves something different that's NOT transmedicalists like magical unicorn princesses." Okay sure, what is the definition of a magical unicorn princess, and what is their ideology distilled into 10 functional planks? How does this movement support and advocate for itself without the support and solidarity of several other, much larger aligned identities like the LGBT has, and how exactly does making yourself more vulnerable stop the Jesus freaks from wanting to kill you for their god?

>>43658983
>what is the definition of a magical unicorn princess
Transexuals as opposed to transgenders.
People who's neurological sex does not align with their genetic sex.

I don't know about 10 planks but certainly
- Access to affordable medical care and appropriate social and mental health supports
- Employment inclusion recognizing unique needs
- Legal and social recognition of our true sex (that we didn't change our sex, we accepted it).

Femboys, sissies and drag queens don't need any of that, unless they are actually transexual. But in that case that's still independent of their needs as queers.

And not only do cisgender gays and lesbians not need, but it probably irks them because it echos a time when homosexuality was pathologized.

I keep hearing that everyone's journey is different, but my journey seems to be so very very very similar to other trans women, and even many trans men, and is just so completely different from a genderqueer or a crossdresser. So what I'm saying is instead of saying transgender people aren't trutrans, why don't we just talk about ourselves and our journey and our needs.

>>43658926
i really hate the idolization of japan as some kind of a conservative utopia, their younger people are often anything but conservative and in many ways places like tokyo are just as, if not equally more progressive than the most liberal cities in the us, aside from being more anal about rules and stuff. but they only seem progressive and tolerant as long as you look good - i was talking to a japanese hon the other day and she seems to hate japan and she basically seems unemployable because she's not just a hon but she's ugly too

>>43659046
The current Japanese prime minister is ultra conservative and against immigration and was propelled to her position in large part by the Japanese youth.

>>43659036
>People who's neurological sex does not align with their genetic sex.
How is this tested? We can barely tell sex apart with biopsies, let alone CT scans. Like I'm not doubting the research pointing in the neurologically intersex direction, but part of making a functional movement based on biological membership is that you need to actually be able to verify that biology in a reasonable way. Otherwise you will get pretenders and hangerson. Also, you didn't address the half of my point about practical realities of forming said movement and making it effective, just because we can recognize something as true or as a discreet thing doesn't make it functional in practice.

anyone who unironically cares abt ts needs to rope

>>43659067
You are making the mistake of hitching 'is socially progressive' to 'wants infinite third world migrants' just because that's how it is in the US.

>>43658983
OOH I just thought of another one, destimatization. Recognition that while GNC people are often doing it for sexual purposes, and that's okay everyone has their kink, but that's not what we're about. It's not a sex thing for us.

>>43659086
She's against gay marriage and all that shit too. Japan is still in many ways a chud's paradise (based).

>>43659080
Psyciatric assessment. I've been diagnosed.
And having that diagnosis has been a comfort to me. It's comforting to be recognized. It's comforting for someone else to tell me it's real and not just something I'm making up.
But it's also really expensive, leading back to point one. Affordability of care.

>>43659080
As for creating a functional political movement, that's obviously a huge challenge and we'll need outside support for that.
But surely it begins with honest discussion?

>>43659086
i think they're anti-immigration but are socially progressive yeah. in tokyo, i'd often see people from sea and india working in conbinis and such, far more often than japanese people even and i guess it bothers. like to me, being from western europe, it seems pretty normal but the japanese seem pretty nationalist as a whole and that would probably be the primary factor in deciding how they vote. i don't think young people necessarily oppose gay marriage or even more socially progressive policies, they're just anti-immigration
>>43659114
isn't that just the ldp as a whole though?

>>43659090
The problem is that disentangling what's merely fetish from what's normal sexuality can be incredibly difficult. The self-reported nature of it all for one, but also the hostility towards female sexuality in general (treating a woman's sexual self expression as weird or unnatural,) as well as how twisted up inside a long-term repper can get in regards to sexuality. This ties into the whole agp thing and how much "I find myself attractive" is normal for a cis woman or not etc. It's not as clearcut as you present it.
>>43659118
>Psychiatric assessment
So you're once more putting the definition of your movement and your identity, which you want to be objective and biological, in the subjective opinion-based hands of a cis person?
>>43659126
>we'll need outside support for that
Which is what hitching to the LGB always was, and why T was part of the initial movement before G tried to pretty things up for the public. If you reach out to other groups you're going to naturally accrue with the LGB as natural allies, and you've basically created a situation where it's called LGBTT and ultimately done very little.
>Honest discussion
You can't argue someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into. That is to say, divorcing yourself from LGB and Q etc. won't win you any more friends because most of the people who hate you are either A) chronically misinformed propaganda sheep who will believe anything an authority tells them or b) hate you for entirely irrational reasons (often religious) and can never be won over.

>>43659161
>It's not as clearcut as you present it.
I don't disagree, but kicking GNC people out of LGBTQ isn't the answer.
The answer BEGINS with firstly recognizing that transexualism is different to transgenderism, and secondly in recognizing that we're not invalidating either, but accepting both.
> in the subjective opinion-based hands of a cis person?
That proposes that there should be more transexual psychiatrists, I certainly think that's worthy long term goal.

>Which is what hitching to the LGB always was, and why T was part of the initial movement before G tried to pretty things up for the public.
That's actually not true. T became part of LGBTQ during the aids panic when the CDC needed to classify people who weren't strictly speaking gay men, but were definitely vectors for HIV, with a broad term that covered the vast variety of what became known as transgender people.

Transexuals accepted the new definition because it gave us access to resources that we desperately needed and still do, but it's not achieving that for us any more.
>most of the people who hate you are either A) chronically misinformed propaganda sheep who will believe anything an authority tells them or b) hate you for entirely irrational reasons (often religious) and can never be won over.
I don't believe that, and I think you're guilty of the thing you're accusing other of. Ignorance and suspicion of anyone different to you.

The real problem is ignorance. People just don't understand what we are, and that's made worse by the transgender umbrella where we're lumped in with sissies and drag queens.

It requires a theory that explains ALL GNC, even tho we're not actually GNC, which is impossible and leads to inevitable confusion amongst cishet society who are always going to be limited in their ability to understand.

But that's not a unique problem for us. Autistic people face very similar challenges. But they don't hitch themselves to anything.

>>43659233
The issue here is that you are ultimately right. If you are trans, or hang around trans spaces and can't clearly see the difference between a "i cut my hair and changed my name to ayden" and someone who will throw themselves off a building everytime they see their reflection then i don't know what to tell you.

The issue here is that while LGBT is not the most fitting home for us, where else is gonna take us? LGBT is 10% of the population and we already get shafted, what do you think the Jesus hitlerites will do when you instead of having 10% of the people backing you up (more like 8% given how some LGB spaces are) or you can have 1% backing you up.

>>43659365
Ask me how I know you're american.
We're not in a war. All of this shit that you think you're seeing isn't real. Check your own experiences, when you walk down the street as a visibly trans women is it 50% of people harassing you? Is it the 65% of Americans who identify as Christian shouting "man" from car windows? Is it the 22.5% of Americans who actually voted for Trump at the last election? Is it even the 0.7% of Americans who watch Fox news with any regularity?

Or is it more like out of every 1000 people you pass by on the street maybe one mentally ill guy will decide to pull some shit and make himself your problem?

Because we're not 1% of the population, we're about 0.34% of the population. But the actual problem people are like 0.05% of the population.

The biggest lie the media tells is that anyone is still listening to their lies. And they all tell that lie. You have to be afraid of Fox News according to CNN, you have to be afraid of the lame stream media according to Fox News. Why? Nobody's fucking watching any more.

In the meantime being trans isn't an election issue, and trying to make it one has not gone well for us. It's a civil society issue. The institutions that we need aren't there. So lets build them?

But before we can do that we have to be able to talk about it. It begins with just an honest conversation about what we need and what we're not getting.

>>43657705
Your entire worldview is defined by "I am whatever I identify as, no matter how nonsensical that is"
And they don't identify as trans.

>>43657911
>srs to change your gender markers
based

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>>43657976
thats an edit

>>43658717
otokonoko exist in real life and if you ask them if they're trans a lot would say yes because a lot of otokonoko are trans.

>>43657657
>actually this person who takes hormones and identifies as a woman in France is known as a “transgenre” it’s a completely different concept than stupid woke American transgender
This is how retarded you weeaboos sound

>>43659866
the only difference is that not all otokonoko identify as toransugenda. but like a lot do.

>tranny :(
>tranny japan :O

>>43658604
>And this is where I'm at, accepting that the T isn't mine. It doesn't belong to me, it belongs to GNC people,
I think that's a bad way of looking at it actually

>>43657657
yeh it's kinda weird, when there are in fact examples of japanese media that specifically have trans characters
not only do they have a concept of trans, but trans women are usually conflated w/ okama which are more like drag queens in the west, but are well known in variety shows and so on
japan (like some other countries) has its own history of gnc that is distinct from the west, while also not being immediately trans
like they also have a genderless fashion movement that is not equivalent to the enby movement in north america and europe
besides that there have been normie dramas and movies specifically about trans women
so it's not like japanese ppl have a narrow view, clueless, or can't figure it out, it's that western fans want to pigeonhole them into labeled boxes that make sense to their own views

>>43659979
>Cis people who hate you associate you with ugly drag queens!
Okay? Nobody likes okama, it's an unflattering and insulting depiction. You're generally just speaking from a perspective of what the Japanese equivalent of a phobe or a chaser thinks, not the people themselves. Yeah ask anyone actually on HRT and walking around in female clothing in Japan if they identify as 'actually just a gnc male' and see what answer you get, or if they think of themselves as a fucking hairy ass okama.

>>43660004
right, okama=trans is a japanese attitude but not an attitude of japanese lgbtq community. okama are in reality just gay men and the trans/otknk don't really like them just like how trannies here kinda hate drag queens and only retarded ppl think its the same

>>43659977
Oh? Why is that?

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>>43660004
so u agree w/ me then???
if they want to fail at depicting trans women they would portray them as that more likely than as those other characters
the argument of ignorance doesn't only work for the cute characters, but also for stuff u don't like
here let me see if I can find an example, if I recall gargantia and shangri-la had some stuff western weebs don't want to claim

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hibari though

>>43660179
Kingly

>>43660159
Hana from Tokyo godfathers comes to mind too but she’s actually based

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I like the Turkey Lady from Dorohedoro too.

>>43657657
>femboy
>boobs
are gooners fr?

>>43657657
goonerfags will see an explicitly feminine anime girl with tits and call her a boy

>>43657657
who are they? I know one is the jjk tranny and one is the cat boy crossdresser

>>43659830
yeah and it's an edit that gets a shitload of exposure on /pol/