>>43826363
I had these issues and rode it out and now things are better. While my identity is often more male (I get despondent and more dysphoric otherwise because I start yearning more) my body goals are almost entirely feminizing.

Not a guaranteed strat but it's what happened.

There should really be a general for all these chronic questioners and cis men on hrt type posts.

>>43826363
Do you like the resulys? Then keep going. There is no rule of the universe that says yuo have to call yourself a woman. I dont and im 4 years post op lul
>>43826420
Based
Feminized amab is a comfy existence

>>43826363
there's no such thing as a trutranny just people who want/need to transition, anyone who says otherwise is coping. you're doing good nona, keep going

>>43826420
>I had these issues and rode it out and now things are better.
Im hoping for that still kinda. How long did it take for you?

> my body goals are almost entirely feminizing.
Same, tho my issue is that idk if that is worth doing a whole ass transition. + im scared i might not be able to deal with having boobs. Im not certain i dont want them but im also not certain i do, it sucks. Everything else i def lean female on tho i think.

>>43826551
Maybe, but also a lot of these posts (but not all) are just me so idk if its worth it lol.

>>43826833
> Do you like the resulys? Then keep going.
Ik its technically that simple. But the problem is that idk, i thought that came thru in the op.

I like most of it quite a bit, esp face/skin/fat distribution changes. As well as less body hair growth n stuff.

The only problems i have are some minor annoyances that i dont actually mind that much.

But the big one is breast growth. Im so scared ill regret growing boobs or develop dysphoria about having them or just wont be able to deal with having them.

But then other times i can be quite happy with them. Like sometimes i also think they are cute, and its nice they make my torso more fem/curvy and i like that they make my chest more sensitive, that feels oddly right sometimes.

And then other times i freak out because i feel like i have to get top surgery now :/.

> Feminized amab is a comfy existence
Also sometimes just consider doing that. But then i get scared hrt will work "too well" and make that hard to keep up too.

>>43827083
I agree actually.

Its just that i do sometimes think i want to transition. But then i think "what if i didnt properly think this through and i dont actually want to?" or sth else.

I sometimes even think i need(ed) to transition. But then i think "But did i really need to do this? Couldnt i have at least tried sth else first? What if im just misplacing my issues from elsewhere onto this?" or sth else.

When i say "trutrans" or that i "wish i was more (tru)trans" or sth like that, i actually mean that i wish i was more certain i wanted or needed to transition.

Rather than complaining i lack some indecipherable "tru trans gender" essence i wish i had. Altho sometimes i do mean it that way as well, but usually i also at least mean the former.

> you're doing good nona, keep going
Why do you think im doing good? And especially why do you think i should keep going?

>>43827191
>hrt will work "too well" and make that hard to keep up too.
You'll cross that bridge IF and when you get to it. I'm somewhat there but over a decade in. And it was srs that destabilized my ability to be socially male (still no regrets because srsade my sdcuality way more enjoyxble amd stable).
Worry less, LIVE more. Life is already too short.

hey you are back!

i lost self control and keep binging on food. healthy stuff but still im so gd hungry and i keep doing it anyway while thinking "this is for my boobs" and it makes my tiny cones inflate istg all my excess calories goes to my chest. and now its over 100 degrees and im gonna need a fucking binder like last week because i cant keep walking around with pointy cones. its fucking over

i also committed to picking up ot so i can afford a blood test because theyre are stupid complications w my rural area and i gotta go for a drive

I fucking hate being a pinkpiller, BUT

I think it's better to just take the risk, and regret it later. Instead of regretting doing nothing at the end of your life. At the very least, you'll know WHY you regretted it, instead of wondering "what if" in ur old age

>>43826551
>There should really be a general
theyre should! this is it!

>>43826551
>cis men on hrt
yeah ive been wondering about them and have questions. but i kinda cant rememeber what they were.

one was i wanted to know if they are straight... or gay.? we know they are cis, so if they like men thats gay? but idk why i wanted to ask...i think it was related to their motivation. like if they like girls then it lessens the motivation to socially transition? i think there was a question about attraction changing on hrt too. they always say "cis man" never "straight man" so i think there is something important going on. whatever i wanted to know seemed more specific and consequential at the time i thought of it.

>>43827561
I think a lot of the regret stuff is overblown by transphobes, homosexuals, primary repping gay men, or just those trolling for the sake of trolling. Often all of the above. Even some of the most hons of hons are happy. They might not ever reach full happiness due to underlying psychological issues including various dysmorphias but they're still more happy living their life as a woman.

>>43826420
>I get despondent and more dysphoric otherwise because I start yearning more
elaborate?
>my body goals are almost entirely feminizing.
same. coming to terms with nonbinary as a real think instead of cope

>>43827191
>im scared i might not be able to deal with having boobs
i am constantly reminded that the average dudes gyno is literally 2-3-4 times as big as my micro cones. despite the shape, and nips making it incredibly obvious i honestly dont think people notice especially if they dont know me and havenet witnessed the change. seriously the avg guy is fucking fat and has a whole overflowing handful of tits and im not even close

but i do get stares or double takes. i choose to believe its because im fuckin hot, and desu the staring is approx similar to when i was hot in college and so is my style(very tall, long hair, subtly goth). also it mostly comes from queer looking girls and twinks which is of course a massive ego boost im just paranoid and notice it more when i forget to wear a jacket into the store or forget to bring one to work so i dont have one at the store after !!

also im lucky cause theres a bunch of visibly queer people at my work so even tho i have no intention of coming out im pretty sure it would be fine, in addition to more than one of them looking at me with suspicion already. but we wear safety ppe so im covered on that front for now

>>43827191
>idk if that is worth doing a whole ass transition
someone in another thread yesterday called someone babytrans for not reading trans literature. idk if thats a common concept or something other people think, i thought it was about being early on hormones and acting like a naive teen. if its "knowing theory" then i already graduated before starting hrt lol.

i keep flip flopping bw social transition not mattering to me as much as self-mental transition, but is that true, a lie? a cope? autism? its like my friend who says i need irl interaction and not just ol? do i rly? idk maybe..

>>43827730
How to navigate any social situation and achieve success: Be hot

>>43827191
>less body hair growth
>tfw you keep noticing cis girls w significantly hairier arms than u
>they make my chest more sensitive, that feels oddly right
it feels very right when it combines w that chest swelling feeling from other things. like complete

>And then other times i freak out because i feel like i have to get top surgery now :/.
yeah i was worrying the other day that maybe i just have dysmorphia and low t and i should have got on gear and just lifted and my "dysphoria" is actually just about not being able to bench full plates and my self image is related to my condition(mild pectus caranatum). but i really really really really hate body hair and odor

>But then i get scared hrt will work "too well"
i mean thats the plan. its not like its possible to mail fail at 193 cm anyway, but also secret elf-like third-thing is not-a-cope its just cringe to say as a >30 yo adult

>>43827764
alternatively: delusional levels of (h)onfidence

>>43827648
No people do actually regret shit, that's very possible.

My point is that doing HRT, and possibly regretting it is waaaay better than getting to the end of your life and regretting never doing it.

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>>43827482
>I sometimes even think i need(ed) to transition. But then i think "But did i really need to do this? Couldnt i have at least tried sth else first? What if im just misplacing my issues from elsewhere onto this?" or sth else.
yeah yeah i really dont even know. like i dont really "identify" as a grill. at least not always. sometimes i will read greentexts and auto-self-insert as the guy and only notice after. its entirely situational and context dependent tho. but then when people give me the she/her or when my one friend used to "jokingly" tell our team in lobby that im bad at game because im a girl it felt more right than anything, so why do i auto-id as the moid in some stories?

i also noticed another thing. i over-perform masculinity by overcorrecting. like i swear more casually and more than i need to at work, without even waiting for coworkers to do it first to see if we have that rapport or are on the same level.

and i also noticed that for some reason i get louder and say things like dude more if my work crush is in earshot. which makes no fucking sense bc they are a boymoder and my interest in them is zero if they see me as masc, so why the fuck would i do that?? just to mask harder into stealth? i did the same thing to hr when they gave me a minor open to be ambiguously gay instead i almost nearly did a southern accent??? and talked the physical aspect of our work. it was reflexive and instant i was halfway through the sentence before i noticed. why am i so dumb ?~

>>43827794
A said a lot. Not all. Even then, the regret is often caused by a slap in the face of reality they're now experiencing for themselves. Often an inability to stop caring what others thing or a deeply ingrained form of sexism and unrealistic standard of beauty they would expect of other women to even be privileged of male attention. A lot of those behaviors can manifest due to dysphoria but those styles still won't regret transitioning. Anything else can be called a cope but who doesn't in life? Trans folk are just easier to dunk on no different to how gay was a few decades ago.

You sound normal Nona. These all seem like normal things to think. Just be chill, learn to love yourself, and tell anyone who bothers you to fuck right off. Eventually you won't feel different but instead you will just feel like you.

I have a semi large tattoo on my upper bicep and I always forget it's there, out of my eye line. Then weeks or months go by and I see it in the mirror and get a little shock every time. I only have the one and I forget I have it, often. It's like 15 years old. Then after the little shock, I laugh because I forgot I had a tattoo again. So stupid. Then I go weeks and months forgetting again. That's how it will be with your Bobs one day Nona. You said you like your titties and soft skin. Focus on that. Life is always hard and sometimes fun. Try to have some fun and relax.

>>43827946
Youre not making any points. All of those are examples are also just regret.

>>43826363
you like the effects of hrt so keep taking it. You don't have to be trans to take hrt.

>>43827507
yeah but i dont want to like construct a shitty situation for myself with no good solutions when i get there. esp not if it could have been avvoided by doing the correct thing right now.

> Worry less, LIVE more.
i agree, but im terrified of making a wrong decision long term.

>>43827558
do u recognise me from another thread? sorry but im not sure who u are qwq.

>now its over 100 degrees and im gonna need a fucking binder like last week because i cant keep walking around with pointy cones. its fucking over
relatable. the heat wave kinda terrified me like that too... ig i might also have to get a binder eventually. but also i dont wanna cuz they sound uncomfy + iirc they can fuck with the breast shape/growth long term and i still wanna give em the best chance to be sth i want for myself and that esp includes having an ok shape.

>>43827561
i agree. but in my mind i already took the risk.

i started hrt not with the goal of a full transition and then seeing how i feel. but rather to see how i feel abt hrt on its own (instead of just ruminating on it constantly).

i wont regret having started/tried hrt. but unfortunately now im still/even more confused about it.

but i am scared about potentially regretting staying on it for too long if i figure out i dont want it.

8mo are far past the point of "trying it out" in my mind so i 100% feel like i should know by now/reevaluate.

>>43829122
don't wear a binder. get a bralette or sports bra

>>43827730
yeah thats fair, goven what guys i see around me look like a good chunk of them have more "breasts" than me still.

but i kinda obv have a build that should make for a near flat chest. + still scare i myself will somehow develop dysphoria about them.

plus its only been 8mo so im scaared itll become much more than that. (unfortunately my mom is also well endowed so like genetically its an option. one of my sisters is as well (weirdly the other one isnt tho?))

ive had no stares yet (i think) but im glad urs seem mostly positive and that ur work seems chill too <3.

>>43827864
>it felt more right than anything
i wish i had that reaction to getting gendered fem lowkey.

instead i mostly feel nothing when gendered either way. but then sometimes i also imagine people gendering me fem and it feels a little nice.

Still not like earthshatteringly great tho :/. kinda just a lil comfy kinda. but also weirdly only when i (sometimes)
imagined it.

the times it hapened irl so far i mostly did t care if nlt felt a lil odd aboit it.

>>43828014
>You sound normal Nona.
idk. i dont feel trans enough for this shit lol. im not certain i need to/would love to be a woman/on e so much i have to do it.

neither do i hate being male so much that i know ill have to do this to escape.

and meanwhile i keep being extremely anxious about hrt being the right choice to the point it might be an expression of valid concerns.

this doesnt seem normal to me for any kind of flavor of tranny. and if im cis i should prob stop taking the titty pills unless i wanna invite serious regret and actual dysphoria into my life.

> That's how it will be with your Bobs one day Nona.
idk if it will and im scared it wont. and even if it does then id feel stupid and scared i actually hate them, cuz a real tranny should prob be ecstatic about them instead of merely tolerating them.

> You said you like your titties and soft skin.
only flrarely for the titties and the soft skin feels like a delusion vanity given how many other problems hrt might be inviting into my life.

>>43828014
>Just be chill, learn to love yourself
oh also forgot to mention: yeah these two wont probably ever happen lol.

if there are any constants in my life is that i almost always feel on edge/like im on the verge of fucking sth up badly and that i hate myself :/

>>43828120
but im also anxious af about them. does that count for nothing?

plus there is actually a non zero chance i hate having tits. sometimes i like them, sometimes idc and sometimes i feel uneasy about them so kt could genuinely go eother way. so i dont actually like all the effects.

So, you actually do generally like all of the changes, but an impulse keeps brain fucking you and gives you the energy to keep trying to "admit" that actually it's all just faketrans gayfag sexpest-er-y
So mostly your fear is that you actually hate all the things you like and secretly like all the things you hate, and you've just tricked yourself into doing the wrong things backwards style

>>43829169
already have sports bras. and they help a bit, but if it keeps growing they wont suffice forever will they.

>>43829376
thats the fun part. i cant tell for the life of me if you are right about this.

or if i do actually dislike the changes and i keep getting "brainfucked by an impulse" that makes me wanna admit i like them when actually im not certain or at least genuinely concerned i might not.

or its some weird in between mix of these teo options i cant discerne either

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>>43826363
Stop questioning your gender and question if you might be OCD with those thought loops you're having. Anyone in your family show signs?

>>43827558
Nona I don't think anyone will think anything from seeing your pointy cones other than how unfortunate plastic pollution has been for young men hormonally

>>43830357
dont thibk anyone in my family is like this.
and yeah ig atp it might be a possibility. however it usually isnt so bad (i was basically entirely fine the last week). also of i do have ocd then gender is like the primary (or at least most intense) topic in that regard and it has to have been pretty continuously for 7+ years.

but more importantly:
> you might be ocd
doesnt help that much. For one im not sure. But especially it still doesnt answer whether or not i should keep taking the pills/transition.

Wether i do or do not have ocd and whether i have or have not realized that yet i still gotta decide whether to take E or T every day.

unless u meant to imply its trans ocd and im just cis amd should stop. or vice versa "cis ocd" and im just trans and should chill tf out while i keep taking my pills.

>>43829122
>do u recognise me
yes you are gnona the first, for german nona, and because you were the op of that thread and the other one too

>>43829122
>iirc they can fuck with the breast shape/growth
yeah i know everyone just calls them all the same thing i just mean like a compression shirt

>>43829169
yeah i dont want the straps to show is the thing. i made a thread but people werent helpful i think ill try posting in some generals

>>43830397
lol. i just forget they are there and sometimes see them in a window reflection walking into a store and freak out. but like i said its way less than people walking around, its just shocking to see what amount to drastic changes in myself esp in a foreign context like public and not my bathroom everyday.

>>43829279
>(sometimes)
i mean, yeah its not every time. but its like oh wait, me?! yeah i guess that is me, oh wait that IS me. i think it was partly mixed with an oh, you see me that way, but maybe not? still.. and there are other times. like a lot of discords have rooms set pronouns specifically to try it out

>>43830397
>young
haha

>>43827482
you're doing good because you like it. you actually like it, and are afraid you won't in the future. one of those outweighs the other, so keep going. you can still detroon if you want to but statistically speaking, you won't. at least not because you suddenly gain the opposite dysphoria out of fkn nowhere
>>43827864
this is hilarious you're so dumb ily

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>>43826363
word for word & month for month it's me holy shit
my advice 2 u is the only way 2 learn how 2 be urself is 2 take ur good features & go out & use them. there is no "real self" waiting underneath, there is only what u make of urself
also beard shadow is optional. get a good quality set of tweezers & just tweeze, or use a bit of concealer

>>43831561
>yeah i know everyone just calls them all the same thing i just mean like a compression shirt
yeah id prob look into sth like that first as well. Tho do u mean like an explicitly trans/ftm "compression shirt" or like some other item that also has cisgender uses? Is there even a difference?

(Im just confused cuz i only recently learned abt compression shirts in the ftm sense, but apparently they are also a normal clothing item. So idk if these two are literally the same thing or if its just the same/similar name but they are actually structurally different)

>>43831895
> you actually like it, and are afraid you won't in the future.
But do i? There are absolutely points in the post and my other replies that implies i might also not like it.

And even if i do like it:
> one of those outweighs the other
might be true but its not 100% obvious to me either.

> you can still detroon
thats true and also part of why i still sometimes keep going. Its been 8 months i already need a surgery to get a flat chest back lol. So may as well keep going a bit more. But sometimes im still scared ill regret it and think it was obviously wrong at some point (and sometimes think i might already think that)

> statistically speaking, you won't.
true, but i could still be the exception and im scared i might be :c

> not because you suddenly gain the opposite dysphoria out of fkn nowhere
But it wouldnt be out of nowhere, im already uneasy and a lil weirded out by my breast growth right now. In fact being scared that thats a precursor to gender dysphoria about them is precisely one of my main worries.

>>43832655
>word for word & month for month it's me holy shit
damn im sorry :/ cuz like it sucks lol.
glad to hear im not entirely alone tho <3

> there is no "real self" waiting underneath
id tend to say i agree. But im still scared its wrong and it'll turn out i actually just cant deal with transitioning eventho i vaguely want to be someone who can.

Like its appealing to say i can just force trans myself for the simple reason that i want to and have it work out.

But idk if thats true, what if im just really delusional and underneath it all i just have a brain that cant do it.

Like most ppl would agree that cis ppl would freak out when force transitioned. Similarly you can argue that gender dysphoria is caused by having a brain that just cant handle certain gendered body features.

So what if i just have a brain that cant handle this, and my uneasy-ness is hinting at that fact and im just too stupid/delusional/stubborn to realize it in time.

> also beard shadow is optional. get a good quality set of tweezers & just tweeze, or use a bit of concealer
I already use tweezers and still have some. Its really slight to be fair but i still dont like it.

Mostly caused by hairs that are visible but too small to tweeze/below the skin still i think. Tho mayb also just a very slight but persistent discoloration in parts of my face i fear :/

> concealer
Yeah i should look into that but havent figured it out yet properly. All the shades i have feel off lol.

>>43832960
>Is there even a difference?
i have no idea! this board is extremely unhelpful they just want to wallow and crab bucket

>>43832655
>a bit of concealer
any recommendations? im hoping there exists something i can put on before or after spf that is just as easy?

>>43830444
>also of i do have ocd then gender is like the primary
i have ocd too. but i know its just gender. everything is gender. my primary diagnosis is adhd, and my therapist said that adhd makes me procrastinate that gives me performance anxiety which gives me social/general anxiety which makes me a control freak which gives me ocd which makes it harder to focus and i cope with it all autistically with like charts and shit so im audhd, but also this is actually just an emergent symptom of cptsd from the trauma of puberty. my anxiety was so bad i felt borderline schizoid but its so much better now i am practically normal if a little ditzy to cope w it. i just knowingly lean into it like i let my ocd organize my actions in the most efficient manner, so that a trip to the kitchen takes one round and i get all the things in order without having to cross multiple times. it might seem crazy to observers but idc and its harmless.

i just cant slow down. i cant stop fucking thinking. im always going and even like planning out my literal physical steps on the sidewalk. i plan my bathroom breaks so people dont see me going or coming. and its very literally obsessive-compulsive. i will stop on a dime and 180 if someone crosses my path and try again later. im always rushing and trying to combine tasks and never slowing down and then when im stuck with nothing to do but think i freak out. and im so paranoid about things people dont even notice.

i just have to remind myself people are not thinking about me exactly the amount im not thinking of them which is at all. ive been practicing slowing down and enjoying things but i have to use cannabis like a crutch or a get really irritated. but it works and i started listening to music again after not for like years and that kinda helps too even tho its kinda half way between being occupied and not.

>>43829230
>but i kinda obv have a build that should make for a near flat chest.
saaame. and yet...
at certain angles, like straight on with full light it kind a looks like ive just been working out. you can only tell from the side or in motion holding still it makes an illusion and then when you move its like oh yeah those are tits lol. its mostly just the points that give it away so i cant wear my favorite shirts which are the long thin flowy breathable so worn out they are nearly see through with no discernible branding kind and instead i have to wear the new thick full cotton ones with graphics on the front and its hot and they are sticky

>>43829360
>yeah these two wont probably ever happen lol.
idk nona stranger things have happened. you never know what you never know.

>>43831895
>this is hilarious you're so dumb ily
haha uh thanks? me too. =). i do the most convoluted shit for no reason.

thats another very odd one. sometimes my inner monologue tells myself to calm down and its gonna be okay nona(it actually says nona sometimes) but from like a masc pov?

>>43829347
>i dont feel trans enough for this shit lol. im not certain i need to/would love to be a woman
i dont either and maybe dont care about the second. i hate categorization but like i guess i come at gender from an autistic coded standpoint where i think its a bit of a stupid performance but i have to do it to signal correctly to the kind of people i am attracted to or they wont recognize me. when everything boils down i have a lot of the same markers and triggers as a lot of other people here but im also not really ashamed to say openly that my primary reason for transitioning has always been trauma related to getting me away from straight girls with daddy issues who are attracted to tall guys.
>neither do i hate being male so much that i know ill have to do this to escape.
yeah less sure about above than this
>on e so much i have to do it.
much more sure, but not entirely, that the mental effects mean i would do this even if i disliked all the physical effects

>>43826363
>agamp
oh is this new information? is this your exclusive attraction or do you have one for others too?

>>43827482
>Couldnt i have at least tried sth else first?
but did you tho?

>>43827794
the possible regrettable side effects arent even that bad imo tb h. ive done way stupider things that are far more damaging for much worse reasons.

>>43833275
yes cancel the post they jiggle when i walk not just when i hop in the mirror. that was like less than 2 months wtf

>>43833001
>There are absolutely points in the post and my other replies that implies i might also not like it
not nearly enough to matter. cissoids get nervous and uncomfortable about puberty as well, it's a distinct thing from the body horror we experience

>>43826363
kind of in the same situation but pre transition

idk if i'm really trans or want to transition to 'start' a new life

i showed no signs as a child, but rn it's all i think about
i wish i could go back in time and be born a girl and experience life as a girl

i think i would love the effects of hrt, just idk if i ALWAYS want to be a woman
the thing is i'm scared to be an old woman, i don't really know why, i think it's because a lot of old woman are no longer feminine if that makes sense


so in the end i'm just scared that i want to transition because i love women so muchµ

sorry for the rant it has not a lot to do with your post but i had to get it out of my head

>>43833868
nta but being an old(er) estrogenized individual is better than being an older man.
t. 35+ yo

>>43833292
>>agamp
>oh is this new information? is this your exclusive attraction or do you have one for others too?
Im being a bit facetious desu. I dont literally mean agamp in the "i get horny when i think about being a trans woman way" but more as a self deprecating way to indicate that, weirdly, sometimes it feels more important/appealing to me to live as transfem than just female.

I kinda didnt really mean it in a sexual way lol. Or at least not nearly exclusively.

> but did you tho?
Thats the problem, it feels like i didnt. Like i tried minor stuff pre hrt (shaving, coming out to just a very few people and having them use other pronouns n stuff, some private crossdressing, growing my hair out).

But it feels like mayb it wasnt enough. Growing our hair and shaving are also totally normal cis guy things to do. And the other stuff was kinda rare-er and super private (i basically use different pronouns with just one person). And it was still inconclusive as well.

Like, not that id do it or recommend it, but if i did RLE or some shit. Or like dress up as a girl for halloween or come out and be gendered/known as female from a larger group or sth like that more public & drastic.

Then maybe id have a better idea on how i feel, and hell it might have even sufficed.

Like instead it sometimes fells like i just sleepwalked my way into hrt (which is still on the more drastic end of gender fuckery when you consider the entire spectrum in total), without really checking how i feel with more minor things first.

And it makes me scared that i just "missed something" since i didnt experiment beforehand as much as i maybe should have or could have.

>>43833601
Well but idk if i even have dysphoria the other way so i wouldnt know if it is or not.

Also why do you say its not enough to matter? It can get pretty distressing to me desu. And it does feel like i have a significant number of concerns.

But then again the problem is that idk if im distressed by what i actually have going on rn, or more just by the thought of "oh fuck what if i were to become distressed by this, that would be really bad".

Also
> cissoids get nervous and uncomfortable about puberty as well
True, but its different, for them it happens so young they cant even conceive of having a choice. I have a choice, like im actively doing this to myself.

So i feel like the bar of confidence in regard to how likely i think itll be a positive for me in the end is significantly higher.

And im not certain itll be a positive for me in the end and in the meantime im nervous and uncomfortable about it which also isnt a great sign.

How does that not add up to "wait maybe this IS a mistake"?

>>43833868
>sorry for the rant it has not a lot to do with your post but i had to get it out of my head
Np, its fine, sorry you are going thru the same stuff rn, it really does suck :/

Also ik i replied to >>43826551 already but i forgot to mention:
> chronic questioner
might be the most accurate description of me to date lol.

>>43833001
um wtf my post deleted itself
(nine)

>>43836461
sorry not for you i just hit post numbers to bring up quick reply

>>43836461
fuck i dont even know what button i hit

>>43833601
>cissoids get nervous and uncomfortable about puberty as well,
true

>>43833868
>i showed no signs as a child,
u sure?

>i'm scared to be an old woman
people always ask if scared to age but im not worried about being a wizard w a beard as much as the process of aging itself.

>i want to transition because i love women so muchµ
very gay(endearing)

>>43833904
true

>>43834100
>Im being a bit facetious desu. I
yeah same. well not so much about agp but kinda bout gamp. idk im faceblind and trannyblind and i like some clocky features on myself and others. also bi and becoming increasingly more attracted to twinks.

idk i just ask because it seems like a topic you dont think about or actively avoid in a prudish way the suggests some kind of repressing or maybe asexuality?

>i tried minor stuff pre hrt (shaving, coming out
no i meant treating your symptoms with ways other than transition? like ssris for depression or diet and exercise? hitting the gym and deleting facebook? medicating adhd/ocd? cbt/dbt?

i ask this one because i tried it all and nothing worked, i came to the conclusion that i didnt have an inherent "chemical inbalance" but that my "chemical inbalance" was a result of environmental factors. I changed my environs, domestic living, job, etc and my depression changed a lot. but not everything was fixed i was just empty, very anhedonic, unmotivated. but i didnt want to kms anymore.

i get worried bc i hear people say "this is what normal people feel like all the time" when they get adderall for their adhd, and as person trained in pharamacology, who also has adhd, who also was prescribed stimulants, im like no lmao you are just high on meth. so many people dont know they are high on stimulants when they were but a dude on coke is the most obviously high person in the universe and adhd meds are exactly the same afa effects.

so now im worried im falling for the "this is what normal people feel like" but for estrogen and i have to try t cause maybe i just have low primary hormones in general
but i dont wanna.

>>43834100

>>43834123
>i feel like the bar of confidence in regard to how likely i think itll be a positive for me in the end is significantly higher.
yeah i think thats the main problem. i think you just want a level of confidence that people dont generally get and most people are so at their last resort that they just dont care about the consequences, which is of course a good thing for you, and not an indication that you are less trans

>Like instead it sometimes fells like i just sleepwalked my way into
story of my life in general

>>43836568
> idk i just ask because it seems like a topic you dont think about or actively avoid in a prudish way the suggests some kind of repressing or maybe asexuality?
Honestly idk. Might be some flavor of ace. Im as unsure about my sexuality as i am about my gender kinda. I just dont care about my sexuality lowkey.

Altho, my yearning for one (which has usually been near zero) has increased a lil on hrt. And i do think that whatever relationship i might want (if any) id prefer to be closer to a gf than a bf lol.

> no i meant treating your symptoms with ways other than transition?
Not really lol. Especially not with any medication. I think one of the main things that made me try was that i felt like shit eventho my life was kinda ok. Like it wasnt great, but i prob shouldnt have felt as shit as i did.

The worst problem i had was loneliness/not many friends or going outside. But i felt like even there i shouldnt have been bothered by that to such a degree + It felt more like a general hopelessness and idk if that makes sense to come from loneliness and instead i thought it was more akin to "wait fuck i dont actually see a future i want or a way to be happy with myself myself as a guy, but maybe i do as not a guy/a tranny/a girl".

>>43836576
>yeah i think thats the main problem. i think you just want a level of confidence that people dont generally get
Maybe, but i partially also feel like the amount of confidence i want isnt entirely unwarranted given how few indications i actually have of benefiting from this.

But it depends, ive also before said id only be happy if god descended from heaven and personally promised me im trans and will be better of taking estrogen. And i was only being a lil hyperbolic.

> most people are so at their last resort that they just dont care about the consequences
Yeah, i kinda thought i had arrived there too. But now i think i might have mistook what i thought as being "at my last resort" as just being how life is anyways and ill have to deal with it, cuz i dont feel confident enough to kms either.

> which is of course a good thing for you, and not an indication that you are less trans
Ik its a good thing, but sometimes i do wish i was in a "transition or die" situation (metaphorically or literally) instead cuz itd make things easier even if also a lot more shit.

And yeah ik it doesnt technically make me less trans, but it still feels like it does sometimes lol. Or at least that conversely, if i were like that id be more trans.

>>43837171
>Not really lol.
ok then yeah that makes sense. i was actually surprisingly normal for a 4channer despite getting in a ton of trouble as a teen. like i had friends and went to parties and had multiple gfs and everything and then everything went to shit in junior college and i basically turned myself into an incel neet, while still having a gf lol. then when we broke up i didnt go outside for a decade except to get groceries. i also tried lots of drugs and psychedelics and research chemicals. like ive probly done over 100 diff drugs and most of them totally safely with tests and everything. i guess i just have a wide spectrum of experience to draw on so i can be way more sure that i dont really have alternatives. my parents, who totally suck but were doing their best, just threw money at the problem, but not like giving me stuff and letting me fuck off, but by paying specialists to find out whats wrong with me even tho the whole time it was society not me that was the problem. and the entire focus of that endeavor was to fix my grades so i could get a degree and job but it turns out all i need to be able to hold a job is weekly estrogen injections so jokes on them lol.

but i still relate to you all heavy. like im old oldfag i was here in the beginning

>>43837328
>Maybe
idk i rly think imposter syndrome is equally as common as experiencing intended/desired effects.

>>43837328
>cuz i dont feel confident enough to kms either.
yeah im a coward and not confident either especially these days. when i was depressed it would have been impulse if i ever did and im not that impulsive in that way. "kms" would just be wallowing in despair anorexia and polydrug abuse until i hopefully wither away and stop existing not something so dramatic. its more like giving up and i did that already and it didnt work and i didnt die at 27 like all the famous musicians instead im still here so i guess idk ill just cope the best i can. weed and e is way better life than alcohol

>>43836544
>u sure?
idk, i've been looking for signs but there were no huge signs like trying to cut my balls, and the 'signs' that i have are not huge and maybe i tried to interpret them as signs

>people always ask if scared to age but im not worried about being a wizard w a beard as much as the process of aging itself.
my problem is that i think it's cool to be an old man with a long beard, but i have difficulties to project me into this body and don't know if i will have dysphoria, because i have difficulties projecting myself, idk if it makes sense?
but i will have dysphoria because i have right now with less masculine features (don't have beard i shave and not a full body of hair)
it makes no sense i guess

>>43837413
>like i had friends and went to parties and had multiple gfs and everything
Yeah no i did none of that lol. I had a couple of friends at some points but very few usually and i spent a good number of years with basically just a single non family contact/friend.

> when we broke up i didnt go outside for a decade except to get groceries
This is what most of my life was like since puberty basically. Where i only went out to stuff my parents forced me to do as well as school/university (and then groceries in uni too).

Hell its kinda what my life is still like lol. Altho weirdly i did do a few more things now after starting estrogen lol. Nothing impressive, but given my track record its insane i ever went out to socialize of my own will at all.

Also less impressively but still notable: I kinda started postin online and talking to more ppl there too. Like i was even super afraid of that before kinda and barely did it. Now its kinda weirdly np to me anymore.

> idk i rly think imposter syndrome is equally as common as experiencing intended/desired effects.
wdym?

>>43833868
>i wish i could go back in time and be born a girl and experience life as a girl
Despite all my unsureness about what im doing rn i tend to get that a lot too desu.

Like i do think id be better off if i got to be a girl for a significant portion of my life *already* (whether that be like by birth, which is a lil hard to imagine, or a young transition which is a lil easier). Like specifically getting to experience youth like that.

Its weird to be unsure whether or not staying on estrogen is a good idea and if u even want to be a woman and can deal with the effects of E. While at the same time being somewhat certain my life would be better if i just had already been a girl/already went thru female puberty and was done with it.

Maybe ist just the fantasy of being someone who *can* and has handled female puberty/estrogen exposure as well as a female social role and adjusted to it. Since im precisely scared about not being someone or being able to become someone like that rn.

> thing is i'm scared to be an old woman
Im kinda not, eventho i think i may have used to be at some point.

Now im scared of aging in general (which also makes me fear taking E is just some peter pan syndrome induced bs). But while im not repulsed by aging male, i do think older women are cool/cooler/cool too. So i might prefer it over aging male i think.

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>>43837686
>Hell its kinda what my life is still like lol.
yeah the only thing i do now is go to thrift stores and wander around with my headphones in listening to podcasts and looking for cute rustic trinkets. i got a little ceramic bowl with roses and leaves on it and inlaid gold for a dollar and it has a lid so i can use it as an ashtray for and for my pipe screens and then cover them so the ash doesnt fly around with the fan going on max since its summer and very hot and its responsible to use less ac. i practice talking to cashiers but other than that i only talk to my family that i live with maybe once a week and my mom once every couple months and my one friend maybe twice a year. everything else is just work.

>>43837686
>I kinda started postin online and talking to more ppl there too
i ONLY post on imageboards and cause its anon and i actually hate 4chan idk why i post here because i know its a cia honeypot and my posts are going directly into my handlers profile

>>43837686
>wdym?
trans girls thinking they arent real women is like the number one negative experience outside direct things like dysphoria or personal interactions they post about early transition. its easily the most common thing. i think its basically just all socialization about men being predators making you feel like an invader

>>43839023
it sounds like you are just afraid of "second" puberty the same way people are afraid of the first one. idk im strongly resistant to change in general but get used to everything eventually with time. i guess i also have the benefit of committing really hard when i do make a decision
>i do think id be better off if i got to be a gir... *already*
>unsure whether or not staying on estrogen is a good idea
>my life would be better if i just had already been a girl
ok but what about now?

what about a different framing, instead of better, would it be worse? are you unsure if it would be worse? can you commit to saying it would definitely be worse? worse then how things currently are? at your current trajectory can you guarantee things will be worse/better/same if you change nothing/start E/stay on E/stop after a year/two/three etc will it be worse tomorrow? next year? 5 years? 10? what relations are your fearful unwanted boobs going to ruin? which coveted jobs are they preventing you from getting? what big life changes are they going to hold you back from making that you were definitely going to make if you didnt instead tragically trick yourself into taking the girl juice?

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>>43826363
these just aren't cis man thoughts nona. everyone itt is saying you're worrying too much and they're right

>>43841258
>it sounds like you are just afraid of "second" puberty the same way people are afraid of the first one.
Idk, maybe, but it feels like it should be different since this is second puberty and like entirely voluntary lol.

> idk im strongly resistant to change in general
Same, but i dont have the benefit of being sure i can get used to everything in time/im very afraid of not getting used to second puberty.

And especially am not someone who can commit to decisions well lol.

> what about a different framing, instead of better, would it be worse?
If you mean "would it be worse staying on E than not" then the answer is, idk. I think not, like thats the reason i started, that i couldnt imagine my life becoming worse if i was a woman, but it might occasionally be better sometimes.

> what relations are your fearful unwanted boobs going to ruin? which coveted jobs are they preventing you from getting? what big life changes are they going to hold you back from making that you were definitely going to make if you didnt instead tragically trick yourself into taking the girl juice?
None probably, none maybe, none lol.

Im less afraid of them in that way. its more that im afraid that like, i just cant get used to them. Like that i either develop dysphoria about them or just think they are annoying etc or will perpetually be embarrassed/annoyed by them cuz i think they look bad.

>>43841530
Ok maybe not cis man, but i still could be some kind of trans and have it be a bad decision to have started E/grown boobs.

Also idk, the positive effects/attitudes from the post are kinda rare sometimes. So maybe i really am just deluding myself about those?

And the worrying bits are not like entirely unwarranted, so idk what if im cis but just managed to suppress the good cisgender insticts that should stop me from starting hrt? And my worries are indeed a precursor to developing honest to god dysphoria about this stuff?

>>43833094
i use the maybelline magic eraser cause it's easy and cheap but maybe it's better 2 go to a store & get colourmatched lol

>>43842244
>but i dont have the benefit of being sure i can get used to everything in time
i wasnt for a long long time. i just noticed it recently because of clothing textures. like a change in denim thickness in pants or the lining of a new jacket that is different than my old one trigger the shit out of my autism so i just wear things until they fall apart and then cry about it and am depressed for months. its only now in my old age that i have been able to do that two or three times with things like jackets that i realize that i will feel the same way about the new one that i currently hate 10 years in the future when it becomes the familiar old one and coming apart at the seams from over wear.

committing is about data. if you want to be sure you have to commit so you can get correct data. if you fuck around and half ass it then the data is useless.

>annoyed by them cuz i think they look bad.
oh yeah so if you could be sure they would be have perfect shape and look great all the time you wouldnt be worried? thats definitely never crosses the mind of cis girls hahaha

>>43842244
>i couldnt imagine my life becoming worse if i was a woman, but it might occasionally be better sometimes.
i mean that is pretty definitive. if you asked me thats an accurate description of what i might say. i really dont think you have a different outlook then the rest of us you just approach it differently, with more apprehension, or even just centering common apprehensions more.

>>43842518
i will buy this tomorrow it will be my first makeup thank you!
>maybe it's better 2 go to a store & get colourmatched lol
ha! i will not be talking to people but i will go in person and do it myself. i can usually sneak into the cosmetic isle when no one is around since i shop at odd hours. i usually run through it glancing for a specific product while coming up with things to say about how im shopping for my nonexistent gf, a story that my recent appearance surely makes less believable

>>43842796
>if you could be sure they would be have perfect shape and look great all the time you wouldnt be worried?
Idk i might be less worried. But id still be worried i just personally couldnt deal with having boobs cuz my brain just cant handle it/i might think they are too cumbersome/i get dysphoria or sth.

> thats definitely never crosses the mind of cis girls hahaha
wdym? i think u are being sarcastic here or sth but i cant tell rn.

> i mean that is pretty definitive
idk if i still feel like that tho. Thats what i felt pre-hrt which is part of why i ended up trying E and thinking i might be trans.

Altho while im no longer sure its true. I also dont really see why it wouldnt be. Like, if you could guarantee me i can deal with being a woman socially, and that i wont freak tf out over boobs and can get used to them or even like them.

Then i dont really see a reason why it could be worse and it might just be a lil better. But idk :c.

> i really dont think you have a different outlook then the rest of us
Idk, u might be right, but i still cant help but think im not anything like real trannies. I dont have dysphoria and im not certain i want to or need to be a woman.

It feels like im doing all of this on some stupid whim that i wasnt even quite sure of. Which in turn makes it feel like the floor will fall out from under me at some point soon and i realize how fucking stupid i was and what a giant mistake i made because apparently i cant tell for the life of me what i want or what i am.

I do kinda wish i was more of a normal tranny tho lol. At least id know what to do kinda.

>>43826363
yet another "i could literally have written this myself"poster checking in. it's nice to see everyone being supportive at least

>>43842944
And what do u do about it?

Like ts sucks, i have thoughts that seem to indicate taking E is a good or even great or necessary thing.

But then i also have immense anxiety about it and thoughts that indicate it may be a massive mistake.

How do u deal with that? Like which thoughts and feelings do i even believe nvm follow through on.

s fine if u dont have anything to say about that tho, cuz idk what to do either and ive been like this for half a year now :C.

>>43842930
>sarcastic
obviously yes. cis women dislike aspects of having boobs sometimes and they absolutely worry about shape and size and all the things we worry about

>>43844109
Nobody is gonna be able to tell you how to live your life. And you should be suspicious of anyone who says they have your answers for you. My advice would be to very carefully consider the things that you value, that matter to you. Exclude the thoughts and expectations of all others, and very seriously ponder the questions that you are having, in the context of your values and what you believe should and should not be done. Then, do what you've determined should be done *for you*.
>t. unconsciously repped for 20 years, started hrt two years ago and have become a genuine human being in that time

>>43844200
fair enough, and maybe sometimes some of my issues are just this.

But definitely not all of them. Also, its maybe unfair kinda, but i do feel like that if i was trans i need to necessarily have a different (and better) relationship with my boobs than cis women have.

I cant just go "well this is just the body i have" and accept it or whatever, like a cis woman could.

Cuz its fucking not, i knowingly and actively chemically altered mine. Demanding that i be certain the changes this actually induces are something i want is not that unreasonable in that case i feel like.

>>43844924
you seem to be wanting it to be perfect, just because you chose it? but that's not how it works, the reason to choose it is simply because it's better

>>43845026
I dont need perfection, but i need either enough certainty that it will be better or enough desperation to stick to it.

I used to have the latter and a small amount of the former. Now i have neither anymore.

The certainty disappeared once i started freaking out/feeling weird over growing breasts.

And the desperation disappeared when the desires that made me start ts in the first place kinda ebbed. That and because i still feel like shit, if not more shit, than pre hrt. Makes me think life just sucks either way, so why bother doing the objectively harder thing that (statistically) is likely to be wrong (most ppl are cis).

> because you chose it?
Not perfect, but yeah this obviously puts some pressure on me to justify my decision, at least to myself. If i do sth for literally no reason i would be rightfully called crazy.

> the reason to choose it is simply because it's better
That is kinda a fair point tho. Excluding breast growth (which im conflicted about), i like basically all the effects of E, and i like none of the effects of T.

>>43845139
>most ppl are cis
most people who start hrt don't regret it. you might, but if we're talking statistics that's the more unlikely outcome by far. bayesianly speaking though it's less unlikely given everything you've said

>If i do sth for literally no reason i would be rightfully called crazy.
you clearly have a reason though, you're just freaking out (maybe rightfully but probably not)

being conflicted about breast growth is understandable I guess. just know that it is something cis women experience so it doesn't disqualify you from being trans. idk much about it but some people try to do hrt without breast growth, maybe that's something you can look into? take that with a grain of salt though since I'm uneducated on the matter.

bottom line is, given your situation you don't need to come to a conclusion right now. you can detroon later if your fear of sudden reverse dysphoria comes to pass (but I'd gladly bet $10000 it doesn't)

>>43845272
>most people who start hrt don't regret it.
Fair enough, i dont even regret trying/starting. Its more so i fear regret from staying on it for too long if i do end up realizing it was a mistake.

> you clearly have a reason though
kinda, kinda not. From one point of view i dont:
- Im not sure i have dysphoria
- Im not sure how much id even want to be a woman
- Im not sure i can deal with having breasts

And from another i do:
- Sometimes hrt makes me feel a lot better about myself, like sometimes i like now what i look like for the first time in my life.
- Sometimes i feel weirdly confident
- I started taking pictures of myself sometimes cuz i like what i look like, this has never happened before hrt
- I do sometimes still think id prefer being female over male or get envious of women

> maybe that's something you can look into?
Maybe, i have looked into it a lil, but its basically DIY only iirc and works only somewhat ok. Id be a lil scared tho of permanently stunting my breast growth chemically if i do it. But conversely im also afraid of doing it too late and ending up with breasts that are bigger than what i wanted :/

I kinda just wish i could magically become extremely happy with having boobs so i can be done with ts lol.

> you don't need to come to a conclusion right now.
But it feels like i do. Even detrooning is easier if my boobs havent grown as much yet which means i need to know if i wanna stop ASAP.

> you can detroon later if your fear of sudden reverse dysphoria comes to pass
Fair enough, i do also sometimes think "well i already need a surgery for a flat chest now, and detransition is easier than transition, so fuck it lets keep going a bit more and see how i feel". But im also deeply afraid that this might get me into a deeply uncomfortable situation if i discover i am truly cis/hate tits and fucked myself over :C.

> but I'd gladly bet $10000 it doesn't
I wish i was as certain im trans as some other people seem to be lol

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>>43826363

>>43845856
hey, I'm not certain I'm trans as much as I'm just certain I'd hate going off hrt. it's that simple

>>43845878
>>43842944
>>43832655
>>43826420
Where do u people that relate to this keep coming from.

Stop it, i wanna be pretend im uniquely fucked up about gender and wallow in my own misery >:c

But also please fucking tell me how u deal with it cuz its hell and idk what to do and constantly feel like, whatever i do, it will be wrong :C

>>43846007
Ik its that simple. Unfortunately i dont even know if id hate going off of hrt, i wish i did.

Sometimes i see really almost no reason not to take it. Other times im freaking out it might be a massive mistake, its just tiring.

>>43842930
>i think u are being sarcastic here or sth but i cant tell rn.
yeah lol im just tease

>>43844924
>if you could guarantee me i can deal with being a woman socially
you have to go outside for that!

>if i was trans i need to necessarily have a different relationship<worse> with my <body> than cis women have.
ftfy
>I cant just go "well this is just the body i have"
why not. i know its hard. but cis women have to fight against cosmetic advertising from birth. any idea how common eating disorders are?

>>43844924
>i knowingly and actively chemically altered mine.
ah yes the naturalistic fallacy. nightshade is good for food and hydrogen dioxide is chemicals!!

but i was a transhumanist before a trans. the only reason i dont is because its gatekept financially. dont you think its strange that your body naturally responds to exogenous estrogen? and what about all those secondary plant metabolites that somehow have effects on your brain? almost like men and women and even plants and animals are evolutionarily related? like part of the same family even... maybe you and your environment are not separate objectes to the extent or in the ways you imagine them to be??

>>43845139
>the desires that made me start ts in the first place kinda ebbed
yeah i feel similar. im starting to forget why i started. i try to hold on to the feeling but its fading away. im not really sure what is different and whats just normal now though so i am super scared to stop like a crazy who wont stop meds cause they know it will make an episode.

maybe make other changes? get something to do throughout the day that takes up mental space? i still think about trooning all the time like its a little secret and i even think of it at really awkward times in public i look around and think "oh yeah i forgot im girl and oh yeah they dont know". but its not the only only thing i think about. sometimes i do other stuff for a couple hours before remembering even.

since i made other changes the data is mixed and i cant properly separate good outcomes from changes so i will just have to keep all the changes. thankfully they were all healthy habits that contribute to me feeling better. but things are complex and the changes support eachother, and im not pulling out any jenga blocks today.

>>43845856
>>43845856
>- Im not sure i have dysphoria
>- Im not sure how much id even want to be a woman
hey outside nonbinary specifically have you looked into agender or genderfluid?

idk why i didnt think of this before but i id'd as agender before nonbinary, even tho i think one is under the other idr, and i think i might be seasonally genderfluid too. like dyphoria and fem gets way stronger in winter every year. i just dont really think about it cause its fluid is at least twice as cringe as nb, and again for a full adult, and its complicated but it does explain why i feel super comfortable presenting masc in some situations or more so on some days like literally zero dysphoria and not even masking. and sometimes related habits will persist for months and months at a time and then just flip on a dime for no reason. iirc its even happened on the scale of years too.

>And from another i do:
this all sounds worth. like you want it to be "all the time" instead of "sometimes" but for me sometimes is worth. thats enough for confidence for me. 1/10 hours of the day i am weirdly confident and like how i look but i have to have gyno(that i dont like)? ok deal

>>43845856
>Id be a lil scared tho of permanently stunting
i think contemplating raloxifene is pretty universal but its an absolute no for me. im way more worried about the possible permanent brain effects or organ cancers. i wont even take spiro. but im very averse to drugs that do not have a 1:1 classical direct effect in general.

>well i already need a surgery
i think we need more data. i said before people claim if you stop early, as in 1-2 years, it mostly disappears. i think they even prescribe raloxifene as a reverser for cis basedboys? you could look into gyno treatment in general, since its a hormone disorder. i think a lot of people have success wout surgery and that is for drastic cases. unless you have the mental block of needing an absolutely flat chest, but i know i looked like a holocaust victim when you could see my upper ribs through my nonexistent pecs even over my nipples.

>>43846007
same lol, except im just as certain that means i am trans and i dont really care which variety as long as im holding back the damage from test i can figure out which label later

>>43847998
>ftfy
wdym? is that related to what i wrote or are u just taking the opportunity to vent about how being trans sucks?

> why not
because of what i wrote after that. Cis people get to do the whole "it is what it is" spiel cuz they were not nearly as actively involved in what their body ended up as.

Like i cant really "it is what it is" my potential dislike about a body part that i knowingly grew and would not have appeared without my intervention.

> ah yes the naturalistic fallacy.
Idk, maybe sometimes, but for me its more about the fact that im actively choosing sth instead of just having something happen due to inaction.

It feels like when actively choosing something i require a higher standard of being sure its a good idea since its kinda my responsibility to do that because i initiated it.

whereas if sth happens due to inaction it feels partially like its juts not my fault/more out of my control.

>>43848251
not really? I mean mayb agender fits, and fluid ig kinda but only to the extent that i care more or less about being female (i never really actively desire masculinity).

> this all sounds worth. like you want it to be "all the time" instead of "sometimes" but for me sometimes is worth. thats enough for confidence for me. 1/10 hours of the day i am weirdly confident and like how i look but i have to have gyno(that i dont like)? ok deal
I wish i was like that, instead i spend the other hours of the day wondering if i just faked the positive parts or if they were actually that good or if they are even worth it :/

>>43848265
>im way more worried about the possible permanent brain effects or organ cancers.
Ah ok then im even less intrigued lol.

> unless you have the mental block of needing an absolutely flat chest
i both do and do not. When i consider detransing then yes i think i want it flat.

But when i like, neutrally consider if id prefer a flat chest or boobs. I dont really have a good reason to prefer a flat chest? beyond it being a bit less cumbersome and less conspicuous in public.

Like i dont think i have an active desire for a flat/male chest. Where as sometimes (rarely tho) have some desire for a non flat chest/female chest.

I think a fully flat chest is just appealing because it feels more "neutral" than boobs. And also its because what i started with pre hrt.