>If gender roles did not exist, then every one would voluntarily and happily conform to cissexist norms (even though these would no longer exist)Why do TERFs expect us to take their ideology seriously?
You wouldn't say this unless on some level you realized there's truth in my evaluation. At least I'm making you think. You are too brainwashed to be rescued, but at least part of your brain still functions and others reading this might be saved from falling prey to the same castration cult you did.
>>43861977I have no idea what you’re talking about. None of this appears to have any thing at all with my post and none of this makes much sense; it’s all perfectly grammatical, but I feel like I’m missing a great deal of context here.One of the weirdest things about TERFs is that you will often respond to reasoned critiques or questions about your ideology with bizarre outbursts like this. You’re either unwilling or unable to participate in discourse in a productive or even in an intelligible way. Why is that?
>>43861977You're so gross lmao
>>43861942>taking reactionaries at their wordhere's your problem"gender abolition" to these people is a code word for "abolish trannies"
>>43862044>I have no idea what you’re talking about.Trannies can't argue in good faith. No sense wasting time in someone who doesn't really want to be honest with me and just wants to play freaky mind games to get me to submit to their ideology. I won't. Ever! It makes you seethe :)
>>43862075This is not news to me.
>>43861977>castrationlol no, my dick still works
>>43862075Nobody would want to transition if men and women could do whatever they want and have sex with whomever they wanted without being shamed or it. We live in an ultra-restrictive de-sexualized society.
>>43861977>dysphoria doesn't exist and everyone who claims to have it is just a big stupid idiot baby who doesn't understand their own feelings duhhh tranny don't you see i'm saving you from doing the thing you want to do because i know you better than you know yourself??
>>43862097The projection levels are off the fucking charts
>>43862097>freaky mind gamesthey play that with each other, consensually, its called hypnokink and all the cool girls are doing it
>>43862097post midface
>>43862117>Nobody would want to transition if men and women could do whatever they want and have sex with whomever they wanted without being shamed or it.Prove it.
>>43862118>dysphoria doesn't exist glad you could see things my wayit's ok to be gender non conforming without self castration
>>43862117>whatever they wantfor instance chemical castration
>>43861977Gender dysphoria is unrelated to the new definition of "gender" that feminists push as a synonym for sexist stereotypes. In a hypothetical world where such stereotypes were eliminated or even reversed it still wouldn't do anything to alleviate the discomfort trans people feel about their bodies' sex characteristics.Its really dishonest that pretty much everyone who pushes this new definition claims to want to "abolish" it, when they could start by just talking like a normal person. Just say you want to get rid of sexism instead of this intellectually dishonest obscurantism.
>>43862152Ooooh if I could tell you to die I would but I can't so please have a good day instead
>>43862152>it's ok to be gender non conforming without self castrationWhy don’t you go ahead and explain what you think that this has to do with anything? Go ahead, I’m listening.
>>43862126>>43862138>>43862144it's a bot
>>43862117>Nobody would want to transition if men and women could do whatever they want and have sex with whomever they wanted without being shamed or it.i am immune to shame (source: extreme autism) and still transitioned. im extremely GNC
>>43862152i think if you had a real point to make you wouldn't need to facetiously pretend my mocking you was a genuine statement like we're kids on the school playground
>>43862117>you should be able to do whatever you want whether you’re a man or a woman>except use cross sex hormones or cosmetic surgery to look more like the opposite sex, that is… le bad
>>43862152>it's ok to be gender non conforming without self castrationexactly! thats what all my trans and queer friends think too :) lots of them are GNC and with intact genitals too!
>>43862189all you are gonna do is dogpile and personally attack meyou aren't here to learn, you are here to ensure tyrannical compliance with your castration religion it's not like if I say the right thing you will agree and stop taking hrt, there's no use
no middace = no (you), hon
>>43862226are you afraid of anonymous replies on the internet? it's not like i bite. and who's to say i'm not here to learn? i find it quite valuable to understand how and why people disagree with me. i'm not sure why getting me to stop hrt has to be the end goal, as if my usage of hrt has any relevance to your life to speak of. let's just be two people who disagree and want to understand why we disagree with each other.
>>43862117>If men and women could do whatever they want, they would only do and want to do what I approve of>>43862226>it's not like if I say the right thing you will agree and stop taking hrt, there's no useIt sounds like the one who is here to “ensure … compliance” with their demands is you, nona.
>>43862117>if men and women could do whatever they wantHow can you be as confident as you appear to be that this wouldn’t include undergoing treatments to change their sexual characteristics? What are the epistemic grounds for this belief?
>>43861942Seriously. Are you dumb? She means that you can dress and look as you want without having to try to "become the opposite sex" if you're not a traditionally "masculine" man or "feminine" woman. How is this conforming to the norms of "gender"?
>>43862318How can you be as confident as you appear to be that you know what OOP means? Did she tell you that?
>>43861942What do you mean by "cissexist norms"? The recognition that you are not the sex you desire to be?
>>43862097I do want to be honest with you. I don’t want to “play … mind games”, “freaky” or not. I don’t want to “get [you] to submit to [my] ideology”. The one who is arguing in bad faith here is you, nona.
>>43862353I know the tenets of her ideology, duh
Evil gender norms is when male and female people do things thousands of years of evolution conditioned them to do
>>43862365>The recognition that you are not the sex you desire to be?More bad faith from a TERF. In this case, a strawman.By “cissexist norms” I mean specifically “expectations or demands that one be cissexual” (“cissexual” means “not transsexual” btw). And by “transsexual” I mean “(of a person) undergoing or having undergone treatments to change one’s sexual characteristics to those typically occurring chiefly in members of the sex other than one’s natal one”.In other words, by “cissexist norms” I mean specifically “expectations or demands that one abstain from undergoing treatments to change one’s sexual characteristics to those typically occurring chiefly in members of the sex other than one’s natal one”.I don’t intend “cissexist norms” to be understood to mean anything other than this.
>>43862161They use esoteric language in order to shield their ideology from scrutiny. (See also “gender ideology”, a term with no clear or consistent meaning.)
>>43861942>if we abolish genderIs there a word for when you deny a possible thing (transitioning) and offer an impossible thing (gender abolition in a sexually dimorphic species) as an alternative?
>>43862102ITT> We'll just invite that you said that and pretend you said something else, that'll show these timmyss who's got the biggest pussy
>>43862580Nirvana fallacy
>>43862609Every argument with TERFs ever
>>43862627Specifically the perfect solution fallacy
>>43862486I see. You're just demented and evil. A pusher that want others to suffer what you suffer and undergo the damaging procedures you had instead of really healing. It's like those religious freaks self-flagellating, but who will swear that religion made them happy and fulfilled and more people should be converted to their religion.
>>43862681More completely insane word salad from a TERF. Typical. And yet you freaks insist that *we’re* the ones who “can’t argue in good faith”.
>>43862044>None of this appears to have any thing at all with my post and none of this makes much sense; it’s all perfectly grammatical, but I feel like I’m missing a great deal of context here.thats how you know its (probably) a bot
>>43862740No, I’m pretty sure it’s a human being who is writing these replies. I seriously doubt that a bot would be able to replicate this particular flavour of schizophrenia.
By "gender" they mean pushing men to be more "masculine" and women to be more "feminine". Not abolishing the natural sexual differences/sex dimorphism, this is really impossible and they're not advocating for this.
>>43862760there's neglegible difference between ai hallucinations and schizophrenia
>>43862830Their replies are too original to be LLM output in my opinion. Let’s agree to disagree
>>43861977>You wouldn’t make a post pointing out that my ideology is incoherent if you didn’t privately agree with it!Are you actually retarded?
It is so funny that you guys call males amabile (friendly, kind, gentle, sweet) and females afabile (soft, gracious, benign, debonair)
>>43862856>Let’s agree to disagreefair faireither way, doubly so there's neglegible difference between oop's schizobabble and an ai bot
>>43862909The difference is that human beings can vote and influence public policy that affects transsexuals in other ways, such as by forming advocacy groups (e. g., the WHRC) and pressuring governments to pass anti-trans legislationThe most that LLMs can do is spread harmful ideologies—which, to be clear, is still harmful, but at least they can’t vote or pressure governments
>>43862967im feeling pressure in my ass, what should i do about it
>>43862990Fart. Shit, even.
>>43861977You are not making any sense, and you are lying while being fully aware of that fact. If you were forcibly transitioned you would feel how we feel before receiving gender affirming care. Losing all the things about what you value about your own body. This destroys terfs meme ideology which is just watered down fascist rhetoric
>>43863000but ive been holding it for 10 years, it is like a son to me
>>43861942Logic is partriarchy chud. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTl6iwsfsk
>>43862063theyfabanon continues to be a really cool person
>>43862117but what I want to do is transitionYou'd probably see more people transition if there wasn't any judgment or worry about finding partners.
>>43863068No, you silly TIM, you don’t get it. You see, your desire to change your sex is caused exclusively by cultural expectations that you behave in particular ways, even though your culture expects you not to change your sex and will punish you harshly for attempting to do so. If your culture were reformed such that it no longer imposed different expectations on people of different sexes, you would no longer want to do what you want to do; rather, you would want to do what I want you to want to do.That’s why you should do what I want you to do right now, even though you don’t want to do it. It’s for your own good, even if doing it would lead to substance abuse, self-injury, or suicide, because what is good for you isn’t what improves your health; rather, what’s good for you is doing what I want you to do, no matter the consequences.
>>43861942I think calling it gender dysphoria can be a misnomer, like I had/have sex-specific trait dysphoria that HRT is great at alleviating and little to no social gender role dysphoria so no interest in social transitionif this were better understood it would undermine a lot of the common anti-trans rhetoric
>>43863151Also, I don’t actually want your culture to be reformed such that it no longer imposes different expectations on people of different sexes; I merely pretend that I do in order to appear as the morally righteous one while I portray transsexuals as upholding such expectations. In actuality, I endorse such expectations; I demand that you conform strictly to my beliefs concerning which behaviours, clothing, accessories, and biological characteristics are appropriate for each sex.
>>43863173They will never understand this perspective, either because it contradicts their narrative, because they’re written off all transsexuals as being not worth listening to, or both. They don’t want to listen, they want to ensure compliance with their cissexist norms
>>43863173The cishet can't understand. Not won't, can't. It's an epistemological problem. From their perspective it's a birth defect in the brain that causes a male to believe they are female. From our perspective our nervous systems are female and we have to accept that is who we are. And while coming to peace with "I think female therefore I am female" is part of our journey. "You think therefore you am", even without the gender dimension, is never something that can be reasonably understood by humans.
>>43863278Hi ala!
