My cousin is in his mid 20s and basically lives like a NEET. No job, no school, no ambition, no hobbies outside video games/anime, no interest in relationships, money, independence, travel, fitness, or really anything. He spends almost all day online and seems emotionally flat about the future.What worries me more is his attitude toward both cis and trans women and life in general. He says dating is a “waste of time,” talks about women like they’re beneath him or annoying obstacles, and seems convinced there’s no point trying at anything. His parents support him completely and he seems perfectly content staying in his room indefinitely.The weird part is this doesn’t even seem rare anymore. I keep seeing more cishet men online who are detached from society, don’t want careers or families, avoid socializing, and seem to retreat into games/internet culture instead. Some are openly bitter or nihilistic.So what’s actually causing this?Is it economic hopelessness? Social media/internet addiction? Porn? Mental health issues? Fear of failure? A reaction to modern dating culture? Overprotective parenting? Something else?And why does it seem to affect cishet men disproportionately?
a lot of reasonsas someone who sits online every day, a huge part of it is mental illnessanother factor is the male loneliness epidemic
>>44361366i have a brother who is like this. he is a repper since i've caught him wearing girl clothes (i am a transgendered girl)
>>44361366society is extremely misandrist, more so than misogyny by leaps and bounds. That combined with the lingering effects is toxic masculinity make it easier to simply detach from society as a whole as right it it has nothing to offer men, similar to the detached dazed out-of-love disillusioned housewives of the 60's. And with the internet its a whole lot easier now
Stop fucking with zoomer men. I started dating men over 30 only and holy shit has the quality gone up significantly
>>44361380>male loneliness epidemicdoesn't exist, just go outside and you will see many men with friends.And if it existed, it would actually be based.
>>44361383rape him to assert your dominance
>>44361406you see them with the friends because the ones with no friends aren't socializing, duh
Technocracy, anarcho-tyranny, call it what you will a lot of guys know we're on the tail end of an empire and things are going to get very bad by mid-century.
>>44361425Maybe it's fine that many men stay in their home. It's probably why rape is on the decline
>>44361414i'm not going to rape my brother eww! i have a boyfriend!
>>44361366women want a man that can buy a house, support a family, and indulge their wife's lavish hyperconsumerist lifestyle all on his ownmen understand that most of them will not achieve this until they're well past their prime so why bother
>>44361366in japan hikkikomoris appeared because of culturally-embedded work and achievement culture creating too much pressure and stress, so probably something similar. hsps may be more easily affected ....any environment that creates a similar situation could cause it, such as fundamentalist religious upbringing ....social media and video game design is a factor too, as well as a shallow culture lacking in any spiritual depth -- also that social expectations/roles of men have largely remained the same over the last 30 years, while opportunities to be and act manly have dried up or require untenable hypermasculinity to achieve what 30 years ago only required a mild interest in doing masculine things to achieve the same results
>>44361487even when you try to change your gender they shit on you, society hates men.
>>44361406>doesn't exist, i hate men btw
>>44361549>i hate men btwBASED
>>44361366I go home from work every day and just sit in my room playing video games. No point in going out. I may be a 6'5 white guy but im norwooding and seen as subhuman by any foids. They only go for the top 5% of men. Also I don't like going out. I have fun in my room playing video games and watching tv.
>>44361564your daddy issues aren't anybody else's problem, harlotidgaf about your "trauma"
>>44361628idgaf about you being upset about my post :)stop (You)ing me and don't rape, it's not complicated
>>44361647you're raping my soul with your retarded posts, it's like coming across a hobo covered in piss and feeling it assault your nostrilsdont worry, no more (You)s 4 u
>>44361676moids don't have souls retard
Ah yes let me care for this society that tells me every moment I need to be killed for being born the incorrect sex or at the least imprisoned for being morally evilLet me work hard for this society that puts nothing but barriers in my way because of my birth sex then calls me privileged and sexistYoung men aren't stupid lol women have been telling men to fuck off and die alone their whole lived and they are simply obeying
>>44361711grow a pair?
>>44361366>talks about women like they’re beneath him or annoying obstaclesbecause most of them are these days. why should anybody respect some cockmongling onlyfans whores whose primary interests (besides getting fucked by chad) consist of instagram, makeup and getting men to buy them overpriced designer clothes
>>44361719nah. fuck you. i am not conforming to your shitty tradmasc gender role
>>44361755>xe pussied outtelling
>>44361764>noooo you have to be heckin MANLY and EMOTIONLESS and le STOICnope
>>44361798I never said that. Another reminder that moids are just lower IQ...
>>44361836you literally said "grow a pair" which is the same boomer-tier retardation as "man up"
>>44361840you're a failed male with a humiliation fetish aren't you :)
I only open doors for men and the disabled.
this thread cheered me up
>>44361366depression, general doomer culture, misandry and feeling like there's no use for them in this worldalso these men wouldve just drank themselves to death before, now there are safer options that keep them alive
>>44361401You're a fool, as flat as OP's brother describes his future, you are ignorant to the future of men. The 30 year olds in the future will be as numb as the men now.
>>44361960Are you retarded? That's why you date the millennial men who are in their 30s now. They are much more well adjusted. That was the point, not arbitrarily saying men who are 30 years old are better
>>44361366No pussy, no reason to contribute. It is as simple as that.
>>44361366Basically a loss of incentive. It is not all men but they intentionally imported millions to suppress wages and displace the lower class. Men did act like sacks of shit in the past but all men being called evil when just as many evil women exist and so on. Look up the rat eutopia experiment it sort of shows what is happening. Reality is the world does not function without men doing the dirty jobs. Plus women not reproducing. The real danger is what always happens when a country has a massive surplus of men like this. They start asking the question that if a system is not a benefit for me why should I take part in it? Why should I even allow it to exist? So the answer is we either speed run a way to keep them happy an automate shit or the world we have now falls in fascism when it gives men something to fight for and you either fall into line or die basically.At some point we sort of become aware we only exist by each other consent and right mean very little when the majority turns on you
>>44361976You're too much of a fool that you think of my saying in your own sphere, what is most important to you now, what is in the present. May god humble you for your insolence, and may he have mercy on man for what is coming. You may feel no wrath now, but you will beckon the crisis that is coming as though it were a serpent. The shuddered breaths shall dawn a shattered sanctum. You foolish improvident
>>44362026
>>44362007>reality is the world does not function without men doing the dirty jobs.>mens only real purpose for existing is protection from violence and grunt manual laborgrim
>>44362050Yes men's purpose and happiness comes from being needed.Women's purpose comes from being a motherFor all of time this was fine for the majority. Statistically I am sure it has been proven women are less happy now than even in the 1950s. Trannies fuck knows they have no place in a fascist society.I am an autist so I see patterns in everything even if they are not proven but in history from Rome and Greek stories we have stories of decadence, break down in gender roles then the collapse. Fascism is always framed as evil guy taking power but never mentions the people who created it conditions for it. The ignored anger. Look into the Burning of the Belin Sexual institute by the Nazis to see the parallels. Fascism becomes less a choice but the natural escalation of force.The fastest fix for the west is mandated work from home, 4 day week week etc which would help emissions hugely dropping them 20% instantly. improve health, family, family, child care cost. it would instantly fix everything and is scientifically proven to increase productivity
>>44362136>Women's purpose comes from being a motherGuess what trans girls can't do?
>>44362218If we find a way to stabilise with sex dolls or something then they have a place just existing in the mix. If we drop to good old fashioned ways which is likely then they are fucked. Hell we are talking in the West in most of the world you would get forced transitioned and married to a man or killed
>>44361366Life is cool I like being alive I have hopes for the future but as an observer dating does seem kinda fucked.Women just do not like men at all right now, and for good reason, but it seems like you just kinda can't date chicks unless you've got a 10 in some stats.Dating men blows. All the apps are evil, the average gay is still racist and creepy, and there's more old perverbs to sift through than ever. Lame.Dating trannies of any stripe is untenable. They all have some kind of brainworms you will have to constantly defuse, most of them of both genders feel genuinely bad about dating cis men, and a lot of the ones who do date cis men are either very quick to put anyone in the chaser box or have such severe brainworms they will try to get you to start performing chaser behavior to appease the brainworms.I plan to stay single for the next decade bare minimum.
>>44362410I think a big part is very few fat men and women women are attractive when fat. You get the odd guy with a great face or really pretty women with great curves but the majority look like blobs so both sides feel like they deserve better than they can get and they are both right and wrong. Really the big irony of being obsessed with trannies is men and women up to 60% really have no gender. In a time obsessed with gender men have grown tits and huge hips and bellies, low test and women look like lumps and their beer guts and fucked hormones makes them grow beards and become infertile
>>44361366Once men were no longer promised a bang maid as a wife they got depressed. What's the point of life if they don't have someone to do chores for them and suck their dick?
>>44362544My post was not an invitation to dump your /pol/shit. People like you are a decent reason why women hate men today. Fucking the game up for the rest of us
>>44362638stating facts is not pol shit you spastic cunt
>>44361366My brain tells me to kill myself everyday, so that probably stops me from doing a lot of what I could do. Like, multiple times a day, on my lunch break, or when I'm waiting for the train home.
>>44362653>stating facts is not pol shit Did you know that geographic political leaning corresponds with weight? The highest rates of obesity are in the rust belt and the lowest rates are in places like Maine and Vermont. This tracks particularly well with childhood obesity
>>44361366im like this bc I hate myself and the world is scary also kinda a repper but not really
>>44361366Civilisation:>"Men are evil, vile rapists and murderers purely by virtue of the fact they are male"You REALLY have to ask?
>>44361406kys
>>44362745Some types were born to bulk, hunt, fight, work and protect, some were born to pick berries and weave baskets in the safety of camp. This is visible in politics.
>>44362633Except there are trannies that will agree to do that and yet cis men will still willingly choose to be with a ugly lazy foid and then complain about it
>>44361366As a gay man my POV is somewhat different than the straight men who make up most of this pattern. Nevertheless, I too do not want to engage with broader society. My socializing happens in a bubble, basically only engaging with other gay men. Why would a man want to be a part of larger society? His first experience with them was probably the mutilation of his genitals, something that would not be tolerated on women. Then an education system that is disproportionately run by and for women; it punishes and fails him at a much higher rate, while simultaneously telling him that he is broken and guilty of original sin. He will hear how the law oppresses women, while observing them receive lesser sentences—if a jury convicts them at all—when they commit crime. He will see female CEOs complaining on television about the gender pay gap, while he works one of the many, many dangerous and life-threatening jobs that are disproportionately male. He will live a life where he is more likely to be the victim of violent crime, more likely to be homeless, and more likely to commit suicide. If he tries to date, he will face the empirical horror show that is female hypergamy. When he fails, he will be branded an incel, a loser, a creep. I could go on forever, but you get the point. There is simply nothing modern society has to offer most men, other than abuse and gaslighting from cradle to grave.If I were straight, I would just take out as many women as I can before killing myself. Why not? I don’t know what other rational move there is, and if enough men do it, it will spark real change. But I’m gay, so I basically won the lottery—I get to detach and just have fun in my little bubble. I am unbelievably grateful. To any women reading…you should be extremely afraid of the next half century or so. Large populations of alienated men are a catalyst for destruction, and that is when women actually are crushed under the boot.
>>44362893I like that being a lardass landwhale with type 2 is based and tradpilled if they do it in a bumfuck state but cringe and snoy if they do it in a blue statetruly magical how conservacucks 180 on everything so easily, you guys really do have no beliefs
>>44361702Men don't have souls... lolWomen eat potato chip and queef and MAKE NOTHING
>>44361719wowproved his point, lmfaofucking faggot poonham
>>44363361We live in a basedciety
>>44361366because you have to work 5x harder than your parents did to get 1/5th the results a lot of guys just give up it's too hard Only the top 20% are even breeding it's so over unless you are born lucky so yeah time to go gay women are behind the times
>>44363557>because you have to work 5x harder than your parents did to get 1/5th the resultsI think this really captures something, and explains in particular the gender gap. When women look a few generations back, not even that many, they unambiguously see that they are better off now. But when men do the same, it’s a completely different picture. Most men would prefer to have been in their grandparent’s time if not earlier, and it’s pretty easy to understand why.
Can we get a response from someone who isn't an transmaxxing Incel?
>>44364187How about this one >>44363316 ya fucking retard
>>44361487>expectations/roles of men have largely remained the same over the last 30 years, while opportunities to be and act manly have dried up this is smart, but it's not an excuse. you have be a bit more cunning to find your place, or even carve out your own niche. you have to be strong.
>>44361366>mid 20s and basically lives like a NEET. No job, no school, no ambition, no hobbies outside video games/anime, no interest in relationships, money, independence, travel, fitness, or really anything. He spends almost all day online and seems emotionally flat about the future.Damn literally me. Idk I've just never had that drive for life that most people seem to have, even as a child.
>>44364187I did >>44361442
>>44361366It's because the dream is dead. The things that men want are becoming more and more out of reach. Hard to get a stable job for a decent quality of life when it used to be common. Owning a home is becoming increasingly rare. Relationships are being pushed on the hypergamous side when it comes to money and looks. What used to be fit 10 years ago is not considered dyel, only the top jobs are considered dating material etc. It used to be just a select few that were being dislocated, but the trend is growing.
>>44361366thats just life ok
>>44361366Put yourself in his shoes and ask what he would gain by putting his time and effort into those things you think he should have. What would he truly be rewarded with?A wife who can divorce him and take 70% of his wealth at any time? Kids he can lose to a family court that hates him? A million dollars needed to buy a small home big enough for 2.4 kids and a dog? Travelling a world that defaults to seeing him as a predator sex tourist to be avoided and slapped with charges in a language he can't even read? Working 60 hour weeks to afford living on his own? Gym gains that women ignore because he's too short and not a nepobaby able to compete with infinite internet attention and foreign oil princes?Of course he sees women as annoyances and obstacles, that's what they are to him trying to live a life worth living. Every politician has to kiss women's ring and bitch about non-issues like women in sports while never even touching his basic rights like not being drafted or getting his foreskin cut off, every HR department ignores his qualifications because he's not a white cishet woman like them, every school board is too busy throwing grant money at women to bother with defusing the false accusations being thrown at him by those same women getting a free ride, every potential dating partner that could prevent him from being an unmentionable virgincel is avoiding him because other women convince her to "do better" since he can't earn a place in society she'd be happy with due to everything else mentioned.He quite literally has no reason to try anymore, no cishet man does.
>>44361870Holy based? Slam doors in foid faces to really rub it in.
>>44364187>can somebody please agree with me already so i don't have to change my toxic and hateful worldview?
>>44361366Because the lie of "work hard and you'll live well" Is now just 100% obvious. Ppl don't buy it anymore.
everybody needs a reason to live that they can believe in :(men too
>>44366299What can a trans girl do to help men have a reason to believe in life again?
>>44366304Cuddles would be nice, also wearing skirts when we go out together.
>>44363316You see I agree that men face all these problems but when I ask them if they want to team up to take down the 90% rich men enforcing this system they start screaming about roasties??
>>44366318Women created and enforce this system because they are the only beneficiaries of it. A couple rich men are shitty yes but it is women as a whole that rigidly fight to protect this.None of the traumatic events in my life happened because of a billionaire, it happened because a woman was bored or angry that I existed.
>>44366318Taking down the rich is like taking down a slave plantation. Another will just pop up in it's place because the female validation complex and hypergamy that made those rich men want more resources for a bigger harem to sate their giant mother wound, obviously put their by a woman to begin with, remains unchanged.Taking down toasties that chase men who fuck over other men for resources is like taking down the entire system of white supremacy that made a slave plantation possible, and truly rights the wrongs of history.
>>44366309Cuddles are nice! Skirts I could do if I passed better... what length of skirt do guys want us to wear?
>>44361366>So what’s actually causing this?Socio-economic conditions are the primary reason. It is going into FUBAR state at an accelerating pace. Thank you Capitalism.As for>his attitude toward both cis and trans women and life in generawellcome to hyperindividualism, which helps interested parties in exploiting you for their agenda, in this case radicalising male population by keeping them depressed an miserable and blaming women of any kind for their circumstances.>His parents support him completely and he seems perfectly content staying in his room indefinitelyI would suggest getting him help and therapy, but he must be willing to accept that help, otherwise its the case fo throwing a life preserver to a drowning person who wants to drown.>more cishet men online who are detached from society, don’t want careers or families, avoid socializing, and seem to retreat into games/internet culture instead. Some are openly bitter or nihilisticNo third spaces, no good role models, getting told that they are the problem, people like Tate bros exploiting them, people with agenda like Peterson messing with their minds and understanding, social media exploitation, porn frying their brains, normalisation of unhuman attitudes, bastardisation of Christian religion in order to exploit them, employment and workscape being hell, dating apps that are interested in you being miserable... too much bullshit happening, and men being blamed for all the ills while some men do heinous shit and displace responsibility and flak onto other men giving false perception.Isolation into social media destroys perception of reality, and so people get more anxious, more irritable, more disposed to being brainwashed.Blame rich people for stealing future and welbeing of humankind, and governments for allowing them to do that (because they are in cahoots with each other).Also, look up Mouse Utopia experiment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgGLFozNM2o&t=945s
>>44361406Its a manufactured issue. A racket. Because someone farts need a lot of retarded-angry young men (who can be very easily manipulated) to do things that benefit certain agenda.
>>44366304I think having a girlfriend would be pretty nice.
>>44366304Affection, femininity, love, acceptance.
People are seeing the cracks are you all dumb? Why do you think half the population is suffering from anxiety and depression now?
>>44361366Why ask when you already know the price of living is high as hell>>44366455>getting told that they are the problem,And I need to know why cis men worked so hard to oppress everyone for 3k years and now act surprised when said groups don't like them and see them as an issue
>>44366501We've been trying to build stable and prosperous societies because they keep collapsing.
>>44366501> And I need to know why cis men worked so hard to oppress everyone for 3k years and now act surprised when said groups don't like them and see them as an issueI’m 21 you stupid fucking cunt, I basically just showed up to Earth and you want to punish me for shit that happened before I was born? This is why men detach, women are fucking psychopaths
>>44366432The shorter the better but the most important part is that they can be easily lifted. :^)
>>44366501Some men act surprised because they get blamed for things that they did not do while trying to be better than the men that did do those things. You need to remember that patriarchical system is also abusive and brutal to men, placing expectations on them and viciously punishing them should they not meet them. Its a self-perpetuating system of abuse. Generalising that all men are oppresive tyrants does no favour to those who are not like that and want to change the system for better. Please dont generalise.Also, when was the last time you talked to a guy? Not the small-talk, not a quick hello. A proper long conversation.
>>44366551You are not doing yourself any favours.
>>44366566>“Why is this man getting so upset? All I did was blame him for things he had literally no part in! This PROVES that men are violent and dangerous and need to be marginalized!”Talking to women is a kafkaesque experience…
>>44366318Men don't actually want to fix society, they want to be on top. They're secretly perfectly fine with being spiritually and physically raped by patriarchy because they want to have the chance to be on top. They're fine with men being abused by work because they think they'll hold the whip.They're fine with women being indoctrinated into dating breadwinners because they think they'll be megarich.They're fine with ever increasing male beauty standards because they think they'll be hot eventually.Talk to any man about patriarchy and he recoils instantly because he thinks you want to take something from him. Steal his birthright or the ladder he'll climb. It doesn't matter if you want to replace the system with a more equal one because he is FAR more invested in the idea of benefirting from a fucked system than in fixing the reality of his shitty living situation.>>44366361>Women created and enforce this system because they are the only beneficiaries of it.No. Most of these problems were created by men. Some were created by capitalists and happen to fuck over men in service of profit.The school system was designed for profit.Circumcision was implemented bt christcuck MEN.Justice system was designed by men.Men designed the entire financial system that makes men work shit jobs. I can keep going down the list but even the stuff that looks like it benefits chicks is either side effects from men doing patriarchy OR women trying to fix patriarchy and yoy seething because you feel more entitled to your birthright than to actually living a life that isn't shit.Notice how you talk about "original sin". Women talk about OTHER men designing or carrying out patriarchy and you feel attacked Ultimately men deserve it. Everything. Until you of your own accord band together to design a system where nobody suffers for the sake of another you will all be cursed to sit at the bottom rungs of a ladder you will die dreaming of climbing. Enjoy the system, its yours.
>>44366551>and you want to punish me for shit that happened before I was born?You want to inherit the system, no? This is the history of the system. You can either continue inheriting it and then feel personally attacked when the system is insulted or help fix the system. You care more about bring attacked because you like that the system sucks.>>44366562>Generalising that all men are oppresive tyrants does no favour to those who are not like that and want to change the system for better.Have any of the men bitching and whining about this held their tongues in turn? Called men out for making general statements about all women? Held back on attacking racial groups that include some bad actors? Not talked shit about subcultures that annoy them?No, they haven't. Its fine to say all women are whores, even if this website has quite a few that hate the concept. Fine to say all niggers are evil and lazy even if you work beside upstanding ones or study alongside their best and brightest. Fine to say all fags are child molestors, even if you know that isn't close to true.Because? They aren't 'Men'. They're them. We can insult Them as much as we like because as men The System entitles us to do so. Don't you dare call insult me in kind, because I get special privileges. Don't you dare critique the system, vecause one day I'll be on top.Men do this to themselves. They deserve everything that comes next
>>44361366Its internet and social media being mindraping machines, its as simple as that
>>44366689>fix the systemYou can't imagine how angry reading this makes me. You know nothing about the system. You don't know how "the system" got here or who brought it to this point. I would pay good money to sit in a locked room with you and talk this out.
>>44366551>>44366562>I'm 21>This is why men detach>the system is abusive to men, tooAlright now do it all again while being trans>when was the last time you talked to a guy?Last night
>>44366755nta btw
>>44366755Why is it that I'm the person you're pissed at but not anyone else ITT? You're not questioning the gay moid on why teh wimminz and "original sin". You're not questioning the schizos ranting about immigration. Just me.Why? Because I'm the one questioning the idea that you might one day inherit the power fucking you in the ass on a daily.
>>44366755>i would pay good money to sit in a locked room with you and talk this out.you'd pay to argue with a stranger?dawg that's literally the problem. you're so hung up on "the system" that you're out here gnashing your teeth to argue with randoms lmao. you are drowning your spirit, brother. you are drowning.
>>44366799I will never inherit it and that is by design. The reason why your post angers me so much is because you're not shit flinging like all the brainless sissy retards here, you are pointing out a very real, very brutal truth I have wrestled with for a long time and the road it lead me down is heavy. Existentially dreadful. Do you have somewhere we can talk?>>44366801>argueNo. And every person is worth my time. Don't make assumptions about my spirit, my anchor.
If you sit and do nothing, nothing will change, good riddance. This world belongs to the strong be it man or women.
>>44366843>Do you have somewhere we can talk?I am a gigantic asshole and largely incapable of keeping up with personal connections, sorry. I wish I could help you bear the weight but I am malformed
>>44366988It's ok, my burden is light and my yoke is easy now, I just intended to explain why the system fundamentally cannot be fixed.
>>44366755Don't play into the hypergamous foid logic anon. The "patriarchy" was created by cis women who wanted men they found hotter and more capable of giving them a free ride. You posturing and being aggressive is what they want. The only winning move is to play outside that systems rules and help tear down foid influence on your behavior from the inside out.
>>44367013No it wasn't. Literally none of this is the fault of women. I am a married man, I don't have some complex about women. If you are seriously worrying about women atp you have no idea how bad things are and how difficult they're about to get.
>>44367034Don't care, you simped. Your words are worthless now.
>>44367063NTA>you simpedSo... guy marrying a woman means he is a simp? Is that your logic?
>>44367063Everything women have done, men have allowed them to do. Deliberately. You're the simp getting psychologically dommed and psyopped, eat shit.
>>44366689you're acting like the personification of evil, i certainly haven't committed the misdeeds you think i have, the ones you feel so righteous about when it's towards your acceptable target.
>>44367086Marriage is the most direct legal path to a woman extracting resources from men.>>44367098I do nothing for women. There is no shit for me to eat.
>>44366641imbecile
>>44367011>I just intended to explain why the system fundamentally cannot be fixedOne must imagine Sisyphus happy
>>44367319It doesn't have to be sisyphian once you see the big picture. I mean in a sense it is and will always be but for your personal life it doesn't have to be that way.
>le patriarchy, le bilionaires, le capitalism, le moidsshut the FUCK UP.it's women. it's all cis women.
>>44367338Rent free, simp
>>44367347are you the bait poster from >>44361406 ?can you not? it's not funny.
>>44367332I think I'm fine with it being sisyphean. Everything in life is about fighting entropy and I find that to be genuinely beautiful in my somber moments. There's really nothing else to do but ice skate uphill in some form
women are a resource (as much as men are) recently turned into a bioweapon. targeted because theyre weak, through birth control, heavy metal poisoning, mass media, eventually peer pressure. could argue that women dont even exist anymore. maybe they were like that from the beginning deep down. functionally theyve been eaten and replaced by parasitical monsters.
>>44366689You are ghoulish. I do not want to inherit the system, and even if I did, the odds are much higher that the system would simply destroy me rather than place me in the statistically insignificant subgroup on top. You are the kind of person who points to the gender ratio of Fortune 500 CEOs while ignoring the gender ratio of people who die on the job--a number that is larger by several orders of magnitude. I am begging you, before it is too late, to realize: your blanket demonization of men is hastening a backlash that will result in the deaths of women, especially trans women. You have a gun in your mouth and are laughing as you prepare to pull the trigger in an effort to "own the moids."
>>44361366Idk why you say cishet, ftms have this too.It’s just what happens to men in a dying empire.Rome was like this too; it just reads differently because the internet didn’t exist so they had to go outside a bit, but their version of the internet was going to the bathhouses. They literally spent all day taking baths because nothing mattered anymore. Nobody’s becoming a titan of industry in a civilization being actively overrun by barbarians where building anything makes you a target, not for anything cool like competition or war but for being a bleedable pig for the Epstein class and the invading hordes’ welfare fraud. Why the fuck would you do anything? There’s no Henry Ford of the fourth century. Nobody is going to remember Sam Altman or Musk or the person that figured out CRISPR or any of these cunts because the next civilization of archaeologists are going to be Chinese. Nobody outside of America is going to remember American history in another 250 years. Your own people don’t even want their own people to build things anymore. They want to die, and they resent anyone that won’t. The average normgroid is filled with an absolute seething hatred of anyone demonstrating initiative, competence, or giftedness at ANYTHING. Nothing is rewarded and virtue is punished.>why not womenBecause they don’t have the delusion of existential relevance and are inexplicably content to just exist, reproduce, and die, in any universe.
>>44367389i agree
>>44367230>i certainly haven't committed the misdeeds you think i havelotta peoppe itt talking shit about women in generalities and I'm confident I haven't seen you speak up. see how this works? if you want other people to take you seriously when you're upset about being generalized you HAVE to also be upset when others are generalized.i imagine your next response will be something like "but THEY did it first", when then I would point out to you this could also be said by them. there is really no clean point in history you can go back to and say "and here's where the foids started unjustly agitating against men".you'll understand more when you're older I guess but most of what's happening today is blowback from the past. you just don't have the perspective to understand you're in the crossfire
>>44361366I hate where I live, don't have friends anymore and never dated.
>>44367392This motherfucker gets it, thank you.>>44367368I'm glad you find beauty in it, I wish I could. I find comfort reading Tacitus, St Augustine, Chesterton etc; and knowing I'm not alone. I think accepting suffering and death as absolute non negotiable inevitabilities helps stare down everything without flinching, but when I first realised the state of the world I was like a zombie for days.>>44367356No I'm very serious, you need to get to know a lot of women intimately to realise they're mostly well meaning and acting on instinct. They aren't some evil powerful hivemind, and more often than not these days they are suffering too. Look at the rate of medication of females for depression and anxiety. Letting innocent weak little creatures dominate you in this way is fucked up, more of a simp than someone like me who chooses duty and to provide and protect no matter the odds.
>>44367389>You are the kind of person who points to the gender ratio of Fortune 500 CEOs while ignoring the gender ratio of people who die on the job--a number that is larger by several orders of magnitude.and the reason for this is largely due to men prior to you.logging, construction, etc were, in burgerland, industries established long before women even had the right to work those kinds of jobs. over decades due to the reality of work they develop an insular culture which is at best hard to penetrate for women and at worst actively hostile to them. women can't die on the job in these gigs because women largely couldn't have them and people kinda won't let them.not only that but most of these jobs are so deadly due to a lack of labor protections which largely came about due to the patriarchal owning class' need to protect their business interests but cutting costs on safety and destroying unions that would push for safety out of workers' interests.men dyimg on the job isn't like the way the world is or a thing women imposed on men, its a thing men did to men. you COULD say its a thing the rich did to the poor but in large part both in this thread and IRL tge people who most want to help men stop dying on the job are women and the people who least want it are men. men largely refuse to rebuild unions, to reform business regulations, to punish abusive bosses, to enact more worker protections. so, in turn, i believe its only fair to blame men for fucking themselves over.most everything is the same way. you're at the ass-end of the circle so you don't see the head>your blanket demonization of menI don't demonize men. I love men and in real life try my utmost to put my weight behind the men who think things are bullshit as they stand. Problem is that most men ITT would call those brave men pussies for wanting to fix the same exact problems those whiner men are claiming to be victims of.
>>44367468You have to be an idiot to think that the reason women don't work as loggers or on oil rigs is because they have a "discriminatory culture towards women"
>>44367854Notice the dodge. I point out how you're being fucked over by other men and the thing you gravitate towards is that women aren't being fucked over in that exact specific capacity in the amount you would prefer.Again, you, like most men, do not care about not getting fucked over. You love getting fucked over. You just wanna get fucked different.I can grant you any hypothetical you would like to be granted, you're still being fucked and you Don't Actually Care. What if women actually don't want to go into logging? Loggers still die because of shitty bosses, shitty protections, and a shit system.What if so on and so forth. Even if women are somehow willingly opting out and maneuvering around every negative outcome you are still getting fucked. Women have not been in control of society long enough for this to be the fault of women. Loggers have been dying for about as long as we've been transporting logs via river. What woman, hundreds of years ago, was in control of logging operations before even the formation of mercantilism?Are you gonna pivot to the fucking jews next?Please for the love of god stop pretending you don't want to get gaped if you're gonna keep offering your lubed up cleaned out unprotected asshole to the world.
>>44361366hard to say. a lot of this could definitely be schizoid personality disorder
>>44367468You’re doing it, sweety!!! The moids have been owned!!! This will never come back to bite you!!! You definitely won’t be crushed by a roiling tide of angry and resentful men!!! Who needs persuasion and consensus-building??? Not you!!! GIRL POWER GIRLBOSS!!!
>>44368233The same men who want to be viewed as logical, rational, critical thinking, tough-skinned, impossible to offend, and unemotional need to be babied, coddled, handheld, gently led, affirmed, and constantly patted on the ass to be convinced to stop fucking themselves over.When they're spouting bullshit in the harshest possible language its "just stating facts" and "facts over feelings" but when I'm like midly slightly abrasive I'm helping to fuel the oncoming collapse or whatever.When they're being intentionally dense and hateful they're constantly chirping at you, "lol u mad?" "triggered snowflake?" but when I take small potshots I'm somehow putting my heels on the throat of sensitive young men. Why are men never ever ever ever ever under any obligation? Not only are these men in the general sense but these are supposed to be men who can handle pushback. This is 4chan, owner of 9000 dicks or whatever the meme was. If I was to go anywhere on the net to find men who aren't quivering pussies this should be one of those places. Why do I need to fucking jerk you off while I explain this? I'm not even being mean yet and you're already crying!
I love men I just think most of you are evil and worthless and should die in a war or be taxed into homelessness if you won't live up to your gender role of emotionless ATM so we can have equality
>>44368319nobody said this
>>44361366No one wants kids anymore and there’s not really any reason to “succeed” outside of that. Wow, that guy works 15 hours a day at big fancy hospital as a doctor, so he can… afford a better retirement home when he goes senile? Pass.
>>44361366>He says dating is a “waste of time,” talks about women like they’re beneath him or annoying obstaclesI mean... this is 100% accurate?If he's going to have ambitions they need to be based on something other than annoying whores.
>>44361366Why would you care about anything when the world feels cold and disinterested in you? In the past men would bury themselves in their work instead, these days you just go online and find something to tickle your brain for a while instead. In either case they're basically doing nothing. The real question is why don't afab women seem to be affected as much by this. My guess is because they're viewed as inherently desirable so the yawning chasm of eternal social neglect is further from their experience.
do foids seriously think we all get a check in the mail every month from The Patriarchs or some shit? how come there's always this argument about benefiting from patriarchy or how politicians are men as if that matters in any way whatsoever to the common person, there's no transfer of power, those men that rule the world don't think of us as their brothers or anything they barely even consider us human
>>44368846>do foids seriously think we all get a check in the mail every month from The Patriarchs or some shitno, hence why we are confused why you fight so hard for the status quowhy do you protect the thing that kills you
>>44368881how am i fighting for it, literally what do you even mean by this? why is your go-to response to accuse me of fighting for the patriarchy when the only thing i've said is that i have no stake in it whatsoever?
The men are oppressed narrative starts to break down when you ask who is doing the oppression
>>44368905Grouping men or women into one large group is so retarded. Literally dividing all of humanity into two groups and pretending those groups are unanimous and undivided. These are BILLIONS of people. You are just seeing biological patterns play out
>>44368881Whom is that directed towards? Can you find a single fucking post in this thread where someone defends the status quo of power structures?You are ASSUMING that we support these structures BECAUSE we are men. That is why it is so infuriating to have this discussion with you. It’s like you’re having a psychotic episode, hurting yourself and the people around you who could be your allies.Women—and again, especially trans women—will literally die because of behavior like this. Is it worth it? Do you not actually want to be successful in your goals? Have you just given up on persuasion?
>>44368904why is it that when i pointed out to you that men are the reason why loggers die you wanted to pivot to there not being enough dead female loggers
>>44361366>what is happening?we live in a matriarchy>why does it seem to affect cishet men disproportionately?the matriarchy oppresses cishet men and makes life worse for them at every turnit is almost funny that what women experienced in the 1800s is now normal life for men in the 2000s
>>44368905>who is doing the oppressionIt's women. It's always been women.
>>44368981I am not that person and have no particular opinion about logger death statistics aside from wanting them to be lower in a general sense
>>44369041correct.
>>44368979>Can you find a single fucking post in this thread where someone defends the status quo of power structures?Most every post questioning the structure just wants to retvrn. Send foids back to the kitchen, make men the breadwinners again, etc etc. They think foids or jews or whoever have twisted the system and want to untwist it to some utopian age.Very few saying "yeah I'd like to live in a world where people aren't fucked at birth"I don't think you're defending because you're men. Its not a gene. Its a meme that has been implanted in you. Like jeets who defend caste or pinkertons gunning down strikers. You're an actor playing a role.>Have you just given up on persuasion?Spare the child the rod and all that. Really I don't expect this right now to do anything. This thread'll only be uo maybe another day. Nobody will remember anything said. This is mostly just me pushing buttons on the moid machine and seeing what comes out.>>44369051mmmmmmmm i see i seeand what is our opinion on unions?>>44369041>>44369059cringe
>>44361447rapists are overwhelmingly popular with womena man’s sexual prowess is a good proxy for his likeliness to rape
>>44369071>UnionsI'm too dumb to have a strong idea about this but smart enough to sense someone trying to setup a trap. I dunno anon I think it's good that people have job protection and band together to avoid being exploited but every system has a failure state. I worked a union job once and would have had to wait 12 years working part time for one of the old timers to retire and open up a fulltime position for me for example, that sucked for me personally but also I just quit and found another job so maybe it's fine. Sorry uhhhh why were you asking?
moid hereSince I failed. I'm past my prime. Can't afford a place since our first world country has a housing crisis. Didn't learn the local language due to a multitude of factors so social life is dead. Work a job that makes me feel only mediumly incompetent, so it's better than the last one. Bad health due to bad luck, and being frail is not the best thing to be as a man. Ex left me since we both had problems. I don't really care enough at the moment, though I am going through the motions occasionally to still try something to counter my failure to execute on my goals. If it works, I might get a few moments of fulfillment or happiness. If not, there's some contingencies, including a place where the train is still moving fast enough to finish things off quickly enough.
>>44369107>I worked a union job once and would have had to wait 12 years working part time for one of the old timers to retire and open up a fulltime position for me for example, that sucked for me personally but also I just quit and found another job so maybe it's fineNo actually the problem of old people having basically all the jobs is kinda a problem. Economy is frozen and old timers are really bad about helping young'uns get a good footing. Hope your union rep blows his shit smoove off>Sorry uhhhh why were you asking?Just probing I guess
>>44369170If you're EFL most EU languages should be only a year of study away from decent fluency for you. Shit sucks I hope you get better and somebody opens a door for you
Why do you care?
>>44369071>cringeTo be cringe is to be free. You are chained by your enslavement to the feminist narrative. You are a victim of internalized female validationism.
I'm 40 and I wonder if people notice how much culture has changed over the past 30 years - it's roughly how long I've been trying to pay attention. It's like the fundamental underpinnings of society have changed. When I was a kid it was still fairly common to see in popular culture that people cared about being a good honest person. You know the strong silent guy, has principles, won't lie, won't fuck people over? It was what you were supposed to be. Nowadays people like this are basically openly called beta or a cuck and everybody venerates the confident, openly macchiavellian ruthless hustler. Especially the younger generations though it was already plenty visible in mine. Most of the biggest works of popular culture of the last 30-40 years are about criminals. Ever since everything became about sex we've been embracing a sort of social darwinism and now it is becoming increasingly clear. If this keeps up we're going to recreate the Roman Empire and will revert to basically open slavery.
>>44369829Maybe the real social contagion was the sopranos and breaking bad making people think being a psychopathic degenerate was badass
>>44369829People feel extremely insecure about their livelihood and income and prospects these days, it feels like the system has betrayed us, so a lot of people have begun idolizing those who beat/break the system instead.
>>44370043its not really a stretch to see them as critiques of patriarchy like some of the others in this thread tho rightit all seems to always loops back to thatthe guys calling men that care betas and cucks and simps are the same thing
>>44361366I am 25 bi and trans and I live like this except I have a job interests. No idea what I want to do in the future but I make fine money. I know a couple of people still living with their parents and jobless. They graduated but cant find a job (one got an engineering degree, one got medical and one got organic chem). The area I am in is hella expensive to move out of your parents house. You need 2.5x rent (some places is 3x) and need to deposit $1-2k (which we know these cockroaches wont give back). Rent runs you $2.5k on average. None of them are dating or planning on dating. Though it isnt because "women bad" but I think maybe one of my friends semi believes that thanks to tiktok/insta. Its like 60% of the economy, 20% thinking they got all the time in the world and then 20% not caring.
Because their parents love them and let them live in their basements rent free while the rest of us have to apply ourselves whether we have friends or not
>>44362633You *do* realize there was a whole period between ~1965-2005 where women generally had rights, but there wasn't a significant mass of incels, right? The notion that female rights/education/independence causes inceldom (unlike with TFR decline) is outright false. At most, it's a prerequisite for the particular form of it today (and there are other forms, do you think polygamous societies magically birth more women?)This is (in large part) because of feminists defining male attraction as inherently dehumanizing "objectification" (see "sexual harassment" expanding in definition in the 21st c.) and social media massively tipping social/market dynamics towards "sellers" (see one OP getting this many replies, for example), and making it easier for men who were marginal at a given point in their lives (even if they would have improved/recovered later) to discover, commiserate, and doom with their fellows, the even more damned, and the malicious on the net.I know feminists want to gloat and fuel their Just World bias, and incel blackpillers want to imagine their Based Blackpillmaxxed ER-Reich o algo, but women having rights/education/fiscal independence in of itself was not the cause of this. All you're doing is, at best, digging vulnerable men deeper into a hole of despair, or at worst, hyperstitioning your enemies' most horrid goals into existence (and causing many innocent people to suffer even if it fails. Who do you think is on /tttt/ er... /lgbt/?) Please stop.
>>44366318Hm. I wonder why dejected men don't trust leftists who won't even admit that male attraction to females is not in of itself dehumanizing, or that such men should have equal opportunity to get a degree (read: a modern permit into a Good Job, or a title of nobility, depending on quality/institutional reputation) or a job. Or even won't stop insulting them during a US Presidential election season, to the point of being indistinguishable from self-sabotage.All this will do is open the field for groyperization or ACPization in the wake of MAGA (and all of its coatriders') implosion, not intersectional-brand bolshevization as you wish.However...>>44363316I hate to break it to you, but the revolutionary threshold is far higher now. Pacification/surveillance tech (video games, social media, gray/black-market drugs, pharma, CCTV/flock, ML-powered surveillance/shilling, porn) has ensured that. I get why you're doing it - the typical feminist/left response to "men are suffering unjustly" is "lol, why should I care", and "We Will Make You Care" is the obvious answer, but they know you're bluffing and will just hide behind the State, and use it to paint you as a psychopath to normies, Boomers, and state security agencies. You should instead try to peel them away from cold-hearted intersectional psychopaths and read >>44372233 instead of LARPing as "I'd be Elliot Rodger 2 if I weren't bussymaxxing" or "Le Based Talichads are my role model" or anything like that."If nature is unjust, change nature.", for as we gain the capacity to overwrite our natural world, dynamics, and ourselves, we must ensure that the natural is replaced by the just, not powergrabs of a few enabled by the delusions of a powergrab for many.
>>44372443what
>>44361380"Male loneliness epidemic" is when you're an insufferable loser chud whom women can't stand
>>44372443>who won't even admit that male attraction to females is not in of itself dehumanizingwho is saying this aside from literalwhos on xitter>or that such men should have equal opportunity to get a degreewho is saying this>Or even won't stop insulting them during a US Presidential election seasonwell you know he is the Grab Em By The Pussy guy feel like if you're voting that way you're kinda okaying some sexist stuff>All this will do is open the field for groyperization or ACPizationHow much coddling do men need and how universal does it need to be? At what point does your support of sexism open you up to attacks in-kind? I feel like your position is that short of mass rape in the streets there is nothing a man can do as an individual or collective to deserve harser treatment than limp finger-wagging. That and no matter how nice any group of women are you guys will still never fully listen to them because you've got a hateboner for some dumbfuck who was stupid on X The Everything App. You'll only fully trust conservatives but then nobody is allowed to point out how you're walling yourself off unfairlyAND you expect women to show the inverse behavior. Women have to always listen, always tolerate being berated, always be open to opposing viewpoints, always be understanding and compassionate. It's hypocritical and unfairly asymmetrical. YET if I called that asymmetry sexism or patriarchy you'd have a melty.When do things start being fair? If not in reality then at least in the realm of debate.
>>44372610We really need a word for somebody who points out a hypocrisy (real or perceived) while embodying the exact same hypocrisy. You expect men to take endless blows that you would [rightfully] never tolerate yourself.>who is saying these thingsWhat do you think "don't ask out women who are friends/co-hobbyists/co-workeds/in non-dating shared spaces" was?>equal opportunityDEI? Female-only scholarships? Will you say right now that you support demographic-blind hiring, admissions, and scholarships?>Grab 'em by the pussyI know. I don't expect a self-respecting woman to have voted for Trump either, or if she does, for it to have been a "hold your nose at the dump"-tier thing at best for religious reasons. You would not say the same in reverse about voting for a committed intersectional neoliberal/socdem fusionist.For example, Mike Collins may not have called one of his opponent's aides Matt Lauer's sloppy seconds, but that his staff would do that speaks to his quality. (I'm not voting for him, lol)>How much coddling do you need?None. I'm pointing out that your wish for a left windfall will only be replaced with more insanity. I don't support sexism, nor am I a Groyper or Hazite; this is a lament of our society's spiral into reciprocal retalitory insanity along many lines.>I feel like your position is... nothing [a man or men-at-large] can do to deserve [consequences]No. All I expect is for men to have a fair shake and a reasonable chance to indicate interest and request consent. The problem is feminists will make half-reasonable excuses to deny this *in particular scenarios* that add up to "go look up how to get a gf from redpill slop, sperg", LDAR, or go on a [supermajority male, has a direct profit incentive to keep you alone] dating app.>You expect women to [be rhetorical absorbers/punching bags]No. I expect you to punish the bad and reward the good; not hyperstition insanity that will only be met with more. I said the same to the men here.
>>44372549Trvke
>>44372787Nta but you are "debating" a psychopath. Why?Turbomisandry will never be cured by debate. Force might do it tho.
>>44372787Re: dehumanization, the word "objectification" is literally just this, in practice. Should have said that, but character limit.To clarify re: Mike Collins, I was using that as an example of a candidate's supporters (in this case, IIRC his chief of staff) being rightfully used to gauge their worth, even if the candidate themselves did not partake in the behavior directly.When did I tell men to stop hyperstitioning insanity? Literally the next paragraph in the post you replied to, and the one above it. The existence of female independence is not the problem here, The Incel Revolution is a LARP, and the aborted fumes of that LARP will just poison discourse further when the oil shock finally hits home.
>>44372919For the Lurkers. Debates aren't just 1-v-1, after all.And to awaken a seed of contrition. (I probably don't have enough brevity or wit for this though. One can hope.) I don't expect her to wave a white flag here and now, I expect her to think on it later after chewing me out. (for that matter, I hope Mr. "I'd ERmaxx if I didn't bussymaxx" does the same). Part of the same way I shifted from my more glib positions when I was younger and dumber.
>>44364397What's the point. You're going to be disappointed with life regardless.
>>44372787Also, I meant to say *exact same hypocrisy, in reverse. I swear I'm morphing into Brezhnev out here.Anyways, all I ask is that you leave a door open for those of [insert group here] willing to cooperate. "Kill All Men" is just TND for women, and ask yourself - would any black person buy "TND is just a reasonable expression of fatigue with urban crime and blight. If you complain about it, you're a criminal ethnic insurgent albophobe genocidare yourself." Should they? No. Over-the-top broad malice is unconvincing, and rightfully so. So why should I?
>>44372787>You expect men to take endless blows that you would [rightfully] never tolerate yourselfFrom me? No. I've not said anything so far that I think is out of bounds to throw my way.I don't think men should endure infinite blows societally either.>don't ask out women"Don't shit where you sleep" was also advice dads gave their sons in the 80s. But also, again, WHO said this.I'm sure 1000 women have said lines you could reductio ad absurdum into "never ask out a woman EVER" but then if you actually specify WHO you can comb through who was being a dipshit, who was venting, and who had halfway decent advice.>Female-only scholarships?Most of these were implemented before women started outpacing men at school>Will you say right now that you support demographic-blind hiring, admissions, and scholarships?No because my support of demographic-aware admissions includes the possibility that men generally may fall so far behind academically that we need to start giving them grants to go to school.>You would not say the same in reverse about voting for a committed intersectional neoliberalThe wording is tripping me up here can you rephrase? The mold is getting to me>this is a lament of our society's spiral into reciprocal retalitory insanity along many linesyes cycles of violence similar political themes and all thatI guess I'm just not sure what you're proposing I do instead>All I expect is for men to have a fair shake and a reasonable chance to indicate interest and request consentThat sounds fair? Are real actual humans in meatspace that you're aware of beyond them being shitheels on twitter saying otherwise?>The problem isWomen are generally exceptionally terrible at guiding men on issues of dating and I have zero fucking clue how to get them to stop as a class.Unironically feel like the apps need legislation. An app should have an obligation to fulfil some function for a user>>44372967>Debates aren't just 1-v-1, after all.you're sharp.
>>44373023Wait have I come across as, like, pro Total Moid Death so far?I feel like I've been trying to hit the "throw off your chains or it's going to get worse" tone rather than "dropkick moid babies"fuck that's lame
>>44373045>NoAnd this is why you are fundamentally a psychopath.
>>44373082i said no like 7 times in that post which no is the bad one
>>44373060Borderline. I don't know who you are or what you want, so I am fighting a series of ideological complexes I assume you represent, watered down or not, and not just you. Sorry if that actually isn't you.(I somewhat understand you doing the same; I was just replying (probably futilely) to a guy who said he'd go full ER if he wasn't gay.)I presume you'd ask men to tolerate such signaling (KAM, MvB, and so on) from the left w/o complaint just like tradslopoids and Tateoids demand of women.I'm just saying *why* people won't throw off the chains you wish them to, i.e. "bolshevization", not that this is a good thing. It will get worse anyway (any 2ACW/2AR/1991 2.0 will see dozens of millions starve at minimum). Like I said, I lament this.Committed intersectional neoliberal = "woke" welfarist-capitalist Democratic Party backbencher c. 2015-now; I assumed you would not say a self-respecting man could not consider voting for one a "hold your nose while throwing your garbage bags at the dump"-tier vote. (1/2)
>everyone trying to come up with doomer explanationsLife is comfy. It's that simple. If you live in an average household in a first world country you're basically post scarcity. What are you worried about, starving to death if the harvest is bad? Collecting enough firewood to last out the winter? We don't have real problems anymore.
>>44373045(2/2)*why men won't throw off the chains.A good example problem here is, for example, according to discourse, and often backed by institutional power, in *any given circumstance*, there is a plausible feminist-sounding reason for it to be considered offensive for a man to approach.>Friend"You're a fake friend, you were just trying to trick me." Add in the fine line between interest as a friend, mere toleration, and potential romantic interest, and the high cost (destroying a friendship) and that kills that route.>Hobby"I'm just here to do [x], [institutional gatekeeper] please remove this man from the premises.">WorkThe law literally defines "unwanted sexual advances" as harassment, so unless you're a terachad who's 100% sure she'd say yes, you're technically committing a crime (or the business is by allowing you to do it).>Someone else's job"She's required to tolerate you and be polite for her job, she isn't interested">in a common space, such as a store or the street"I'm just trying to go to [place] or do [thing]">Bars"Women can't consent while drunk" (what do you think people do at bars?)Underpinning this is "Objectification", the notion that male sexual interest is inherently dehumanizing and offensive in of itself, regardless of the circumstance.The trick here is most of these sound reasonable in isolation, and often are, but taken to a maximal interpretation, backed by law and custom, and put together, they form an iron wall.Of course, these are often selectively deployed as rhetorical weapons, but if you grew up alienated, it feels like a sword of Damocles.This demographic hostility opened up a rhetorical audience and space for cathartic Tateslop, which only worsens the problem. It also ensured a lot of men would lean right-by-default growing into this era.But please, I ask - name an IRL place or circumstance you would consider it acceptable to approach, then? What would you do if you were an moid?
>>44373201is signalling sexual interest to women the only gripe you got? what the fuck am i reading here
>>44373182Maybe I'm too terminally online (scratch that, knowing the word "hyperstition" proves I am), but we're currently just Wile E. Coyote going off the cliff, but Bessent spamming oil trades means we haven't looked down yet. Unless this war ends, it's gonna get worse, and that includes the First World.Best the average denizen of this board can hope for, and a silver lining, is that "Kamala is for they/them" slop goes the way of Prohibition under FDR, desu. But that still means you have to live through a depression [in this analogy].
>>44373235It's representative of the alienation from the Left that you lamented, and creates a lot of distrust. It's far from the only one, but character limit, and wrong board for that desu.OP asked why a lot of cishet men just gave up, and feeling like flirting is a Kobayashi Maru situation is 100% part of it, so I used that.
>>44361366>Dating has been bad since the 2010s and worse every year since>guys get the worst dating advice from other guys and society>straight normie dating is the worst version of dating there is compared to bi/gay/trans or even just straight kink communities>they cant afford to live on their own or move out in genera>less of them are going to college>theyve separated themselves from the "queers" and yes this includes artsy and eccentric straightsTrans people would actually be very sympathetic to cis/straight men's plight if it wasnt for those same men diving headfirst into reactionary bullshit forcing us all on the defense instead of working for a better life for all of us.>>44361366Its the accumulation of all of it crushing them under its weight
>>44373120>I presume you'd ask men to tolerate such signaling (KAM, MvB, and so on) from the left w/o complaint.I hope I wouldn't.That's kind of why I'm trying to differentiate between shitheels on xitter and, like, Real People. I think xitter shitheels are the majority of people unironically drinking out of Male Tears mugs and they can safely be shunted out of polite conversation.>I'm just saying *why* people won't throw off the chains you wish them toI got the feeling>would not say a self-respecting man could not consider voting for I don't expect men to vote for people who genuinely disrespect them.>>44373201The problem is that asking people out is sort of socially fuzzy and complicated and everyone is different so you kind of can't create real hard rules around it.Having everything be Open Season lead to a lot of problems. It is genuinely hard to -be- when men are on your ass 24/7.On the other hand sure there should be an outlet.Dating platforms should have been the fix for this but they aren't really required to do anything so they turned to shit.>>44373235Its a fine proxy test for the kinds of issues young men get hung up on. The kind of young men who fall for tate are both so young and so, 'malebrained', that this is unironically a major pitfall for them. They're really interested in themselves and trying to route out their life that they either can't or don't care to see past their own problems. Whether they're right or wrong they do get hung up on this shit and people can either get real good at getting them to cut it the fuck out and look at the bigger picture or get real good at putting bandaids on the small stuff till you can actually fix the bigger big issues.
>>44373376Truthnuke, especially if they let chudslop take the wheel of their lives.>Trans people would actually be very sympathetic... if it wasnt for... reactionary bullshit forcing us all on the defenseBingo. And because we live in Slopworld, the inverse is also true; they feel they must defend "their" group, not realizing that the farm has rotted away in a blight and they're being sold goat testicle transplants by a huckster desperately running for Governor of Kansas to get his medical license back as a cure-all.
>>44373393>xitter shitheels>dating is rightfully socially fuzzyThe problem is, when you can't tell, or can't trust your instincts on who is being polite, being a friend, or interested in more, you look outside, and see the poison. And even when you know it's poison, you assume others are thinking like the poison, even if you know it's maladaptive. If you assume social hostility is around every corner, it's logical. Even if you reject the malice these people push, the insecurity knaws at you if you can't risk testing otherwise; and if you can't test it because a minefield has been placed there, you tend to blame the nearest minelayers.>"extreme male brain" people who have a hard time with social fuzziness? hmm...This demographic of, frankly, autists/autist-adjacent people I describe, though, are merely the start of this, not the broad mass, as easy as an explanation as that is.>it's a fine proxy testTrue. Tate wasn't just for those types though, he (and Clavicular) rode that to mass appeal among the "edgy boy/failure to launch" demo through cultural hyperstition from the "founding groups" of redpill and blackpill posters.A canary falls in a coal mine first because its lungs are weaker than a human's, but a human's lungs will fill up with dust anyway under the same circumstances; why can't that be true of social phenomena?I think we agree that a lot of this, both the influencer side and the app side, are downstream of misaligned profit incentives (the ad/attention economy being inherently at odds with the resolution of what gets you to pay attention in the first place).Anyways, the Imperial Gamble of Trump II, wherein he would either fix things or render them massively worse (a la Zeihan?) and thus force reform has shaken out, and it's virtually certainly the latter; Things Will Get Worse.
>>44373428...the they in "their group" here refers to Chudslop Consumers who listen to GOPmaxxers who push things like "become an HVAC repairman; don't go to college" and the like. Not sure if that was clear. (Goat Testicle guy was John R. Brinkley, and that actually happened, btw.)
>>44373556>Even if you reject the malice these people push, the insecurity knaws at you if you can't risk testing otherwiseYes this is a major issue. Poisoning the well. It doesn't help that to some degree we live in an age of irony. Everybody is hiding their power level a bit more than they used to. You can never know what's a tell vs what's a joke and you aren't allowed to ask because you'll be accused of caring too much or something else. It's one thing for some people around you to be transparently detrimental to your interests, and a whole other thing for you to never be able to tell. >are merely the start of this, not the broad massIt feels like one can never really grasp what The Average Person actually thinks. It's always so elusive despite being abundant>both the influencer side and the app side, are downstream of misaligned profit incentivesI hate it. So so bad. Feel like a good chunk of bad business is also just riding the coattails of capital firms. A dating app that had to make money in the long-term based solely on direct sales might alone be different enough in structure to serve its customers honestly
>>44373706>It doesn't help that to some degree we live in an age of irony.>You can never know what's a tell vs what's a joke and you aren't allowed to ask because you'll be accused of caring too much or something else.Agreed. Not even just irony, but that the same people telling jokes will have zero patience for any mirror on the other side; TNDposters would be among the first to slapfight with radfems; and KAMposters would have zero patience for TNDoids; which leads an outside observer to rightfully assume that most of them mean what they say *enough* to never tolerate the opposite message of a similar charge, rather than them being tolerant of irony and edgy humor. Everyone becomes Captain Jankowski staring at a Sharlin's open gunport, paranoid and "misinterpreting", but *is* it a misinterpretation? There are so many wolves among the sheep that you may as well start openly howling and open up a shop selling bones to chew; it's not like there'd be a difference.>It feels like one can never really grasp what The Average Person actually thinks. It's always so elusive despite being abundantTrue, there are whole industries that live and die trying to do this, but it's not even just the average; it's the larger slop-gobbler subset that clearly isn't the initial crowd I described, but isn't the Ordinary Man either.>A dating app that had to make money in the long-term based solely on direct sales might alone be different enough in structure to serve its customers honestlySaaS/subscription models becoming common means that this would still incentivize a given app to drag out the time period spent between signup and a long-term relationship forming (if not the time spent *on the app itself*). I wouldn't be surprised if their algos were knowingly tuned to give an occasional (incompatible) match that they know *won't* result in an LTR, just to keep repeat customers.This convo has gone surprisingly well, considering the circumstances.
>>44361366a lot of the incentives to touch grass have simply been removed or the value proposition has become completely fucked. i pretty much live like a hikki now but when i went to japan i actually wanted to go out and do things again, in a large part because there were actually things to go out and do.
