Hi everyone. I'm wondering, is anyone here religious? Of progressive Christianity or any religious view that's pro-LGBTQ? Let's talk about it.I need to vent about my own thoughts on it (sorry...).I've been looking into Christianity lately, going to church, and I overall really like its message of being kind & forgiving, avoiding conflict, greed, lust, and hate. Those aren't exclusive to Christianity of course, but Christianity feels right to me & brings me hope (I've felt depressed & worried about all the hate \ hedonism in the world for a long time). Yet, I still have issues with it. The main two being:1. Christians are almost universally anti-LGBTQ, obviously.2. If everything is part of God's plan, then how can He be just and merciful while killing and eternally punishing people for things he caused them to do?But after actually reading the Bible some, for the first issue, I've found that the scripture that is used to condemn queer people can be interpreted differently, in a non-homophobic \ non-transphobic way! Or, like many of the old laws given to the Israelites in Leviticus, they longer apply in the same way they did.For the second issue, I don't know why God allows such awful things to happen on Earth, but I believe he must offer people a second chance at redemption after death and / or the eternal punishment described in the Bible is not eternal torture, but instead annihilation & eternal rest (or something similar).(Pt. 1)
In spite of this, progressive Christianity is hard to swallow because so much of the Bible is extremely conservative & pro-conformity, that sometimes I feel like such liberal interpretations of the Bible can't possibly be true. I really want to be Christian, but this dissonance causes me a lot of stress and disbelief. Maybe I should just be a humanist, but Christianity still speak to me. And, honestly, now hat I've dipped my toe into Christianity I'm also afraid of God's wraith if I quit. : (Well, what do you folks think? But more importantly, what are your own experiences with progressive, pro-LGBTQ divisions of religion? All religions welcome.>inb4 all religions are fake and evil!I understand many people (here especially, I'm sure) have had awful experiences with being oppressed & gaslighted by religious people, but that's still a discriminate overstatement and this is not the thread for it. Please do not say that. Rude & hateful comments will be ignored.>inb4 being religious makes you an anti-LGBTQ chud!That's not true. I know that religious institutions have done a lot of harm throughout history, but that's not entirely because of religion and it doesn't have to be that way. I 100% support rights for all of the LGBTQ community.(Pt. 2)
>>44098653
your god is dead and your faith is death, cultist
>>44098653>2. If everything is part of God's plan, then how can He be just and merciful while killing and eternally punishing people for things he caused them to do?You have free will. God being omniscient and knowing what path you take in every timeline doesn't influence your decisions; he lets your choices play out naturally because otherwise the free will would shatter.
i think the way you view and act in the world should follow your beliefs, not determine them.>And, honestly, now hat I've dipped my toe into Christianity I'm also afraid of God's wraith if I quit. : (this is by design. religions are a product of natural selection: they are ideas that are very 'sticky' in human brains. that fear of god's wrath you're experiencing is a survival strategy of the idea that allows it to continue propagating and making other people believe in it.why do you feel you need religion in the first place? why can't you follow your principles for their own sake? i think that's what you're going to end up doing anyway, it's just a matter of whether or not you attach an arbitrary justification to them.
>>44098748>he lets your choices play out naturallyunder mainstream christian thinking, god created the entire universe with full control over every aspect of the universe. per omniscience god knew that creating this exact universe would lead to every event in human history playing out exactly as it has, and must have made the decision to choose this particular universe, thereby choosing every event in human history. alternatively, god randomly chose the initial conditions of the universe, in which case it was still his decision to go with what his random number generator told him to (with full knowledge of the consequences), and in which case you still don't have free will because all your actions are ultimately a product of that random number.
>>44098789blah blah. i have free will because i feel like i have it - and nothing to prove the opposite
>>44098804your feelings are a lie. you feel that you have free will as a necessary result of the way our psychology works and the purpose it serves. the only reason we exist at all is because we're good at making decisions that lead to beneficial outcomes for the organism we are a part of. to make those decisions, we must exist in such a way that we feel there is a continuum of decisions with varying outcomes we 'could' make and weigh those decisions. and from where we're standing, only able to understand reality through the rough statistical model our brains produce, there is a continuum of possibilities. however, actual reality is not a rough statistical model, and there's only one way it's going to play out.
Following because even though I am no longer Christian, I held Christian beliefs for a long time. I'm happy to discuss anything.
>>44098758Thank you for your thoughtful response anon. < 3Yeah, I realize that I'm pretty much letting myself be manipulated by fear. And maybe that fear is there to stop people from questioning the truth. Or, maybe, fear can be a good thing sometimes? It's human nature to disobey authority out of spite, greed, etc. even when it's not in your own interest, so maybe some use of fear is justified? I'm not sure.The reason that I feel that I need religion is because I think I need help to follow my beliefs- I'm weak. I'm 23 now and I've never really been religious before. I've tried to be a good person all my life, but I still frequently end up being mean, self-centered, and getting very depressed. Of course, even Christians will tell you this happens to everyone, because we're only human and it's part of the cycle of sin & forgiveness. But I feel like I need God because even if I can't be perfect, I really need to do better if I'm going to be happy in life and I think that maybe I need divine help to overcome my negative attributes.
>>44098916Oh nice, thank for your time. : )Although you are no longer Christian, do you still consider yourself spiritual?What was the turning point that made you decide to no longer be Christian?Do you ever feel like you need help to be a better person, that you can't do it yourself? That's how I feel, often.Is there anything else about it that you want to talk about? I hope you're having a great day!
>>44099021i think the christians have a point. most people, almost all people i would argue, fall short of their own standards, christians included. in fact i think your average christian, at least in the united states, is statistically going to be a less thoughtful, less considerate, less decent person than your average atheist. there are many exceptions to that rule of course, but it's definitely not a cheat code to upholding your principles. i think, if you want to improve, your best path is ongoing practice and self-reflection. that requires a certain investment of time and energy, and doesn't come with guarantees, but i think in the long term you'll find putting in that energy will reap genuine rewards. i can't know whether converting to christianity would help you in the way you hope it might, but if it did i doubt it could create the kind of lasting change you're searching for. because despite its teachings, up and deciding to follow jesus doesn't make you instantly 'born again'. you'll be the same person you were the day before, maybe with some more energy or motivation, but at what cost? i think of my own mother, who is a devout christian and, yet, an extremely broken person who frequently engages in cruelty, selfishness, and self-destruction. i don't think her being a christian puts her in a position to work on those issues. if anything it detracts from it, because her entire worldview is built on false assumptions which prevents her from seeing things objectively or even recognizing her own flaws. she thinks her bad ideas are inspired by god, and she notes her failures as steps on some divine journey rather than lessons she can learn from.in any case, no matter what you choose, i hope you can grow in the ways you're hoping to anon.
this is a really nice thread and I'd like to talk to you without the retards, drop the 'cord
>>44099203I see what you mean, people certainly do use religious absolution as a means to excuse their problems instead of working on them. And I do need to be careful that I don't end up like that, because although I don't think I would, it's possible. (I'm sorry for your own experiences with your mother and her abusive behavior, I know that must be very frustrating and disheartening.) Thank you, that's helpful. I don't want to build my worldview on false assumptions, but I think Christianity can still be a healthy way to self-reflect and improve? But yes, you're right, religion can be harmful and distracting if taken the wrong way. I appreciate the warning.>in any case, no matter what you choose, i hope you can grow in the ways you're hoping to anon.Thank you, that's very sweet!
>>44099278Me? Sure, thank you, my discord is: Marble_789
>>44098653Firstly, "progressive Christianity" is unequivocally not a thing. The faith isn't here to validate the sin you're living in, but to help you understand how man has betrayed God, and that by faith in Christ alone we are still valid.LGBT is a contemporary, subversive political movement driven by Satan. If you're looking for inroads for it in the Bible, you won't find them. The good news is that being rebuked by the word is part and parcel of being accepted by Christ.>As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.In other words, don't worry about the parts of the Bible that offend you. There are many parts of it I was offended by on my first reading. The more I learn, the more those parts become beautiful to me.>If everything is part of God's plan, then how can He be just and merciful while killing and eternally punishing people for things he caused them to do?Big topic. Atheists are always muddying the waters on this, including itt. As others have said, it's a free will thing. Man's free will is a challenge that God will overcome for glory, therefore he does not always intervene to stop bad things from happening. Man has sought to rule the world and God is letting us try our hand at the wheel.As far as eternal punishment goes, God gave a sacrifice perfect enough to forgive even the most horrible things. Those who truly accept this offer receive a holy spirit inside them. Those who won't accept it are choosing their PRIDE over God, and will suffer the consequences. The only thing that God "rigged" regarding man's fate is the Son he first created knowing He would be sacrificed to save a lesser creation. So when you hear atheists seething about how free will is "cruel" or "fake", what they're referring to (unknowingly in most cases) is that the Father secured His victory from the start by creating the Son. It's a most holy thing, and some people don't think He should remain holy after all that's happened.But He will.
>>44098653If you were a true believer you would stop being 'bisexual' and just go back to being straight and normal (including marrying and impregnating the first single woman you get close with). Sorry, I don't make the rules.
>>44098653great thread, bump>>44098735>>44098730you people believe you are free of sin but you are not
>>44100795it doesn't work like that. your conditions dont make you a sinner, and being a sinner doesn't make you less of a christian
>>44098653>LeviticusBro a Christian using Leviticus to attack the fags is a Judaizer. That's a heresy, one that is explicitly condemned in the Bible itself.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JudaizersThe passage you need to analyse is 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and that's only relative to gay men, not trannies.
>>44098653god created me both a man and woman, god created a male body then a female soul in cohesion and within that same body. in this life, i will weight my sins in the same way he weighted the cross
I am simply too sleep deprived to render proper theological jurisprudence right now. Look into the Church of England and or Episcopalianism, we’ve got lgbtq+ and contraception
god isn't realghosts, ghouls and goblins aren't realtranswomen are malesmales that have sex with males are homosexualit is impossible for transwomen to get a straight cisboyfriend
>>44101856>goblins aren't realWrong. I've seen one.
