>ffs in europe is just as good as the uslol>b-b-but it's so cheap not worth it>poor/botched results are so rare!look at reddit lolWhy is FFS outcome so closely tied to price?
>>43683800Was this a cheap one? It just looks like a guy who shaved his moustache and put on a wig
>>43683822QQ result yepHe's pretty affordable once you're up the long waiting list.
>>43683800Because the price is typically based on the number of procedures and not necessarily the surgeon themselves, and the better surgeons also tend to do more comprehensive work.
She looks cute and that is a good result THOUGH.
>>43683850Not really. If I were a surgeon, I would have done a lip lift and even a lip flip, tried to fix that messed-up brow bone + lift the actual eyebrows up, shave down the big jaw to make it more v-like, also forehead reduction and nose slimming. No idea what to do about the eyes, though
>>43683871hard to determine what can be done from a photo aloneCT scan could've shown some absolutely fawrked setup with little bone to saw
>>43683871But the surgeons don't decide what to get, surely? You go in there and tell him what you want.And yes, really. She looks cute.
>>43683800went from being a swede to being a finn
>>43683901Is the standard of attractiveness for trans women lower than it is for cis women or something??
>>43683901She still looks like a man but of course a worthless chaser would like that
>>43683936>>43683916She looks cute. Does that upset you?
>>43683948I look better than this before ffs and I'm an ugly hon
>>43683800Is Mardirossian a good surgeon? Many of his works look good
>>43683953I doubt that but good for you.
>>43683970He's fantastic yea probably the best
>>43683970damn he can also create freckles and change your eye color??
>>43683840genuinely ffs results discourse is so stupid>surgeon is bad because the person only paid for trache shave and light jaw work>before/after photos all anglefrauded with a full beat on>result pics 2 weeks after surgery>everyone is extremely online so expect gigahon to stacey transformation, no concept of damage control or how busted the average woman looks
>>43683871well she should be glad she didnt get butchered by you then. why the fuck would you lift her eyebrows up considering how thats not even a sexually dimorphic feature and why the fuck would you make her already v-shaped jawline more v-shaped? it sounds like youre trying to turn her into a weird cartoon character freak rather than a womanwhy are there so many ffa threads up and why are all of them retarded?
>>43684041Um, no. This person, compared to a cis woman, is a four out of ten at best. We were expecting something that actually passed as a woman, not a man with long hair. I am a cis woman and know what women look like because dun dun dun... I AM ONE
>>43684054"Yes, high, arched eyebrows are considered a sexually dimorphic feature. In human facial anatomy, female faces naturally tend to have thinner, higher-set eyebrows positioned well above the eye socket. In contrast, male brows are typically thicker, straighter, and sit lower due to more prominent underlying brow ridges."
>>43684041trvke the discourse is completely worthless. in fact talking to trannies online in general is completely worthless. being in online trans spaces has made me transphobic because most of yall are unbelievably unintelligent, and also ugly and too retarded to even make yourselves pass as ugly women
>>43684059Only women know what women look like? Most cis women look like trash if you think that's a 4 you're probably a porn brained moid.
>>43684079I'm just sick of being subjected to ugly troons in public when I just want to enjoy my day. I have SPD so it is even more visceral for me. It feels like an insult to me as a woman, a caricature of one. Like I have said to friends "if THAT is a woman, I am non-binary."
>>43684068why the quotes, did you get that from chat gpt? the HEIGHT of brows is NOT dimorphic, you are just genuinely retarded. what IS dimorphic, is the THICKNESS of the brows, which makes them LOOK like theyre lower, which you fix by TRIMMING YOUR BROWS CORRECTLY, rather than having a retarded surgery, and indeed the brow bone underneath, which you fix by shaving the bone down rather than getting a retarded and unnecessary brow lift which fixes nothing. you fucking mouth breather.sure, go get a fucking brow lift and look like the retard that you are. its your face not mine
>>43684059taking the bait here but 4/10 literally means more attractive than at least 30% of women, also I see women all around my city with jaws and 5heads like that because once you leave the online bubble most people are straight up not attractive, still get treated as womengenuinely like I had a miraculous FFS result after some extreme work and look better than all my cis cousins that look like the OP picture because midwestern whites look and age like shit on averageof course her profile could still be super moided but we wont know because NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO TAKE RESULT PICTURES
>>43684098I'm a cis woman who doesn't view porn; it is demeaning to women. Anyways, sorry to break it to ya. That's ugly! The average cis woman is beautiful, and I can always find at least one beautiful thing about them. For some reason in nature, men are usually supposed to be more attractive, but for humans, it is women.
>>43684099and im sick of being subjected to the despicable existence of low iq "people" like you. you think im on your side? id bet a million euros you look more like a man than any of the tranny friends i have. ive never ever met a beautiful female transphobe in my life, you all look like men in wigs and half of you are addicted to trans porn. go be nonbinary somewhere else and kill your self
>>43684117I'm dyinggg I literally do modelling as a side gig. Cope.
>>43684132i know trannies who do modeling as a side gig tho. pound sand retard
>>43684145Haha, no. Too busy getting HD's in uni. For someone who is so intelligent, why don't you know that "yourself" is one word?
>>43684041There are some pretty obvious additions here that could go a long way like a lip lift and malar implants.
>>43684041Nobody spends money to look like an ugly woman lol.If that was gonna be the case I would've loved as a gay man instead.
>>43684281ok but she was pretty clearly an ugly man toothe point being "becoming beautiful" is nice but a much higher bar than passing, also limited by genetic and financial constraints, and arguably from this awful picture 5 min after the bandages came off and after all the makeup slapped on she does pass as a below average womanpersonally my goal with FFS was to pass or kill myself, being a gay man was never in the cards thats why I trooned out in the first place
Bump
>>43684281i had ffs with one of the best us surgeons and i look like an ugly woman. i don't necessarily mind it but like, as an agp, it kinda sucks because it kinda ruins it for me, so i just dress like a man instead because it's convenient>>43683800>>43683936i don't know why everyone says she looks like a man on the right, like aside from the beard shadow, i don't think she does, but maybe i'm a faceblind retard
>>43685623It's the hair and AGP Smirk I think. She looks like she belongs in Whoville.
>>43685623Which surgeon anon? Were you ugly before ffs? I'm not hot but I'm like cute in a guy way and I'd like to be cute in a girl way (also agp)
>>43685737>Which surgeon anon?keojampa>Were you ugly before ffs?kinda, but honestly, it was probably just down to me being a slob and not caring about my appearance before. honestly, if i really effortmaxxed i could probably maybe be like a 5/10 woman on a good day but i don't really know how to dress well or do my makeup, i should really try to get better at those things but i'm really struggling with depression so i find it hard to get motivated to do those things
>>43685814Why are you depressed?
>>43685852my voice kinda sucks, getting vfs for that very soon so it may help a bit but on top of that, well, i've not had a particularly easy life in general. i also think i might have a really bad case of bdd. objectively speaking i probably have little reason to be depressed, maybe if/when my voice ends up sucking a bit less, i'll actually be able to interact with people and live my life. but probably not because even then, bdd is pretty limiting because most days i just look in the mirror and lose all will to go outside or do anything and just doom. sometimes i look at my lower face and see how bulky or wrong or male it looks to me and it just makes me spiral
>>43683800its a surgery, not a fucking miracle. this hon can't even be assed to shave, realistically speaking no surgeon on earth is gonna salvage her. passing is 100% genetics. if you can't pass without FFS, you won't pass with FFS. FFS just enhances what is already present
>>43685921How bad is the voice my ram?
>>43686057something like that
>>43686206that's an exceptional result but still, even in this case, it's probably an extreme example of a case where someone is not held back from passing by their facial proportions but instead by having several extremely clocky and dimorphic features that are actually not that difficult to fix. if your clockiness come from those features as opposed to ones that aren't fixable, then ffs will do wonders for you. her example is just a bit extreme because her clocky features were particularly dimorphic in an almost exaggerated way
>>43686290With who? French girls are pretty!
>>43686257Okay but she very clearly didn't pass prior. FFS can fix some people who don't pass but not all, and it's dependent on what features are causing issues, the FFS techniques employed, and the skill/vision of the surgeon.
>>43683800Whats making her look like a hon here is she hasnt finished laser and the ugly fuschia lipstick that makes her look like a 60 year old and the agp smirk
>>43686315Robin Ruiz it was free at the time. I'm 26 and had it done 2019.
>>43686057i dont pass but desu if i could go from man to twink that would be a win
>>43686290see >>43686257, you probably lucked out with facial proportions, and in those cases, most surgeons can probably pull off a good result i assume you had a type 1 forehead reconstruction? it works for some people, but wouldn't have worked for the person in >>43686206 for example. so it's still better to go to a surgeon who can actually handle some of the more difficult cases.>>43686326oh yeah, i wasn't disagreeing, but i think even with ft, she probably would have ended up passing as well. the only issue would have been going to a surgeon who can't do a type 3 properly. and only ft does that in europe reliably, and i think qq got better at it now (at the expense of a ton of previous botch jobs, sadly)
>>43686366Would facial team have been as aggressive and done some of the other comprehensive work she needed? People call it FacialMeme for a reason.
>>43683970hes great but hes tripled his caseload and focuses on like two styles of result. some of his more recent patients come out looking inexplicably weird
>>43686409I wonder if he's having assistants do some of the surgeries then.
>>43683953so why are you in an ffs thread when you should be in a foid cosmetic surgery thread?you do realize there's a difference between those two, right?
>>43686383no lolmardirossian is in his own league
>>43686428idk but with the wave of tranny hate i don't blame him for doing so many more surgeries, lotttsss of money (he's also the best for aggressive results by FAR)hopefully at some point he starts training other surgeons like ousterhout because his forehead work is unmatched by anyone other than maybe liu or mittermiller
>>43686448Which is my point. I am sincerely considering quitting my nice 9-5 for a Starbucks job just so I can see him (and possibly Leif Rogers for clavicle and ribs and stuff).
>>43686450Honestly I need to break down which surgeons do which kinds of techniques the best so I can figure out my own needs. Like I don't need much brow work (still want it though) but I need plenty of lower third work.
>>43686383for forehead, if it was dr luis capitan doing it then yeah, it'd probably be on par with mardi. he's incredibly good with foreheads. everything else, probably wouldn't be, you're right. ft actually has a tendency to push back on jaw work in general, they pushed back when i went to them for my consults regarding jaw and chin stuff. so yeah mardi probably has better aesthetics overall and if she went to ft she probably would have still passed, but wouldn't look as good>>43686448the reason i cancelled on mardi is that an acquaintance of mine went to him and she still didn't pass after (at all), so it kinda made me worry. i think he's pretty good but not necessarily above all the other us surgeons. i also didn't want permanent hardware in my forehead because unlike jaw and chin stuff, forehead hardware is hard to remove if it got infected somehow (low chance but still possible), so i went to keo instead
>>43686458get a job with premera bc ppo as insurance, he'll take that (a significant chunk of companies with hr/hq based out of washington state go through them). probs the best insurance for trannies by far>>43686466look into surgeons that don't go super aggro (some are way better with this, ik there's the whole bdd "i want a new face" mental to get over w a lot of people that skews their wants). mm is the top contender for me if i can get insurance soon enough
>>43686477>ft actually has a tendency to push back on jaw work in general, they pushed back when i went to them for my consults regarding jaw and chin stuffWhy though
>>43686533i don't know, perhaps they feel that in most cases, the jaw isn't as dimorphic as most seem to think? a lot of trips on this board went to ft though, and some had excellent results. in fact, kat, who is probably the best looking trans woman on the board went to ft (though somehow she's still unhappy with them, though she did get jaw/chin done iirc).
>>43686591>the jaw isn't as dimorphic as most seem to think?I mean yes, that is true, but it is a part of beauty, and ideally when going to get your face peeled off, they can try and make you a pretty woman while making you a woman.
How much does keo cost? Anyone with quotes...
>>43686512Mittermiller was one of the options I was thinking but the long wait-list is spooky and I fucked up putting off some of it for so long. Current go to is Elda Fisher who I have a consult with in December.
>>43686512Also with Premera around here is basically just Starbucks or Amazon, but I talked with someone elsewhere and they were citing difficulties with getting Mardirossian to work with any insurance lately.
>>43683828Does he offer soft tissue work e.g. necklift/submentoplasty where indicated by the bony work?>>43686533imo it seems to be the hardest to get right aesthetically + in terms of how the soft tissue adapts. weird how many european surgeons offer limited or no soft tissue work as part of their jaw work.
>>43686799No I don't believe so.
>>43686850aaaand pretty much any soft tissue surgeon in the UK won't touch a tranny ("you need a feminising surgeon, not my speciality" even for rote procedures), especially one who's had a round of surgery somewhere elseanons, remind me how QQ is meant to be a feasible option for UK trans people again?
>>43683800it is, it's just that europeans are more honnish on average
>>43686927Why would you need soft tissue work? FT didn't seem open to it either.
>>43686760his wait is long? when i called they said they could schedule a consult in six months>>43686771colour me surprised desu, insurance is so bad
>>43687027I was told 2+ years. When was this?
>>43686940One of my friends got a chin reduction from Inglefield, the procedure itself was good but she was left with quite a Tobey Macguire neckAnd then getting soft tissue work in the UK as a tranny is much harder than for cissies because the surgeons have such easy outs to turn you down without it being discrimination that they just don't even bother exploring if trannies could be an extra market for them, they have enough cissies to work on we're not worth the bother (and a lot of UK cosmetic surgery is mid anyway because the UK hates and discourages the pursuit of beauty in general culturally)
>>43687055i called not even a week ago, unless the receptionist misheard me. weird
>>43687161Holy shit okay and what about the consult to surgery timeline? I'll call his office on Tuesday about it.
>>43684113>T. Born and raised in a cosmopolitan cityHontrapoints was right, it's piss easy to pass in rural America where the only tranny they can recall is Caitlyn Jenner and Methanies are a dime a dozen. Just by not being a junkie and >40 y/o you'll be in the top 10% of women even without FFS (not that any of the guys are worth sleeping with, but living in rural Michigan isn't anywhere near as bad as this board would make it out to be)
>>43687180i didn't end up scheduling because my insurance situation is turbofucked and i can't afford to travel rn :< really starting to lose my mind over ittommy liu being THREE YEARS was the biggest suifuel i've heard in so long
>>43687198Rolfes and Liang were super long too :(I called Elda Fisher at the start of the year because I didn't trust some of the other local-ish surgeons (Kuperstock in particular).
>>43687081i think that's pretty common in the uk, yeah, a lot of non-tranny surgeons will ghost you as soon as they find out you're a tranny, literally had that happen to me when i lived back in the uk because i had a clocky voice. sent them photos and everything and was fine talking to them over email but like after the initial consult as soon as they heard my voice, literally never heard back and then they ignored my emails completely
>>43683800Is there any point to consider Turkey for ffs cause I'm really poor thirdworlder?
>>43687224oh hell no. at least go to france or mexico or thailand. turkey you'll 100% get bogged
>>43687205i wish they'd bump you up if you were coming in from out of country, not happy that i have to compete with someone from rumpelstilt, flyoverstate for a slot
>>43687220What the hell do you do if you're a UK tranny who needs a facelift then, if the FFS surgeons don't do soft tissue work either??? It's insane that this isn't talked about more, we need to pool our knowledge as a community
>>43687257oh, for facelift i just went to korea. didn't want to go to america again because that was after they implemented all the anti-tranny policies. i think spain and france are also decent options for medical tourism. just don't go to korea for type 3 or any forehead work, and you'll be good.
>>43687248I mean if you're coming in from abroad, then why look at most of the surgeons if they're going to be similar prices to the top tier surgeons who don't take insurance?
>>43687286i was working a us job remotely for a while so i had the coverage for it. for canadians your options are to either go to the butcher of montreal, fly to mexico or sk and come back with that uncanniness and a hole in your savings, or suck it up to the americans for a while if you're luckyi could also move back to the us, but like my rent costs here are beyond comfy
>>43687315i don't think sk is that bad for lower face stuff and facelifts, it's a pretty big industry over there. they just don't really do anything that's specifically "ffs" particularly well unless you do very in-depth research, and that usually requires knowing korean
>>43686206luckshit facial proportions + makeup and angle fraud. the result is great, dont get me wrong, but mardi wouldnt be able to save the girl in OP
>>43683800Forehead embiggening surgery
>>43687366>but mardi wouldnt be able to save the girl in OPshe literally doesn't even look bad, are people saying that she genuinely looks male in the after picture? if you ignore the beard shadow, just kinda looks like a mid woman with plastic surgery, or am i really that faceblind?
>>43687385no im on your side, she passes, but she looks busted, i think that is largely because shes right out of surgery and theres a ton of swelling going on. but what i was trying to say is not even mardi would be able to give her the 10/10 500k instagram followers with a successful OF look
>>43687403She needs a lip lift and a hairline advancement, maybe malar implants.
>>43687437i dont think she needs anything, she passes. what is the actual goal of holding yourself and other women to these insane beauty standards? why is something rooted in pedophilia and mens desires something to strive for? the content of your character is going to make you 100x more attractive to people that actually matter compared to a lip lift ever could anyway. but maybe im missing something
>>43687220>>43687081I've been to normal cosmetic surgeons in Poland who seemed utterly unphased by me being a tranny. Dunno what's going on in Bongistan but you guys are sub-Slavic now.
>>43687437i'm actually really curious about what you'd say about my face (i'm the person who went to keo), though i don't really wanna post my face publicly because the board has been kinda infested by chuds and trolls
>>43687502>>43687480Idk "need" was definitely a strong word but it's the things that jump out at me most.
>>43683800i wonder if this girl knows her not long post surgery selfie is being constantly picked apart on this board :(
>>43687713I hope she doesn't use the board. I don't have anything against her but need examples as to the ineffectiveness of European chirurgeonst. OP
>>43687713i don't think most people here necessarily mean it in a bad way. though while this might be a tranny board but, most of us who aren't complete newfriends are still channers at the core so some degree of brashness is to be expected, i guess
>>43683800 >>43683913 >>43684008European surgeons can't give you the Mar-a-Lago face
