>>43888134
im so sorry nona please dont kill yourself that is not a the logical conclusion i dont fully understand what youre talking about but youre not a retard or anything like that

>>43888301
It is the logical conclusion when both taking estrogen and not taking estrogen leave me hating myself and constantly questioning if im ruining my life. To the point of inflicting genuine mental pain at times.

> i dont fully understand what youre talking about
How im scared HRT is wrong for me. Especially being scared about breast growth because its so obvious and irreversible and mayb or mayb not would cause my dysphoria.

While also having been miserable before HRT and occasionally liking or even loving everything it does.

Like it seems its just impossible for me to know what i want. Ill always be uncertain and miserable about that and also in general because i hate myself no matter what gender ig.

Its been like this for almost a decade. Maybe longer. Atp suicide feels like the logical way to end all of this.

Not on hrt -> Miserable, in part cuz ugly moid (maybe)
On hrt -> Miserable, in part bc too scared of breast growth (maybe)
And in either case im miserable cuz i hate myself

Clearly the only winning move is to just not play (live).

> youre not a retard or anything like that
A non retard would be capable of understanding their feelings and desires. Im some inhuman creature that either has neither or they are so obscured and contradictory they may as well not exist.

You seem to have some nice breasts in that picture. You're worried about breast growth. What do you think about the breasts you've gotten so far? You seem to have been happy in that picture. You're also content with showing them to us. At least with regards to your breasts the answer seems obvious, no?

>>43888557
>A non retard would be capable of understanding their feelings and desires.
most people don't desu, you just bummed out getting more intense and less desirable ones

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>>43888602
Its kinda angle frauded and also weird cuz i swear these fukin things change size and shape every few hours.

They might not be as big (and def not well shaped lol) as they look like in that pic.

> What do you think about the breasts you've gotten so far?
Thats the problem, i cant fucking tell.

Sometimes they scare me and i think they are weird, or i think its weird i brush up against them with my arms. But honetly idk if its because i dislike them. Or just cuz its new and weird and im scared what i think of them if they become bigger (which they will). Like i see women (legit anywhere, real, fictional, photo, video, animated, drawn, it doesnt matter) with any significant amount of breasts. And i think "hmm idk mayb that looks annoying/uncomfortable, wouldnt it be weird to have these domes on ur chest all the time"?

But then other times im like in the OP picture, where, yes, i was really happy with how they made that nightdress look on me and im smiling about it, thats why i took the pic kinda.

In fact, its been like 1-3 months now, but i legit cried out of happiness before cuz they gave me curves/made my torso look more fem lol.

same with the attached (also angle frauded) picrel. I had a massive stupid grin on my face about how i looked just off of screen here.

> At least with regards to your breasts the answer seems obvious, no?
It should be (maybe) but its not. The times im this happy about them are often v. short. Like when i randomly notice they make clothes on me look more fem or sth.

But it really only lasts a few minutes at most. And im just so goddamn scared of how permanent they are and how like, idk, cumbersome and maybe a lil ugly (larger) breasts seem to me.

They are also so visible and obvious and i dont like that i think. And im also scared of having to bind cuz it sounds like a hassle and uncomfortable.

Its maybe stupid but it really keeps me on edge about them all the time. Which of my feelings am i supposed to trust on this?

>>43888785
I have no clue, but you started all of this for a reason, did you not? What make you start taking estrogen?

>>43889411
>I have no clue
welcome to the club :/

> you started all of this for a reason, did you not? What make you start taking estrogen?
A lot of things. The fact i had some (but not many) signs i may have GD just a lil bit. The fact that i hated myself for thinking about it for years and not acting on it already. The fact that i still wasnt sure and was hoping i could force a conclusion by just finally trying it out. The idea that i couldnt imagine my life being any worse (and perhaps a lil better sometimes, both in like a personal/existential sense) if i was tranny or just female.

Stuff like that + a healthy dose of "would i regret never trying this" and "fuck it lets just try".

That sort of thing was mostly it i feel like.

>>43889411
>make
it's ESL ...
made*
>>43889740
You said you were miserable in the OP, but you also have some happy moments wrt. your transition. What about pre-transition? Did you ever have happy moments related to your gender?

>>43889822
> Did you ever have happy moments related to your gender?
No never lol. Thats like the ultimate biggest "ok maybe i just keep taking this shit point" i have now.

Like, even before considering i might be trans, i think i can recall avoiding mirrors and pictures. I do also think i didnt like my face but idk to what extent that manifested AFTER i started considering being trans vs already being a thing before.

But after like, month 3-4 or so of estrogen. I kinda started sometimes liking what my face looks like, for the first time ever :/.

Also started deliberately looking in mirrors and taking picture when i felt i looked pretty.

My phone is p. old atp, before february of this year it barely has any pictures on it, and none of them of myself.

Since february i took perhaps 1000 pictures of myself. A lot of those smiling and like angle frauding or even topless and shit...

Like a few months after starting estrogen, marks the first time EVER, probably in my entire life, that i kinda sometimes thought i liked what i look like. Which like yeah that might be a big deal lol.

Sometimes i also get an odd drive to like figure out how to dress myself and shit now. Or i feel weirdly confident lol. Its rare, but shit like that never happened before, pre hrt i just kinda tried forgetting my body exists (and was pretty good at it).

But also im not sure, what if im forcing these moments? What if i could have always been more happy with myself and its only popping up now because i pay attention? Maybe i just kinda accidentally never cared for how i look pre hrt and it wasnt trans related? And if i had itd have been the same as now? What if im just happy i look more fem (but not necessarily female)? Or im just happy i look younger (but not bc i look female)?

>>43889922
>But also im not sure, what if im forcing these moments? What if i could have always been more happy with myself and its only popping up now because i pay attention?
Sounds like this might be the crux of the issue then, no? I think you are the one that has to introspect and answer this. I don't have much to go on, but to me it doesn't sound like you've been forcing anything.
>What if im just happy i look more fem (but not necessarily female)? Or im just happy i look younger (but not bc i look female)?
Estrogen helps with all of this, so at least you should continue that.

Side note, I had a massive deja vu moment here. Like we've had this exact conversation before but in my mind a friend (who I hadn't talked to for years till yesterday) called me over and I told you I had to go.

>>43888134
from what u are describing it sounds like you genuinely like the effects hrt gave you till now. its sounds more like your just scared that in the future you might not. on the other hand it sounds like you know that going off hrt would make you feel shitty again.
how i see it:
staying on hrt: best case: continuing liking the effects of hrt and getting happier. worst case: getting the same feelings u had before.
Going off hrt: certainly feeling like before

just some food for thought

>>43890087
idk if its the crux. Even if im not forcing the upsides and they are because of hrt.

Then we still have the question of whether my fears and concerns about breast growth are real and i actually have a problem with it.

Or if its just some stupid overthinking fixation i should drop since in actuality i just seem to like most of what hrt does, perhaps even including breast growth.

Also i feel like i cant answer this, especially the "could i just have been happy pre hrt too" thing. Cuz i took no pictures of myself, and my memory is really bad, and i rarely looked into mirrors n stuff. So i cant know anymore how i felt back then about how i looked or even how i looked at all.

> Estrogen helps with all of this, so at least you should continue that.
Idk, ig, but also it eventually might make u just a woman. Ik ppl on her will say it does literally nothing, but if i have to fear NOT being fine with it then suddenly potentially being a luckshit turns into a concern lol.

> Side note
Uuuuhhh desu i dont understand what u are trying to say here?

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>>43888134
Hey I don’t wanna put my life on yours but I was in a very similar situation for like 4 years now. I think at some point it stopped being about dysphoria and masculinization and more of the fact that internally I wanted my self to be trans and that I could not lose this part of myself. I do what I can I get skinny which makes me happy and I wear jewlery I like. I stopped hrt and still look like a man but I have a good supportive network of femreps who I love and care for. It is in times like this that I rep picrel right facing blue man and try to look forward to a better moment . Irs okay to be a guy I hope you don’t think I’m a chud. Maybe you’re just very in your head anon maybe you need to crash out and let go. But sui won’t help with that. I wish you the best I know what I say can’t help but time will I promise

>>43890120
>from what u are describing it sounds like you genuinely like the effects hrt gave you till now. its sounds more like your just scared that in the future you might not.
Honestly, sometimes i really do agree with you here and think this is absolutely true and i should just keep going.

But then other times "being scared that in the future it might be different" feels so strong/certain im considering if i might actually already be feeling bad about the changes and should stop. Or that its so certain my opinion will change i should stop now already even if im fine with it currently.

> on the other hand it sounds like you know that going off hrt would make you feel shitty again.
Not necessarily, its kinda crazy how much my personality and like thinking about gender, transition, my life and myself changed on hrt. To a point where im considering that going off hrt for an extended amount of time, and seeing how i feel now with this new experience. Is maybe at least a good idea to try, or perhaps even the right call and sth i could stick with forever?

On the other hand its kind of nonsensical. On E i like all the effects, except being unsure about boobs, but even liking those sometimes too. On T i like none of the effects. From that perspective its odd to even consider. Idk...

> just some food for thought
So yeah i think u are onto sth with your analysis of on vs off hrt. But u are missing that "on", the worst case is having to detrans (annoying, costly, painful and perhaps scarring (top surgery)). The best case has a (slight) question mark behind "linking the effects" and "off" hrt theres a chance i wont feel like before due to personality changes.

>>43890795
> more of the fact that internally I wanted my self to be trans and that I could not lose this part of myself.
Honestly i can kinda see that and i sometimes think that might be it for me too. Tho its slightly weird cuz i dont usually confidently call myself trans at all lol. Its just idk, atp im so absorbed in trans media, (internet) culture and even writing a bit that it might genuinely just be that i want to consider myself trans (even if i might not be) just because i seemingly relate so much?

> I have a good supportive network of femreps who I love and care for.
wdym? like fem(ftm) reppers?

> Maybe you’re just very in your head anon maybe you need to crash out and let go.
Yeah im probably absolutely too in my head. Thing is (in part) taking hrt was supposed to help with that. Like pre hrt i was ALSO too in my head, just about whether or not i should (try) HRT/transition instead of whether i should keep going.

Now i "crashed out" and just yolo-ed HRT, but im still like this :c.

> But sui won’t help with that.
Ik, i felt very bad when i wrote the op, i calmed down more now and think im an idiot for being so fukin cringe to post myself and my conetits to 4chan with "retard" scribbled across it -_-.

> I wish you the best I know what I say can’t help but time will I promise
I dont think im decisive enough to actually kms. So sometimes i also think ill figure it out eventually with time, and i wonder how ill look back on these posts and stuff then. As me just being silly and overthinking but trans? Or as me being an idiot who clung onto transness for way too long and no good reason?

Tho the worst outcome i can imagine is looking back and still feeling the exact same way.
(Funnily enough i now have that sometimes with fucking egg memes i saved 6+ years ago at the start of my questioning. Its deeply sad but also funny that i still relate to not knowing if im trans over half a decade later and 8mo on HRT)

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>>43891982
>im so absorbed in trans media, (internet) culture and even writing a bit that it might genuinely just be that i want to consider myself trans (even if i might not be) just because i seemingly relate so much
you just gotta watch the line in your mind you know ? I find troonish culture to be very special and I really like it and I like it through the lens of being trans and not as a cis man both can exist. I don’t wanna lie I still get very sad abt it sometimes
>femreppers
Femreppers can and should be your best friends I love the ones in my life so much and I let them know it as much as I can. Spiritually they will understand you more than your fellow mtfrepper or mtf or ftm ever will. If you live in a city go find a wasian femrep I find them to be so totally educated and smart and kind of ethereal when it comes to this subject I don’t know what I’d do with out mine.
Again we also were in very different stages. I took HRT for a good while and I stopped and started so much. I am generally a very insecure person and tend to be unsure of my humanity ( which is my masculinity ) I hope you figure it out. You remind me of my sinking blue person in a good way stay safe Nona.

>>43893174
>I took HRT for a good while and I stopped and started so much
What made u start HRT? And what made u stop? Also presumably u are currently off of it long term, what made u decide on that?

> I am generally a very insecure person and tend to be unsure of my humanity ( which is my masculinity ) I hope you figure it out.
Im insecure too and unsure if im even a (normal) human.

Tho u seem much more of a repper than me? Like u seem to not like being male but for some reason are still forcing yourself ot be lol.

For me, if i were to stop hrt, i think its much more likely id just end up some weird kinda enby. Like agender or sth idk (wouldnt really matter tho cuz i wouldnt be transitioning or like loudly proclaiming myself as nb).

Like i dont ever actually identified with being male or feel like i somehow irrecoverably am and just gotta accept it. Like some reppers (and u kinda) seem to do.

I feel like for me it really is much more just about whether i like the E effects for good. Or if my fears of actually (or eventually) disliking them turn out correct. With a focus on breast growth cuz its really kinda the only one im conflicted on.

>>43894734
giw i was a luckshit as much as you

>>43894756
If u take that from the pics then thx ig. But also they are pretty angle frauded and like, im tall and my shoulders suck extremely, so its not all great trust me.

And also conversely: giw i was as much of a normal tranny as you (presumably are). And giw i had a brain that wasnt constantly torturing me with gender questioning shit.

>>43894893
its way way better than me and no, im just like you im not normal at all but i also dont remotely look like that

>>43894971
if u have any certainty at all that u are trans or have dysphoria or that HRT might help, u are already way ahead of me on the mental front tho.

>>43895698
i thought i was but im really not being a woman wouldve helped me but im not and never will be.. im super dysfunctional

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>>43888134
You are cute

I'm osman, add me on discord:
osman7576868

>>43895722
Even that is sorta an improvement over me. I have no idea anymore if beign a woman would help me, just not matter, or mayb even make things worse cuz im just not one.

Like it feels different from what u describe:
> being a woman wouldve helped me but im not and never will be
sounds like you are still yearning to become a woman. But u are just worried you arent capable of becoming one. Like worried u cant live up to the standards of a woman.

But im worried of just not being one. Like worried my brain is not female enough to not get GD from taking estrogen eventually (and especially/specifically from breast growth).

Or that even if i could manage not to get GD. That my brain is not female enough to be significantly happier after transition. If im still going to be the same amount of miserable as right now then why make my life materially harder for no reason as well?

Also as much as "Im AMAB so im a guy" is bullshit/not applicable in my case. If im genuinely not sure im not a guy, it just makes sense to assume i am, given that most amabs are guys.

>>43888134
your hair does look beautiful tho, it would be a shame it seems like it took a lot of time and effort to grow it out so well

>>43896364
girl you sound brainwormed as hell. do you have any irl trans friends?? how many hours a day are you on 4trans ?

>>43897475
thank u <3. Its the one feature i also kinda like about myself, tho rn i feel again like it doesnt really matter and i dont really care.

Also idk how pretty it really is, havent been to a hair dresser in years and really should. Its super uneven and my ends are prob at least a bit fucked. Its also not styled at all, its literally just "long" and thats it.

And it looks frizzy af in the pic so im not even sure why u think it looks good beyond it being long lol.

Didnt take lots of effort either. Just same basic af hair care. Did take long tho, this is around 7 years of growing it out. Started when i first considered being trans, before that my parents semi-forced me (wasnt a fan but also didnt really care) to have it short.

>>43897708
it looks healthy, just take the compliment

>>43897507
im brainwormed, in the sense that i know of the brianworms. But i think most of them genuinely kind of dont affect me. Like, idk i feel like post ironically brainwormed, i dont take them seriously, but i also dont think they are complete 100% bs sometimes. Idk s weird.

> do you have any irl trans friends??
Didnt for the longest time. Now i vaguely talked to some at few times but nothing lasting. Also makes me faketrans anyways, like ill just have brainwormed myself into this tranny shit online while not considereing what its actually like, cuz im too much of a shutin to understand what it (or anything in life) actually entails.

> how many hours a day are you on 4trans ?
Not that many actually i think. Tho i have bad days (and weeks) where i keep posting about my bs (like rn/today).

>>43888134
>>43896364
Have you ever considered that all your uncertainties and doubts and fear of reverse dysphoria are just a manifestation of regular gender dysphoria?

>>43897953
Only vaguely. But not really, because how would that even make sense.

>>43898136
You're literally afraid of developing reverse dysphoria. In other words, you're afraid of having no choice but to be a moid. Sounds pretty dysphoric to me

>>43897708
girl the effort is just living with it! you worked hard for those locks, you should be proud

>>43897755
the only reason I ask about irl friends: I think every trans person has some amount of brainworms, but the only treatment for them is hopefuel. whether that’s in the form of a real irl community, a trans content person or whatever, or just regular old journaling/therapy

4chan helps my brainworms, but only in the post ironic sense of confirming their existence and laughing at them. I can’t just laugh all the pain away, I do need something real and tangible to hope for at the end of the day

other than all that, listening to trans music/reading trans art really helps me feel not so lonely in this world when all else fails. a lil treat helps a lot sometimes

>>43898326
desu that is not really it for me. i dont despise the idea of having to be a moid. its just apathetic ig, like idc and it might just be meh. for me its more so that the idea of not being one might alleviate some of that general life apathy.

at least that was the idea back before hrt. now idk anymore.

its more so that if im a moid and take E i will get dysphoria. and that shit sounds like it sucks and ruins ur life. same with the process of having to detransition. esp socially it just sounds so fukin emberassing to admit u were too stupid to tell ur own gender lol

plus if its not tranny shit then idk what to do to make me hate myself less/improve my life. and this has been like my primary line of inquiry for almost a decade. if this aint it i wasted a shit ton of time, fucked over my body and am still back to square one lol.