>>43932224
diy or die

>>43932299
Ever since my mother caught me trying to mail bras at my house at 14, I now have to open my packages in front of her. Do you know how much of a nightmare it will be to open hrt?

>>43932322
lmao
get a friend to receive it, rent a PO box, or maybe a postal service nearby offers a parcel locker service, idk. get creative

transition NOW

Only way to be a women is to be born as one and hrt is a scam.Only real solution besides suicide is learning lucid dreaming or something like that.

>>43933409
good idea. kill yourself

>>43932322
There are crafty ways to hide DIY equipment, you can make secret compartments under or in furniture, hide it in a stuffed bear, idk. And yeah you should try to get your hands on DIY. You're 18, you don't need your mom's consent for anything legally. You said you can't transition without risking it all, but you say you rot in your room all day so how much are you really risking? Life is scary and adversary is scary but the harsh truth is if you don't advocate for yourself and make decisions that are good for yourself, nobody will. And if your environment doesn't allow for that you need to change your environment. Get a job, save up money, move out. Share with roommates of you have to, anything is better than living with an overbearing mother who's denying you happiness.

>>43932322
Maybe you could try to order from estrapen, an estrogen pen sounds easier to hide than a vial and needles
Either way I believe you can do it as a troon living with parents hiding hormones. It's literally that or your life is over
>>43933526
trve

>>43933409
You do realize hormones play the largest part in sexual reproduction and characteristics, right? Why doctors and scientists say trans individuals on hormones therapy are practically identical to cisgendered counterparts. This is also why children have very little dimorphism between sex and can't reproduce until after puberty.

>>43932224
Awww, that's sweet in a way, and kind of relatable, and really sad

>>43933526
I really like what this nona said.
.
>>43932322
That's really controlling and abusive...
I'm so sorry, nona...
I think the first thing you need to do is try to secure some autonomy, like a job and a place of your own or something so that you can actually explore yourself, whether that means clothing, makeup, HRT, or all of the above :(


Good luck, sister, I really hope you make it and grow into a beautiful woman.

>>43933567
>hormones play the largest part in sexual reproduction and characteristics, right
Doesn't matter. Only relevant factor is they way our bodies are geared to reproduce i.e sex, which is an immutable characteristic. Gotta ask yourself why at least 19 times out of 20 wish fullfillment fantasy uses magic or supernatural science as a means to change ones identity rather than say hrt...

>>43933677
tbf part of the fantasy bit is because 90% of wish fulfillment art is made by adults who it's too late for.

We need AGP inspection day NOW!

>>43933677
> people wish for the easy and instant path instead of an imperfect thing that takes years
wow!! what a breakthrough! next you'll say people rather a briefcase full of money appears in their house than having to work!!

>>43933677
So if you just view people as walking baby factories, why the fuck do trans people matter that much to you? Why are you trying to take away our right to reproduce if that's the only factor? Because you don't actually have a good argument or logic. You're lashing out from emotion like 90% of cisgendered men do when they can't have their delusional way of what reality should be

>>43933701
Well said, sister :>

>>43933687
>"imperfect thing"
Come on now... i wouldn't wish the cursed existence of being a hon on my worst enemy.

>>43933720
being a repper is worse

>>43933701
It's because you're arguing with a bot nona. You're going to get bot responses that make no sense but conform to typically rightist views with juuuust enough plausible deniability in it's wording to throw you off. They're either a literal AI bot or a chudbot who only knows how to argue in bad faith. Best to stop responding

>>43933701
>So if you just view people as walking baby factories
We are evolved primates that want to procreate by finding a partner of the opposite sex and that's the standard we evaluate and judge ourselves on. That's just reality. So if you're trying to change your "gender", you need to overcome all the deep-seated programming nature equipped us with to detect frauds (which is the absolute highest result you can aim for barring magic). For example google "facial pareidolia." It's where you see faces in objects that aren't there. Basically, every single person has a hardcoded chip running in their brain 24/7 that scans and categorizes your face, frame, smell, posture, social status, etc. in a fraction of a second. That + so much more is what you're up against.

Going down that rabbit hole is just objectively insane.
>You're lashing out from emotion like 90%
Nope. I'm just real.

>>43933771
I got that impression too. creepy

>>43933860
And, again, it's not like you'll ever be a real women anyway. You'd have to be born as one for that. Absolute best case scenario for going trans is that you're gonna take a trillion to one gamble of LARPing as a somewhat decent fraud for, like, a couple years at most. Regardless of how much people here would insist "being a repper is worse" this course of action simply does not pass any kind of honest cost-benefit analysis. Accept that life sucks, just like cripples have to, and learn lucid dreaming or something or just commit suicide.

>>43933526
Nothing is a secret. My mom knows Im repping, and reminds me to just give up on that hope whenever we argue on it. Also me, my dad and all my siblings have important healthcare and government papers either overviewed, co signed, or just made by her. It's not as easy as just "get a job, save money and move out". Besides she has already commented on me being 18 by saying how it doesn't matter if Im 18 due to what I mention earlier, and the fact Im autistic enough to go on EDD. I still will have to accept myself as male for the time being

>>43933903
nona what the fuck is EDD
eating disorder something?

>>43933914
Employment Development Department. An agency in my state that gives money people who have gotten laid off, have illness, disabled, or are on maternity leave.

>>43933903
wow goddamn. fuck your mom

>>43933914
Can you get into college and take out a student loan or something?

>>43932224
source for the image?

>>43934041
I don't know how to get into college. I would also probably need FAFSA, but I don't have it since idk my SSN. Whenever I asked for it, I was told by my mom that she has everyones stuff handled and there wouldn't be a point in me knowing. Nice suggestion, but idk how it would work for me

>>43934061
sister what the fuck is a FAFSA
you gotta stop dumping a bunch of random acronyms on me and expecting me to guess what they are
also not knowing your SSN sounds like something you can easily fix

>>43933903
That does sound dire, Nona, and your mom sounds like an abusive piece of shit. These types of controlling abusers like to make their victims believe that they can do nothing on their own and are dependent on them. Don't believe a word she says. Research legal texts, ask around in law forums, speak to people that aren't your mom or her other victims about this. Chances are very high she's lying or framing things in a way that keeps you dependent on her.
That doesn't mean advocating for yourself is easy, and I didn't mean to imply that. That doesn't change that you need to do them. I feel for you, you are not in an easy situation, but much less hopeless than your mom would like you to believe.

>>43934126
100% this! Listen to this nona, OP!

>>43934098
Federal student aid. Basically a free form used to determine eligibility for financial support for college and or education
>>43934126
I recall the last time we argued when I had to be taken against my will to a barbershop, she threatened to send me to a mental hospital. I was placed under a 72 hour hold once at 14 due to my dysphoria getting that bad, and I remember when I got out she went on about how embaressing it was for me to have even gone there. But now she uses it as a threat. It seems as though she does want me repping forever however she can, does it?
>>43934054
Umineko When They Cry manga adaption

>>43934290
She's literally threatening to take away your autonomy if you don't do what she wants, please tell me you see her for the abusive piece of shit she is! Please seek a way out!! Get a restraining order if you have to! You're a legal adult, she can't make decisions for you anymore. Please don't let her keep doing this to you :(

>>43934290
>Federal student aid
your mom should tell you your ssn for things like this nona. get your ssn however you can and then gtfo

>>43934290
Listen buddy you're literally getting groomed ITT. If you do what they tell you your life will be a hell.

>>43934404
>siding with the abusive mother

>>43934411
You're just calling her abusive to frame her badly and create a rift between OP and his family which is textbook grooming. It's perfectly reasonable to prevent your child from making an incredibly stupid and irreversible decision when you actually care about them.

>>43934443
yes I'm an evil groomer which is why I'm doing this thing I get absolutely nothing out of

>>43934458
True. There are plenty of assholes that get a kick out ruining a strangers life for shits and giggles.

>>43934472
>the entire animus of encouraging someone to transition is to ruin their life for fun

>>43934510
Some groomers do it because it's their fetish, some do it to validate themselves like a father who circumcises his son regardless of how it affects the target, some do it to virtue signal and others do it purely out of a sadistic glee. Freaks who put animals in blenders are a thing as well. Very similar.

>>43934562
wait, so, according to this model am I an actual tranny who went through the same struggle my "target" is or am I an evil neckbeard nolife (and so is everyone else on the board)

>>43934595
Those are just the types i came across. I'm not fucked up enough to have full encyclopedic knowledge of every type of person that would ruin someones life for nefarious purposes. A post-ironic admission of guilt is pretty common for people who actually did the crime in question. But whatever. Why don't you tell me why you're grooming OP?

>>43934677
trap question (answering would agree it's 'grooming') but whatever: cause I don't want her to be a depressed repper for the rest of her life. that's it. I'm a nice person, I think.

>>43934697
>writing a to-do list on how to best circumvent parental guidance
>asserting OP parent's are abusive and that OP should cut them out of his life
>never suggested any off-ramps nor attempted to test the integrity of OPs view of events
>all this with minimal info of OPs actual living situation
You know what the fuck you're doing, freak. So why don't you tell me the real reason why you try this shit?

>>43934443
she won't allow her 18 year old, legally an adult, child access to their documentation. Not even stuff like birth certificates, but their SSN card, which is designed to fit in a wallet
this is controlling and abusive behavior

>>43934677
OP already knows who she is, we just want her to be able to live as that person

>>43934774
>she won't allow her 18 year old, legally an adult, child access to their documentation
>this is controlling and abusive behavior
Controlling, sure. Abusive? Only if it's actually harmful. I would act the exact same way as OPs mother, too, simply because it's in the best interest of my child to not go down this rabbit hole. Nothing said so far suggests any degree of sadism or neglect on her part. Just a parent trying to be real with her child suffering from a mental disability.
>OP already knows who she is, we just want her to be able to live as that person
You can tell a cripple he can become a dancer all day long, doesn't matter. It's not happening.

>>43934834
>Only if it's actually harmful.
preventing an adult from meaningful function in society
lack of an SSN will bar OP from gainful employment, college, and more. Is she to rely on her mom to always be onhand to fill out forms?

>Nothing said so far suggests any degree of sadism or neglect on her part
OP's mom sounds like the sort of person who's two steps from putting a lock on her child's door to make sure she stays in at night. And day.

OP is a human being capable of making her own choices, not a chihuahua to be kept in a purse

>>43934891
>Is she to rely on her mom to always be onhand to fill out forms?
>two steps from putting a lock on her child's door to make sure she stays in at night
Considering OPs in here getting groomed, told to blacklist his family and take drugs behind their back as well as dealing with obvious mental issues, yeah...sounds like a good and responsible course of action. He should thank his lucky stars his family gives him enough care and attention to prevent him from fucking up his life for you freaks.

>>43934959
>>43934834
>>43934697
kys
imagine hating trannies so much that it leads to wasting your time like this

>>43934697
sorry nona I clicked the wrong message
t. >>43934969

>>43933677
>anon doesn't know about the Guevedoces of the Dominican Republic
Penises and vaginas are not that special. Have you ever looked up clitoral development? And have you ever considered intersex people in this? Are intersex people male or female based on such *immutable* characteristics?
>Gotta ask yourself why at least 19 times out of 20 wish fullfillment fantasy uses magic or supernatural science as a means to change ones identity rather than say hrt...
Because HRT has other effects that aren't always preferred? Because top surgery leaves scars and bottom surgery is...fucking barbaric? Why would anyone prefer surgery over magic if given the choice? You're literally asking people why they prefer a wish fulfillment fantasy to fulfill wishes cleanly and easily rather than fulfilling them messily and with great difficulty. "Oh man my wish fulfillment fantasy story about waking up with the face of a model doesn't have the character deal with botox issues and cheek and jaw bone problems, woe is me!" How stupid are you?

>>43934969
I don't consider it a waste of time if it helps OP evade your sadistic manipulations.

>>43934768
>writing a to-do list on how to get any agency
>asserting OP parent is abusive
>never tried to gaslight OP into thinking this is ok and normal behaviour for a parent
yeah. real predatory.

I shouldn't even engage with the sex/gender argument in this thread. I should address you, OP. From what you've said in the thread, it sounds horrible. I'm sorry. I've dealt with trauma from a young age that influenced my views on gender and my parents were very staunchly conservative, so I can relate that much.
Your story sounds like a dead ringer for being body-dysphoric. Anyone with some sympathy and an open mind would at least hear you out instead of treating you as an aberration. And I'm sorry that you haven't had that kind of support in your life. Especially from your mother.
>I don't even know my own SSN so I can't get FAFSA, and can't drive.
Well if you have a license or other state issued ID you can have a new SSN card mailed to you for a small fee. If your mother's keeping your own medical and legal information from you, then you're going to have to get someone involved. Legally. Because even though you're only 18, being an adult, you still have rights and sadly, you're the exact age where fighting for your rights is something you're doing almost entirely alone and with minimal real support.
As for FAFSA, I'd have to know more before I can make any suggestions. Since you're only 18 that means a pell grant would be based on the parents' income too, which based on my own experience would probably disqualify you from most of its coverage. Are you going to a community college or a more expensive university, and is this an associate's, bachelor's, doctorate? Depending on the difficulty of the degree and the monetary investment you might be able to manage it but....well, as a former Californian, I also know how expensive life can be out there. Especially if you *live* near the bay area. That's brutal nona, and I'm sorry, from the bottom of my heart, as a San Diegan.

There are LGBT support facilities out there, and some of them may even be able to help you forcibly retrieve your paperwork. But this is in the scenario where you move out...which I know isn't easy.

>>43935009
>And have you ever considered intersex people in this? Are intersex people male or female based on such *immutable* characteristics?
Intersex condition is a total red herring. It's not relevant for anyone ITT nor even for the vast majority of transexuals. The dichotomy of man and women is defined via biological sex, namely how your body is designed to reproduce itself. Since humans evolved as sexually dimorphic mammals there are basically three things we can be born as: male (giving), female (recieving) or "other" (anything else). The meaning of male/female was built upon the unbroken chain of countless couples that make up our ancestry. "Other" doesn't matter because since those individuals are by definition outside that chain.
>Because HRT has other effects that aren't always preferred?
OP was born as male, so that's where it ends for him. Taking hormones to change that is as futile as trying to take down a tank with a butterknife. Only something as reality defying as magic would be sufficient to make him a women in any true sense of the word.
>>43935035
>casually glancing over inducing him to blacklist his family
>"yeah. real predatory."
Yeah.

>>43935174
>blacklist
this isn't a heckin minecraft server dood

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>>43935174
"it’s irrelevant whether a man can become a woman or vice versa. What’s relevant is whether individuals tormented by the desire to be the opposite sex are happier when they present that way, and whether or how much the majority of society is willing to accommodate this."

>>43932224
you're 18, you can just start hormones :)

>>43935246
>oblivious

>>43935156
Since you don't have a car, this means you won't have the same amount of storage space and mobility as I did when I lived in my car. But a storage unit is anywhere from $50-120 a month, and you might be able to scrimp together enough for a bicycle or at least a backpack setup with which to get around with the bus/train. This isn't wholly reliable but it at least gives you better chances at getting a job. Considering you're 18, that means you've spent a large chunk of your childhod separate from others your age. I assume this combined with the autism make socializing hard. You may have to get fit for a warehousing or custodial job, something further away from strangers where you can focus on work. Anything for decent income and independence is vital here. In this economy getting a car much less a place to rent is gonna be an uphill battle. Your best bets may be crisis centers -- in SoCal there was a place called the Exodus center but I don't know if they're trans-positive or religiously conservative, regardless they can offer psychiatric options, shelters in your area, and some counseling on appointment. Something similar certainly has to exist up north. Even Salvation Army, though they're stringent on religion and drugs, may be an option for getting your foot in the door jobwise and shelterwise, that's how I got my first "real" job, by ringing bells outside my local grocery store.

Whatever you choose, please don't accept rotting in your room as the only option. I've been there, and I wasted most of my 20s rotting. Life will pass you by if you wait like this, and there is a wide world out there for you. The longer you wait, the harder it'll get to plant your roots and be your authentic self around people who care about you. You gotta start developing job skills and social capabilities, making friends and building a network. And that's not easy when you're 25 and have stayed at home studying and sulking in silence.

>>43935156
I don't have any IDs or licenses. My mom did say she filled an appoint me to get my state ID, but she said the same thing about getting me new glasses after my old ones were lost, and that took almost two years.
As for college, I was planning on going to a local junior college where I live. However, I can't drive. And Im honestly scared to do so since the last I tried I almost ran my dad over lol. Along with the same scheduling errors my mom is prone to making

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>>43935253
If your mom has that level of control over such things and refuses to do such things as getting you glasses to see with and an ID to participate in society with, then the only way you're gonna gain autonomy is either with an ultimatum or government intervention. I'm sorry.

>>43935253
>took almost two years to get new glasses

>>43935253
>look anon you dont need your SSN ive got everything in order for everybody
>but also it takes me 2 years to get you glasses
>you need to open everything in front of me and go to a mental hospital cuz othwrwise youll troon out
>but dont worry i'll totally get you your state id
Yikes

>>43935228
Society isn't willing to accommodate transexuality so that argument is DOA. There is a surface level virtue signalling varying from place to place, but no one actually buys into that. We know that's true because actual women go ballistic if you commend them on the success of their transition. Pretty much everyone is laughing at trannies behind their back (trannies do this as well to other trannies they don't like when they're not around, btw).
>>43935253
DO NOT FUCKING LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE MAN. Nobody telling you to cut off your family through government ultimatums is your friend. Just accept that YWNBAW and move on with your life. It is what it is.

>>43935174
Oh, BIOLOGICAL sex! So are you referring to chromosomal sex, anatomical sex, or gonadal/genetic sex? After all, there are people who mix and match between the male and female variations on all of these! There have been chromosomal mutations both pre- and post-birth which altered the development of everything from a womb to testes to breasts to a penis. A decent number of circumcisions are only performed because of the number of infants who have sexually-indistinct genitals, ones that could go either way this early in their life, and if the doctor doesn't forcibly turn those parts into a cut cock, then it may grow differently or even grow into female labia.
This counts as female, right? We've got females here who were born with XY chromosomes and later lost Y chromosomes, we've got penises that shrunk into clitorises, we've got naturally-occurring hormones that led to delayed development of both secondary and primary sex characteristics, and we've got wombs and gonads developing post-birth in a different direction than the doctor first told the parents.

Frankly we're getting off the reservation at this point. Because, as >>43935228 states, mass and uniform sexual reproduction isn't the meaning of life. What matters is the person who's alive today. Do they feel comfortable and happy in their own skin, or do they feel more comfortable in the opposite role? Or neither, or both? Gender, separate from sex entirely, is about how the person participates in society and feels inside. And nothing more.

>>43935339
Anon, do you think that parents who lock up their children, keep them "sheltered" from the world, make all their decisions into adulthood for them, and guilt and shame them for their every thought and desire are worth keeping around? If your mother rapes you and conceives a child with your jism, is that still a mother you want around? Are you gonna support the incest baby she made against your consent? Or would you report that bitch to RAINN?

>>43935339
>Just accept that YWNBAW and move on with your life.
Nta but if it were as easy as that nobody would troon out.

>>43935379
trvke
repped for like 7 years lol

>>43935273
I have tried doing those, even at 18. But they never go anywhere because my word means nothing
>>43935251
Whenever I have tried making and planning stuff independently, my mom knows why for. And always makes little comments about me "rebelling" or "running away". And that scares me. We both try avoiding any arguements because we are too stubborn to concied in any way. I just always wind up ending up some ideal Ken doll for my mom to brag about how proud she is I graduated highschool and all these superficial achievements

>>43935502
time to optics nuke ur mum lol
t. fed

>>43935355
>Oh, BIOLOGICAL sex! So are you referring to chromosomal sex, anatomical sex, or gonadal/genetic sex?
I'm referring to human biology as a whole, so: male (giving), female (receiving) and "other" (anything else). Humans reproduce as either the former, the latter or not at all. That's the actual lense through which society and individuals understands sex. The distinction of man/women existed well before we discovered DNA and none of your technicalities matter at all.
>sexual reproduction isn't the meaning of life
It is, actually. That's why what you're born as matters so much in the first place.
>What matters is the person who's alive today. Do they feel comfortable and happy in their own skin, or do they feel more comfortable in the opposite role? Or neither, or both? Gender, separate from sex entirely, is about how the person participates in society and feels inside. And nothing more.
It simply does not matter how much happier a cripple would feel if he were able to dance. Society judges people based on sex for reasons outside our control, sex is immutable and that's the end of it. If magic was real then, sure, whatever, cast the transition spell, alas...
>Anon, do you think that parents who lock up their children, keep them "sheltered" from the world, make all their decisions into adulthood for them, and guilt and shame them for their every thought and desire are worth keeping around?
I reject that framing as it is clear people here have a nefarious agenda to paint the parents in a bad light. I'd do the same things for my kids as well, if it helps preventing them from screwing up their lives.
>>43935379
Trooning out doesn't even work though.

>>43935502
>rebelling
>running away
WOW I WONDER WHYYYY

>>43935548
>reproduction is the meaning of life
you live in a sad, sad world my friend

>>43935548
>Trooning out doesn't even work though.
No, but repping is utterly miserable as well. Really it's more of a pick your poison deal since both options are terrible.

>>43935548
>i would also prevent them from the minimum of obtaining gainful employment so I can farm the NEETbux because I hate trannies
lol, lmao
>>43935502
this shit sux. fwiw this cant last forever. shit WILL hit the fan so do what you can to make an emergency plan. And once the tsunami passes and youre on stable earth you can cut her off from your life and leave her to wonder where it all went wrong. She'll blame it on you being a tranny when in reality if any parent did this it would be ggs for seeing their grandbabies

>>43935548
It's hard to paint the parents in a worse light than the reality of the situation, based on what we have been told. You're complaining the image is too dark when you handed me a goddamn black paint bucket.

>>43935590
My dad kicked my brother out at 17 because "he kept lying" and the straw that broke the camels back was him...not eating breakfast.
Left him with a trash bag of his stuff at a taco bell. Had my mom take her break early just to pick him up, and my brother has hated my dad since.
I was always crawling to my dad, but he ways ignored me, never made time to me, skipped my graduation. My brother did the right thing and cut him off and my dad wouldnt stop trying to win his favor back.
Maybe its cuz im my dad's adopted kid though lol

>>43935569
>Really it's more of a pick your poison deal since both options are terrible.
It should be an easy choice considering all trannies look they crawled out of the abyss.
>>43935590
Going to college while collecting NEETbux is pretty cool and jobs are a coinflip at best in the current economy. Idk what exactly the situation is, but i doubt it's as bad as you make it out to be.

>>43935591
There is nowhere near enough information to say that.

>>43935684
If you have family who is obsessed with making you "the right gender" through conversion therapy, institutionalization, screening packages, and repeated put-downs, THEY ARE ABUSIVE. I don't personally care what their reasoning is, she probably loves nona too, bigots are capable of hurting the people they love. And that's ALL the reason you need to get away from them.

>>43935677
most trannies realise we're trannies before we become irreversibly fucked so if hrt was otc, cheap and not fearmongered about, we'd blend in just fine. in fact you're contributing to the problem right now

>>43935677
>going to college
except she isnt enrolled and cant apply for any grants and is completely unable to identify herself for admissions. lol.
>as bad as you make it out to be
im just observing, babe. no ssn? no id? no birth certificate? no glasses for 2 years? surveillance?
>jobs are a coinflip at best
but we all still gotta work anon lmfao. If anon cant get employed in a few years people are gonna be wondering why there's a gap in their unemployment and its gonna be even harder. Mom is putting her future prospects in jeopardy.

>>43935677
It's a mental illness, you can't outlogic your way out of severe gender dysphoria the same way you can't outlogic ocd, depression, or autism. I'm a repper and I don't blame anyone who decides to troon, shit sucks either way.

>>43935710
This. Additionally, the average looks of people under stress are not great, and you know what generations are among the highest in stress and anxiety? Us, zoomers and millennials, younguns whose lives and money are wasted on barely surviving. I don't believe in hun-mockery because we're all barely scraping by, and held against the standards of porn stars and social media millionaires. Of course an average person who has gender dysphoria is going to struggle with their looks, especially when their bodily dysphoria has them awake at night pulling hairs and picking scabs while they're fully aware their hair's rapidly worsening and needs to be addressed by a dermatologist. But hey, no insurance, so fat chance on that, too.
Healthcare and looksmaxxer culture are a dangerous cocktail and I strongly believe it contributes to dysphoria.
>>43935740
This is VERY true. Trust me as someone who's had 30 jobs, you don't want multi-month let alone two year long gaps in employment. At this point in society, what you need isn't even the pay, it's the reliability of SOME income. At least on reliable income you can rent a storage unit to live out of, where too little income makes even that untenable.

>>43935710
>most trannies realise we're trannies before we become irreversibly fucked so if hrt was otc, cheap and not fearmongered about, we'd blend in just fine.
That's delusional. Some FtMs can pass off as male, but anywhere-near-the-mean MtFs? Never. Not to be too crude, but pretending they (could) pass off is just absurd.
>>43935740
We don't know the details and i don't buy your framing on the basis that it's too silly to not be lopsided.

>>43935936
not could pass. could HAVE passed, if not left to rot

>>43935936
do you have trouble with conditional hypotheticals? Anon said, IF THESE PEOPLE HAD EARLY ACCESS AND EDUCATION, things would be different. As in, if tranners didn't have to wait a decade+ to steer the ship toward their ideal bodily form.

Tell me anon, what would you have had for breakfast yesterday if you ate breakfast?

>>43935984
>>43935980
>not could pass. could HAVE passed, if not left to rot
>things would be different. As in, if tranners didn't have to wait a decade+ to steer the ship toward their ideal bodily form.
Not even hypothetically. It's already difficult creating robots from the ground up that mimick human appearances without entering the uncanny valley. You guys try something a trillion times more difficult by attempting to reshape an already existing male anatomy into that of a female one, without triggering any of countless subconscious tripwires that come with that task. *Something something tornado assembling a 747 in a scrapyard.*

>>43935936
>we dont know the details
Oh, ok, my bad. Withholding your identification and neglecting medical needs can sometimes be good, actually!

>>43936105
>using creationist talking points
Go back to the Living Waters facebook page you literal drooling mongoloid. This isn't a place for people who can't even fathom of humans as biological creatures.

>>43936105
>children and teenagers have irreconcilably different bodies based on sex
lmao wut no the whole point is that process isn't done yet lol

>>43936117
It's reasonable to be paranoid when you know your son is tempted to troon out + preventing this is not a medical need. With the glasses, idk, sound bad but what do i know. Even then that's nowhere near bad enough to suggest cutting them off or frame them as abusive/neglectful.
>>43936133
>This isn't a place for people who can't even fathom of humans as biological creatures.
That's funny as hell coming from you guys. Need i remind you that our mamalian subconscious face-recognition module along hundreds of others just like it run 24/7 ? + Our subconscious is biased towards false positives, meaning even looking at a chimney from the wrong angle could trigger doubt. But i'm sure you trying to imitate the form, shape, smell, feel and behaviour of a viable mate is a walk in the park if you just take these hormone pills at age 10 or whenever...

>>43936249
>it isn't neglectful to leave your kid without glasses for two years
holy mother of kek

>>43936249
>trying to imitate the form, shape, smell, feel and behaviour of a viable mate
ok you're not even trying to hide the fact you're a pseudocreationist chud anymore

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>>43936249
Biological creatures are not babymaking factories who spend every waking moment reproducing. If you wanna open the can of worms of biology in the animal kingdom, sexual behavior is all over the place. Hundreds of species have fully homosexual individuals, even ones that breed and create offspring. There are plenty of unproductive sexual behaviors, I mean turkeys will fuck anything that moves and plenty that doesn't move. As long as there are enough animals reproducing, the aberrations shouldn't matter to you. Of course, we know why it does: you have a religious ideology whose function it is to chain all womb bearing women to the kitchen, grind up and spit out all the men for the sake of genocidal conquest and capital expansion, and grow eternally, for the sake of growth, without care for the rate or quality of births. Like a cancer.
I don't give a shit about being or mimicking a viable mate. Even if I did, you can reproduce even when on hormones. The point is not to appeal to a bunch of obsessed bigots who hate you regardless of what you do with yourself. The point is to align with your self image and identity. The point is your SELF IDENTITY, and ALIGNING with it. The ENTIRE REASON you transition is to fit into your skin.

You're an insect. You live for the hive. You only want things that make more viable offspring. And insects are fine in nature, but not everyone has to be a goddamn ant. We have enough humans on this planet. We do not need more broodmothers and breeding stallions. We do not need to continually feed the machine. We are sapient lifeforms who have a planet to share, and your reaction to this is to make everyone into ants.

The ONLY thing that matters is pic fucking related. Nothing more. As long as someone can carry their weight and find fulfillment by whatever metric they can manage and want to. As long as they can be neutral to others at least they should be LEFT ALONE instead of SUPPRESSED.

>>43936427
My whole case is that trannies can not fool the nature that shaped us into what we are now. No clue where you're reading pseudocreationism into that, altough i will admit that i'm a chud, but so what? Nothing i said is wrong. And it's not just about passing. We are all confined in the ways we were born whether we like it or not.

>>43936449
basedbasedbased

>>43936517
You literrally quoted the most mindless and common creationist argument, the tornado in a scrapyard. Something which fundamentally misunderstands the pressures of natural selection and the fact that -- get this -- planes don't reproduce or exercise conscious or unconscious thought. Nobody's "fooling nature." Nature is unimpeded. Everything that exists is part of nature. And even if you consider surgical intervention unnatural, I can assume you eat GMO food and take vaccines for polio. HRT is literally the act of using hormones which BOTH SEXES PRODUCE. As a cis man you can take estrogen and improve your health, reduce your risk for cancers, and even increase some masculine features when used in small doses. Just like a cis woman can take estrogen to increase their feminine features. You know why this works? Because humans are NOT born one or the other, but GROW into one or the other. Clitoris = penis when hormones are applied. Labia = sack when hormones are applied. Pectoral muscles = milky titties when hormones are applied. YOU were a female in the womb. At conception, the X part of your XY chromosome was developing your body. And then later on the Y part kicked in and started to develop the hormones that led to your penis, your gonads, and your muscle distribution. Not even your chromosomal expression is concrete. Transplanted XX and XY chromosomes have been done in the lab, and even naturally occurred in humans and mice in nature, which caused early life genital switches and developed FUNCTIONING wombs and gonads. You CAN NOT address this point so instead you simply repeat your feeble appeal to nature.

>>43936449
>The point is to align with your self image and identity. The point is your SELF IDENTITY, and ALIGNING with it. The ENTIRE REASON you transition is to fit into your skin.
>As long as someone can carry their weight and find fulfillment by whatever metric they can manage and want to. As long as they can be neutral to others at least they should be LEFT ALONE instead of SUPPRESSED.
The fundamental problem for you trannies is that the identity you try to adopt is gatekept behind a biology you weren't born with, can't change into and aren't even able to effectively mimik. Shallow virtue signaling or extreme self-delusion aside, what you want is simply impossible. That's my entire point. To live out your new identity would require you to convince a third party, society, to acknowledge it, otherwise you'd just get ridiculed 24/7. But people will always care about what you were actually born as and they will always be able to tell within a fraction of a second what you were born as because that's behaviour evolution hardwired into us.
>the aberrations shouldn't matter to you
They don't. Live and let live is fine by me.
>chain all womb bearing women to the kitchen, grind up and spit out all the men for the sake of genocidal conquest and capital expansion, and grow eternally, for the sake of growth, without care for the rate or quality of births. Like a cancer.
It boils down moreso to aligning with your own nature rather than fighting it. What source other source of morality could possibly trump the one that gave birth to our existence? Women trying to be girlbosses or policemen is retarded because they weren't made for that and being chained to the kitchen isn't a bad thing for them. Conquest and capital expansion is awesome, at least compared to getting conquered or becoming poorer. And as for your last point every healthy organism needs to create a stable environment and improve over time whereas a cancer only survives short-term. This is all very reasonable.

>>43936861
>The fundamental problem for you trannies is that the identity you try to adopt is gatekept behind a biology you weren't born with, can't change into and aren't even able to effectively mimik
Hey retard. Read what I said. Then address what I'm saying. Because even biological sex HAS ALREADY been """changed into""" and """effectively mimicked.""" Repeatedly. And it becomes more clear when you go outside of average mammals and into species like seahorses, like platypi, like penguins.
Every time we point to exceptions to the rule or even proof the rule holds no water, you simply ignore it and reassert that nature is unchanging and rigid. It isn't.
>And as for your last point every healthy organism needs to create a stable environment and improve over time whereas a cancer only survives short-term. This is all very reasonable.
One organism not having kids does not cause instability. Exercising prudence in reproducing and putting thought into your reproductive actions is the OPPOSITE of forcing people to """align with their own nature""" by making them use every sperm cell to impregnate and every egg to rear young. You know what doesn't create a stable environment or long term longevity? Massive amounts of waste and pollution caused by overpopulation and increased consumption. Having kids when you don't have the resources to safely and effectively raise them and teach them. Look into the Australian rabbit overpopulation experiment. Look into mouse utopia.

Since you aren't addressing anything being said I'm just going to send you a video and you can sit the fuck down and watch it. Until then, don't talk to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVQplt7Chos

>>43936927
Just because you are coping hard doesn’t mean you are a woman lol. We aren’t clown fish, hyenas and we aren’t pinguins either, these animals aren’t taking prescriptions drugs and getting or a surgical table. People with DSDs are still male or female too.
Filling your body with hormones just makes you a man with gynecomastia and a limp dick.
You never even make any sense because you claim that being a woman is not just about being a female, yet try to mimic women by getting surgeries and shaving your bones off and even getting your dicks chopped and getting a fake canal with granular tissue and hair. You are born a man and will die a man.

>>43936249
if a child is treated like this regardless of the reason, especially adult child, most of them would cut her off lol

>>43936702
>Not even your chromosomal expression is concrete. Transplanted XX and XY chromosomes have been done in the lab, and even naturally occurred in humans and mice in nature, which caused early life genital switches and developed FUNCTIONING wombs and gonads. You CAN NOT address this point so instead you simply repeat your feeble appeal to nature.
Your point can be refuted, or dismissed, on the basis that it's not practically relevant. Let's say everything you listed is true, so what? Our morality isn't formed through math, but through natural selection. Something that defies common sense but basically never happens or or never leaves the realm of minute technicalities does not contribute to the common understanding of sex or the acceptance of transexuality at all.
>You literrally quoted the most mindless and common creationist argument, the tornado in a scrapyard.
Right, as in: "that's the hurdle you have to overcome if you wanna reliably pass as the opposite sex"
>>43936927
> Because even biological sex HAS ALREADY been """changed into""" and """effectively mimicked.""" Repeatedly. And it becomes more clear when you go outside of average mammals and into species like seahorses, like platypi, like penguins.
>Every time we point to exceptions to the rule or even proof the rule holds no water, you simply ignore it and reassert that nature is unchanging and rigid. It isn't.
Citing non-mammals is moot, and you're technicalities are just that. Regardless of how much your sex shuffled around at inception, is your body geared to actually get pregnant, or produce sperm instead? THAT'S the metric people use to judge your sex, identity, etc. and isn't that what matters here? No one cares if you changed your sex 25 time at minute 2:41 after conception. Can you change your sex/identity NOW? No.

>>43932224
If you're still here OP try to find a job and move out asap, regardless of if you'll troon or not. It's your life to live not your parent's.

>>43936927
>>43937100
>Exercising prudence in reproducing and putting thought into your reproductive actions is the OPPOSITE of forcing people to """align with their own nature"""
>You know what doesn't create a stable environment or long term longevity? Massive amounts of waste and pollution caused by overpopulation and increased consumption. Having kids when you don't have the resources to safely and effectively raise them and teach them. Look into the Australian rabbit overpopulation experiment. Look into mouse utopia.
I agree with all that btw. We shouldn't evolve into a giant ant-hive. Aligning with your own nature to me means accepting the guardrails evolution endowed us with as a fundamentally good thing rather than thinking you're soul in a jar that holds no deeper relation to your being.

>>43937054
>We aren’t clown fish, hyenas and we aren’t pinguins either, these animals aren’t taking prescriptions drugs and getting or a surgical table
The prescription drugs you are referring to are hormones that are already in their bodies, in the bodies of BOTH sexes, and then diluted in a solution like certain oils to slow down the release or increase the half life of the chemicals that, again, your body already has and produces. You know what you could do, and animals do too, to regulate hormones? Eat different food high in those hormones. We didn't invent estrogen. We just made it more concentrated for convenience.
>Filling your body with hormones just makes you a man with gynecomastia and a limp dick.
>You never even make any sense because you claim that being a woman is not just about being a female, yet try to mimic women by getting surgeries and shaving your bones off and even getting your dicks chopped and getting a fake canal with granular tissue and hair
I do none of those things. I would never shave my bones down. I would never get bottom surgery. It ISN'T about being a female.
>>43937100
>Our morality isn't formed through math, but through natural selection
Who said a damned thing about morality? Sexual identity and gender are MORALLY NEUTRAL. Who you are, what you do with your body and time on this earth, who you have consensual relationships with as an adult, hell, I'll go so far as to say that even if you're an opiate addict, as long as you're not driving while high or something, that's ALSO morally neutral.
>Something that defies common sense but basically never happens or or never leaves the realm of minute technicalities does not contribute to the common understanding of sex or the acceptance of transexuality at all.
Millions of people. Millions of fucking people is not just in the realm of "minute technicalities." Shut your bitch ass up.

>>43937107
Yeah, this thread has gotten rather "talkative" lol

>>43937100
>>43937162
>Right, as in: "that's the hurdle you have to overcome if you wanna reliably pass as the opposite sex"
There is no hurdle here, this is a phenomenon that doesn't happen. There's no probability, no goal to reach, in a junkyard tornado. You're speaking nonsense and the only reason you keep repeating it like a retard is because you're a creationist whose worldview is dictated by a book that claims bats are birds, whales are fish, breeding livestock in front of striped reeds creates striped calves, an old man built a wooden vessel larger than any past or future seafaring vessel of any material and used it to save all land creatures on the planet from a global flood higher than the highest mountain, donkeys and snakes can speak like people, and the dead can be raised using slices of beef. Things which very much defy every possible rule of the world that could ever exist. And yet the concept of "I have a penis, but I would prefer to present as a woman" so befuddles you that you have to stop the presses, take a break from your sermon about how spilling your semen or wearing mixed fabrics or backtalking your parents or planting mixed crops warrant being murdered by your entire village via stoning, and demand the entire world acquiesce to your pants-on-head worldview.

>>43937162
>Who said a damned thing about morality?
>Millions of people. Millions of fucking people is not just in the realm of "minute technicalities."
What i'm trying to convey is that our understanding of reality (and morality by extension) is a product of natural selection, which favours practicality and how things really are. In no way shape or form does your dissatisfaction with your sexual identity or alternative presentation overwrite the BIOS-level threat and mate detection that's running 24/7 in our subconscious.

And what i'm telling you is that there is simply no realistic way of overcoming that. You could start hormones at age 1, doesn't matter. Your alternative identity can not ever be affirmed by a society made up of evolved primates.

>>43937280
Threat and mate detection! Nigger, are we in the city, or the fucking jungle? Get your head out of your ass! Your morality has no function in a society that is no longer run solely on hunting predators and other races. We are not the twelve tribes of Israel here to kill 300,000 Benjaminites to preserve the purity of the Jewish race.
What practical purpose is there in dictating the sexual roles of people when you have more than enough people on the planet and more than enough cis people having kids?

>>43937197
Do you at least have any friends you could stay with in the meantime while you sort shit out? (trying to get the thread back on topic)

>>43937212
> And yet the concept of "I have a penis, but I would prefer to present as a woman" so befuddles you that you have to stop the presses
I understand you just fine. I simply do not think it's possible for society to ever accept you and that presenting as a women is pointless when everyone, you included, knows that you aren't. Irl daring to say trans men are not in fact women will already draw everyones, so, like, what are we expected to do here? Just play along with everything no matter how blatantly absurd? We're already told to pretend that men can get pregnant, and it's all just so silly.

>>43937162
You actively have to stop the natural testosterone your body produces and you have to take even more of the amount of estrogen that a woman naturally produces when she is in her fertile years. And a woman has both, she isn’t personified estrogen.
Eating estrogen rich food won’t make you become a woman because again you are a human, not a clownfish, you have to take synthetic hormones just to grow tuberous breasts lol. Stop using retarded points that make zero sense.
You aren’t a woman , far from it.

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>>43937350
They literally can get pregnant. No matter if you define sex chromosomally, anatomically or gonadally, there have been cases of "biological males" either developing or starting with a womb and being able to bear children. Men have GIVEN BIRTH TO FERTILE CHILDREN already. And this has even been naturally occurring before.
>it's impossible for people to accept you
Then FUCK those people, anon. And fuck you for trying to limit others based on popular consensus.

You're clearly not listening to anything being said. Not a single thing. So I'm just linking this again and telling you you're too much of a stupid faggot for /lgbt/.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVQplt7Chos

>>43937328
I had a small group in highschool, but our homes are atleast 2 or 3 miles apart at best. Besides I live in a conservative area of my state, so I'll have to leave anyways if their parents find out

>>43937386
lol did acid burn a hole into your brain?cite your egregious claims if you are so convinced. Where are these XY males that gave birth?

>>43937408
the video has OVER A HUNDRED CITATIONS!!!!!!!! FUCKING READ THEM!

>>43937350
>>43937212
There is a vicious cycle there too. There can not ever be an official line that says "only real women past this line", like for sports or prisons or gynecologist or pregnancies. The second such a line is put up transexuals will feel the need to break it down to affirm their identity. It's just not sustainable or reasonable to expect society getting along with this.
> you're a creationist whose worldview is dictated by a book that claims bats are birds, whales are fish, breeding livestock in front of striped reeds creates striped calves
I'm an atheist and my devotion to evolution is in direct contradiction with the christian faith. This should really come as a suprise to you.
>>43937315
>Nigger, are we in the city, or the fucking jungle?
Can't remember the exact number on top of my head, but aren't we just 100 generations removed from living in the stone age? Not at lot time passed since then.
>What practical purpose is there in dictating the sexual roles of people when you have more than enough people on the planet and more than enough cis people having kids?
Maybe none at all, but that's what we're stuck with regardless. Can't wish your instincts away.
>>43937386
>They literally can get pregnant.
We would be classified as a different species if that was actually possible. What you're refusing to accept is that common sense understanding of sex and identity isn't defined around (insane, probably made up) exceptions. They're defined by what's happening 99.8% of the time. Can men get pregnant 99.8% of the time? Lol no, so stop gaslighting.
>Then FUCK those people, anon
You still need them to play into your LARP, though.

>>43937392
You're an adult now, what would be stopping you from getting a drivers license, a job, or starting hrt yourself without involvement from your mom?

>>43937386
Tranny rights and all that, but you are literally telling lies and being delusional.
Trans women are men who take estrogen to try to become women, our acknowledge of you as women is just courtesy, normies don’t actually think you are women.

>>43937550
Whether "normies" think you're a woman or not depends entirely on what you look like. lol. That's why even those who actively try to misgender passing trans women will often make "mistakes" and gender her correctly.

>>43937498
I honestly have no idea other than "its just how it is". My mom co signs and assists with my siblings, dad, and even her parents with stuff like this. So it would be weird and noticable of she werent

>>43933903
My mother used to be like yours, I tried getting psychotherapy for my "gender confusion" (I actually also kinda liked being a femboy too back then, not that she would accept that either) hoping to get a taste of HRT, only ended up getting sent to a doctor that ruined my life and being guilt-tripped by her to go through with something I did not want while I was on SSRIs and depressed despite arguing to both family and so called "professionals" I did not want to.
Fast forward 10 years later I'm a NEET with diagnosed C-PTSD + PTSD, 4 coming outs, 2 gender dysphoria diagnosis and still boymoding.
I spend my days dissociated and in constant fight-or-flight and when I leave this state I put all my efforts into processing trauma and avoiding lashing out.
My mother changed attitude after I exploded and my parents went to talk to a progressive priest but I don't think I'm ever gonna be truly able to forgive her for ruining my body and my teens and 20s, nor myself for wasting time and not just fucking make a move for being so insecure.
If I could go back I would've chosen to run away.
Get the fuck out of there now, it's better for you.
Possibly find a way and don't end up on the streets, but get the fuck out of there before you become me.

>>43937574
As someone who grew up with a helicopter parent mom similar to yours, you need to establish some strict boundaries. I understand that it's difficult but again it's your life not hers.

>>43937573
The amount of passing trannies in the whole world can be accounted with just one hand and even then, “passing” still makes you men.
Even Hunter Schafer looks painfully male in real life and in motion, look at that slapping scene in euphoria, he even took the usual male stance lol.

>>43937604
Unfortunetly, Im Mexican. Boundries are fiction

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>>43937489
Your "devotion" to evolution (couched in religious language for totally not-suspicious reasons I'm sure) clearly isn't an informed devotion if you don't understand that species is a construct with plenty of exceptions, as is gender, and the ENTIRE CONCEPT of the tornado in the junkyard is a malicious misinterpretation of evolution based on fallacious probabilistic presumptions about animals. I straight up do not believe you.
>100 x 30 = 3000. Creationist brain. We had civilizations with ziggurats and metal refinement and farming for thousands of years before then. We were not blindly bashing in the brains of sabretooth tigers one hundred generations ago.
>>43937550
XY gonadal dysgenesis is not a LIE! Do you people all live in a fucking bubble? This shit is OUT THERE in the field of sexology. Stop getting your notions of sex and gender from ancient or sanitarium workers whose jobs it was to say "durr, it have pusspuss, it gurl, kill or imprison whoever denies this."

You people are driving me up a damn wall, have any of you actually READ the literature on this subject before arguing for strict gender binaries based on secondary and non-prescriptive sex characteristics? I'm over it, you're all lost to the modern creationist notion that humans are born the pinnacle of perfect masculine and feminine and cannot deviate in any way without impeding on god's plan.

>>43937647
Masculine and feminine aren’t descriptions of biology and your genitals aren’t the only thing confirming your sex. There are two sexes, get over it.
>have you studied?!
Yes, I am currently doing my residency.

why can't I be a real girl

>>43937685
Then what is YOUR conception of Swyer Syndrome?? Which sex is a Swyer's patient?? If it's genitals, intersex people disprove this, and if it's chromosomes, Swyer's and Klinefelter patients disprove this. This is a spectrum! It always was! You are not a male when you're infertile, or a male when you're impotent! So where do you draw the line!

>>43937574
"She's also abusive to everyone else" does not excuse how she's treating you. You can work with them to put an end to this shit together, or you can do it on your own. It's up to you what the best path is, but don't be in any way deceived into thinking that this is normal.
>>43937586
I'm so sorry, nona :(
>>43937613
she*
>>43937720
You can.

>>43937617
Still though you can't keep idly standing by while your own family is preventing you from living on your own terms. You wouldn't need to get parents permission to get a drivers license for example. Or even doing small things like going out without telling her to cement the idea that you're your own independent person.

>>43937721
Only a male can have Swyer Syndrome because it specifically affects the Y chromosome and again they are still males, just with a very distorted sexual development that happened in utero.
They don’t mestruate (and that is often how it is discovered in the first place) and they don’t produce sex hormone, their sexual organs aren’t even developed. They aren’t healthy, if they would they would be developing as regular females, and it’s kind of low of you and other trannies to use these people as a gotcha when DSDs also entail health issues. These people can’t defend themselves because they are less than 1% of the population, that’s how you get away with ridiculous claims like these.
Klinefelter is just the same, but not as drastic, it solely affects males, aka XYs.
Just fuck off with your bullshit.

>>43932224
there arent a lot of things i could contribute to this that havent been said by some here. maybe just once again:
you're not your moms property
you are an autonomous being deserving of respect and love.

try to get out of that toxic living situation asap. maybe rent out an apartment with friends (and if you dont have any, just random ppl). being independent gives so much leverage in life.
Moving out and getting into possibly relationship ending fights with parents is easier said than done. and getting it said to by strangers on the internet extremely frustrating.
I wont pretend that is easy or maybe possible. and i dont think anyone in threat thinks that or wanted to imply it. also having a fight with parents or moving out dose not mean cutting them off complete or getting kicked out.
i hope your situation gets better fast.
stay in the fight, sis <3

>>43937816
Low? Like I'm the one looking for a medical precedent for every single sexual determinant or function before I can accept the notion that a born male should be allowed to present or dress however the fuck they want?
Far as I'm concerned, the body is merely a host to a brain and gender expression has no right to be limited by force or shaming. But I have to come here and list off fucking sources because on the fucking LGBT board, everyone is obsessed with forcing sex onto discussions of gender. I have to fucking prove myself to assholes like you just to not have my internal self denied, like you know my soul better than me because I got a cock and balls.
Fuck you. Take this as a debate win if you want, I'm done talking in this thread.

>>43937790
Perhaps. I still cant do anything about it since the nearest hospital that could provide hrt is a 20 to 40 minute long drive. And as previously stated I cant drive or mail
>>43937874
Its not just losing my parents exactly, but my whole family. You see, willingly seperating yourself from your family like that is abadonment. Which for Mexicans who are very family oriented, can only come from a place of complete malice on your end. So I won't only have to worry about my mom, but my whole extended family possibly resenting me for reflecting badly on them

>>43937989
Far as you should be concerned, abandonment is the denial and refusal of your selfhood, not the act of leaving people who do that to you.

>>43937989
Is it possible for you to learn how to drive?
You're in such an abusive and controlling relationship even if you *weren't* trans that I don't know if she'd try to stop you...
but just, in general, just because you don't know or have something now doesn't mean you can't learn or acquire it in the future

>>43937989
As a repper neet in my mid twenties, I wish every day I could go back in time and get my shit together. Now I'm stuck in this life that brings nothing but visceral horror because I was too much of a coward to do or say anything about it back when it still mattered. Abandoning yourself for the approval of others who don't truly care about you anyway is never a good way to live anon, trans or not.

>>43938092
I failed my permit test atleast 5 times until my last attempt at a permit at 16. Going behind the wheel as a student driver is gonna be a whole other can of worms I fear