There is literally no reason to believe that these phenomena share the same causeOne thing that is glaringly obvious to anyone who has spent any amount of time around trannies is that while you will find freaks in both camps, you only find people who are really serious about living as a member of the opposite sex in the MtF campthe FtM camp is just full of traumatized women who think hating being a woman must be what gender dysphoria is, who obviously have no real desire to be or live as menThat's why MtF gigapassoids tend to be happy and integrate well, whereas ftm gigapassoids almost always detransition and start writing screeds on social media about the evils of trans ideology and how evil trans activists and doctors made them bald and uglyIt's also why MtFs almost always disavow any relationship to masculinity and retain the characteristics of their birth gender only out of a sense of obligation or desire to remain closeted, while the vast majority of FtMs want to be nonbinary afab femboys
>>44044016It’s the other way around obviously.Only ftms exist.
>>44044016There are many happy poonchads out there this is dumb
>>44044044Palinget of truke
>>44044016It's actually retarded to assume that it can only happen in one sex much like assuming homosexuality can only happen in one sex. What is making you dysphoric? The mismatch between your brain sex and body? So you have a feminine aspect in your brain by chance, and cis men have a masculine one. So why the fuck would this variation not also happen in trans men? (There is actual proof of this that might even be more robust in studies on trans men's brains)
>people with XY chromosomes can feel like XXMakes sense>people with XX chromosomes can feel like XYDoesn't make sense, they don't have the genetic material
>>44044138the mechanism by which gender dysphoria occurs is not well understood, but what limited evidence exists suggests that (in trans women) it may have to do with insufficient exposure to androgenising hormones in the wombthis hypothesis is bolstered by the existence of conditions like CAIS whereby a male fetus with XY chromosomes but a condition that makes it unresponsive to androgenising hormones causes the baby to develop as outwardly female, albeit with some complicationsthere is no analogous condition whereby a female with XX chromosomes develops male primary and secondary sex characteristics, at best you have intersex conditions where a female is left with hirsutism and a malformed (but still more or less female) reproductive systemwe have no reason to assume that the mechanism by which a male ends up being insufficiently androgenised has an analog in genetic femalesandrogenisation is an additive process, if trans women are created by a lack of androgenisation then there is no reason to assume that such androgenisation could just spontaneously occur in someone without a Y chromosome
Dude surely you've seen dykes who are like one oil change away from being a man.
>>44044146Retard take>>44044664You aren't intersex. You don't have CAIS.
>>44044940holy strawman lmao
>>44044664>but what limited evidence exists suggests that (in trans women) it may have to do with insufficient exposure to androgenising hormones in the wombthere is evidence that the opposite can happen to trans men, where they are affected by excess testosterone in the womb
>>44044955damn that's crazy. source?
>>44044954what do you think a strawman is?
>>44044962https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7031197/
>>44044955Several disorders are caused by too few or too many hormones in the womb, including neurodevelopmental disorders. It doesn't mean you should become the opposite sex (which isn't possible). I feel like trannies never feel like enough of their desired gender and just go mental about it with tons of surgeries and fillers
>>44044940>Retard takeOk pooner
>>44044965the point is not to argue that MtFs are intersex or have CAIS, the point is to offer evidence that androgenisation is an additive processbut go on telling yourself that i'm just larping as intersex, pooners can't into logic ya hate to see it
>>44044974a Y chromosome is basically a shorter X chromosome so you could use the same sort of logic that a trans woman doesn't have sufficient genetic material but a trans man does, only having excess on one chromosome
>>44044016Dysphoria is already a generic catchall that applies to cis normies as well.
>>44044978>the point is to offer evidence that androgenisation is an additive processwhich doesn't prove anything, and see >>44044971
>>44044992I mean the logic i used is shite but it was in jest lolTrvpoons exist but they're incredibly rare
>>44044978Strawman is not a shorthand for "bad argument".
>>44045004no, it is a shorthand for making up a ridiculous version of your opponent to argue against instead of addressing their pointslike you did when you decided to ignore the argument and instead call me an intersex larperur not very good at this :(
>>44044016The vibe I'm getting is that you do significantly more research on mtf issues and give them additional grace because you identify with them.But you characterized FTMs based off memes, a stray article here and there, and 4chan schizos.Which isn't really all that fair of you
>>44045010Did I call you that? No, I was conveying that your argument doesn't make sense. It's a non-sequitur (intersex AMABs exist, therefore MTF transgenderism is proven true)
>>44044997>Depression is already a generic catchall that applies to cis normies as well.>Anxiety is already a generic catchall that applies to cis normies as well.>Autism is already a generic catchall that applies to cis normies as well.only when you ignore the clinical definition!
>>44044050>many
>>44045038there you go again, trying to sweep the actual argument under the rug and replace it with something that's easier for you to argue againsthow very tumblr of uthe point, which has already been explained to u multiple times by now, is that conditions like CAIS bolster the hypothesis that androgenisation is an additive processhence there is a plausible, if still poorly understood/evidenced, explanation for how an AMAB person ends up with some kind of brain-body mismatch wrt to their sexno such hypothesis exists for how an AFAB person with no Y chromosome experiences some kind of spontaneous androgenisation when their body literally lacks the capacity for itthe entire notion of AFAB gender dysphoria is based off of an assumption that if something occurs in males, it must also occur in femalesfor all we know, gender dysphoria is like prostate cancer. and the way most FtMs go around behaving only seems to bolster that notion
>>44045073>that androgenisation is an additive processthat trans men experience in the womb anyway
>>44045073>no such hypothesis exists for how an AFAB person with no Y chromosome experiences some kind of spontaneous androgenisation when their body literally lacks the capacity for itSeems like some sort of cope. There are several ways that an AFAB may masculinize, not even just by exogenous hormones.
>>44045089without an SRY gene? unlikely>>44045104see above
>>44044016>Why does everyone just assume without proof that gender dysphoria occurs
>>44045040cis people can't have depression, anxiety or autism?
>>44045125You don't need an SRY gene to masculinize. Hirsutism is an example of masculinization. AFABs can have abnormally high amounts of testosterone for a myriad of reasons. The genetic material to masculinize is still there, hence trans men's bodies change according to exogenous testosterone.
>>44045138could have been worded better. the point is that saying a cis person who feels a bit sad about their gender is experiencing the same thing that a trans person is only makes sense if you ignore the clinical definition. gender dysphoria is more than feeling a bit down in the dumps about having to shave or having a period or whatever, it is defined as a profound sense of discomfort over one's sex characteristics that impacts ones ability to function in daily life. people use the same argument to say that depression isn't real and doesn't need treatment because "everyone feels sad sometimes", same for anxiety, autism, and a whole host of other conditions. you ignore the clinical definitions for these conditions and then complain about them being too vague
>>44045152sounds made up
>>44045215If anything, the potential for a trans man to masculinize is greater than the potential for a trans woman to feminize. However, this is not a reason to jump to the conclusion that trans women are le faketrans o algo
>>44044146nobody cares about chromosomes we care about the actual shape of our bodies
>>44044664> insufficient exposureThe choice to use this word implies a value judgement by which trans women were supposed to have been men and are only trans women instead of men because something went wrong.The existence of a trans woman is not a negative thing in and of itself and should not be worded like one.
>>44045339This statement only makes sense for adult transitioners. Give trans teens access to HRT, as it should be, and this argument falls apart.
>>44045508>Give trans teens access to HRT, as it should be, and this argument falls apart.Interestingly, trans women are much more likely to come out later in life than trans men.
>>44045533Gee, I wonder why. Almost like "boys" are punished for femininity much more than "girls" are for masculinity, or something...
