>>44008834
mindless woke complaining

>>44008834
why is it so low quality?

I kirkenuinely agree ngl

this is how the most supportive cissies feel and you just have to deal with it because it's better than "kill all men in women's bathrooms"

>>44008864
What’s kirkenuinely mean?

>>44008887
i don't know I'm so fucked

>>44008834
being an asshole to trannies helps me rep tho

>>44008887
Shortened form of lowkirkenuinely, derived from lowkey + genuinely.

>>44008887
Are you 30 years old

>>44008904
i thought it was a reference to charlie kirk

yeah honestly, trans girls have inherently different experiences/lives than cis ones (unless you transitioned in like elementary school). that doesnt make them any less worthy of life or love though, i wish people werent such assholes for no reason

>>44008909
Well yeah that's the kirk part but it doesn't mean anything.

>>44008834
Yada yada "I don't care what fuckers are saying on Twitter" but I'm bored anyway. My mom doesn't believe that trans women are real women and finds gendering trans men really difficult but she's a very very pro puberty blockers plus hrt for kids and even supports surgeries ("if that's what they want let them have it, if they regret it then they can just stop and do reversal surgery") she's a lib with little information intake on this stuff other than like drag race, music, POSE the show and like fashion industry gays

Dev is a chaser so I trust him

>>44008932
I’ve encountered the full spectrum of true believer supportive to extreme antagonism from people and the “supportive but clueless” stuff like that and >>44008834 just doesn’t bother me at all anymore
As long as the person isn’t being intentionally antagonistic we are gucci

>>44008834
No.

>>44008883
i mean you have to deal with it because its true. like lets not kid ourselves, everyone on earth knows trans women are in a fundamentally different category to cis women

>>44008834
thats just the performative ally take
>excuse me si- ma'am this is a womxn-only event and we dont let me- i mean AMABs in here youre so hecking valid and brave though!

>>44008834
Hypocrite. Asking people to lie about what they see is being an asshole.
"Don't be an asshole" applies both ways.

>>44008834
it's harmless until combined with other beliefs about the differences between men and women, which means it's not actually harmless
this take has no answer to "we just don't want biological males in women's spaces". you have to understand the real basis of biological sex and the ways in which trans people really alter it in order to refute that.

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>>44008834
ok ill leave them alone but i hope they dont expect me respect their pronouns

>>44008834
transwomen become medically induced intersex, and thus are as much women as any intersex person identifying as a woman. So in some ways they are a biological woman.

>>44009375
So maybe we should call them medically induced intersex instead of women. M.I.I. would be a much more fitting category than "woman", both biologically and politically.

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>>44008834
idk maybe ask lilith her take on this

>>44009404
I mean politically we are women, because most transwomen fit more into the women catagory than anything else. We don't need to create an othering 3rd sex situation for trans people. They are just transitioning to the other sex. I realize that this is complicated by the people who obviously don't transition sex, I'm talking about "le trutrans" trans person: on hrt, getting surgeries etc.

Before woke 1.0 happened, trans women existed in womens spaces without problems because the only transwomen in womens spaces were... obviously women. This includes womens sports and bathrooms and the like. It would be dangerous for a woman to compete with men in many sports which is why transexual women shouldnt be in some 3rd all sex catagory or something. They shouldnt be exposed to male aggression or sexuality without protection the same way as women.

It was only until gay woke got out of control and started having really problematic age 40+ baby trans barge into womens spaces that it became an actual issue (and it has nothing to do with the culture war, it is an actual issue having people like that in womens spaces)

I realize there isn't a clean solution that has been found yet on where to draw the line of whos not just a woman but FEMALE, but before the culture war we had common sense stuff like hormonal profiles for sports that worked pretty well with very little controversy.

>>44009469
They're not women. Chromosomes influence the body in thousands of different ways, from the ways drugs are metabolized, to the ways organ function, to body composition, pain perception etc. etc. Chromosomes are the foundation that can only be modified by hormones to a degree. Even when the hormones are at the same level in animals of different sexes in experiments, males and female biology STILL operate differently.
Transwomen are not women but a separate category. There IS a clean solution, and it's that they are third gender.

>>44009591
>Chromosomes influence the body in thousands of different ways
if you think chromosomes are this magical woo woo thing that is all powerful in terms of body function you are simply just not educated enough to have this conversation. Chromosomes are important, but there DSD that aren't caused by chromsomes. If babys with normal genetics can develop vaginas than the body is simply more complicated than "chromsomes". You have been fed a bunch of politically motivated nonsense about biology that is not reflected in the actual science. 3rd gender is intentionally obtuse and certainly transphobic.

>>44008834
honestly yeah

>>44008834
No, asking people to deny plain reality is not a reasonable take.

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>>44009404
>M.I.I. would be a much more fitting category than "woman"
hell yeah i identify with this term

>>44009591
sex chromosomes do not do that
there is no practical biological difference between the cells and tissues of a trans woman and the tissues of a cis woman
biologically, trans women are in general much closer to cis women than to cis men. This is only not the case if you change the meaning of "biological" to "genetic" or "at birth" or something

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>>44009591
Damn shawty

>>44009647
>the info I'M looking at isn't politically motivated, YOURS is!
Oh, just stop already. I could link a ton of papers here, but all you need to look up is why women's health research is historically fucked because most medical research was performed on male subjects.
Transwomen are not women as of now, sorry. Tech might catch up eventually but until then, you are a third group. No shame in that.

>>44009755
>muh womens health stoodies
>this proves trannies arent women because...?
Are you retarded?

>>44009762
Because men and women's bodies are different enough in that what is effective treatment for men can be actively harmful for women.
You'd know this if you were a woman and could empathize, I guess.

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>>44009720
>iologically, trans women are in general much closer to cis women than to cis men
it looks like the majority of these womens health topics have absolutely fuck all to do with you tho

>>44009784
4/5 of that affect transwomen yes, so...

>>44009784
women's health problems affect trans women the same way, aside from ones that specifically affect the reproductive system obviously

>>44009720
>Chromosomes influence the body in thousands of different ways, from the ways drugs are metabolized, to the ways organ function, to body composition, pain perception etc
I sadly can't disagree with you on transwomen not being "real" women (female), but long-term hrt does change a lot of this to be more in line with female averages.

>>44009787
>>44009788
Y'all are delulu or disingenuous and this why we can't take you seriously.

>>44009788
Even those ones affect transwomen more like women than men. Post menopausal women literally take the same medicine we do to maintain their hormonal system or they masculinize (male pattern balding, oily skin, acne etc)

>>44009787
Nigga can you count?

>>44009812
chromosomes are bundles of genes. Genes influence the body
the only genetic difference between men and women are the Y chromosome, and you can look up what genes it has. Mostly it does stuff related to testicles and sperm. Other than literally the testicles and sperm genes and the "release testosterone" gene, men and women are genetically the same. There is no "male liver gene", for instance.

>>44008915
tgirl experience being like when cartoons show girls being treated really brutally inexplicably. people feeling so comfortable being violent towards them as shy kids

>>44009820
I'm sorry that you are uneducated but also feel very confident about this topic. I have a gynecologist and I do regular breast exams to check for breast cancer. I take a calcium supplement because of bone density issues that lead to a stress fracture in my arm. I have gotten a UTI twice. I do in fact, medically, require female oriented care to be healthy.

>>44009820
you're retarded

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>>44009833
no, chromosomes influence everything. every aspect of you, down to the atoms that make up those genes. How do I know this? JKR tweeted about it and it just FELT correct.

>>44009820
you are just telling on yourself you arent that smart lmao

>>44009839
>>44009822
>>44009833

Hormones do not float freely in a vacuum; they attach to receptors inside cells, and those cells are programmed by either XX or XY chromosomes.

When researchers change hormone levels without considering the underlying chromosomes, treatments often produce unexpected results.

Receptors and Blueprints
For a hormone like estrogen to work, it must bind to an estrogen receptor. The density, placement, and behavior of these receptors are programmed directly by genetics.

Brain Regulation: Research shows that the same dose of estrogen activates entirely different gene networks in XX brain cells compared to XY brain cells.

Metabolic Response: When exposed to high-fat diets, XX and XY cells respond differently to metabolic hormones, changing how fat is stored and burned regardless of circulating estrogen levels.

The "Four Core Genotypes"
DiscoveriesTo separate hormone effects from chromosome effects, scientists developed the "Four Core Genotypes" (FCG) mouse model. This allows researchers to compare:
XX animals with ovaries
XY animals with testes
XX animals with testes
XY animals with ovaries
These groundbreaking studies proved that chromosomes independently dictate health outcomes. For example, even when hormone levels are identical, having two X chromosomes inherently increases the severity of autoimmune diseases like multiple sclerosis and elevates blood pressure during stress.The X-Inactivation FactorIn XX individuals, one X chromosome is supposed to be turned off in each cell to keep gene doses equal to XY individuals. However, up to 15% of genes on the silenced X chromosome escape this shutdown. Many of these escaping genes regulate how cells respond to hormones, creating a unique cellular environment that an XY body cannot replicate, even if given female hormones.

>>44009877
>and those cells are programmed by either XX or XY chromosomes
if those cells aren't specifically cells in the testicles or relating to proteins required for sperm production then no, those cells are not programmed by Y chromosomes
there are no female genes that genetic males do not have
it does not matter if you copy/paste from chatgpt

>>44009891
>if those cells aren't specifically cells in the testicles or relating to proteins required for sperm production then no, those cells are not programmed by Y chromosomes

This is flat out wrong.

>>44008907
I am 30 and I know what it means, that anon is just retarded

>>44009891
Where did you get the info that shows the Y chromosome only affects or controls proteins related to sperm production?

Because all I see are multiple sources stating the opposite. Below are just a few.

From liability to viability: Genes on the Y chromosome prove essential for male survival
https://wi.mit.edu/news/liability-viability-genes-y-chromosome-prove-essential-male-survival

Metabolic impact of sex chromosomes
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3661109/

https://campionfund.org/blog-and-education/blog/why-the-y-why-is-it-important

The Y chromosome and its impact on health and disease
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8490013/

>transition
>suddenly eczema, migraines, utis
Obviously we're not cis women, but we definitely have woman problems.

>>44009877
>The density, placement, and behavior of these receptors are programmed directly by genetics.

yes but the dimorphism is nowhere near as extreme as you imply it is. there are men with higher normal genetic men with sensitivity to estrogen higher than normal genetic women.

>>44009877
>up to 15% of genes on the silenced X chromosome escape this shutdown
god damn x chromosomes just don't know when to shut the fuck up.

>>44009011
I mean honestly the movement should have gone in this direction and just taken a libertarian stance. We should have brought anyone who believes we should be able to take cross sex hormones and live our lives in peace into our political camp. It's so sad to me when our side keeps taking Ls just because we decide someone is an irredemable bigot because they have some criticism of objectively toxic tranny behavior. We've turned the moderate right against us because we demand absolute dogmatic obedience towards supporting our life choices instead of being happy that they put up with it. When we keep telling people they're transphobic, at some point they're just going to give up and go all in on hating us.

>>44008834
Kind of, trannies are trannies. Largely depends on what "biological female" refers to because people assign all sorts of meanings to this

>>44009591
Chromosome purism also has some weird issues considering people don't have their chromosomes tested typically

>>44008915
Love u Mark

>>44008834
It's a fair compromise. Like obviously I will never have a womb or ovaries. I'm okay with being third gender eunuch thing

>>44008834
"grrr let me classify you EXACTLY and WITH NO FAULTS EVER and 100 % TRUTHFULNESS (what the science people say never becomes untrue right???) because not being a dick to you is too hard sorry not sorry"

>>44008834
You can’t convince trans people of objective realities. It’s a mental illness and admitting they’re anything but identical to a cis woman shatters their existence.

Transition is a valid treatment for gender dysphoria because everyone has the right to make their own medical choices. I feel bad for them that they’re treated so badly and have to live in a body that doesn’t match how they feel, and their identity and pronouns should be respected.

But I can’t get behind denying the biological differences between sexes. That’s some doublethink levels of delusion that the average person will never get behind and it’s holding back trans progress.

>>44009375
>>44009720
Claiming that taking cross-sex hormones makes you 'medically induced intersex' or that there is 'no practical difference in cells' is an absolute joke. Pumping a male body full of synthetic estrogen doesn't magically turn your cellular system into a female one. Human sex is hardwired at the deepest genetic level. Look at actual laboratory science, like the 'Four Core Genotypes' research. Even when hormone levels are completely identical, male and female cells respond totally differently to drugs, regulate entirely separate gene networks in the brain, and handle fat storage through completely different pathways. On top of that, real biological women have a unique cellular environment due to X-inactivation escape, in which up to 15% of genes on the inactivated X chromosome remain active, something a male body can never replicate. You aren't 'biologically female' or 'intersex'; you are just a guy on an extreme hormone regimen trying to run a medical simulation.

>>44009891 >>44009591
Screaming that the Y chromosome only affects testicles and sperm just shows your entire understanding of genetics comes from tiktok. Actual scientific literature, including major genetic research from the Whitehead Institute, completely deflates that theory. Sex chromosomes dictate health outcomes and cell programming across your entire body, completely separate from hormones. Hormones don't just float around in a vacuum; they have to attach to cell receptors whose density, placement, and behaviour are programmed directly by your genetics. This is why your chromosomes independently control things like metabolic impact, organ function, immune system responses, and even how you perceive pain. Calling basic genetics 'transphobic' or 'chromosome purism' is just a desperate coping mechanism because real peer-reviewed science completely bricks your online scripts.

>>44009469
Trying to draw a line between 'good' trans people and 'bad' late-transitioners to claim that passing males existed in women's spaces 'without problems' in the past is pure historical revisionism. The issue isn't the age you transitioned or how good your costume looks; it's the material reality of male anatomy and male-pattern socialisation.

Stating that women's sports and changing rooms can be safely accessed as long as your hormone levels look right is a complete denial of human development. Going through male puberty locks in permanent structural advantages in bone density, lung capacity, muscle retention, and skeletal leverage that testosterone suppression can never erase.

Thus, excluding biological males from female spaces isn't some modern culture war issue; it is a baseline defence of sex-based rights and physical safety. A cosmetic simulation doesn't grant you a human right to override female consent, and trying to blame older transitioners for the backlash is just a desperate attempt to protect your fragile ego.

Even if a troon (or poon, I want to be equal) replaced every atom in their body with a corresponding male/female atom I still wouldn't consider them the opposite sex.

>>44008907
No? I just don’t come here much o algo. See I know other slang!

>>44008834
oldschool trannies would agree. modern trannies think they are the same as cis women or even better. one of the reasons of why things suck rn. and if you disagree you're a transphobe.

>>44010806
>no ur wrong because... meaningless niggerbabble!!!

>>44010801
>calling people tiktok while not providing sources for its claims
You're facebook

>>44010789
>>44010795
Changing your flag to repeat your bullshit niggerbabbling claim doesn't make it true bud

>>44011502
Old school trannies like me identify as transsexuals hence we transition to the female sex like stfu nutrender go back to 4tran lmao

>>44011987
go to bed brianna wu

>>44012322
>if you identify as a woman and not some puppygirlboy degenerate that must mean you're a pickme hon
Total covid troons death when

>>44008834
To imply trans women literally become females would be to imply they don't need things like artificial wombs or better ways of altering face/body because they're female already so why should they care
You're literally sabotaging trans healthcare just to feel a little better right now

>>44012405
>identity
who fucking cares, it could reasonably be argued we are men who inject steroids to get tits do you really want to get pedantic about identification

>>44012442
Idgaf what some nutroon moid has to say. I'm just refuting your claim about "le old trannies knew they were just sissy fetishists like me teehee"

>>44009720
I think of biological woman as natural woman. A transwoman would morph back into male without synthetic hormones where as a natural woman would naturally produce them and nothing could morph her into a man

>>44012466
desu a lot of old trannies were very strange too.

trannies haven't changed there are just more now

>>44009788
Trans women actually don't have the same risk to autoimmune diseases cause females have higher risk because their other x chromosome is silenced. Ftms have higher risk of autoimmune diseases than trans women

>>44012486
I mean yeah but still feel like a switch was made when we had to start using "transgender" to appease theyfabs and pooners

>>44009822
Menopausal women don't "masculinize" they have less t than teen girls do. Being an eunuch is just natural part of women aging. Women don't experience male pattern baldness, post menopausal women might loose hair but its female pattern and not male pattern. They keep their hairline, it does not receide

>>44010795
The problem is you can’t separate true genetics from hormone-induced epigenetic changes, pretty much unless you can study intersex people.
For endosex people probably swapping sex hormones later in life does not completely undo the effects of prenatal/shortly postnatal/pubertal hormone exposure. It obviously does not undo major structural changes. But it does, clearly, induce its own layer of changes on top of whatever happened before.

>>44011963
You’re retarded, this was my first post. You’re even deluding yourself into thinking your opinion isn’t fringe among the general population.

You know why the majority of people hate you? Because you don’t know how to take miles from inches, you just get offended that you didn’t get the mile right away.

>>44013132
>waah aah waah
Unsurprisingly, tranny seethe coincides with the literacy crisis

yes
-troon

>>44010806
this is factually all incorrect though, and has been rigourously disproven over and over again. Male "strength" isnt preserved on functional HRT regimens, bone density degrades. Chromosomes control some things, but hormones control as much if not more for how the body actually uses the data stored in chromosomes. This is why when you go on HRT you grow female breasts, because the DNA for that is in your body and when estrogen is in your blood it begins building a female body. This is the same with Androgen insensivity disorders where genetic males are born with full vaginas. Before DNA research these people lived as infertile women in society without problems.

>>44013132
The majority general consensus is that there is a magical floating man in the sky who thinks gays are icky dude. We are talking about people who aren't chimps, are actualized people and can think for themselves based on scientific data. People who can incorporate new information into their world view, instead of doubling down on trad positions.

>>44014080
based and an increasingly rare position desu. the general decline in cognitive function over the last 10 years has been fucking absurd and it wasnt good to begin with. the opinion of the majority is always wrong.

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>>44008834
>say buzzphrase
>people respond to buzzphrase
>woah woah woah the buzzphrase doesn't mean what it says it actually means this more reasonable other thing!

It's "defund the police" all over again

>>44014080
Is your goal to gain more public acceptance for trans people and fewer hate crimes? Then you do have to speak with the stupid majority and meet them where they’re at. It’s not the intellectuals who want your rights taken away. All this bickering does is push away the cis people who want to see trans rights respected. Ideological purity is always a shitty hill to die on.

And don’t say that it’s impossible to make progress with the masses, because the gays did it.

>>44015935
>Is your goal to gain more public acceptance for trans people and fewer hate crimes?

Objective truth has no goal. It simply is the truth. Moralizing objective reality just makes you look like an animal.

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>>44015935
>the gays did it.

the gays did it by being unapologetically queer and doing terrorism. Stonewall isn't a national monument to playing it safe and hiding all the things people who hate you anyway think is repulsive, its a national monument to rioting if you aren't given the respect society owes you. Trying to convince christofasc types to be your friend as a tranny is both pathetic and retarded.

>>44015978
THIS. The more you just burn shit down unironically the more people take your side: see blacks, gays, trannies

>>44008834
its sadly the truth for the most part. its really no different than a diabetic needing insulin to live and thrive, trannies usually need to troon out to thrive. part of that is being nice to people with severe and persistent mental illness.

>>44015978
>we should just kill everyone who even dislikes us slightly or doesn't agree with us 100% because uhhh... Stonewall!
Amazing

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>>44016028
Yes, the deathtoll of the stonewall riots was truly staggering. As was the death toll of the BLM riots.

Oh wait, you are just a fucking idiot.

>>44016028
>we should kill people

I hate to do this, but you should look up what a strawman argument is. You have basically been BTFO in this thread 4 times and you keep doing shit like this

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>>44008834
Dudes a racist and gay who cares what he thinks?

>>44017668
old youtuber enjoyers from the sargoy days