Why is it always the most bnwo gooning, dog collar brandishing, diaper sissyhon behind the "optics don't matter threads"?>inb4 NOOO there are billionaires who manufacture outrage against us... therefore there's nothing weird or wrong about me going into public places wearing full fetish BDSM gear + trans flags!!!
That famous picture wasn't even from Pride though
>>43740238>Yes there are billionaires manufacturing outrage against us but I'm still falling for their manufactured outrage, damnit!
>>43740238idk but it should be legal to just kinda punch these people
>>43740256I don’t need the government to tell me sneedhons are fucking gross
>>43740238the issue is that optics-conscious fags tend to not be much better. just look around here... wont shut up about optics and yet half of them are into BNWO/diapershit on the DL. usually weirder and more maladjusted than the average wholesome kweer yourself type tranny
>>43740256Im not the one falling for it, however I understand that iss puppy hon bdsm freaks like you make transphobes dehumanisation campaign MUCH easier by giving them so much free ammunitionBPD retards struggle to grasp nuance so it's no surprise that weirdest, poorest and most mentally ill amongst us are the quickest to abandon all caution. Benighted idiot.
>>43740303This. It's not that I think being a good person doesn't matter, Ih believe that it is important to show your best face to the world, it's that I literally don't trust none of you not to be optics nukes and have adapted to living in an optically radioactive world.
>>43740303While I think BNWO and diapers are reprehensible fetishes. I have nothing against any kink as long as people keep it to themselves. And why wouldn't I? A fetish that stays behind out of public sight cannot damage our optics.
>>43740350What the fuck is your point shit nut? Because otherwise it sounds like you're saying>I agree optics are important>I just don't trust others to present themselves well lolSo? You can't control the behaviour of everyone, but you can control your own behaviour and ensure that those in your local community have a better view of trannies as a group because of positive interactions with you. That's all im asking.
Ok im not taking a stance right now, but one question i have isis a fursuit head better than a pup hood? Like is the problem with hoods that they're tainted by their association with fetish?
>>43740679a pup hood? What do you mean, just a hoody with pup ears? Those are fine because it's typically just seen as cutesy (but slightly immature) fashion. It only becomes weird when you start wearing dog collars, dog ear bands and tails since that's most obviously fetishistic fursuits are paradoxically fine because you're anonymous whilst wearing them so even if you don't pass, your behaviour is not reflecting on our community.
>>43740256retarded take. the outrage i'm falling for is grassroots and i see it with my eyes when i see agp trannies in my spaces making people judge me by what they are.sage in name field too gtfo newfag
>>43740256damn didn't know musk and lockheed were making gay men wear fetish leather gear in public
>>43740238>chuds claim they hate trannies bc theyre weird gross perverts>op falls for it hook line and sinkeryou're stupid you're stupid you're stupid you're stupid you're stupid you're stupid you're stupid you're stupid
>>43740238p sure it's just a consequence of having an iq in the triple digits really
>>43740887>i see it with my eyes when i see agp trannies in my spacesyou wouldn't notice or care had you not been trained like one of pavlov's dogs by outrage content to feel revulsion toward these people on sight.
>>43740927>>43740965>>43740974NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT CHUDS YOU DISGUSTING GOONER FETISHIST, it's about fence sitting normies, they ABSOLUTELY ARE SWAYED by seeing a frizzy agp curled transbian think of it this way: every single tranny reading this, at one point or another, will be the first tranny a normie sees. You have the powerful to influence that normies entire view of trannies, no matter how much tabloid slop they've been forcefed, if they see you and think "wow, doesn't seem like a derange pervert, I guess not all of them are bad", then you have saved that person from becoming a reactionary and voting against our rights. but all this is besides the pointWHY IS IT SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU TO ACT NORMAL? WHY ARE YOU DESPERATE FOR OPTICS TO BE HOPELESS? IT SHOULDN'T REQUIRE ANY FUCKING EFFORT AT ALL TO ACT NORMAL, NO????ARE YOU REALLY THAT MUCH OF A HISTRIONIC ATTENTION SEEKING RETARD THAT NOT BEING WEARING FULL BDSM GEAR IN PUBLIC IS THAT FUCKING HARD? FUCKKKK
>>43740336You're too autistic to understand even the simplest thoughts in the minds of normal people, try not to be offended that people aren't rushing to do as you say
>>43741013>>43740974>>43740965>>43740927>>43740350>>43740303>>43740256atleast a couple of these posters are paid jeet shills, LLMs or chuds who are literally trying to convince trannies that optics don't matter in order farm more opticsnvke rage bait for the tabloids grim.
>>43741013and what the fuck am I not understanding exactly then, retard?
>>43740238>Why is it always the absolute worst person on optics who insists optics don't matterWell gee, maybe its because they have a vested interest in pushing that line of thought in order to increase their own value, like the 500 lb fat person pushing the idea of beauty at any size. It doesn't change much about the truth - optics always matter and fat people are still unhealthy and disgusting. But many people insist that the message is more important than reality.
>>43740994i have a job, i'm single, not really in queer spaces and more of an ally (i'm a tranny too but don't really vibe with it) and basically just want to be a normal girl. but still, i'm smart enough to realize that controlling and policing every other trans person's behavior and presentation is not only a fantasy, but not really a desirable outcome anyway. furthermore, you are assuming that the revulsion median cis people experience toward us is a result of exposure rather than being innundated with insidious, proliferated gender ideology from first moment of consciousness.
>>43740238because the idea that they're making stuff worse for other trans people is morally uncomfortable, so they cope that it doesn't mattertreating acceptance like a binary value held by everyone (all cis people will hate u anyway) is bad faiththere are indeed people who will hate you regardless, but there just as many fence sitters, neutral people, and alliesthere are also dysphoric youth who wonder "am I trans?" and then see sissies or theyfabs and think "thats not me, guess im not trans" and rep (ask me how i know)cis women are freaky too but they do it within their friend group or have an fan art page for some fandomoptics nukes are going to detonate because you can't just control other people, but every little bit helps. Note that there was a study that found that the only effective way of increasing perceptions of trans people amongst the public was positive face to face interaction.
>>43740994>they ABSOLUTELY ARE SWAYED by seeing a frizzy agp curled transbianthey will never stop seeing them anon, that's the problem. the chuds hate us regardless of what we do, and they will find 'opticsnukes' regardless of how many trannies restrict their behavior. we live in an attention economy and the most outrageous trannies will always garner the most attention, and you cannot and will not stop every outrageous tranny. the most outrageous trannies in this world give even less of a shit about your argument than i do. people will only stop hating us when they stop hating fetish gear as a concept, when they learn to respect people's right to put whatever they want on their own bodies, and when they learn that the algorithms that control how they see the world are deceiving them. there is no other way. attempting to police trannies' behavior is like trying to fix capitalism by starting a charity: you might help some small number of people, but you won't solve the problem, not even close. if you want to change how cis people see trannies in the near term, the best path is forming close personal relationships with them, not doing your hair nice. if you want to change how cis people see trannies in the long term, the best path is the promotion of radical empathy and acceptance.i have no interest in wearing fetish gear in public, honestly quite the opposite. as for other people wearing it, though?... i could not possibly care less. it doesn't hurt me, it has no relevance to me, it is utterly inconsequential. nothing will improve until everyone feels that way about it.
>>43741072>>43741130> i'm smart enough to realize that controlling and policing every other trans person's behavior and presentation is not only a fantasy, but not really a desirable outcome anywayAAaaaaaa jfc.. For the hundredth fucking time now... that's not the point. Yes I agree that it's impossible to impossible to police the behaviour everyone. My point is that we don't need to prevent every opticsnvke, rather, we just need to "show" that opticsnvkes are the exception, not the normConsider it from the perspective of a cis normie who's only ever saw trannies in the news/media before one day laying their eyes upon you in public: >First only hear about trannies from porn/comedy shows -> see trannies as a joke>Then hear a few "born this way" stories -> See trannies as born in the wrong body>Then see a few prison rapist stories -> Forgets about the "born in the wrong body" and suddenly starts thinking trannies are mostly gross perverts>Then>See a kind, mild mannered and well dressed twinkhon who clearly just wants to be a woman -> "Wow, I guess that story I saw in the news was just a real weirdo, poor girl has to deal with being compared to perverts all day!" OR>See a BDSM clad rude weirdo who's being yanked around by a leash about another equally inappropriately dressed troon, both of whom are clearly high/drunk in broad daylight -> "WOW! They really are perverted freaks, these creatures definitely don't belong in the woman's bathroom with my KIDS!" Can you see the enormous power you have over how they see us? Please don't think about this in black and white terms, it doesn't matter if there's a few optics nvkes who get broadcasted in the news, because just meeting *ONE* normal tranny will remind people that not all us are mentally ill freaks.
>>43741095brilliant post, thank you nona, this is exactly my view too
>>43740274I don't find them gross, though. Seems like overhating.
being a human being is an optics nuke
>>43741130>trying to police how trannies behave is impossible unless you can police how people feel towards fetish gearjfc>you can't control how trannies behave >therefore the only fix the optics problem is by changing how humans think on a primitive instinctual level ridiculous argument, you might as well just take the stance that it's all just hopeless and we're literally always doomed to be second class citizens who'll eventually be genocided at this point.
>>43741174Do you really think that there are like latex pups parading around the town all the time? I get that you're obviously exaggerating, but I think any given person's first genuine interaction with a trans person is going to demonstrate their normality. Like even the freaks are still normal when they're not doing their freak shit.
>>43741174>we just need to "show" that opticsnvkes are the exception, not the normyou will never win that fight. attention economy, nona: if you look and act normal nobody will notice or remember you, that's the entire problem and the reason we're in this situation in the first place. most trannies, at present, are not opticsnukes. they may be a little clocky, they may not have a perfect sense of dress, but on the whole they're really not going to be especially remarkable people. people still think of trannies as weird freaks because that is what is shoved down their throats on a daily basis, but more than that because they believe it, and once they believe it they will be subject to confirmation bias for any trannies they see irl. passoid? 'oh, he thinks he's hiding it' and they'll forget it instantly. hon? 'wow, these freaks are so ugly.' i'm not saying it's physically impossible for you to change a single cis person's mind by being a normal tranny, i'm saying it's a complete drop in the bucket and will have little to no long-term impact on how people see us. jewish people in nazi germany didn't have to be opticsnukes for the holocaust to happen, undocumented immigrants today don't have to be opticsnukes for people to want to deport them; there just needs to be the right propaganda. people will continue to hate for as long as they continue to believe the propaganda, and the impact restricting your behavior will have on people's belief in it is essentially zilch.
>>43741268Who knows, I'm a tranny so I don't have a good grasp on how often a normies see and recognise other trannies in public, although yes, in my nerdy tech/business hub city, I've seen several trannies do unbelievably gross things in public whilst also holding a trans flag for all to see, literal humiliation ritual stuff that made me die inside, if I were only a little more courageous I'd rip down the trans flag and call the police for public indecency. The most recent example of this horrifying experience is why I'm making this post now, actually.
>>43741262>>43741262I mean but is "change society" really any less actionable than "suppress the people that offend society"? The former at least has a stable end goal. It's also plainly untrue to claim that any of this is an "instinctual" response, except for maybe an instinctual fear of the other
>>43740994So religious leaders get to wear their fetish gear in public and get praised for it but I wear some latex and harness and I'm the evil one. Fuck this world and all you fake queers who tossed us trans under the bus. The neo corporate fascists and their religious or political puppets will come for you next.
>>43741262>changing how humans think on a primitive instinctual leveli don't think it can be all that primitive or instinctive if a significant portion of the population feels exactly the same way i do about it. i think people have just been trained to think that way. there may be some cognitive biases humans have in that direction, but people can and do learn to see past their own biases. changing how people think is the only way, because we do not have the resources to fight the information war the ruling class is currently waging. if you can change someone's beliefs, they become an agent of good who can help to change others' beliefs: that is how we win.
>>43741303>if you look and act normal nobody will notice or remember you, Non-stealth trannies will always stick out though, if you're stealth then this thread is completely and utterly irrelevant to you, you can stick out (e.g. twinkhon, voicehon) and still be regarded and as a sane and relatively normal person. Think about the first time you saw another tranny in public, it was a shocking experience wasn't it? That's how cissoids feel everytime they see you. >confirmation biasI don't necessarily think so. Take the case of immigrants for example, the most common accusations levied against them is that they're culturally backwards and prone to criminality, it's difficult to tell that they're culturally backwards or criminal from just looking at them in passing because criminals and law-abiding citizens often look alike. With trannies the accusations are different, it's mostly that we're just regular ass men in dresses who are trying to gain access to women's spaces for fetishistic reasons. That's far easier to challenge; because if you just come across as a gentle and effeminate person through your presentation, then even the most hardened transphobe will struggle to label you a rapist/pedophile/voyeur, and they'll certainly struggle to imagine you in the men's bathroom. The opticshons who induce outrage in the news look like pic related, as long as you avoid appearing as abnormal as them then you're actively improving our optics. The bar is very very low. >and the impact restricting your behavior will have on people's belief in it is essentially zilch.conforming to social norms is not restricting my behaviour. I am a diagnosed autistic tranny and yet I have a strong desire to keep my head down and fit in because standing out for the wrong reasons makes me feel intensely uncomfortable and is ego dystonic, isn't that normal? >>43741333actually just kys, please!
>>43741559No. Every second I live that makes you hate me just gives me validation. You're a miserable cunt who only cares about the ladder you used to climb yourself up on and not the thousands of other trans women who fought to have some semblance of the freedoms you have now to even exist. And now you're telling other trans girls to kys because you can't handle how we express ourselves at pride events. I'll continue to hon and counter culture because there will always be those who don't pass to others standards or those who are more pure than others. Get bent you pick me.
>>43740238There is nothing wrong with being a diaper sissy
>>43741559>you can stick out (e.g. twinkhon, voicehon) and still be regarded and as a sane and relatively normal person.yes, and then you will be promptly forgotten. i don't know how many times i have to say attention economy. people's brains will only hold onto the information that seems important to them, and you being a boring unremarkable effeminate twinkhon will not stick out as memorable or have a long-term impact on how they view us.people claim immigrants are lazy bums mooching off welfare, yet if you step outside all the people maintaining our roads, building our homes, farming our food, and upkeeping our spaces are immigrants! does this blindingly obvious observation stop people from seeing immigrants as lazy bums? of course the fuck not, because the way they think and weigh the evidence available to them does not change.>conforming to social norms is not restricting my behaviour.you are imploring people who behave in ways that don't conform to social norms to restrict their behavior to conform to them.
>>43741697>posting my beloved blahaj next to this age regression fetishismgross but in all fairness, yes, there's nothing wrong with having a fetish, as long as you keep it to yourself. >>43741693>No. Every second I live that makes you hate me just gives me validation.why? Why dose the disapproval of those who just want us to have a better life give you "validation"? >You're a miserable cunt who only cares about the ladder you used to climb yourself up on and not the thousands of other trans women who fought to have some semblance of the freedoms you have now to even existWhat the fuck are you talking about, the trannies of past adhered to optics way more than the zoomershits of today>And now you're telling other trans girls to kys because you can't handle how we express ourselves at pride events.Pride is genuinely fine because straggots know to avoid it. Just don't do it in public places where people are expected to dress normal. Thank you! >I'll continue to hon and counter culture because there will always be those who don't pass to others standards or those who are more pure than others. Get bent you pick me.what do you mean by "counter culture" exactly?
>>43741745>and you being a boring unremarkable effeminate twinkhon will not stick out as memorable or have a long-term impact on how they view us.I disagree and that's the whole point of I'm what I'm saying, idk how to resolve this disagreement any further. >people claim immigrants are lazy bums mooching off welfare, yet if you step outside all the people maintaining our roads, building our homes, farming our food, and upkeeping our spaces are immigrants!Again, this argument is black and white thinking. Just because SOME people are anti-immigrant reactionaries because they think that all immigrants are lazy welfare bums, doesn't mean that the visible and hardworking immigrants are completely invisible. Look at any election statistic in any country that has a populist right wing movement that's focused on restricting immigration. You'll see that areas with higher levels of immigrants tend to be disproportionately LESS reactionary than areas with low number of immigrants. CLEARLY POSITIVE REAL LIFE INTERACTIONS DO IMPROVE PUBLIC SENTIMENT. >you are imploring people who behave in ways that don't conform to social norms to restrict their behavior to conform to them.My point is that everyone should want to, being a weirdo in public is dreadful and I don't understand what these people stand to gain by deliberately othering themselves. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a tranny where she told me that once she stopped dressing alt, she suddenly realised that everyone started regarding her warmly. Duh! Just dressing alt is fine, plenty of people do it so it hardly makes us as a group look bad, it's just the fetish play that I'm urging people to not perform in public. That is a genuine rarity amongst cis people, that's unfortunately becoming popular with post COVID trans women.
>>43741924>I disagreeyou are wrong.>CLEARLY POSITIVE REAL LIFE INTERACTIONS DO IMPROVE PUBLIC SENTIMENT.personal relationships do improve public sentiment, passerbys in public conforming to social norms does not. people in areas with more immigrants have more direct interaction with them and opportunities to get to know them and learn to empathize with them. that is why i suggested forming personal relationships with cis people as a way to improve 'optics', if that is your concern. personal relationships work because confirmation bias can't make you ignore the material facts of the life of a person who you personally know. it absolutely can, however, make you ignore or dismiss the effeminate twinkhon you saw earlier that day.>I don't understand what these people stand to gain by deliberately othering themselves.you don't have to understand it, it's not your business.>she stopped dressing alt, she suddenly realised that everyone started regarding her warmly. Duh!you would blame someone who was treated coldly simply for the way she dressed instead of the people who judged her for no good reason? shame on you.>it's just the fetish play that I'm urging people to not perform in public.almost nobody who hates trannies has ever witnessed public fetish play with their own eyes. almost none of the people who participate in public fetish play are reading this, and the tiny minority who are are laughing at you.
>>43742050I give up, you're frustratingly obstinate, kys you disgusting gigahon fuck, I can't believe I'm going to end up in a fucking death camp because of disgusting optic nvke freaks and their apologists, I fucking hate being a tranny so much holy shit, I would give up everything in my life to be reborn cis so I don't have to be lumped in with you benighted subhumans any longer. Don't even bother responding, I'm uninstalling Kuroba and never talking to another tranny again.
It's also worth noting people are very much susceptible to "no good undercover cops" fallacies in regard to trannies. That's not a real term so to explain, you only ever see bad undercover cops, not because there are no good undercover cops, but because it's an undercover cop's job to go unnoticed. To the average person, all trannies are hons because those are the only ones they know are trans. Ironically, if you assimilate too hard you stop being a positive advertisement at all.>>43741308I also must think that this has skewed your perception somewhat. I don't think the average person has experienced an opticsnuke like this in real life. Or at least I think it happens way more often where you live than is typical. I think it's far more often that a person gets their groceries checked out by some hon than sees them liplocked in a bar.>>43741924>My point is that everyone should want to, being a weirdo in public is dreadful and I don't understand what these people stand to gain by deliberately othering themselvesWhat a dreadful world to live in that would be. For many, to be trans is to be a weirdo. There are very few who are so lucky as to be able to express themself as they wish without going afoul of societal expectations. If the society we live in does not serve us, then we should change the society or get used to living with its ire. We would not be where we are today if people were forever beholden to the whims of society.
>>43742207i understand you are frustrated and hurting and wishing there was a way for people to stop seeing you as something you're not. i am very sorry, but acting like this feeling is unique to you or that people with different ideas about how to fix these issues are nothing but apologists is just immature. do you think i enjoy being a tranny any more than you do? do you think i wouldn't sell my soul for cis people to look at me like i'm anything other than a monster? we are all hurting, we are all trying to figure out how to build a world where we don't have to hurt anymore. i am saying that that world will never be one in which the way a person dresses still determines whether they are treated with dignity.
>>43742207six minutes late. not that it would've done much really. I hope they're not miserable forever
>>43742257>>43742287sorry for my harsh response, it was not appropriate and despite what I posted, I care deeply about trans people. I just feel sad that I don't see any practical option but for me to go deep stealth and isolate myself for my own safety.
>>43742609it's okay nonny, i know your intentions weren't impure. i hope you can find peace and acceptance in your life. do not lose hope: we are on the side of truth, and the truth can only be suppressed for so long. history will vindicate us.
>>43740238the real trvke is that the billionaires who manufacture outrage against us love nothing more than gigahon opticsnvkes who make it possible for them
>>43742609you shouldnt be ashamed of going stealth. if you want you can continue to inspire people how you see fit but you dont owe anything to the public.
