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>sample size 19

i do buy it honestly though. ive had similar shit. and im interested though about relativity of oral E vs injections to see whats going on there
tldr more research to be done

its literally just pms like fucking of course retards it happens

Moodiness due to hormones != Symptoms of a menstraul cycle.

>>43961450
sorry context hat. The Urinary E amount versus Prog amounts are what im curious. IDGAF about how gender affirming it is, just that it seems from this study to be legitimatly something going on with urinary estrogen amounts.

Why would wnyone want to have period symptoms in the first place?
I dont get any symptoms but I also havent gotten bloodwork in years and I dont really pay attention to how much I inject anymore.

>>43961495
Idk but as someone with weird hormone issues it sounds awful.

what makes something a menstrual cycle symptom?

>>43961423
I've been on HRT a looong time, I haven't experienced anything like PMS symptoms in a long time. That said I do oral/sublingual and am post op, so my levels are smooth, which is not the case for dolls doing injections. PMS symptoms come from that curve.

Back in the day though they didn't prescribe prog, they would give us a monthly injection as a supplement, and I definitely felt cramping/moodiness/being way easier to cry/get angry. It may have also been synergy with Spiro.

But yeah, I've taught sex ed stuff in some of my jobs, PMS comes from the fluctuation and how that affects the tissues that absorb it.

>>43961465
Moodiness due to hormones IS a symptom of the menstrual cycle though. It's just through controlled means.

>>43961423
needs more subjects
other than that it's a bit of a measuring the moisture of water sort of thing

>>43961465
you really couldn't even do a not-equal sign right, nigga?

>>43961465
this
you can't have a menstrual cycle without menstruation
a hormonal cycle is not the same thing

>>43961423
I had cramps really early on but I switched to shots and it went away, never to return

>>43962073
This seems kinda pedantic

Why does anybody even care about this stupid argument?

>>43961450
>gender affirming this, gender affirming that
yknow what would really affirm my gender is if cis people would fuck off with this shit

>>43962426
you can just tell their study included a bunch of fetishists going OHHHH I AM SO AFFIRMED OHHH THE PMS AND IMAGINARY MENSTRUAL CRAMPS ARE AFFIRMING MY GENDER SO BAD RIGHT NOW OMG IM GONNA CUM!!!! *pops euphoria boner*

>>43962232
it seems like a really specific technical definition that isn't really what people mean when they say menstruation
nobody says men have a daily menstruation cycle because they have a daily hormone cycle.
trans women have about a weekly cycle on injection, which isn't really like a cis cycle which is monthly and has much more variation
and even if a we're going to count any hormone cycle as menstruation, it's still nothing like the experience of cis women with bleeding and cramps and nausea. And menstruation really refers to the bleeding specifically

just cycle your hormones xister

>>43962530
this study is specifically talking about trans women having having a *monthly* or at minimum *biweekly* symptom cycle though; Nobody reported a weekly one despite several being on weekly injections, so you're speaking out your ass here

>>43962463
thats obviously not the case; please fucking read the article before you comment. Funnily enough, the only person who actually said that they felt affirmed had been on HRT for 10 years (Kate) so that doesn't fit that perception.

>>43962641
they're not reporting weekly cycles because it's psychosomatic for them, and doesn't have a medical explanation

>>43962665
that actually makes him fit the perception even more if after 10 years he's still feeling so affirmed. "Kate" is a creepy, creepy man

>>43962665
*affirmed by having those like in and of herself

the article specifically notes for the seven or so people who felt it, dislike it, but feel more connected to cis women regarding it; that they feel the exact same way as cis women under other circumstances based on other studies on women with hystorectomies, have had accidents, or just dont have them

again; if you want to poke holes in the argument; note that they didn't select for the manner that one takes E; if they've had SRS or Orchi or not, ect

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If you dont sync your cycle with your wife you're faketrans, sorry not sorry.

>>43962680
But the article proves consistent URINARY E CHANGES, consistent with cis women, despite this.

FUCKING READ THE ARTICLE I SWEAR TO GOD OR SYBAU

>>43962703
>my ADHD
lol everytime with these faketroons

>>43962707
Sorry but chuds don't read

>>43961423
Nooo!!! The seedbearers are disconnected from luna, they do not wax and wane as we wombfolk do, they do not have girlkidneys, only boykidneys and pisskidneys. Our specific special womanly kidneys have monthly cycles that couldn’t possible manifest in other tissues with the application of exogenous endocrine signals!!!

>>43962707
>All four women who reported ‘PMS’ had a lower-than-average estrogen level on PMS days compared to their 30-day average (range: z=0.37–1.30 standard deviations below individual mean estrogen). The single participant who reported cramps had a lower-than-average estrogen level on days with cramps compared to their 30-day average estrogen (z=−0.311). Similarly, two of the three participants who reported tender breasts had lower-than-average estrogen levels on tender breast days (z=−0.49, z= −0.14), while the third participant had an average estrogen level on tender breast days closely matching their 30-day average estrogen level (z=0.008). All four women who reported sweet cravings had higher-than-average estrogen levels on days with cravings, ranging from z=0.022 to z=0.57.
these symptoms are correctly correlated with estrogen levels, but this is just the normal experience of having high or low estrogen levels, which the subject is particularly aware of during when she believes her period is happening. She is most likely also having symptoms at other times of the month when hormone levels are high or low, but are ignored or discounted.

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>>43962683
actually rereading the quotes ascribed to Kate i...kinda agree. So with this case study im gonna present to you, just its describing 3 different sets, they showed that 6 other people fell into #3 type data, with an additional 5 having similar tracks but being less sure. So #3 and #2 i trust.

But look at Kate.

>>43961462
your levels shouldn’t be varying that much on pretty much any hrt. you either do shit with more volatile curves, in which case you’re taking it more frequently, or something that you take less frequently but its levels are stable

>>43962775
i would agree except for that last point because the study does account for that. This isn't them just thinking it should happen or expecting it or whatever.

>>43961423
it's just a nothingburger in the results
>oh a tranny said...
who gives a fuck
also, it's written by someone who works for a period tracking app. i guess they think crazy AGPs will pay for the PRO version for gender affirmation purposes

>>43962812
based scammer

>>43962073
Yeah.
>>43962232
Women have mood swings as their uteruses take a shit. That isn't PMS, that's menopause. But by saying any mood fluctuation associated with the rise and fall of estrogen is inherently Pre Menstraul Syndrome, it would be included.
You do not have PMS, because you do not menstruate. You have mood fluctuations, you could argue that estrogen gives you "womanly emotions" (I do not want to touch you), you could say that radical changes in your hormones at its peaks and valleys is cyclic and uncomfortable. You do not have PMS. It's not the end of the world if you think of it like that, but you are completely wrong. Also it's crazy that people really think that PMS is just being a bitch, when most of the symptoms are pain, water retention, exhaustion. It's not just feeling a little grouchy or a little sad or being horny when you're at your peak levels, or feeling passionate at your peak, or feeling any number of things you want to label as being solely because of your hormones.

>>43963075
Also needing to take a shit is not comparable to menstraul cramps. I've cried over them, I've sat on a toilet heaving for an hour waiting for it to pass, I hate the spasms that feel like someone stuck an allen wrench up your asshole. I hated realizing that my feet were swollen because I was holding onto water before I took a shower. I hated the cystic acne I got every month. I never felt moody. Who gives a fuck if you feel a little grouchy, it's a greatly overstated symptom. Fuck you if you think "Music is so much more... Heckin moving" because you think you're basically ovulating nigga hahaha

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What I don't get about this whole trans women get periods thing is.... trans women used to mimic cis women's hormone cycles on purpose and stopped because it literally didn't do anything? Like we already went through this guys. But now we're supposed to believe Alice who takes pills twice a day has fluctuating hormone levels? Not to mention cis women literally take hormones to STOP their period. Why does it only affect a small subset of trans women? Why is it always the sneediest too? I've never seen someone like Taf claim they have a period

>>43963256
I take progesterone pills to stop mine

idk maybe it's honscience but I have consistent dosing and have gotten to the point where since a bit over a year in on HRT I can predict a PMS/PMDD-like set of symptoms that comes on in a regular repeating cycle unfortunately reminiscent of what my mom went through with her period before menopause, and I've spent a lot of time gaslighting myself over it one way or another but I think it's real enough even if I don't have a great explanation besides all the worst symptoms being associated with elevated prostaglandins

maybe I'd feel more confident in it if I had like a day by day set of tests for different blood levels of E and FSH and prostaglandins and all that shit

>>43963287
It seems like honscience because its always hondosed sneeds claiming that 2mg e and 50mg spiro gives them heavy cramps

>>43963256
my theory for a long time from anecdotal shit, between myself and a friend of mine (who im surprised hasnt talked i know shes back on this board) was because of intersex related shit. I have mullerian tissue, she had a more serious thing with like a partial ovary or some shit. And that was my explanation for a while. Like out of the people i know irl, all who report this , had medical intervention for balls dropping at adolescence. But honestly i don't know.
as with most people i honestly don't get it and don't totally understand; and yeah i refuse myself to call it a cycle or a period or whatever.
None of these people are sneed types either. You can call me one whatever idgaf but the others like..aren't really. Almost all youngshit, various types of E, nobodies claiming crazy shit.

>>43963348
I mean yeh if you're intersex it makes sense but we have people saying they started getting the symptoms pre hrt as a 40 year old man. There's people that are 100% making it up mudding the waters on what might be real because omg my heckin euphoria !!!

>>43962782
Why is every study on trannies a perfectly crafted optics nuke

>>43963375
I’m going to give you a fun fact, müllerian remnant is actually a specious definition that purposefully excludes the anatomically normal prostatic utricle, which is lined with uterine-like tissue, because it is in all but formality a “müllerian remnant”. Intersexness is probably not required.

>>43961423
>>43961450
>people take hormones in a pattern
>researchers decide to explore to what extent the symtoms of menstrual cycles are contingent on the hormone levels themselves vs ovarian/uterine function
>people get pissy at the discovery that taking hormones in a pattern fucking does things in a pattern
wowwwww is almost like most people are committed to the position that theres some magical immaterial thing that defines you thats immutable rather than contingent on gene expression.

>>43963774
nigga who the fuck is taking their hormones in a monthly cycle

>>43963955
>nigga who the fuck is taking their hormones in a monthly cycle
me, but also youre retarded

>>43963774
Not a single person saying they get periods is on prog let alone cycling it

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>>43964002
gene transcription is variable, nona

It'd just depend on route. I have hormone implants so my levels are always consistent, if you take pills there'd be more variation in levels overall

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>>43961450
>leddit "period havers" were just larpers who were late for their estrogen shots all along
This isn't surprising desu.

>mom says its my turn on the excuse to have a woman moment
not allowing troids to be bitches due to being retarded is misogyny tbqhonky

>>43964290
trans women are women because they're fucking stupid

>>43964304
retarded even
and even more huggable
t. TIRM

>>43964357
waow thank you

>>43963348
I know calling it a period does seem skin-walky, but like, I do get real periods, and I for one have been convinced that tranny periods are a real phenomena. If they were totally psychosocial, nobody would get them at really really inconvenient times, but most do, the night before finals, a wedding, this that. In my experience, even if you’re cycling your hormones, your body doesn’t have random hormones floating in your blood, it gets nailed down into your tissues and globulins, and other mechanisms mandate its free presence in blood, that are cyclical. In that sense, its not reliably within one’s control to affect with exogenous hormones, even a static doseage could could this, monthly, and not weekly. That to me smacks, if we want to say its estrogen deprivation, why isn’t it every week, consistently?

>>43961495
observing having them isn't saying I want to have it.

>>43964002
I'm on prog and noticed it settled into a more predictable cycle after I started it

>>43961450
And the bullshit will stop again, the government will now probably cut funding and use the patriot act to monitor transgenders.
Mentally ill people, think and see shit that doesn't exist.

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>>43961423
You guys REALLY need to drop this shit and never ever talk about it again.
It is the most delusional bullshit imaginable and makes you seem completely psychotic.
You need to drop it forever.

>>43970311
If a study says it happens then why's it delusional? Just say you're a transmisogynistic loser who hates women

>>43970398
lmao

>>43970311
This is another case of moids never believing and never listening to women's ''crazy talk'' until decades of science and such reveal ''women were sane and telling the truth all along''. Come back in a few decades buddy.