>tits
>im a guy
No you’re a mentally ill tranny faggot.

You have a very feminine body. Normal? I don't know. It looks male, but very feminine.

>>43709483
But I'm literally just a guy. Never taken E or anything like that. I just thought it was like, chest fat or something

>>43709471
Photo not very useful desu. Should be taken at chest level. And oriented correctly.
Your elbows and knees don't show an estrogen-driven puberty.
PAIS is defined by being one of grades 2 through 5 on the Quigley scale. You haven't mentioned any genital ambiguity.
You could be low T. Low T often results in weight gain and a more gynoid fat distribution. Look at the Wikipedia article for Kleinfelter syndrome for an example of the type of fat distribution I'm referring to.

>>43709471
maaam why are your boobs out on a blue board

>>43709701
T levels are normal (high actually, FAI is 100.5, shbg is 19, FEI is 5.7)
In terms of genitals, my scrotum is non rugated (was described at the check as "labia like", I think to do with flexibility/thickness?), I have penoscrotal webbing, my penis is small (3 inches hard) and balls are 2cm "long", semen is completely clear and waterlike, and the whole thing sits on like a "cameltoe" for lack of a better way of putting it? Like, the pubic area kinda has a "fold" that the penis and testicles come out of, if that makes sense. it was described as "atypical" (undervirilised) when checked. Also there isnt really much feeling in it

>>43709799
Could be PAIS then? I think the usual treatment for that is testosterone therapy. Maybe ask your doc about aromatase inhibitors too.

>>43709799
yeah that sounds like an actual disorder of sexual development that needs checking out. youll wanna go get karotyping done and such.

>>43709826
Doesn't feel like the right "direction" if that makes sense. I mean my dick has never *worked* right and it's not exactly impressive so I wonder whether I should just leave things as they are (health side notwithstanding).

>>43709832
Yeah waiting on karotyping results at the moment. It's more like, the "body read" side of things that I'm actually struggling with atm if that makes sense. When they took the measurements, they literally said I was heavily female leaning, and I later put it in bonepill which said the same thing, but I genuinely can't see it. Guess because I had 28 years of looking in the mirror and just seeing a guy. And like, 2 people have said about "boobs" in the thread so far but like, what do they mean, that's just how my chest looks, what boobs bruh
Am I retarded

>>43709916
possibly, you have a distinctly feminised shape to your body that is indicative of some gene fuckery going on youre legit more feminised than i was pre-e and i looked like an elongated child.

>>43709916
>Doesn't feel like the right "direction" if that makes sense. I mean my dick has never *worked* right and it's not exactly impressive so I wonder whether I should just leave things as they are (health side notwithstanding).
You shouldn't only be thinking about this in terms of sexual function. The health side is hugely important. If you're undervirilized then chances are you didn't get the full pubertal increase in bone mineral density. Bone density gradually decays as you get older.
Testosterone therapy could help preserve what density you did get. Estrogen could potentially help instead if you wanted to go that way.
I'm a tranny and even I take T, because I care about my long term bone health.

>>43710062
Yeah, makes sense. That and heart health was stuff that got mentioned. But I think he was less concerned when he saw how high the FEI was (I don't know what units that's actually in but he said it was "well outside of male range and into female range"). Though I think the concern is that like, long term if my T goes down, aromatisation goes down, and I can end up with problems etc so I think I'd go with E at that point. My T is already at the top of the reference range anyway fwiw (FAI caps at 104 and I'm at 100.5) so I don't think T would do anything for me

>>43710150
If you want to take estrogen then just take estrogen instead of acting like we're your therapist and you're trying to get our permission to do it.

>>43709471
you clearly have small boobs and wide hips for a man, not normal
it's possible that you have some kind of hormonal disorder. Especially what you said about the genitals.
what are your measurements on paper? Height?

>>43710176
anon let people have weird feelings about their weird bodies. its understandable.

>>43709799
>non rugated
Whats that

>>43710212
smooth, not creased

OP what did you think about your body growing up?

>>43710176
I'd rather do nothing if I can get away with it. Not asking for anyones permission.

>>43710181
Height is 6 foot exactly, biacromial is 13.75, bideltoid 16 inch, "underbust" 36, across the nipples 39.5, bi-iliac 14.5, waist 33, foot length 24cm, foot width 8.5cm

>>43710248
Not much. As a teenager I was skinny I guess? Really the only thing that I knew wasn't "normal" was sexual stuff. All the feeling is in my ass. But I was never attracted to men really. So the extent of "relating" to or thinking about my body growing up was just weird sexual confusion. I never questioned whether I was a guy etc. I noticed i looked different to other guys when puberty was going on, but I just thought I was skinny, and just not that hairy. Never really thought about it

>>43710364
>I noticed i looked different to other guys when puberty was going on, but I just thought I was skinny, and just not that hairy
This is common in undervirilized males.

>>43710309
your shoulders are probably a bit small for your height. You didn't say your hip circumference but it's probably big. Small feet. Otherwise pretty normal I guess
if you don't really want to change your body then none of this matters much anyway

>>43710393
Oh my bad, hip circ is 41 inches and thigh circ is 25 near the top and 17 near the knee

>>43709471
Nice hourglass figure I'm jelly

>>43710440
yeah hips are pretty big
you would probably have an easy time transitioning if you wanted to

>>43710501
A likely intersex condition is not something to be envied.

>>43710523
it is if you're trans

>>43710522
I honestly don't know what I want to be honest. All this just hit me like a truck a month ago. The healthcare system here isn't good so it was never mentioned at checkups before or anything even when I came in with issues that were most likely related. So it's sort of like the rug has been pulled and I can't even see my body correctly or anything. Other than the health stuff I'll probably just sit on it for a few months and see how I feel

>>43709471
You have the weird kind of body I had and I just hated it. I decided to transition to look more attractive. I wasn't as tall as you probably. I wish I had looked more like a guy I hate being a tranny!

>>43710539
It still isn't.
Routine medical transition is designed for people who are not intersex and do not have genital ambiguity. You'll get a worse vaginoplasty result if the starting point is a micropenis or a penis that has scarring from hypospadias repair, for example.

>>43710559
that's a good idea. You have plenty of time to think about how you want to be
finding out if you do have an intersex condition doesn't change much anyway, you're still the same person with the same body regardless as to if you have a condition or not.

>>43710586
having a micropenis is only really an issue for penile inversion, PPT wouldn't really be affected by that. It's a small issue compared to the many trans women with broad shoulders and small hips

>>43710618
Penile tissue is used for the labia too. Some trans women who had too little penile/scrotal material ended up with short labia because there wasn't enough tissue to make them extend to the vaginal opening.

>>43710593
Yeah that's the conclusion I came to in the end I think. Like initially I did the whole "oh shit am I a girl or a guy or a mix or..." thing. But then I realised that it doesn't matter. I am now who I was 6 weeks ago before I found out anything was wrong. But like, it would be nice to be able to see my body accurately. Like, I look at the picture I posted in the OP and literally just see a guy because that's what I've always seen if that makes sense. But other people seem to think that isn't the case. I'm wondering if that will ever wear off.

>>43710651
It's better to know if there are any effects on your health from it. I think you're doing the right thing by looking into it with your doc.

>>43710651
>Like, I look at the picture I posted in the OP and literally just see a guy because that's what I've always seen if that makes sense
does seeing a guy make you happy?
I think from that picture you look more or less like a guy, but definitely a very feminine one. It could go either way with some small changes

>>43710649
that's true
but still, a lot of trans women would happily take a more feminine body for a much smaller penis. I've been transitioning for a few years and my body is much more feminine than op's, but I would happily take a micropenis in exchange for greater feminization

>>43710501
>hourglass

>>43710677
Yeah the heart stuff scares the shit out of me. I think it's the first time I ever had a panic attack thinking about that, lmao. But hopefully the echo comes back okay. It not being caught for 28 years is really the only concerning factor but hopefully that and the dexa come back clean and I can draw a line under it.

>>43710678
Its more like, indifference? Maybe I'm just autistic. I don't think seeing a masculine or feminine body in the mirror would really make me feel one way or the other, more like "oh hey that's me". Does that even make sense?
I guess if I have to like, dial it in, my sexual function is in my ass. So if I ever were to have sex, I would naturally have to be a bottom. So I think in that sense, feminine might be more practical I guess? And I think leaning into that might be better given the micropenis. Can't really be masc with a small dick. But fem with a small dick, the small dick is like a *good* thing, right? Idk

>>43710782
are you attracted to men or women?

>>43710819
Women. But mechanically, that won't really work with cis women, and from what I hear a lot of trans girls *really* don't want to top. And I can't exactly top anyone either. So, whenever people have shown interest, I've kinda just been like "haha yeah" and then never acted on it or anything.

>>43710782
I suggest finding a doc who has experience with intersex patients if the results come back positive for PAIS, if possible. You don't want a doc who has no idea what your body needs. Think about how clueless most docs are about trans healthcare, then consider that intersex healthcare is even more rare than trans healthcare

>>43709522
I had gyno too, but I ended up troonin.

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>>43710894
Yeah I'm lucky to have just moved to a city and started at a university tied to the top DSD doctor in my country actually (really lucky coincidence)

>>43710953
Does this look like gyno? Or just chest fat?

>>43711037
gyno

>>43711037
>Yeah I'm lucky to have just moved to a city and started at a university tied to the top DSD doctor in my country actually (really lucky coincidence)
ah that's pretty much perfect. good going anon
>Does this look like gyno? Or just chest fat?
looks more like chest fat/standard moobs to me. i don't see breast budding

>>43709522
if you were just a guy, you wouldn't be on this board

>>43711068
Been on 4chan generally since 2010. Started looking at this board like a week ago in light of the working diagnosis to try and figure my body out. Don't really know what else to tell you dude.

>>43711048
>>43711054
Mixed signals but that's okay lol. I'll ask at the next appointment, I'm sure the doc will be able to figure it out with proper exams etc. It doesn't really bother me anyway

>>43711126
Yeah, if it doesn't bother you then the only reason to get it removed would be if it has potential health impacts that outweigh the risks of undergoing surgery.

>>43709701
>Your elbows and knees don't show an estrogen-driven puberty.
what would that even look like?

>>43711157
Oh yeah, I mean I really don't want any interventions at all if I can get away with it. To be honest, even if it *is* gyno or whatever, still not a problem for me at all. Not to get too crass, but I can reliably "finish" from rubbing my nipples. Its literally the easiest way for me actually, butt stuff is a bit of a faff. So I wouldn't want to jeopardise that or anything. Same with like, I heard somewhere online that they like to do orchiectomies to people with PAIS (cancer risk apparently) but honestly *fuck that*, my dick and balls might be functionally useless but I actually like them. Well, when they're not sore anyway. But like, it's sort of like that one kinda retarded pet you have that you feel fond of if that makes sense. I'm actually mostly pretty happy with my body I guess but maybe if I could read it better I'd be comfortable enough to be able to have sex if I could find someone that mechanically would work for me. Maybe a femboy top?

>>43711358
Unrelated but uk anon? From the use of faff and subpar experience with health care?

>>43711358
They like to do orchies to CAIS and high grade PAIS if they're going to raise as female. Never heard of them doing it to a low-to-mid grade PAIS person they've decided to raise as male, though.

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>>43711357

>>43712183
Yeah

>>43712286
It's a thing in the UK apparently but things here are pretty retarded (I think it's like, the NHS sees it as cheaper to just remove them than potentially treat cancer? Fuck knows). Either way I'm paying private at this point because it's the only way to actually get healthcare. Like, back in 2023 I went to the NHS asking for a hormone panel because my dick doesn't work and there was a girl I was working with at the time who'd showed some interest and I thought, *maybe*, if my hormones were just fucked maybe I could fix it somehow (I know now that won't work but I was just being optimistic) and they literally just pretended to do a hormone test, actually only did a lipid test, lied to me about my hormones being "perfect", refused to share the results until years later (a month ago) and only then because I threatened legal action. Shits rough out here. I know regrets aren't healthy, but I *do* wish they'd just done the test or been honest about not doing it years ago so I could know things were up, you know? Plus I mean, never mind the fact that all the weird genital stuff would have been present from birth, etc. Idk. Just not a good healthcare system really, don't know why people rapidly defend it

>>43712377
That is so fucked up.

>>43709471
>giga wide hips
>booba
you look kinefelters.

>>43709471
You just look like a skinny dude.

>>43712482
>skinny
amerilards have an altered perception of reality

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>>43709701
Chest height photo. Lighting sucks and I don't know if the orientation will work right but I always found android phones to be a problem with 4chan for some reason.
>>43712698
>>43712482
Yeah definitely not skinny lol. At the top end of healthy BMI for my height and that with potentially low bone density.

>>43712962
happens tbhon i just simply started adhd meds and they made me meth-skinny-lite. meth regular weight

>>43712962
I mean it's just difficult to tell how much is skeletal and how much is soft tissue.

>>43712293
how can you see this from the photo lol? What about knees then?

this is not a normal male physique but would succ dem floppers

>>43713075
It's quite straightforward. I physically cannot hold my arms in the position that OP is holding his at because my elbow carrying angle is significantly greater than his is. To make the forearms match I must rotate my elbows inward, but then my elbow joints are no longer facing forward.
Knees are more subtle. You need to look at the general angle downward from the kneecap through the protuberance at the top of the shin. OP's looks more or less vertical when his legs are together. Mine splay out more.

>>43713999
I suck at shape rotation and the photo quality is poor. I estimated my carrying angle to be 18.5 deg from a photo, which seems higher than normal male, and my arms look similar to OP's if in the same position. My knees are the same as you describe actually. Isn't this just a slight knock knee?