So I have been reading the Bible after finding Christ again, and I have to admit that when you actually look at this thing honestly its pretty clear that Paul would of found homosexual relations and 'cross dressing' to be moral sins. Yeah Jesus never actually says 'gays bad' but he doesn't want you to entirely disregard old testament law and Paul is always on about circumcision and sexual immorality.I feel like there is some kind of response to this within Theological Liberalism or something, but people like Redeemed Zoomer are correct to note that most Theological Liberal talking points like 'Love is Love' are nonsensical statements.I know Jesus loves me and the Holy Spirit dwells within me so I know I am doing right, I just don't have the Theological justification.
I'm trans so I don't care.
It isn't wrong or harmful or immoral in ANY WAY to be attracted to the same sex, to act on that attraction, to openly date or have sex with the same sex, to speak about your attraction to the same sex, to be unashamed of said attraction, or to do all that without being chemically or surgically castrated!!!
>>43904747this thread is about christian morality, not YOUR morality, and it's pretty clear in christianity that that's immoral
This is the kind of thing you should ask your priest and not lay people on 4chan. He will help you find the correct Catholic stance on this. Hope this helps.
>>43904757There are over 7,000 rules in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The ban on gay sex is rule 4,750. How are you doing on the other 7,000 or so? Matthew 7:1-6Because unless you're perfect, and you're not, then you need Jesus just as much as any power bottom.
>>43904791this is just cope man it's absolutely clear in black and white that homosexuality is a sin in christianity, there's no coping it away
>>43904788>the correct Catholic stance it's missionary, as always
>>43904803You're right it is cope. It's you coping with the fact you're mired in Judaism and cannot recieve Jesus infinite mercy. You say you read it, but you seem to have skipped over all the important bits and just focused on the gay bits. Let me tell you something there goblin, gay is just not a big deal, blasphemy on the other hand, like preaching hate in the name of Christ, that shit's an express one way ticket to the lake of fire. Matthew 7:21-23
>>43904803so is wearing mixed fabrics, who cares?
>>43904735Paul was a misogynistic homophobic chud. No sense in listening to his ramblings.
>>43904813>>43904815>rule is spelled out clear as day in black and white>DUDE but there's like, lots of other rules too! How can this one crystal clear zero room for interpretation rule be real when there's like, lots of others! The fact there's lots means I can writr any individual one off when it's convenient for me for some reason!cope
>>43904842yeah you can write all of them off because theyre all retarded
>>43904842the rule is more harmful, in practice, than the behaviorif you disagree, you are simply personally homophobic and looking for cover for your own bigotry being gay is not a sinit's not wrongtelling gays they are doing something wrong is a sinit hurts gaysit drives them to suicide and makes them feel unwantedrepressing gays are unhappy gaysgay men married to women are unhappy gay men
>>43904757I go to progressive Churches that are fine with it, but like, the reasons they are fine with it are just personal statements, they have no Theological justification. All of Theological Liberalism can't be empty headed feel good nonsense right? A lot of mainline Churches founded Ivy League schools, there had to be some biblical based egg heads in there right?>>43904815I think that falls under the category of Paul saying you can eat bacon.>>43904829Executed for chuddery against the Roman empire, off with his homophobic head.
>>43904852We're all very impressed you're an atheist anon, it's very cool, but this thread is specifically about answering something within the Christian framework. The question is "what does Christianity say about X" to come in and say "well I don't believe in Christianity" is not an answer to that question or even on topic. You're just announcing something no one asked like the vegan stereotype
>>43904858He was perfectly fine with persecuting Christians and after his conversion he still persecuted female and gay Christians.
>>43904854>being gay is not a sinWrong, and it couldn't be more explicitly stated. Genuinely not worth engaging in any of your interpretations when you just invent your own bible on the spot however you like.
>>43904873religion is a thin excuse for people who already hate gays to preach about their bigotry you are driving gays to suicide, this is twisted sadistic shit bro nothing holy about demonizing people who are born harmlessly attracted to the same sex
>>43904873You're a pedophile and a rapist.
They tend to say he was rejecting it in the predatory sense the Romans used it in. Raping slave boys and such. People back then could not have conceived of a loving monogamous relationship between a man and a man or a man and a trans woman.
>>43904882That's a fine opinion to have but to make the statement "being gay is not a sin in Christianity" is just objectively a false statement because it is a sin in Christianity whether you want it to be or not. Literally could not be stated any clearer or directly. You're taking it upon yourself to ignore the sin if that's what you want in your own personal interpretation, but to state "it's not a sin in Christianity" is just Literally incorrect.
>>43904900it doesn't matter what the book says, it is wrong to believe gayness makes you a criminal, regardless of motivation
Youre picking and choosing either way at the end of the day, so pick, and choose.
>>43904913Perfectly fine personal morality to have, and I agree, but that's not Christianity thats your personal morality. You cannot say it's not a sin in Christianity just because you like to consider yourself Christian and that's your personal (conflicting with Christianity) morals. It is explicitly a sin in Christianity.
>>43904842>I don't get it. Yeah I can see your position is bereft of genuine love and faith. There are two religions in the bible, the first is the religion of Jews, which is a religion of rules. The second is the religion of Jesus, which is the religion of love and forgiveness. >I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [John 14:6]The meaning of that phrase is that NOBODY enters the kingdom of heaven on their own merit. Because nobody follows all the rules, in fact you're trying to tell others the rules and in so doing breaking the rules yourself. >If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. [John 12:47]The reason Jesus dies on the cross is so that we don't have to pay for our own sins. And he did this for us because he loves us SO much that he had himself tortured to death to free us from the burden of sin. >A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. [Joh 13:34]And that's the price we pay for it. We must be loving as He, the guy who LITERALLY HAD HIMSELF TORTURED TO DEATH BECAUSE HE LOVES US, must love each other as much as he loves us. How do you think you're doing on the love stuff? Because so far I'm seeing a whole lotta judgement and castigation, not a lot of "your body count doesn't matter, I love you regardless."
>>43904930christian morality is evil and we should be beheading those who believe in Jesus Christ to prevent gays from committing suicidekill all christians
>>43904935Feels much better to have the mask off, doesn't it?
>>43904930Youre describing your own personal interpretation of people who worship Jesus Christ. Christianity is a collection of established denominations incorporating a variety of often contradictory ideas and beliefs.
you know like their explanations are public?a) scripture in the original languages contains no prohibition of homosexuality, but does record same-sex marriage.[12] "But if we take a closer look, reading the scripture in the original Hebrew and Greek, we discover that God never condemned homosexuality, and that same-sex marriage existed in Bible times."[13]b) The Biblical references to homosexuality were uttered in the context of promiscuous same-sex practices of Hellenistic cultures (Paul) and cultures surrounding the people of Israel (Deut), especially when the interaction was between two people not of equal standing, and thus could be viewed as coercive and non-consensual. This kind of sex without love was often practiced by heterosexual men in lieu of going to female prostitutes.c) It is an affirmative good that stands alongside opposite-sex marriage and committed monastic celibacy as a revelation of God's self in the world.so same sex marriage is better than people hooking up; if both gays are christian and follow the lord, they are part of gods message, i guess gay marriage existed back then, and out of marriage gay sex tended to be pederastist and enabling sin.
>>43904935>I'm JewishYeah I know. You're gonna burn son. You need to find Jesus, He's the only one who can save you.
>>43904987Not really. There's one Judge and He will have his day.Christianity isn't about what Christians believe, it's about what Jesus does for us.
>>43904933Yeah see "erm, Jesus like told us to love each other!" Doesn't contradict the new testament explicitly spelling something out as a sin. There's just no way to get around it, it's in the new testament in black and white as clear as day that it's a sin, and Jesus is explicitly against you sinning. The hippy leftist Jesus people love to paint does not mean that he suddenly thinks sinning is okay. Jesus's entire life was preaching against sin, and homosexuality is EXPLICITLY a sin in the new testament. End of discussion. Talking about Jesus's endless love and forgiveness does not override the fact you spent his life preaching AGAINST sinning and that homosexuality is explicitly a sin. No amount of passages about Jesus's love means Jesus is okay with sinning or else there wouldn't be sins at all in which case believing in Christianity with sin is just nonesense, you're inventing everything from the ground up at that point.
also i was looking through it fun fuckin fact many christian (episocal) churches permitted gay marriage blessings before they permitted people wearing a condom (1997 versus 2006)
>>43905002also new testament never said spelling it out as a sin; and the references paul makes to it; he is a disciple of god; while jesus is the trinity. Jesus becomes friends with prostitutes, like the most sinful of professions, and allows them into the church. his act of kindness is what the good news is about above all. you are dumb and you should just stop
>>43905002How are you not getting this? You're just picking out verses that justify a preheld believe that you're trying to establish post hoc. That is a REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY BIG SINButtsex on the otherhand is like farting in church, try not to but if you can't help it oh well Jesus loves you anyway. If you'd actually read the bible instead of just skipping to the parts about the gays, you'd know that Jesus came to FORGIVE, not to condemn, and he was a fucking broken record on that. In fact the only thing he doesn't forgive is people who preach bullshit in his name. Matthew 7, just read Matthew 7, it's like 300 words, and you're pretty much rejecting all of them. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=NIV
>>43905041wait this is so realMany will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons (...)’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
>>43905064Yeah, DON'T FUCKING DO THAT. You literally fuck yourself over as hard as it is possible to fuck yourself over because Jesus will not advocate for you with the Father on the day of Judgement, which is the only way any of us are getting through the gates.
>>43905041Jesus came to forgive sins, meaning sins or bad. Jesus is not okay with sinning. This is where you hippy leftist Jesus believers go entirely wrong. Sin is something you need to be forgiven for and steered away from, it is not permissible. Jesus'love does not make sin permissible else it wouldn't require forgiveness
>>43905223Facing homophobia or transphobia drives believers away from Christ. It's literally a tool of the soul's enemy. Heterosexuality is just as sinful as homosexuality is. Arguably breeding is even worse than premarital homosexual sex with strangers.
>>43905250>telling people not to sin drives people away beccause not sinning is hard and people like to sinliterally doesn't matter. not sinning will always be harder and less appealing than sinning, You genuinely just have to pick a different religion or deal with the fact you're sinning and ask for forgiveness constantly. There's just no way to reconcile this being permissible within Christianity
>>43905277If it's a sin then heterosexual acts are as well. Yet for some reason only it is scrutinised. Epstein was a heterosexual yet you think what he did wasn't sinful.
>>43905285yes, many heterosexual acts are also sinful. correct. there are many sins. Heterosexuality itself is not sinful though, homosexuality itself is.
>>43905292Heterosexuality itself is a sin. All heterosexual acts are rape.
>>43905298that's nice anon *pats your head*
>>43904735>>43904757Let me mansplain it to you as a real man, toots.Big J, not one of the fake ones, but the real one that lives in my mind and is objectively the only correct one, that guy's the one that threw the merchants out of the temple and consorted with the whores. He's the fella that loves you even when you've sinned, the one that cares for the cripples in the community. Any good Christian would follow in those values.You're a gender cripple. The only humane thing that should be done here is to help reduce your suffering. Hence, proper timely treatment, others being decent humans in their interactions with you, and even finding ways to integrate you into the flock and help you find happiness.Now about the gays and homosex=bad. Back in the sandnigger days 2 millenia ago they needed the numbers of sheep in the flock, and they definitely didn't need the STIs that butthole sex between high-T individuals would result in. Hence it was a necessary sacrifice. That or some other sect was chill on homohomies, and you know how sects are about vilifying practices by the Bad Others.Nowadays we've got better medicine, and we've got much bigger issues affecting the birth rate than 1% of the population having their brain wires mixed up. Plus you're a woman, so as long as you don't hoe around, you're gucci.There's your theological justification.
>>43904935trvthnvke
>>43904735>redeemed zoomerCmonIf you read around you'll find that theological liberals make good points and bad points. I also find it persuasive that Paul didn't have monogamous, loving, and non-pederastic homosexual relationships in mind at all. Whether that makes being gay not a sin is probably still up to interpretation though.
>>43905298>>43905320In First Thessalonians Chapter 5 he even condemns heteros from being too lusty even with the context of marriage.First Thessalonians is the oldest part of new testament, written earlier than the gospels.
>>43904735boring kind of tranny, at least they get raped and murdered by some twitter orthodox chaser they meet on xitter
>>43904735if you want a proper theological justification, we first need to understand the deeper reasoning that motivates the stance against lgbt behaviours>https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_and_Responsibilitya major component to this is a respect for human integrity and a phenomenological recognition of the (heterosexual) premises for human existence. when we engage with sexual acts that do not go towards procreation, there is a danger that we forget this, and the act of sexual intercourse becomes cheapened. in love and responsibility, the pope not only warns against homosexuality but also onanism for this very reason. sex change operations also threaten a forgetting this order. in an elaboration by a bishop, he mentions how something that was a major concern in the writing of the first encyclical i posted was transhumanist insanity. the church wants to guard against the mounting hubris of men to treat themselves as godalthough i am not a christian, i sense the value in such concerns. with technological instrumentality, something of the physis of things is lost, and everything becomes standing reserve for instrumental reason. there is a threat that this tendency even encroach upon the body itself. i think the best way to combat this tendency is to maintain reverence towards the body as an expression of deeper formative principle as well as perhaps the honouring of ancestors. sex should also be reserved for sacred occasions rather than treated like a recreational activityive been developing more ideas on this topic, and i think i will illustrate it in a myth about a saint when i am done. would anyone here be interested in that?>>43904887the argument against homosexuality goes back to plato. even though there are homosexual undertones in his works, in Laws he is explicit about it and sex outside of procreation is forbidden as it violates natural law
>>43904735>its pretty clear that Paul would of found homosexual relations and 'cross dressing' to be moral sins.this seems like a mistake you can only make by half-assedly believing in the divine inspiration of scriptureif you don't believe scripture is perfect, paul can just be wrong. if you do believe scripture is perfect, it doesn't matter what paul believed, only what he actually wrote.
>>43904735Paul never met Jesus. His name wasn't even Paul
Imagine being cucked by a 2000 year old desert cult
>>43905320>Plus you're a woman, so as long as you don't hoe around, you're gucci.i'm genuinely curious can you elaborate on this line? not OP but please
>>43906643No one in paul’s time met jesus, the gospels invented the earthly jesus later. In pauls generation everyone only saw him in visions.
>>43904992The bible never forbade murder, since they didnt use guns at the time. Therefore, buttsex is kosher.
>>43907430Should women still wear head coverings?>>43906356Go off queen
the only relevant type of christianity anymore is the peyote and such things like it. the rest is a larp, like theyre playing the NES thinking its high tech while your next door neighbor has a modern gaming pc and youre completely oblivious to it. such is life inside the larp! they deserve it imo!
>>43904735I never cared much about theological debates and arguing with a bunch of people far too obsessed with rhetoric and winning. I'd say you can be trans if you want, what matters is what you do with it.
>>43904735>people like Redeemed Zoomer> Though Ackerman is ethnically Jewish, he has identified himself as being supportive of supersessionism, citing that modern Jews "aren't the chosen people."Sounds like a trojan horse.
>>43908228I don't care how gay and retarded the man is, I have seen it in person and asked my own priest, Theologically Liberal churches don't actually have an piblically facing good theological response. The guy publically is wrong on Transubstantiation so I knew there had to be a response.I appreciate this explanation.>>43904992
>>43904735>love is live is nonsensical>love is genocide of pagans and eternal hell torture from the loving god, makes perfect sense
>>43904735you're supposed to suppress caring about anything involving the flesh
>>43908503Yeah according to the og Puritans (before they became gay) you shouldnt even eat coffee and food with too much spice.
>>43907976>I'd say you can be trans if you want, what matters is what you do with it.most use it to be degenerate. even if they were born into the right bodies with the same souls they would still desire to be degenerate
>>43908579Bear in mind, nothing that enters the body can make it impure.
>>43908618...but whatever comes out of the mouth does...So, no spitting on your sub, got it.
>>43908618>Bear in mind, nothing that enters the body can make it impure.always think they've got a reddit gotcha when they take something out of context
>>43904735>>43904735Gods dammit anon just become a hellenistic polytheistIf you really need a messiah its Dionysus Zagreus Prometheus didn't just make all the straight people, Dionysus got him shitfaced and he made queers because he wanted more diversity in humanity Drop the christianity bullshit with its hateful genocidal bullshit and join a better faith
>>43904735If you have to come up with logic puzzles for why your god thinks you should be allowed to live on a technicality maybe you're wasting your time.
>>43904757Why adhere to a faith that holds your fundamental essence to be immoral?
>>43908973>le contextapologist used the magic word that instantly wins every debate
>>43904813This. There are a lot of rules and the no gay stuff rule is way down the list.
>>43909984Hardly way down the list if god prescribes the death penalty, there are probably only like 200 things for which you deserve to get executed according to the god of love.
>>43910011Old Testament. However while I've always believed in God, it is reason #2 why I've never been completely sold on religion. Reason #1 being what about the other religions? My only explanations are nobody is perfect and they're all different versions of the same thing so don't take it too seriously.
>>43909962I saw Mary while high, later while sober I felt the holy spirit communicate to me that I needed to pray with Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses, and Amish.
Great thread
>>43909963let me know when you're ready for an exorcism
>>43904992Where did you copypaste this from? It it's not an AI hallucination it's the biggest cope interpretation of the classical era I've ever seen, holy shit
The circle can be squared. David Albert Jones and Peter J Cataldo write extensively on the theology of being trans. Fr. James Martin is a more approachable author on the topic as well. Regina Ammicht Quinn's work is good too but it's only available online in german and not as grounded in scripture.Augustine also kind of touches on this in Confessions when he talks about how the law of God is universal but that doesn't mean what is permitted in every age is the same. He then immediately follows that up with 'except whatever was going on in Soddom, never do that shit ever.' So take from that what you will..This is really hard to find because it's a developing area of theology. Most justifications fit one of the following categories: the author picking verses to justify a conclusion they've already made, the author is just refuting attacks rather than making a true queer theology, or the author barely understands theology and is mostly just saying 'love is love.' Not all theologically liberal talking points are bad but most theology about queer people is just bad theology regardless of stance.
>>43904735jesus christ is the most successful cult leader of all time
>>43908530>before they became gayi'm quite sure there's a lesson in there somewhere
>>43913488I think the witches they burned put a curse on them to make them gay. Purtitans -> United Church of Christ for those wondering.
>>43914174Usually, when they start persecuting large numbers of people, you can tell something went wrong.
