AGP isn't even an accepted medical designation. It's an outdated hypothesis that fell out of favor as research progressed. Women experience the same phenomena. Trans women are women. You self-hating idiots are doing nothing more than helping to spread far-right propaganda that's being used to justify our genocide. You're like a Jew saying, "well, I thought I saw Rabbi Moskowitz pouring something into die Wasserversorgung. Stupid fucking loser cucks.
>>44140721What other hypothesis explains why I am aroused by fantasy of being a woman?
>>44140736Being aroused by being pretty is just part of female sexuality. You are a trans women.
>>44140736Gender is by nature sexual sit sits connected to sexual reproduction.
>>44140721Idk i just like cooming to the idea of myself as a woman and i dont have dysphoria. Thats agp.
>>44140721There is a common auto/bisexuality between the AutoGoonerPhiles and the large middle cross-section of women.The difference is in the processing since AGPs still have male brains and experiences. Women are leveraging their AGP in an indirect, taught way to perceive themselves as valuable.Transwomen can abjectly, straight-up masturbate to themselves. The male visual sex target subsystem is reacting quite a bit differently.
nope ur a pervert goober
>>44140769Source: Your ass.
>>44140783I sadly have read too many testimonies of how AGP transwomen experienced their transition...
>>44140755Not by being pretty. By having female body, wearing female clothes, being seen as a woman.>>44140757Sure, but that doesn't explain me.
>>44140794How else would a trans woman imagine themselves as pretty?
>>44140736Just call it a female embodiment fantasy, holy shit have none of you read Serrano at all
>>44140820all this work just to find a reason to prescribe someone hormones that dont even fix you (assuming these researchers are actually somewhat pro-trans in at least some small capacity)
>>44140827What does calling it differently change about its nature?
>>44140721we used to only say agp as a meme now people fucking believe it
>>44140932dw nona i'm sure it will disappear spontaneously for (You)
>>44140736AGP tends to decrease after transitioning as noted by Blanchard himself
>>44141352Yes, that I agree with. But what does that mean?
>>44141404>>44141352My hypothesis is that the feelings we associate with AGP are simply part of our gendered programing--not the right term, but this is a layman's hypothesis after all)--that pushes women to make themselves more attractive to potential partners. Considering that evidence points to trans women having brains with structures that are similar to cis women, it shouldn't be surprising that the feelings with erroneously call AGP begin to fade as our bodies align closer to that very breedable ideal.
>>44141451>erroneously call AGPWhere's the error? It's attraction to self as a woman?
>>44141462it means way more than that though, it's like saying transubstantiation only means a substance is changing
>>44141462Trans women are women. It's not attraction to the self as a woman, it's arousal that relates to your own perceived attractiveness. Again, cis women experience the same feelings. Stop internalizing your agab. That is a label forced upon you by others. Trans women are not men.
>>44141500But it includes things like being seen as a woman which is not about attractiveness.
>>44141522Not at all what decades of research suggests. I know this is a shitposting board, but spreading this disinformation isn't harmless. Trans people are actively under threat of genocide in many parts of the world. It should not be difficult to grasp that a person could be born with a mismatch between their bodies and their minds?We are products of an imperfect process known as evolution by means of natural selection. Our brains and bodies develop at different rates.LGBTQ people should not be helping to spread this garbage.
>>44141500errr yea but- transwomen are not women- their male brain frames the attractiveness as less meta and more AWOOOOGA
>>44141555They’re definitely related concepts. What can prevent one as being seen as a woman (heavier jaw, wider frame) also are things that prevent women from being perceived as attractive.>inb4 so youre saying being a woman is just being pretty????!No
>>44141600I don't think you understand what I mean. If someone considers me a woman and refers to me as she/her. It can feel good and be arousing.
>>44141622Personally I don’t experience sexual arousal when somebody genders me correctly. So I guess I’m just having trouble relating here.
>>44141555You're not putting much thought into this. Think about your material reality. If you were amab, you have the weight of an entire society telling you you are something you are not. Cis women do not usually experience this, but just as >>44141600 mentions, they experience issues with how their body aligns with feminine ideals. How many women have you known who hate their shoulders or complain that they're too tall or have a manly nose? It's pretty common.
>>44141622"She/her" isn't a way of saying, "I think you're a woman". It's a feminine preference we know trannies want.You think boat owners perceive their ships as literal adult afabs?.kek
>>44141632Okay, that's not the biggest trigger, but if I'd dress in some women's clothes, that'd be more arousing. So it seems to me as it's AGP by definition.>>44141639I don't think I get your point.>>44141647It's what women have, so it's attractive to me. Anything related to women, femininity or femaleness, I find hot.
>>44141671>I don't think I get your point.You are a woman who has been told her entire life that she is a man. Of course you're happy and aroused when someone recognizes your actual identity. This is called gender euphoria.
>>44141687Why aren't cisgender people gender euphoric?
>>44141719In a sexual way?
>>44141711Have they been told their entire life that they something they are not? These are questions you should be able to answer in your head as you think about this. Also, I'm not sure I'd agree that cis people do not experience gender euphoria. No one makes a big deal when a women feels elated that she's wearing a pretty dress or when a man feels proud of his big biceps.
>>44141522>>44141500>>44141462>>44141451this is all very tiring discourse. the true answer is that there is no such thing as male or female, its a sociological construct abstracted from our biological understanding of our DNA. the act of transition is a sublimation of another desire. yes its a fetish and no its not abnormal. all humans enact on the impulses of fetish: normative or not.this whole tiring discourse is doing the same ol' thing of applying human understand to the complex webs of the subconscious. you all are fools trying to explore the caverns of the human psyche; the abyss will stare back at you. there is no scientific or moral explanation for why I get excited being called a woman and why being called a male, man and a guy feels alien to me; no psychological analysis will yield an answer no matter how much trauma you trudge up from my past (if any). how can you fools even begin to explain the inexplicable desire that so many of us feel with your graphs, your science, your logic? It is illogical, it is unscientific and purely mystical and mythical. long story short: the act of understanding the root of desire ends up fruitless. only morons play this game.
>>44141711Because we don't feel that pang of joy when you get away with something.Because we're not getting away with anything; we're just here accepting what people throw at us.
>>44141733I personally think its a bit silly to act as if gender isn't tied in someway to biology. We are animals like all others. We reproduce sexually. There must be some sort of innate knowledge that dictates one's role in that process. It shouldn't be surprising that some individuals are born with a mismatch between hardware and software.
>>44140721good
>>44141732Elated or proud. Not aroused. You know that's a big difference? Do you think cis women can orgasm when they imagine wearing a pretty dress?
>>44141836>Do you think cis women can orgasm when they imagine wearing a pretty dress?Yes. See >>44140755
>>44141834I actually agree that I have mismatch between what I desire sexually and sex of my body.
>>44141847Was there an exact question about that in the study and did majority of women said yes?
>cringe moids who act like men, and who desire women like men>but somehow they're women, and women totally get boners wearing lingerie, we swearYeah okay.
>>44140721Part of the reason you can't have an honest discourse about this issue is just the wealth of bad actors you have on this board.>People who promote the theory because they're addicted to self-loathing and it actively harms their mental state to try and think positively of themselvesOvercoming it is a normal part of overcoming trauma/depression etc. but while in the throes of it it's self-reinforcing and annoying.>People who promote the theory because it lets them argue they're different/better than others, so they're pinning self-worth to pushing others downNot like I need to explain the concept of pickmes and mean girls.>People like gincel and random terfs who push it as part of a general anti-trans argumentThey're not really invested in the theory itself, but use the self-loathing bickering based on it as a wedge to argue against the very concept of being trans.>People who just come here to hate trannies broadlyThey don't even understand or know the discourse surrounding the theory, let alone the theory itself. They just pop into threads to jeer and scream, which distracts from actually trying to talk about anything. Many might be reppers or the like who ultimately internalize it to justify the act to themselves, but in the moment they're not mentally engaged at all.
>>44142003>it actively harms their mental state to try and think positively of themselvesWhy is it assumed to be harmful and negative? I am just a man aroused by fantasy of being a woman. It's not the worst sexuality to have, objectively.
>>44142024Here we witness another bad-faith actor, someone who needs to push an anti-trans narrative to justify repping to themselves, and thus tries to drag others into their self-labeling.
>>44142041I am not anti trans? Nobody has to identify as AGP, and if they want to transition, they can and should.
>>44142053You're identify with something that isn't a real thing and is currently being used to harm trans people. AGP cucks are just the Uncle Toms of the trans community.
>>44142165I don't have any better term for sexuality I experienced all my life.
>>44142165>isn't a real thingYou say that, yet every attempt to type trannies results in a reinvention of the two types, inexorably. Even if you discredit Blanchard, throw his entire theory out, you find the same exact notion centuries before by Islamic scholars. And again afterward by people trying to cook up a new formulation. Problem is, the reality of it cannot be escaped.
>>44140721>it doesn't exist but women have it therefore trannies have it too because they are women
>>44142234Just because something sounds plausible doesn't make it true. You are latching on to a discredited and outdated hypothesis proposed by a cis psychologist that's now being used to deny our existence. Please don't be this stupid. >>44142274Holy reading comprehension, Batman.
>>44142332I "latched on" because there is nothing else that would explain it better. I don't care how others use it.
>>44142344You just sound like a trans woman using AGP as a form of denial.
>>44142364Denial of what exactly. According to the research, AGP causes dysphoria and people with it pursue transition. Makes sense to me.
>>44141522Correction:Transwomen are AMAB who (correctly) identify as women.Despite common misconception, Sex and Gender are two different things (as one section refers to the individual's sex-dependent anatomy, while the latter simply refers to one's gender identity. Gender is a malleable concept, unlike a person's sex); therefore, a person who is biologically male can still be a woman.
>>44142392AGP isn't a classification. The act of being aroused by one's self, presentation and body is merely one aspect of female sexuality. You are a woman.
>>44142431You are just feeding it.
>>44142446Yeah, I'll stop :)
>>44142452I obviously know cis women don't get aroused by putting on a bra or something like that.
>>44142468Maybe not a sports bra, but there are absolutely cis women who become aroused from wearing lingerie. You're ignoring the matrial differences between cis and trans women. Trans women are starved of their femininity. Someone who is starving is going to respond very differently to a piece of bread than someone who is well-fed.
>>44142496I admit you have sort of a point, but why am I starving for that in a first place.
I'm just a lonely gooner addicted to the internetA real woman would never fantasize about impregnating other women
>>44142508Because you're a woman, see >>44140820, >>44141451
>>44142541If I am a woman:- why am I a sterotypical male nerd with a computer job- why am I attracted to women and not to men- why am I not feminine nor into feminine things- why did I never fit with women more than men
>>44142569> why am I a sterotypical male nerd with a computer job> why am I attracted to women and not to men> why am I not feminine nor into feminine things> why did I never fit with women more than menI know cis women who fit all of these.
>>44142582Damn, are there many masculine nerdy cis lesbians?
>>44142610They absolutely exist. Socialization does a lot to shape interests.
>>44142618I don't think it was socialization. More like autism.
but, op, my pp goes really hardthat's not how women are you know
>>44140721yes we know blanchard is a fraud"agp" can be a normal and healthy thing for someone to experience, cis or trans
>>44142917then the healthiest person on earth is finnster
>>44140721the real blackpill is that cis women are agp and agps are the trvest transsexuals
>>44140736I loved reading all the replies with stupid mental gymnastics trying to twist AGP into being a female sexuality lolthere is nothing better than AGP that describes my sexuality
>>44140721>trans women are womenbut What is a woman?
>>44140755womp womp
>>44142911Ok, OP, I'll give you my real perspectiveSexual excitement can be memorable but even more it's unstoppable because of libido. The thing is you can repress your feelings many years and don't be a woman (I mean don't identify and act like one in public). So, you live your life, you see girls, you kinda get that you want look and be treated like them, and you'll never get it, you repress, maybe sometimes larp as a girl when you're 13yo. and forget about it. Your sexuality develops at the same time as everybody else, but you don't think like other boys, to be horny you have to imagine yourself like a girl. And the truth is to be happy you also have to be a girl. It always was like this, you just ignored it. Yeah, I have to think that I'm cute and pretty and womanly because otherwise I can't feel horny, and that's not all sex, because there is a partner, pleasure (his and mine). Anons, do you think if a woman will think and feel of herself like a fat, ugly, hairy man she'd come? I don't think so, you have to enjoy yourself! So, there is the trap because of libido you can't escape, and you don't have control over your thoughts, your brain will find the way for release, and it goes only in one way, only if you imagine yourself as a pretty woman.TLDR:Many years I was ashamed of my sexual thoughts, but actually I did a lot of stuff in non-sexual way to be a girl (like larping online when I was teen, watching something girly for myself etc). I tended to ignore that. I was desperate to be a girl.Any thoughts, anons?
>>44143231Did you transition?
>>44143128Seems like the same mechanism responding to different material realities. Oh course cis women aren't framing their arousal in that way. They are treated as women by society.Not much of a womp womp I'm afraid.
>>44140721>AGP isn't even an accepted medical designation.it's literally in the DSMV
>>44140755so much for your study>>44143253>Serano ( 2010 ) summarized this explanation:> It makes sense that pretransition transsexuals (whose gender identity is discordant with their physical sex) might imagine themselves inhabiting the “right” body in their sexual fantasies and during their sexual experiences with other people. Indeed, critics of autogynephilia theory have argued that such sex embodiment fantasies appear to be an obvious coping mechanism for pretransition transsexuals. (p. 184)>This alternative explanation implies, however, that autogynephilic arousal should disappear after hormone therapy and SRS have largely corrected the incongruence between embodiment and gender identity that MtF transsexuals experience. The observation that autogynephilic arousal sometimes, perhaps often, persists after SRS suggests that Serano’s explanation has limited, if any, ability to account for autogynephilic transsexualism.hmmmmmm
>>44143302>autogynephilic arousal should disappear after hormone therapy and SRS have largely corrected the incongruence between embodiment and gender identityHave you considered perhaps that HRT and SRS are not magic and do not actually turn you into a pretty cis woman, and thus the incongruence persists? I'm not who you're arguing with and I don't know what point you're really trying to make, but this text's assumption relies purely on the idea that transition can and always does solve body image issues absolutely, rather than just partially treating the problem.
It's not that you can't comprehend there being two separate identifiable groups, one true trans, one AGP, it's that you do not want a separation because you perceive the latter as a threat to the former. But you're just perpetuating the hatred of the neocons and telling people they aren't what they perceive themselves to be. You're a damn hypocrite, and dooming your entire cause. Try being more open to potential allies instead of thought-policing them.
not even a blanchtard but you have to realize that you're going to inevitably lose if you play by sexologys' rules instead of critiquing what enables such projects as a whole>>44143325>Have you considered perhaps that HRT and SRS are not magic and do not actually turn you into a pretty cis woman, and thus the incongruence persists?picrel>this text's assumption relies purely on the idea that transition can and always does solve body image issues absolutely, rather than just partially treating the problem.not the case at allif anything it concurs with blanchard that transitioning should be a last-resort cope
>>44143428Your pic has nothing to do with the point I made? It just claims, based on a person anecdote, that some tranwoman needed feminization fantasies to get off. What's that got to do with the reality of HRT and SRS not being magic bullets that make you into a cis woman and thus removing body/identity incongruence entirely? You're reaching really far to push this presumption of "If you ever had AGP thoughts you're fake and should never troon" shit, probably to make yourself feel more valid.
>>44143479>Your pic has nothing to do with the point I made?there'd be a significant decrease in incidence; transitioning isn't epiphenomenal>You're reaching really far to push this presumption of "If you ever had AGP thoughts you're fake and should never troon" shiti believe the opposite but go offlike you missed the whole first half of the post>probably to make yourself feel more valid.if agp was real then i'd have it
>Actually I believe the opposite of what I'm arguing and try to prove and...Uh huh.
>>44143585keep being a retard and appealing to the very structures that not only enable but produce our oppression thenyup just go ahead and cite studies and articles i'm sure they'll always be on our side and not epistemically compromised
>>44143248I repped for too long tbhon
>>44143624OP here, I get what you're saying and contend that you may well be right; however, I'm just not willing to throw out research that hints at a biological cause for our transness. Science is no doubt a human creation. It's the very human action of sanctifying our own limited observations and assuming they reflect reality. Science is a white, patriarchal institution like all the others that dominate our society. Nevertheless, unlike religion, science at least has a basis in empirical observation. Its findings should not be wholly discarded. We live in an era in which science is the dominant means of truth. Those findings are important for our fight for validity. We just have to be careful to not allow any restriction on those who don't fit the scientific narrative, something I admit is tricky, given how quickly our community segregates itself into camps like AGP and HSTS.We also need to be willing to fight. A study isn't invalidated just because you can find arguments against it. Counter studies demand stronger research, and that's what needs to be done.I think you discount the need for a larger narrative that some trans people have. One that provide not only an explanation for why we are the way we are, but also a connection to a past that unfortunately has mostly been lost. If a common cause, or even multiple commonalties exist, then at least some of that history remains.
I might feel non-sexual joy seeing something feminine-looking in the mirror but that doesn't mean anythingRealistically it's just a weird form of narcissism fueled by permanent tfwnogf, if I ever had a woman to love me I probably never would have to feel that way
>>44143984spoiler alert: I believe you will feel that way even if you are loved by a woman, and you should look for a woman who also wants you to be feminine
>>44140721Just spam anti-blanchardism to counteract the blanchardism Yo dawg i heard you like (blank) so i put (blank) in your (blank) so you can (blank) while you (blank)
>>44145388What a coincidence that i see this when i went to go save the image
>>44145388>>44145399BRO WHICH SPIRITUAL ENTITY KEEPS GIVING ME DUBS (crying emoji)
>>44140721Anon I don't appreciate this AGP erasure.
>trannies who like men are True and Honest feminine real wombyn>trannies who won't fuck me i mean men are disgusting ugly perverted masculine fake women who ruined everything>it's true because blanchard said so even though he never even said thatI wonder who could be behind the spread of this idea
>>44145460By committing AGP erasure you're also committing HSTS erasure by proxy yes.
>>44140721Not everything that incites suicide for trans people is far-right propaganda. It could be our own affairs that get us to kill ourselves. If you point out any of these, you will have someone with an ego come to give you a learning experience of their character. Here, "enforcing standards of being feminine for optics is bad for you" is a calling for the herd of pristine retards and sociopaths.
>>44143984lol i believed the cis AGP argument before but this is way too much, you feel non-sexual joy as well while looking fem? either ur repping or ur a weird gnc, i welcome either, but srsly troon out soon cuz this is just getting embarrassing!!
>>44143302what serano said unironically happened with me
>>44146002didn't blanchard also base his typology to some extent on the attractiveness of his patients?
>>44140820so you are saying my stupid worthless tranny brain got a little hit of estrogen before I was even born and I've been in withdrawal this entire time, longing for any excuse to relapse? what am I supposed to do with this information?
