>>43792016
I read it and I think you're brainwormed

>>43792016
if your takeaway from this novel is just “muh agp” shit im gonna assume you’re a babytrans boymoder and need more time being trans irl

>>43792098
no offense but I live stealth and have been for years lmao
which is also something Binnie has an issue with apparently so idk

>>43792124
so do you just voluntarily choose to be here and behave like a 9mo hrt boymoder for fun or what’s your deal

>>43792137
elaborate what about my takes is so immature lol
I'm not claiming to be a functional human being else I wouldn't still be here on occasion but I just don't know any trannies irl and I'm not gonna talk about the tranny book with cis people

>>43792158
>don't know any trannies irl
yea i can tell
anyways good luck on your journey hon

>>43792016
I haven't read it but my impression of the book is exactly as you describe

>>43792016
she's saying when you can just float through life subconsciously repping then it's common that the first really hard hitting sex dysphoria you encounter is jerking off, so being a woman in a sexual context becomes a fetish for you, not that you should be gooning your way into being a woman

she also said almost all that porn is super low quality male gazy sissy shit, she's not saying it's good or anything

and the only reason she is saying any of this is because she thinks James is in the same boat of subconsciously repping and thinks he is AGP and not trans because of it

>>43792016
>a whole ass rant about how AGP isn't real and every real woman starts jerking off to the fantasy of being a woman
This is not true and a huge tranny cope but no matter how much you tell them trannies will deny it
t. cis woman

>>43792137
People can have different opinions than you

>>43792303
right, and the whole part about dissociating and living life on autopilot was valid and relatable, my issues are very specifically with how she factors in the forcefemme kink as some inevitable outcome of repressing transsexuality

I fully admit maybe it's a personal issue because I'm just really a very unsexual person and I hated pre-transition sex and masturbation and I was if anything especially detached in those moments so I just really don't get how it can be the opposite for others idk

>>43792533
asexuals should label all their posts up front so normal people know they shouldn't have to waste their time explaining basic human nature to them

>>43792884
asexuality isn't real though
also like I enjoy the idea of sex now being postop and all yknow it just reminds me how I'll never be a real human being so it bums me out

>>43793142
ok it's not like these people are #1 forcefem enjoyers they just have sexual urges and are mentally mapped to being female while being completely male, so smut like that lets them subvert the shame they are feeling about not being able to identify with the male sex role by making the swap involuntary, also most of this is entirely subconscious hence why in the book James is like "oh I dunno I just like it idk why" any time Maria tries to pinkpill him

like I used to read that stuff back as a teen for a similar reason, now there's no point because I can just do PIV as a normal woman in real life with my bf. it's all a cope for shitty personal material conditions

>>43793420
that makes some sense, just can't relate at all ig

>>43792016
I couldn't make it through the audiobook desu, never even got close to part 2.
After a couple of hours of her riding her bike while thinking about how punk rock and feminist she was all I could think was "I don't care about anything this person has to say."

Particularly the pickme feminist shit. "I'm just so feminist it hurts, I fucking love the absolute shit out of feminism, you won't even believe how feminist I am."
Like yeah yeah you're one of the good ones and JK Rowling will totally write an exception into the anti-trans laws specificially for you because you're just so feminist.
Fuck off.

Torey Peters in Detransition Baby goes into pretty significant detail about why burgeois white feminism is performative victimhood and how that inevitably crosses over into trans "allyship" that has only a superficial relationship to the actual needs of transsexual women, represented by Madonna's "trans charity fundraiser" not a single dollar of which would go to helping transsexuals but rather was intended to fund cis people to talk about transgender issues.

The contrast between Imogen and Torey couldn't be starker. Where Imogen takes the stance of appealing to leftarded cis morons and writing what is effectively an appology for being trans with an overly sanitized exploration of being trans that verges on contempt for the idea of being queer at all, Torey is brutal in her mission to tell the story of how it actually is, not as cishet allies would like to imagine it.

And seriously, only one of those approaches is valid for me as a reader.

>>43792016

You think the book is telling you that James isn't supposed to troon out? And do you think that just because he leaves Maria at the end and doesn't troon?

You're simply not interpreting the story right. This is a book about trans people's lives not some cut and try categorical bullshit to sort out who's valid and who's not.

Also relating to Maria in the first part is cringe because she's totally not self aware at all, she thinks she's enlightened but she literally just happens to be trans and has no ability to articulate or understand anything about it. It's rather like Holden Caulfield.

>>43795976
yeah those parts dragged on a bit but imo you were supposed to be annoyed by that, I was waiting for the character development to happen

>>43797749
>>43797749
No the book is telling me that James isn't ready to accept the truth that he is trans yet
And I mostly related to just some of her musings on being trans, she did use it too much as an excuse for her bad decisions but like I said above it seemed it was meant to annoy you and she was supposed to mature a bit but I don't really see that happening, she's still in full victim mentality towards the end

>>43795976
they're both pretty bad writers but at least imogen's writing style is faster to get through and she shows a modicum of self-awareness of how childish, unlikeable and narcissistic her self-insert MC is while peters doesn't. both are poor exposition dump books of the author's personal views

>>43799851
I didn't get the sense that Reece (from detransition baby) was a self-insert, more of an ideal type. The elder trans we all kinda wish we could be, contrasted with Ames/Amy as the trans we kinda are.

Reece is neurotypical coded, comfortable and confident in her sexuality, has dealt with her issues and trauma and learned to accept where she fits into society, even if it meant making peace with hopelessness.

Ames/Amy is autism coded, an irrepressible transbian with an unsatisfying sexuality, can't find a way of breaking with her male self before detrans, nor of accepting her lot after detrans, and just generally unable to achieve any sort of peace.

As for the authors personal views, I found Torey to be just mindblowing in the way she unappologetically explains transsexuality and society. I have just been bombarded by the whole "you must be a woke feminist and support progressive genderism" stuff since I came out and it never sat right with me, and I felt so alone and isolated because of that. Particularly coming here and being constantly told that literally any part of my sexuality was "AGP", which was reflected in my real life experiences of being told to never ever discuss it. And then Torey just blows all of that away with the notion that "being trans in a relationship automatically makes that relationship a queer relationship, with all of the baggage and problems that come along with that. That doesn't make you less of a woman, it just makes you a different kind of woman that has to make allowances for that."

That was so liberating for me.

Like I said I didn't get far through Nevada but I just felt like I was being pushed back into the closet, which is such a weird way to see it when I'm heterosexual, but that's still what it felt like. Like I was supposed to be ashamed of being a woman who prefers the company of men.

>>43792016
>1.) Agp is fake though

>>43800174
>being trans in a relationship automatically makes that relationship a queer relationship
that's just incorrect though

>>43800295
Of course it does.
Being trans is not normal.

Even if you were a perfect post-op stealthoid in a lifelong monogamous relationship with a cishet husband, the fact that you've gone through transition and then kept that buried inside of you makes it a queer relationship.

And that's very much a repeated point in Torey's story telling, that you are coming to any relationship as a transsexual, you're carrying that baggage into that relationship making that relationship queer by default.

That was the strugle that Katrina faces, she thought she was in a normal cishet relationship only to find out her babydaddy was/is a transsexual. Even tho he'd detransed and repressed, not only did it become a queer relationship after he came out to her, but it was already a queer relationship she just didn't know it. And so this cishet woman who had never had a queer thought in her life had to take a crash course of what it meant to be queer.

>>43792016
>thinking plot/opinions stated intradiagetically always map 1-to-1 to the author situation/opinion
reads at middle school level alert

>>43800411
Is your cishet husband also in a queer relationship?

>>43800411
>And so this cishet woman who had never had a queer thought in her life had to take a crash course of what it meant to be queer.
Sorry, but this isn't what happens. Cishet people don't "become" queer overnight when their partner finally troons out. They put up with the behaviour because of the sunk costs fallacy. Trooning out on your spouse is actually an exceptionally evil thing to do and doesn't make the spouse queer.

>>43800433
shut up pooner

>>43800442
The relationship is queer so yes.

>>43800453
The relationship IS queer tho. So the spouse upon becoming aware that they're in a queer relationship has to make the decision about how they feel about being in a queer relationship.
Inevitably they all make the same choice and choose not to continue the relationship.
Pretending that's not true doesn't make it not true. That's why Torey's writing is so powerful. She's literally putting it to the trans reading "You can't get out of this, you have to deal with it."

This is where Reece as the ideal transsexual stands in contrast with Ames. The relationship with Stanley, and with the Cowboy, these aren't cishet relationships because she's not cishet. That's what makes it not cishet. She doesn't like the relationship with Stanley but it's giving her what she needs and she's made peace with that. Meanwhile Ames in this supposedly "normal" relationship with Katrina faces a problem fairly common in cishet relationships and immediately queers out.

>>43800486
>The relationship is queer so yes.
kys

Bisexual women and their boyfriends are not in queer relationships either.

>>43800496
I can't speak to that, as I've never been and will never be in that situation. But I will say that if the woman is openly identifying as bi while in a straight relationship that whatever is going on between them will have some sort of queer element.

And I'm definitely not going to kill myself just because you don't like your reality. I've called Torey brutal a couple of times, because it is brutal, this isn't supposed to be fun.

It's supposed to be a recognition of tragedy of queer.

And on a related note, I was having this conversation with a gay man who'd been in a relationship for 26 years, they have a daughter, and I put Torey's thesis of queer to him and how that had changed my perceptions about what it meant to be queer, and he thought I was retarded for not already knowing this. All queers are broken, being queer makes you broken. There's no such thing as a normal queer.

>>43800496
Im a trans woman and date a bisexual woman and we are in a straight relationship. Queer is a useless term because it used to be a vague catch all insult and now its a vague catch all identity. Its like arguing who counts as a faggot

>>43800533
I used to think that until I read Torey Peter's books.
What it really is is simple, but the cishet have conjured into something it isn't. All it comes down to is recognizing that the rules are different.
And pretending otherwise, pretending that we can eventually just be like the normies, even tho that's really the point to everything we do (Reece's desire to have a baby and be a mother), pretending that we can just not be queer is what ultimately destroys us.

In fact that's really the moral of all her stories now I think about it.

>>43800525
>All queers are broken, being queer makes you broken.
what a miserable and pathetic thesis

>>43800553
>And pretending otherwise, pretending that we can eventually just be like the normies,
speak for yourself, I want nothing to do with normie cishet society fuck that

>>43800577
Like I said, it's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be true.
All trans stories are tragedies.

Becoming the ideal transsexual woman (becoming Reece) means coming to peace with that.

>>43800583
You'd probably like Nevada then.

>>43800593
Things can contain tragic elements without being defined by them

>>43800593
so just kys then escape the misery
I'll be fine not stressing about mid tranny lit

>>43800602
False things.
If you want a fairy tale watch disney cartoons and self insert as the princess.
But when the movie is over you'll still be trans.

>>43800609
No.
It's you that has the problem with this.
I'm making peace with it and learning to understand what my relationship as a transsexual woman is to society.

>>43800613
Your example is my example. Every disney movie starts with tragedy but they are happy fantasies.
>When the movies over your still trans
Yeah and given enough time you die. Framing is the entire point of a story

>>43800618
yeah sure good luck

>>43800623
Apparently you don't understand the difference between tragedy and comedy (tell me you're American without telling me you're American)

Comedy = simple morality play where the protagonist has to overcome some trial to achieve a happy ending.
Tragedy = complex morality play where people's mortal frailties lead them inexorably down a path to their own destruction.

The classic tragedy is Romeo and Juliet where two star struck young lovers caught between two warring families wind up taking their own lives. There's no good guy or bad guy, it's not really anyone's fault, it's just normal human flaws that end in tragedy.

The reason trans stories are always tragedies is because even in our triumphs we're still trans, still imperfect, still faulty. The greatest day of our lives is followed by just another day as a fucking tranny. We cannot escape our nature.

>>43800645
Lol enjoy ur suffering. Im sure life is harder in the 3rd world

>>43800654
Why would I enjoy suffering?
And what do you do when you suffer as you inevitably do as a transsexual living in America?

>>43800671
>Why would i enjoy my suffering
One must imagine sisyphus as happy. You suffer becouse you chose to suffer. It probably reaffirms some belief or validates some emotion, desire, or identity you hold dear.
>As you inevitably do in America
Where i live is pretty chill. People are nice and dont care. If i have a bad day or get too in my head i process it or get comfort from my loved ones. What i don't do is make some narritive that makes my suffering a innate quality of my existence

>>43800720
WOW! way to miss Camus' point.
Okay, now it's my turn to say good luck. You clearly have a journey in front of you.

>>43800742
I like your points and you've convinced me to read detransition baby at some point. I've seen a book review about it and know the rough plot but you've made me interested in reading it thoroughly. I read Nevada and enjoyed it but after being out for like 10 years it didn't feel like there was much I actually took from it, was recommended by someone maybe a few years into transition

Also some people are dense and reading what the other person wrote made me impressed at how incomptehensibly well they missed the point of everything and I feel like they're gonna be stuck in their own cycle of samsara for a while longer

>>43800937
Same fag