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very simplified and incorrect take

>>44025442
>Op has never met a zesty ponk gayden

>>44025453
go on

>>44025475
why, so we can inevitably agree to disagree?
im a tomboy. not a conventionally feminine presentation at all.

>>44025491
so you're a man who identifies as a girl who acts like a man..?
so basically you just don’t put in the effort to pass? why even identify as a girl?

>>44025512
i dont want your approval.
>>44025518
because i take hrt and do try for a more feminine presentation. im not full masculine, im going for tomboy not boy. and sometimes i like to dress femme. i do my hair and skincare and voice train.
all gender is is an identity anyway.
you've put me in a corner here. i'm either acting out gender stereotypes, or im just a man. this is why i didnt care to go on.

>>44025548
>all gender is is an identity anyway.
so why do people feel bad when they get misgendered its pretty much just a label of stereotypes you give yourself?
how do you know you're trans instead of something else like non-binary if you're not going by traditionally feminine stereotypes?

>>44025442
yea pretty much. all Gender is performative. Everyone is performing their gender at all times. Our brains are designed to this, and animals too. There is a biological sex base to some different behaviors, but mostly they are conditioning.

People care about social conformity, because conformity is how you make others feel safe and gain acceptance.

People perform gender, and other things too. Linguistics analyzes the semiotics of gender and realizes it is just constantly flagging "I am a guy! or "I am a woman!" because people everywhere care about that.

Unironically if you want to be trutransTM you should seek to actively PERFORM gender if you want social acceptance because thats what every other human does. It just might take more conscious effort because you were conditioned for the opposite performance.

Not a single person "naturally" performs whatever culture's gendered codes are. They practice it from their youngest days, and parents constantly guide children in their performances until they become proficient in that code. Its universal and all encompassing, but the most obvious example is something like... say a dad sees his young son using his sisters barbie doll at 5 years old with his action figures to tell a story. He sees this and asks the son quizically: "Why are you playing with the barbie doll? Thats for your sister, shes a girl!". The child considers this and says "Oh." and stops playing with the barbie doll. Children are very impressionable and just a small bit of unconscious pushback (its odd that you play with the barbie!) reinforces that that behavior is abnormal. After 10000 interactions like this through childhood a persons gender performance becomes very proficient. The very act of buying action fingers for the son and barbies for the daughter is instructing children in gender performance.

It is not creepy or weird that a trans person goes out of their way to train their gender performance.

>>44025634
i consider nonbinary in the trans umbrella in some circumstances. maybe i am nb. trans woman feels right.
>why do people feel bad?
gendered society. people associate things with girls and boys, and we want to be seen as girls and boys. this is the performance of gender. you may not recognize it but you also perform your gender as a cis person. you just dont recognize it or have a problem with it because you dont have a problem with your agab.
besides just wanting to be recognized the way you recognize yourself, theres also legitimate safety and social concern. if you're dressed in feminine or masculine clothes, but get gendered the other way around, you sacrifice a lot. socially, professional, and in terms of safety.

>>44025634
There's a difference between "Gender the social construct" which is entirely made up and dependent on cultural context and "Gender the internal perception" which evidence suggests is developed in early childhood and is innate.

Sex is not binary, it's bimodal. Even the definitions of "male" and "female" rely on a socially constructed ideal that presents statistical norms as moral or definitional norms, which... Is not how taxonomy or scientific definitions work.

So yes gender is bullshit but your internal perception of gender is real and valid and anyone who disagrees is a stupid chud faggot

>>44025656
isn't it weird to claim that you're a woman just because you like stereotypically feminine things? like a boy who likes barbie dolls can just be a boy who likes barbie dolls instead of pretending he is actually a girl.

>>44025725
Isn't it weird for you to be on the Internet without a girlfriend, you sexless chud nigger?

>>44025725
It depends if that boy feels like being a gayboii who likes dolls is who they are or if they feel they a woman.

You however decided to wake up and be a dumb faggot, which is the worst of all genders.

>>44025751
>>44025773
im just trying to understand your perspective. why so hostile?

>>44025725
>can just be a boy who likes barbie dolls
yes, he can just be a boy
my point earlier. i like boy shit but im a trans woman.
internal gender identity is all that matters. we're not prescribing shit onto people for breaking gender norms.

>>44025442
the universe is infinite in time and space and you think biology would be different? as above so below. we'll have robots soon

>>44025782
how do you define the "internal gender identity" though? like how do you know?

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>>44025442
Judging by this thread, cis people percieve men and women as just a collage of stereotypes

>>44025793
just whatever somebody tells me they are i guess. Youve got assigned sex at birth, and youve got gender identity.
you can be male but that doesnt necessarily mean you feel like a man.

>>44025794
cis people don't consider gender identity to be a valid thing. a woman acting like a man is still a woman even though she doesn't act like a stereotypical woman.
lgbt people claim that all it takes to be a woman is to act like the stereotype of a woman, or so it seems.

>>44025725
I claim I'm woman because I'm a woman. Gender is a "walks like a duck, talks like a duck" thing. Some people aren't as proficient in their performance or are unlucky with genetics and aren't treated like women because they don't pass.

If you are on a good HRT regimen and performing the social role of woman with even a low but functioning level of proficiency you are a woman because gender IS performative.

I look at it from a linguistic lens, but there are other lens too. But linguistics is where the "performance" thing comes from.

Sex is "medically induced intersex". That is, I have an intersex condition induced by medication to make me more comfortable in my body. I have XY genes and went through male puberty but have breasts, lactate, very low testosterone, estrogen based hormonal profile, and look like an (ugly) woman. I have cellulite because of my female skin, I have a hips and a fat ass because of my female fat distribution. The data for male and female phenotypes is contained in both XX and XY genes and is constructed based on the hormonal exposure of the body.

This is why Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome children have fully formed and functional vaginas despite having only a half formed uterus and no undescended testes. When a fetus lacks the ability to use testosterone to run the "male" program it follows the estrogens signal to construct a vagina.

Genes are basically like scripts to execute certain cellular functions, hormones are like the mouse pointer of the user clicking on them. You need both to get the body to do anything.

>>44025801
so its just completely vibes based?

>>44025819
almost everything in society is vibes based. literally everything. if it has to do with culture, language or expression it is vibes all the way down.

>>44025827
I wouldn't say that’s true. A lot of things have strict definitions.

>>44025512
Hi Labrysanon
Hows fighting the patriarchy going today? Any big wins for feminism?

>>44025794
>bought my dad a hammer for fathers day
>he was happy about it

Stereotypes are generalizations. Most people fit into some stereotypes. The reason stereotypes are bad is because certain assholes treat people badly when they don't conform to those stereotypes or because they refuse to see the person beyond it.

But assuming a getting your Gen X dad a tool for his birthday will be a good gift, and maybe flowers and chocolates for your Gen X mom, is a good gift is probably correct.

>>44025819
sort of, yeah
granted, most trans people do want to "properly" perform their gender like cis men and women do, but that isnt what makes you transgender.
See: manmoders/boymoders. These people are definitely transgender, but for all intents and purposes perform the gender of "man" for one reason or another.
The only thing that seperates a boymoder from a "full time" trans woman is how they perform their gender.

>>44025746
cmon labrysanon, even YOU can't be this retarded

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>>44025793
How do you define the color blue? Do you know that the blue you see is the same as the blue someone else sees?

The perspective that western society labors under is influenced by a judeo Christian smuggling of platonic idealism into moral aesthetics. We're taught that there is such a thing as a ln "authentic" woman and "authentic" man, based off some ideal, or failing that, material biological reality.

This is just wrong. Authenticity in gender doesn't exist. There's no such thing as a "real" punk or a "poser" punk, the "cool kids" table at middle school or a "true goth" - these are all made up terms that are striving for the false idol of authenticity within the development of individuation, and in order to cobble that feeling of authenticity together they innately create a category of "us" and a category of "them".

You could read Hagels "Phenomenology of Spirit" to read more into this. In order for there to be a king, one must have peasants, which creates an innate power structure between these two classes invented by mere perception and happenstance of history that is no more authentic than any definition of us and them.

It all stems from that same desire for the authentic, but we live in a state of absurdity - a seemingly innate desire for the authentic meaning in an uncaring and meaningless universe.

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>>44025836
>all things have strict definitions

this nigga never tried to define a chair and it shows

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_forms

Literally so few things have strict definitions its crazy. Is a hot dog a sandwich? Is cereal a soup? Is coffee a soup? Is a chair a square table with a backrest? Is a chair anything you sit on? Is a tree stump a chair? Is a chair refined materials with legs in an elevated position for sitting?

The whole strict definition thing genuinely exists for so few things its madness trying to appeal to definitions. There are things that do (an element in physics has a specific arrangement of particles and nuclear weight), a number in maths, but not something like Man, or Chair, or whatever. These unironically are "if you see it you know it" type definitions and the dictionary gets close enough to have practical utility without getting into metaphysics.

>>44025801
>someone telling you who they are
that's no longer acceptable unless you're privileged enough. now we must have others tell us who we are and you better not get in their way no matter how disingenuous and manipulative they are. it's not what you know, but who likes you.

>>44025894
i love how two seperate people read "almost everything" and "a lot of things" and made the same mistake of "oh so you mean EVERYTHING?"

>>44025793

women are more flowery
men are more adventurous

its really that simple

>>44025836
Name one.

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>>44025910
sorry I'm conditioned by the matt walsh "what is a woman argument" and leapt to conclusions without taking the time to comprehend your post. :<

>>44025891
>How do you define the color blue
It corresponds to light with a wavelength between 450 and 495 nanometers.
>Do you know that the blue you see is the same as the blue someone else sees?
Doesn't matter because its still blue based on the definition even if you were colourblind.

>Authenticity in gender doesn't exist.
So what is the utility in identifying as a gender if it has no authenticity? Why even have genders instead of referring to people as sexes like people used to?

>>44025836
A lot of things are vibes based though. Certainly things related to identity are 100% vibes based. Stuff like math, physics, engineering aren't but there isn't really an objective truth answer to "what is a woman" because everyone has a marginally different understanding and experience of womanhood.

>>44025922
nta but 'death' and 'triangles' come to mind

>>44025934
>so what is the utility in gender?
sigh. i should've never gone on. the conversation always boils down to bioessentialism.
its because i dont wanna be my sex. i wanna be a woman. thats it. and millions of people around the world for generations across culture have felt this way.

>>44025934
blue actually looks different to everybody since every bodies brains virtualize reality slightly different

Like many other parts of the body, brains are sexually dimorphic. Gender is the sex of your brain. Transsexuality is an intersexual condition where the brain and the rest of the body doesn't match in sex.

>>44025922
Sexes?

>>44025960
are you trying to bait the intersex anons in here

>>44025966
thats a spectrum though.. theres like a dozen abnormal ones in between the binary ones. and in animals the values that relate to sexes varies wildly. sex is not very certain at all

>>44025793
Can you define "anger" without using any synonyms for "anger", without excluding any forms of anger, and without including any non-anger emotions, please? How about "happiness", or "sadness"? You can't because we cannot define mental states, due to them only existing internally.

>>44025954
>its because i dont wanna be my sex. i wanna be a woman.
but, no offence, is this not just delusion?
like if I don't want to be my race I can't just change it by applying face paint and acting like an african. I have to just accept the reality of the world and my situation in it.
or if someone has body dismorphia and wants to look more muscular, they are considered mentally ill and need therapy rather than agreeing with their delusion and offering them steroids for example.

>>44025968
I see transsexuality as an intersex condition. Female brain and male body and vice versa are both, by definition, intersex conditions, even though a lot of people disagree.

>>44025934
>So what is the utility in identifying as a gender if it has no authenticity?

Because we do it. Simple as. As humans the performance of gender is important to us, likely to due biological inclination. In the animal kingdom they also perform gender, its just more closely linked to sex because they aren't as complex creatures. Being a performance doesn't mean its inauthentic. Many transwomen are authentically performing the gender of women.

An inauthentic performance would be like a guy who says "i am a woman" and walks into a womans changing room just to try to own the libs, not a transwoman or transman who might try and fail to be seen as their preferred gender.

Homosexuality and gender confusion exists in animals like birds and fish too, they just aren't complex enough to create weird ideologies where deviation from this means we build a society and kill the non conformist

>>44025934
Dude you're a faggot.

Why are those wavelengths specifically blue? Why not higher or lower on the register? We used to not have a single universal word for the color blue. In homers oddessy we the ocean is called "wine dark"

So where does blue begin and whine dark end?

So back to my other question - are you sure the blue you see is the same as others? Or are you seeing "wine dark"?

People have never used sex to identify people, that's retarded and you should feel like a fucking invalid. You're telling me that people have always used XX and XY to define someone's gender? You're telling me that you know the biology of everyone you meet?

This is a retard chud argument. "Trans people have never existed it used to be all about sex" while in the background other chudes are literally erasing millennia worth of history about trans and intersex people that have always existed.

"I was brainwashed by society to believe that trans people don't exist after centuries of complicit erasure and genocide of gender nonconforming people around the world. Therefore trans people are Marxist propaganda"

Fuck off chud

>>44026017
i agree. we just need to map brains out better.

>>44026040
No trans person believes this. On the contrary, most transsexuals are fine with gender–non-conformity.

>>44026032
>Why are those wavelengths specifically blue?
Because it was defined as such.
>Why not higher or lower on the register?
Because it stopped appearing blue higher or lower.
>are you sure the blue you see is the same as others?
But again the exact perception of the colour doesn't matter since we defined it. If I'm colourblind a blue shirt is still a blue shirt.
>You're telling me that people have always used XX and XY
Well penis haver and vagina haver yeah.

>>44025996
Here's a fun fact. Race is also a social construct.

In the United States we had something called the "one drop rule" which means if there was one drop of nigger blood then you're a nigger. But in south Africa there was a different standard of race, where fully black people are black, mixed people are "colored" and white people are white.

Race is a social construct, and no offense, but off yourself faggot.

Now, I will assume for a moment you're not a retard and answer the obvious fake caring bullshit you're spouting. Let's say it is a mental illness for the sake of argument. Being trans is some kind of medical disorder that requires intervention.

What you're suggesting is called conversion therapy and it doesn't work. The only effective treatment for trans people is transitioning, this is proven medical data that every major medical organization supports, and if you actually cared about the lives of queer people you'd read into it, but you don't care you're just pretending to care because it helps you force heteronormative ideals on people better if you pretend to give a fuck.

>>44026095
>Race is also a social construct.
But that was my point. Race is a social construct but you don't just get to choose your race do you?
I can't choose to be african even if I act like a stereotype of an african and change my appearance to look more african.

>>44026096
I've been trans for over a decade and I've literally never seen this. Can you show me any evidence of this happening?

>>44026032
its impressive. clearly we're meant to be here, since we're still going strong, even after eugenics and genocide

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>>44025996
>like if I don't want to be my race I can't just change it by applying face paint and acting like an african.

this is a big spook for most trans people because race politics are way more charged and sensititive but if you genuinely adopted the language, appearance, and codes of an ethnicity you would basically be that race. Race is also a very vibes based thing. Humans are actually not very diverse at all compared to other animals, there are no human sub species living today.

picrel is a black couple that had a fully white baby (before you ask, yes DNA tested those are the parents it happens somewhat often). That baby will likely grow and be treated as "white", despite being "black".

If we had that ability to transition race as easily as sex people would probably do it more. There are transracial people, but they tend to be shit on for being racist. A lot of them ARE racist. There ARE problematic trans people who clumsily adopt some of the most disgusting female stereotypes as their personality and people don't like them. Clumsy performances are offensive to everyone, even people who "are" that demographic. Think of the upper class educated black man who grew up sheltered and listening to 80s dad rock trying to performatively appear black enough to fit in with other black man by clumsily trying to reference black pop culture and failing. Clumsy performances are always upsetting, because society demands proficient performances to accept someone as from that category.

tl;dr transracial people do exist but trans people dont want to grok with it because it feels icky to talk about

>>44026115
That's because brains have sexual dimorphism, but not racial variation. A white person cannot have a Japanese brain, for example, but a male can have a female brain.

>>44026083
Circular logic. Why is it defined as such? Is language proscriptive or descriptive? You're a dumb faggot.
What does it mean to appear to be blue? Define it without using circular logic 'Because I said so HURRRR"
You're a dumb faggot.
Why does the perception of blue not matter?
You're a dumb faggot.
Intersex people have always existed, trans people have always existed, you can have a penis and have XX chromosomes.

You're a dumb faggot.

>>44025996
for me no, this is not a delusion.
I came to this conclusion a decade ago and just tried to shove it down. All shoving it down did was make me feel worse and worse.
living my life has been the greatest thing ive done for myself

>>44025491
>>44025548
Tomboys are unequivocally biological, ACTUAL women. You faggots lie about everything and pretend like it's science as you invent and misuse every label you can. Stfu.

>>44026148
races do have slightly different brains. and while I agree that a white person probably cant have a japanese brain, what makes you think a male can have a female brain? I thought gender was just a social construct, not a biological difference.

>>44026115
You can move freely between social constructs as much as you want. The issue is race has material definitions that come down to heritage and ancestral history. That's why you can change and be a woman, but you can't identify as an African descendant of slaves if your ancestors where not slaves.

Dumb faggot.

>>44026186
now is that helping or hurting anon

>>44025453
Not really.

>>44026115
>But that was my point. Race is a social construct but you don't just get to choose your race do you?

Some people do, but its irrelevant. There are real, solid objective factors that differentiate transgender people with gender dysphoria from other people who adopt something like a new race or identity.

Science is showing there is a biological basis for this desire to adopt a female social role and have a female body. There isnt a massive body of study that shows that for people who desire to transition race it is healthy for them.

The reason that transition became such a support treatment for people with gender dysphoria over the decades of study of transgender people (by predominantly white cis men btw) is that it WORKED. People felt better, they had higher quality of lives and their depression improved. From a clinical perspective gender/sex transition as a treatment for GD is an effective treatment. Thats just objective fact, and that separates it from something like Body Dysmorphia Disorder which tends to get WORSE with beautification surgeries. BDD patients are typically barred from accessing cosmetic surgery because they report massively high rates of regret and dissatisfaction, where as trans people report massively high rates of happiness and success from the surgeries. Of course, this is just for Gender Dypshoria people, it doesn't apply to someone who might transition just for the aesthetics or incel reasons or whatever but imo the jury is still out that these people aren't just coping with GD in insane ways because transgender ideation is fairly understood at this point.

Transracial identities my fall more in like with BDD and quality of life may not be improved by race affirming surgeries. That said, if we found out that they do maybe society after years of research and understanding would come around on it. Or it wont, because it doesnt. Transracial identities aren't well studied and usually only sought out by oddballs.

>>44026203
>The issue is race has material definitions that come down to heritage and ancestral history
But gender also has material definitions based on sex.

>>44026208
Quit asking dumb questions.

>>44026197
It can be both, dumbass. Gender is fake, gender perception is a real internal qualia, and brain scans have shown some biological evidence of brains having a more innate gender.

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>>44026213
No it doesnt. Sex and Gender are separate. Gender is just a performance. They are related, but a male sexed person can absolutely successfully perform the female social role. People do it all the time as a joke. Trans people do it full time because they actually become women.

>>44026223
youre getting a bit emotional anon. maybe you should take a break and some deep breaths?

>>44026210
i think the most important difference is yeah, treatment for gender dysphoria that involves affirming that gender reports very high rates of satisfaction

>>44026229
>hey are related, but a male sexed person can absolutely successfully perform the female social role
Is this not like saying if you act like an African as a joke then you actually become African race temporarily?

>>44026213
1) no it doesn't, gender roles have changed significantly across time and culture. 2) any definition based on a sexual binary is wrong because sex is not binary.

>>44026260
Gender roles are based on sex though. Thats why trans woman wants to look like a naturally female sex person using surgery etc.

>>44026259
No it's not, rope yourself.

>>44026232
Do you actually know literally anything?

>>44025442
"Gender" is a made up ideological category. There's only sex.

>>44026259
no.
transracial has no basis in science.
race is determined by genetics and ancestry. gender is a mix of biology, neurology, and identity.

>>44026197
Gender is absolutely not a social construct. I don't care what people say; it's neurological. If it were a social construct, we wouldn't see genetic inheritance like we do, and people like David Reimer wouldn't be cissexual.

The differences between the brains of different races and ethnicities are minimal and not biologically tied to that race. There's no real difference between one ethnicity and another past groupings of specific genetic traits—skin colour, face shape, hair texture, etc.—based on the adaptations needed for different environments.

There's, however, a massive difference between males and females, and many parts of the brain are sexually dimorphic. Brain scans on transsexuals show that, even before sex correction (HRT and whatnot), transsexual brains lean closer in dimorphism to their internal perception of their gender than they do to their external sex. This shows that transsexuality is an intersex condition and that gender is neurological in nature.

>>44026288
youre the one who told me to stfu for being a tomboy
you dont seem to know how to regulate ur emotions and just need a little help anon

>>44026298
>transracial has no basis in science
pot...

>>44026267
Ok, so - try to follow me on this retard. if gender roles have changed across time and culture, but gender is based on sex, then do we somehow have our biological sex evolve every time gender roles change? Do different cultures have a different sex?

You have one of two options. Be a retard, or accept that gender is a performance.

>>44025891
jesus christ trannies lol
all this convoluted cope just because you want to be able to try and trick straight men into fucking you without it being called rape huh

>>44026314
You're too stupid to understand the argument.
Nigger.

>>44026259
>Is this not like saying if you act like an African as a joke then you actually become African race temporarily?

If you passed then yes. But there is a difference between "trapping" someone and something like doing drag. The problem here is just semantic. There is the social role of "African" and the genetic lineage of "African" which are two separate things.

The vast majority of transwomen aren't pretending they aren't genetically male or whatever unless they are trying to stealth. There have been cases where people did successfully socially transition their race, but when people find out they usually get really upset because race is an incredibly sensitive topic in the modern era.

People tend to shit on Rachel Dolazal (she was REALLY crazy if you actually research the story she wasnt just a normal person who wanted to be black) but she was treated as black by tons of people, read as black, accepted into a broader black community. For the people who were "fooled" by her performance she was just a black woman.

>>44026304
>This shows that transsexuality is an intersex condition and that gender is neurological in nature.

For some people*

just wanna asterisk that because people transition for a variety of reasons. There is absolutely room for nuance that not all trans people are this type of neurologically atypical person and some of them are.

>>44026329
Yess daddy subscribe to my onlyfans mnnnngggg every woman wants your slimy fat chud nigger dick goddd please be more of an insecure dickless looser it turns me on so much

>>44026314
except we've literally studied transgender and have scientific basis for treating transgender people the way we do. we have since the 1920s.
dick and pussy isnt all there is to human sex and gender.
why do i bother. i knew this thread was going down the bioessentialist rabbit hole since first post.

>>44026312
I told you to stfu for lying. You're not a tomboy. You're a lying faggot with makeup on trying to piss on everyone's leg while you pretend to be the grown-up in the room instead of the hormonally hyperactive mantoddler I think you are.

>>44026316
Gender is based on sex insofar as, if you want to perform the gender performance of a woman then you are performing the act of a stereotype of the female sex.

>>44026292
And sex is also a made up category that doesn't align with biological reality. Sex is not binary, men can get pregnant.

>>44026369
Yeah, yeah, pseudoscience doesn't go over as well as you wish it did. We've heard.

>>44026371
>hyperactive man toddler only getting angrier
>"i think"
like i said, youre being awfully emotional rn

>>44026379
Aaah ok, so gender is a performance inspired by stereotypes constructed by society commonly associated with a statistically normative distribution of sexual traits.

.... Gender is a social construct you dumb nigger.

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>>44026329
Actually, legally, lying about your birth sex is considered lawful seduction and isnt rape. Maybe its immoral to lie, but it isnt rape. Simply not disclosing it like any other medical condition further is even less immoral, because having casual sex is not intimate enough for most people to disclose personal health information or deeply held traumas.

>>44026390
cis people experience gender dysphoria too, but i guess they're more valid than me because im a tranny.

>>44026395
Quit projecting faggot. How many female hormones did you shoot up into your legs today before you came on here accusing others of getting emotional? That's a really lame cop out.

>>44026390
If you have to become a Nazi and burn books to stop "psyedoscience" then

Well I mean I guess you do you Nazi chud nigger

>>44026417
>cis people
Not a thing.
>experience gender dysphoria too
Not really.
>i guess they're more valid than me because im a tranny.
You elected to be a tranny. Skill issue.

>>44026424
Rope yourself faggot

>chud only responds to the posts calling him a nigger and retard
>all my effort posts get ignored

idk why I wasted my time 4chin :(

>>44026425
>thats a really lame cop out
because im not debating you on my own identity and performance.
>>44026424
>anti gay bigot
lol hi gincel
>>44026438
david reimer. RIP poor guy.

>>44026425
Chus nigger no girlfriend neck beard grindr chaser loser faggot

>>44026408
>Gender is a social construct you dumb nigger.
I wasn't saying it wasn't. The post was saying gender is just performing stereotypes of sexes. And it was stated to me through the thread that its just based on vibes.

>>44026438
Reddit mod energy. "Um aschiallyyyy"

>>44026446
me neither i've kind of stopped trying. i think OP is probably curious but not curious enough to actually change their mind.
seems like they had their mind made up before posting and now the "niggers" "retards" and "faggots" are the interesting posts.

>>44026446
People on this site are so emotional. They van't have a reasonable debate; they only pay attention to whatever makes them angry. I'm not surprised, since I've used 4chan for a while, but it is annoying to write long paragraphs and get ignored in favour of people calling OP slurs.

>>44026446
If you were the person who did the transracial post I read it and found it interesting but I didnt have anything to say in response.

>>44026476
Not really. The tranny is saying he's "ackshually" a tomboy, over and over. Read the thread before you butt into a convo.

>>44026461
Ah ok. Might have insulted you thinking you where a different poster.

But yeah that's what gender is. You can say it's inspired by the proclivities that are statistically associated with sex, but there's such a variation across culture and time that basically it's meaningless vibes based bullshit.

Let people be who they want and do whatever it literally doesn't matter we all die there's no god.

>>44025442
guy I have no idea anymore it seems like an immutable characteristic to me, I tried to not be a transwomen for so long but my brain just never stopped reminding me that I'm a women.

>>44026515
I read enough. "Hurrr not really sure uhm but actually no"

Bet you donate to twitch streamers you little faggot chud

>>44026529
>my brain just never stopped reminding me that I'm a women
how did it do that?

>>44026481
You know what's really annoying? People writing long paragraphs of phony BS using gobbledygook terms like "chud" as though they should be taken seriously whatsoever. There's good reason people don't read that shit.

>>44026547
How does your brain understand the color blue? How does your brain know that you're depressed? How does your brain know that you're a nigger?

It's a qualia. A phenomenological experience. It just is.

>>44026389
>men can get pregnant
bad bait
>>44026369
>have scientific basis for treating transgender people the way we do
i. No we don't
ii. It wouldn't make transsexuality as a concept have "a basis in science"
>bioessentialist
lold

>>44026552
I didn't write any bullshit like that, personally. I don't like wasting my time reading that drivel, either.

>>44026566
>How does your brain understand the color blue?
I feel like this is different because its external stimuli.
>How does your brain know that you're depressed?
I feel that often it doesn’t.

>>44026570
Yes we do
Rope yourself nigger chud
You sound like you could get pregnant you little faggot bottom

>>44026570
Transsexuals have sexually dimorphic traits in the brain that better match their gender than their birth sex. Studies also show that transsexuals' lives improve greatly after corrective treatments like hormones, sex reassignment, etc.

>>44026608
>Studies also show that transsexuals' lives improve greatly after corrective treatments like hormones, sex reassignment, etc.
before or after suicide?

>>44026570
>nuh-uh
yuh-huh

>>44026586
So first, read up on how different animals experience color. Also fun fact, women and people with estrogenated systems see colors differently than testosterone dominated systems. The way we experience color internally and the difficulty in expressing that qualia to other people, because of the hard problem of consciousness, is very much a similar experience as the qualia of internal gender.

And yeah, sometimes you don't feel like a woman and you don't realize how depressed that makes you and you just live this empty life. But then you chose to be yourself and be ok with it and it makes one happy. That's how being trans feels, similar qualia as the way your brain experiences depression.

>>44026593
Don't let it kill you
>>44026608
>Transsexuals have sexually dimorphic traits in the brain that better match their gender than their birth sex
No they don't
>Studies
Sociology is a pseudoscience field and everyone knows it.
>>44026636
I'm sorry tranny but I won't let you get away with saying the sun rises in the west.

>>44026616
Definitely after you commit suicide. I think everyone would be better off.

>>44026655
Nu-uh
Your virginity is psyedoscience.

>>44026687
Calm yourself ma'am

>>44026695
Nigger

>>44026616
I know that this question was not asked in earnest, but I'm going to treat it like it was because I hope that you can learn something from this Godforsaken thread. Suicide attempt rates go down significantly after transsexuals go through corrective treatments like hormones and surgeries. Most of the attempts in the "41%" rate that I know you're just itching to site are before transition.

>>44026655
You're the most insufferable self important dunning kreuger in this thread, I feel sad that I put any effort into talking to an obvious fucking retard. The only response you deserve is a single word.

Nigger.

>>44026647
But I only know something is blue for example because I have been presented with an object that is blue before and told that its blue and I've seen objects that are not blue and told they are not blue as a young child.
For gender, whats the equivalent? How do you know internally that you are a gender if you don't have a frame of reference to compare how it feels to a different gender? Like you said that your brain is telling you that you are this gender.
I don't personally feel that way myself about my gender, I just exist I don't try to act a certain way, which I why I ask.

>>44026655
I can show you studies, if you want. Brain scans prove this.

>>44026722
Ma'am you need to stay calm
>>44026731
Sure.

>>44026729
I mean like truth be told that's a really really fucking good and hard question to answer. I'll treat it seriously and give a few different answers at different levels of articulation.

1) the same way that you know that you're... Idk a man or whatever you are.

2) everyone has their own experience that is exactly like that. You see things in media that express what a woman is, how women should be treated, what a woman is allowed and not allowed to do. But you feel this implicit threat from society, a pressure to conform, a spoken or unspoken understanding that not conforming is dangerous and you must be what society tells you to be. It causes a significant amount of emotional dissonance, and sometimes you perform societies given role and you're happy. Happy at success or money or social acceptance, but it's a fleeting feeling and you're left with this feeling of wrongness that just doesn't go away no matter how hard you try.

Then people deal with it in different ways. For me I became curious and dissatisfied with the conversation about gender. I wanted to express myself more fem, but just wasn't capable of doing that while I was being a guy. I don't know what it is, it just didn't click. There wasn't a feedback loop. I felt like a clown, and I was somewhat angry and argumentative about being gender critical and would set out to argue about it but didn't truly work through all my thoughts and feelings until I just ...

Accepted it.

It wasn't until I was on estrogen and experienced a different worldview from the way it impacted my thoughts and feelings that I realized - this is what Ive wanted this whole time. I didn't feel complete without it.

That was, in sort of... Epistemological terms, Theopneustos. Illumination. Divine inspiration. A truth that I experienced fully inside my own perspective in a way that I simply cannot question because it was experienced so vividly.

And then I knew.

>>44026753
Nigger

>>44026841
Yeah yeah I get it, I can read between the lines... You can slobber on my cock if you want it so much I guess
disc: roman_asille.sbi

>>44026729
So the answer is - you don't fully know. Everyone who is transgender likely just... Lives with some level of absurdity. You just accept that this is right for you and that if it makes you happy then it's good enough.

3) I personally have a theory about the way perception and behavior can create different hormones, and that someone is transgender because their brain craces a certain hormonal balance that their body simply isn't able to create naturally. Sometimes accepting your desire to be feminine is enough, sometimes you need exogenous hormones to do it. But there's something innate inside the brand, linked with self perception that mingles with gendered hormones in a similar way that dopamine and serotonin are linked to well being and depression.

>>44026880
Typical male insecurity. It's disgusting to see men revel within their own pathetic fragile masculinity and the obvious feelings of a desperate need for acceptance and their inability to get that acceptance. Rather than look into itself and realize what a piece of shit it is, the man dehumanizes and degrades the things it also wishes to sexualize because of what a pathetic lil ricked man baby nigger they really are.

>>44026040
No rational tranny believes this. Anyone that does should be ignored and shunned
OR
you're jumping to your own conclusions based on assumptions about people you don't like. you're reaching hard
>>44026096
I'll take "Things I made up in my head to be mad at" for $500 Alex

>>44025512
Oh yes it does you're just too stupid to understand it

>>44026753
>Sure.
Sorry for the long wait; I got a bit busy.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609521004252

This study is on sexual dimorphism of the brain and finds that transsexuals' brains do not directly match their birth sexes. It doesn't find that their brains completely match their gender identities, but it does show an obvious neurological atypicality.


https://www.ese-hormones.org/media/ei0psrhz/transgender-brains-are-more-like-their-desired-gender-from-an-early-age.pdf

This study showed that the brain activities of transsexual people more closely resemble that of their gender identities.

>>44026971
get ready for the nuh-uh

>>44025555
Yes it does you're just too ignorant to understand it.

>>44025634
Traditionally feminine stereotypes is what I demands it is correct column stereotypes of the stupid left-wig bullshit attitude. The Stereotype just means you're doing what is normal you idiots

>>44026824
>the same way that you know that you're... Idk a man or whatever you are.
I mean I would say I know what I am because I was assigned it based on my sex, which is the equivalent of knowing blue because I'm told something is blue.
>2)
I see. Thank you for the insightful post.

>>44026971
nuh-uh

>>44025442
Genuinely this is such a braindead take?
>why would you want to align with the gender that you feel comfortable with when you spend nearly 100% of the time as that gender

>>44026971
Big if true

>>44025442
If cis ppl think this about trans people they would've hated the old way of doing gender identity

>>44026971
I'm curious for the result with autistic cis persons as a control group

>>44027018
erm thats not what the post said doe

>>44026942
Don't 41 on me tranon...

>>44027018
you only feel uncomfortable with physical maleness because of internalized homophobia that you euphemistically call "gender dysphoria"

>>44027065
>the old way of doing gender identity
the old way is just that you are your sex. what do you mean?

>>44027107
erm actually im very proud and open about about gay prior to my transition and while i boymode
Im just a tranny dude its not that deep

>>44027107
There are a lot of trans people—most, in fact—who were straight prior to transitioning. I, personally, am a trans man and I wanted to be a boy when I was in kindergarten, long before I even knew what being gay or straight was. Was that homophobia on my part? If so, how? If not, why have I consistently had a male internal identity since I was a little child? My parents were never accepting, so they didn't brainwash me. My teachers were also not accepting, so they didn't brainwash me, either. It would seem as though it's intrinsic to me and to my being, because I've always felt this way and there's no other explanation. How can you explain that away as internalised homophobia?

>>44027128
>the old way is just that you are your sex
What country are you from?

>>44027107
This is simply not true, I was completely fine with being a cute twink and fucking men. I just prefer being a woman. I read gay smut more than straight

>>44027478
you are not a woman

>>44027141
i was closeted before transitioning. i was married. but my wife knew i was trans. when she found out i was bi she wanted a divorce. society has people really messed up. i think part of the problem is all of these labels have so much baggage that comes with them

>>44027478
i notice the gay to trans people are different. im all for it, but it is a different breed of trans than me

>>44027555
That's not nice gayden

>>44027555
yet you wouldn't be into "him" for having baby face and tits and effeminate personality

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81 KB PNG

>>44025656
>>44025817
very well articulated posts

>>44025442
In common parlance, “gender” is a polite euphemism for “sex”.
In the academy, “gender” is sometimes distinguished from “sex”, but it isn’t defined at all like you’ve defined it here. It’s only in TERF rhetoric that it’s defined like that.
>>44025725
>isn't it weird to claim that you're a woman just because you like stereotypically feminine things?
I suppose it would be weird … if any one did that—which, to be clear, they don’t.
>a boy who likes barbie dolls can just be a boy who likes barbie dolls instead of pretending he is actually a girl.
No one thinks otherwise. People who object to boys liking dolls don’t want boys who like dolls to pretend that they’re girls—to be clear, every single one of them would object even more strongly to that.
>>44025746
>44026040
>44026096
No one actually thinks this; this is just a belief that TERFs like you invented because it’s rhetorically convenient for you to claim that some people hold it.
>>44025996
A delusion is a belief that someone continues to hold even after they’ve been shown clear or reasonable evidence contradicting it. Desires aren’t beliefs, so they can’t be delusions; they are unable to meet the definition of delusions.
People don’t have to do what you say they do. People are going to continue to take cross-sex hormones whether you like it or not and whether you think that doing so will achieve the goals that you arrogantly presume that the people who take them are trying to achieve by taking them.
It’s clear that you don’t ask the questions you do in earnest and that you’re not actually interested in discoursing in good faith or even just in accurately understanding what trans people think (even if you ultimately disagree with it). Your goal is simply to repeatedly state your own views and portray trans people as ignorant, delusional, or sexist, no matter what.

>>44028474
ty glegle

>>44027934
im not into trans women because they are homophobic bigots