Let's be charitable for a moment and assume trans people are all inherently mentally ill: Why do these people pretend that's a valid reason to be violent and to be spiteful towards troons? Would they do this to people with PTSD? Depression? Schizophrenia? Even in this charitable interpretation of trans people as mentally ill it just seems bizarre and cruel to be as hateful as transphobes are. I recently realized I'm trans and while I won't let the bastards win and force me into the closet forever, I just wish people could be less needlessly and deliberately cruel. How do these people convince themselves they're Christians? Jesus commands one loves their neighbor as themselves.
>>44525873>Would they do this to people with PTSD? Depression? Schizophrenia?Yes.NPCs live for sadism.
>>44525873Because most people are cruel and trannies are an acceptable target.
>>44525873I think many trans people are just so crazy, retarded, dangerous and rude that to them, it is no longer an act of cruelty but of justice. Obviously it is not the majority of trans people but it is enough that someone who has zero trans people in their life will extrapolate these people as a universal example of what trans people are like. Its unfortunate but I can't really blame them. I think this is all part of the plan by certain powers that be. Have certain trans people loudly and antagonistically push some objectively stupid and revolting thing, dumb people either double down on it to show their "allegiance" to progressivism / lgbt-ism, or sensible but gullible low IQ people will fall for the bait and denounce it which only reinforces the opposing faction etc. Its just a perfect fake conflict and distraction. Well done mossad. The world as it is is a cosmic joke in a lot of ways. t. tranny
>>44525873>Would they do this to people with PTSD? Depression? Schizophrenia?it isn't difficult to find random normies demonizing these and even they get off relatively light compared to like literally any personality disorder
>>44525927I can blame them pretty easily. I shouldn't be mistreated for another person's deeds
>>44525873They don’t view you as mentally ill but as evil to be removed like cancerIndividually they’d rather kill you thsn let you exist in their societySnd overall they want to treat you how Jews treat Palestinians or how nazis treat JewsAa corrupting agents of society as blight if their world as Whst you areNot a people but a meme that has outlived it’s member and had gone airborneTrannies are human and they pricreate through memes rape or worse.Die
>>44525873They have no souls, they don't introspect, they're demon cattle bred for industry and rape, they torture us with no cognitive dissonance because they don't think or feel anything for themselves, they are fundamentally and ontologically retarded
>>44525975On a personal level I agree with you, but if im zooming out of myself i think the antagonism towards trans people just makes sense. Like have you seen how some of ours act? Its insane, it honestly makes me want to hide from the world even more just to not be associated.
>>44525994So would it be accurate to say most who call us mentally ill are just lying?
Transphobes lives aren't going well.
>>44525873Normies don't really have empathy for anyone actually different from themselves
>>44526023YepThey barely care
>>44525873They've been inundated with violent propaganda about "just wars" for years. They are not actual followers of Jesus' teachings in the bible, but they can still call themselves "Christian" since this has been the religion forever and the literal doctrine from the Vatican until up to Pope Francis (who so many of them despised). Same religion who tortured people until they converted, same religion that hid (still hides) abuse against children, same religion that invaded countries to turn the people against their own families. They're evil. Trans people are just one of the many in the long list of victims of the Catholic church or Christians in general.
>>44525873> Would they do this to people with PTSD? Depression? Schizophrenia?Yes. This is the same type of person that engages with “lolcow culture”, where they basically gangstalk and harass people for fun. They are fundamentally antisocial subhuman freaks. Miserable people that will always seek out someone or something to torture because they are broken inside. The kind of “people” that tortured animals as kids.Evil is real.
>>44525959oldfag here, and I can confirm that up until the millennium people acted this way about depression too. >”stop feeling sorry for yourself, don’t you know that’s selfish?”>”you know i was sad once and i didn’t let it turn me into a miserable sad sack”>”these people just need to stop having a negative mindset, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy”>”have you even tried getting off you lazy ass and doing anything about it?”>”back in my day no one needed antidepressants”>”how can you expect to get better when you’re wallowing around in your misery?” >”I’m pretty sure this is all just an attitude problem”A lot of boomers still think this way.
>>44526021So suddenly generalizing is fine when it's trannies?
>>44526081My mom thinks like that lol
>>44526522The thing is I dont think its generalizing in the same sense (compared to other groups) when its literally like, such a sizable percent of us. Its not like a loud 1% minority, id reckon its like a third or close to half of all trans people. And its because people transition specifically to be part of THAT group. I think if we gatekept transitioning and lgbt spaces more this wouldnt happen. As i think people with genuine actual dysophoria and not an alternative motive for how they are totally the opposite gender have a much lower likelihood of being said optics bomb.
>>44526551Mental gymnastics here is insane. You're just as bad as abusers for defending them as if they have anything to lose from treating individuals as individuals. They don't. Being a piece of shit and filtering out who you keep for company are two entirely different things and for you to couple them together to justify hurting innocent people is disgusting. Make the world a better place and kill yourself retard.
>>44525873Read Violence and the Sacred by Rene Girard. Violence is an infection like a virus, it just needs a host and that host is compelled to spread it. Any new host weak enough to succumb to it is it's first target as the plague starts to spread, and a mentally ill minority with no social support nets is the weakest host it can find right now. This process will not stop and things will get worse, not just for us either. Very bad times are ahead for everyone.
>>44526648Alrght continue being oblivious to the world around you. When they do throw us in camps or federally ban diy you can pat yourself on the back for refusing to have personal accountability. Btw just out of curiousity, let me guess? You identify as a lesbian?
>>44526680>They were definitely going to stop slavery on their own if we just convinced them having slaves was goodHave you never heard of game theory retard? There's no historical trackrecord of capitulating to retards returning us any kind of longterm or systemic mercy. Only matching or exceeding their power and influence with our own message. It doesn't even work with your parents you just turned into a fucking carpetlicking pussy. I'm not a dyke but I'm more man or woman than you'll ever be.
>>44525873>violentwho exactly is being violent towards you?and no, peacefully lobbying to change laws regarding your access to sex-specific spaces, state funding for your surgeries, and what ages those surgeries can safely be performed are not "violence" either
>>44525873You're saying that church people are violent towards trans people?
>>44526081>>44526525Both my parents think like this.
>>44525975>I shouldn't be mistreated for another person's deedsAren't you doing the same shit, by blaming and denouncing all Christians?
>>44525873Cisgender people aren't ensouled
>>44525873many many people are cruel and vindictive all the fucking time. people fly off the handle just because they're a little hungry and dinner was late. most people do not cultivate any kind of emotional resilience whatsoever and just lash out at things that make them uncomfortable
>>44525873Stay away from the children, and no one will give a fuck. But, you can't seem to follow that advice. Of course parents and society are gonna despise the trannies ''liberating'' trans minors by sending them hrt.
>>44526845I wish a tranny had groomed me into starting hrt as a kid.
>>44526845You see children as objects and not people capable of self-determination
>>44526868>You see children as objectsI see children as minors. And you should too. They don't have the same rights that adults do.
Goyim believe the values drilled into their heads in so far as they are trained to believe those values. Respect private property, be a humble serf, revere your masters, never use violence, etc.But while the goy is trained and broken, it is not yet domesticated. Without explicit conditioning with specific examples, the creature will revert back to its natural inclinations. Moreover, they will be especially eager to indulge in these desires that are normally denied.This behavior can be observed with trans people, or indeed anyone who is deemed to have transgressed agains the masters’ will. An otherwise docile specimen can exhibit extreme and gratuitous fantasies of violence against offending groups. That a latent desire to kill, maim, and torture does not square with their stated values does not seem to occur to these simpleminded creatures.
>>44526867>I wish a tranny had groomed me into starting hrt as a kid.And your parents would've despised such tranny. If you want to influence children, then become a parent and influence YOUR children. The other kids are NOT yours. They already have parents and guardians. Your influence isn't welcome.
>>44526873Yup, and I still believe minors should have access to life-saving medical care. I was a minor who didn't have any rights or self-determination and my life is forever ruined because of it. I knew I was trans definitively when I was 10, I felt very wrong before then but didn't have a word for it
>>44526875>a latent desire to kill, maim, and tortureThe message from society has been extremely clear. Stay away from children. That's far from ''kill, maim, and torture''.
>>44526800The people who beat and kill others for being trans, retard.
>>44525873Trannies are easy to paint as “people who deserve it” so any actions they do against them are justified. “you’re grooming children into Satanism by existing” etc etc. It also helps if you imagine the people doing this as barely sentient and not having thoughts.exhibit a, it’s closer to a plant than a human as you can see: >>44526845
>>44526893>Yup, and I still believe minors should have access to life-saving medical careAnd that should be talked with a licensed doctor and/or their parents. Never with a discord tranny.
>>44526880>your parents would've despised such trannyProbably not as much as they currently despise me for being a depressed alcoholic repper neet.
>>44526845Why are you assuming shit about me?
>>44526880>And your parents would've despised such tranny.my parents are fucking retards who had no right to keep me from saving my body from masculinization. i will spit on my mother's grave for what she did to me.>The other kids are NOT yours.and this goes to show what a disgusting worldview you have. you think that children inherently, metaphysically *belong* to their genetic progenitors. children are full-fledged, independent human beings who are every bit as entitled to human rights as you and i. i had a right to bodily autonomy that was stomped on by my shithead parents, and you want parents to continue to stomp on children's rights for the rest of time. you want children to continue to be abused, ignored, belittled, and treated as less than human. you want to give one human unquestionable, unlimited decision making power over another human just because they got fucking laid. you are a fascist pig.
>>44526904I talked with my parents and they denied me, and now my life is miserable and I can never get back the time and undo the irreparable damage to my body. I knew from 10 what I needed to do, I advocated for myself, I was refused what I needed. You are a soulless, cruel retard if you think this is a positive outcome. I am not saying that children should receive random pharmaceuticals from adults on Discord; I am saying that children should have the right to independently make medical decisions for themselves, including having the right to transition before their body is permanently ruined by natal puberty and testosterone.
>>44526897... is incredibly rare, and most impacts black trans women sex workers for very obvious reasonsi dont think any of the people who "hate" you want you to die or to even touch or talk to youi think you are probably just a random pampered white trans girl that no one has ever been overtly violent towards for any reason
>>44526845It scares me how normies believe this braindead propaganda about me :(
>>44527102They don't, it's just justification to be monsters. Normies can do anything horrible if they dehumanize first
>>44527101>incredibly rareIt really isn't, and not everyone lives in a libshit first world country.
>>44527177They believe it. The average person is just retarded especially when emotional. Managing your emotions is barely required to make money. You just get told to fake it or to do what your parents tell you with no additional reasoning.
>>44525873>How do transphobes justify being cruel and vindictive?Because hons are disgusting freaks but non-op passoids are meant to be treasured.
>>44525873I don't think you guys realise how annoying you became. Doesn't help that a lot of you don't actually feel any sort of body dysphoria, and the trendy tranny scene exploded into existence and now you have retards trying to call themselves queer for being """""non-binary""""" and if you question that at all it's somehow transphobic People are cruel and vindictive to trannies because a good chunk of you are very loud and annoying and thus become the picture for every tranny, and don't do anything to try and paint a better image for yourselves
>>44527213Literally soulless creatures
>>44525873I guess it depends what you mean by violence and spite.If you mean things like denying gender-affirming care, then the answer is they DO think you’re mentally ill—and your delusion shouldn’t be indulged. In their minds, it’s like a crazy person showing up at the doctor, demanding their perfectly healthy leg be amputated because “the aliens put an evil spirit in it.” The doctor obviously shouldn’t cut the leg off; the proper treatment is something else (therapy, anti-psychotics, etc.).If you mean something truly violent, like physical assault, I don’t have a good answer. People fear what is different and unknown. They genuinely believe you are part of a harmful contagion. But that does not excuse violence.
>>44525873What about ASPD, BPD, NPD, etc.?
>>44527319IDK much about those mental illnesses so I can't say much in depth but I hope people with those issues can get mental health help
>>44527271To be frank cognative dissonance is apart of everyone which is the phenomenon we're describing here. Normally I'd just agree they're "soulless" but I don't think you are someone that thoroughly understands what that means so it'd be irresponsible to join you in making fun of them.Like everyone they don't keep track of all of their beliefs and contradict themselves by underestimating how consistent they are and how much effort goes into being correct. So justifications to many conclusions feel "beneath them", or obvious. And they interpret--much like you have in this thread--alternative perspectives as an Insincere form of gaslighting, to be met with aggression.How much you deserve to rag on normies is directly proportional to how seriously you take factchecking yourself. This amount of autism is about how seriously I take it.
>>44525873They're p-zombies put here by the demiurge to torture those who are truly ensouled
>>44527400This so much.
>>44527389It's something that goes beyond that though. One thing is taking beliefs for granting and another is dehumanizing minorities to justify torture. Like people gloating whenever a trans woman dies
>>44527490In most cases, no. They see their aggression as a form of self-defense. Soldiers self-defense themselves into killing entire villages of innocent men, women and children for their country. Something they believe they are uniquely qualified to do due to poorly questioned belief in a job that "needs to be done by real heroes, doing the ugly work citizens can't handle and don't need to see."They can and will justify anything especially in groups.I take cognative dissonance and self-awareness so seriously because it is the only thing that seperates you from animals.There's no soul. There are only biological and enviormental factors you happened to come across in your life 1% of which you keep track of or have conscious control over.Consciousness,not freedom.Free will is also not real. It is a heuristic we created to take mobilize eachother towards accountability regardless of if any individual could help their circumstances due to their being too many humans and individual circumstances to measure, rather than a thorough understanding of biology or psychology.Sorry.
>>44527566Nothing to be sorry about, I don't believe in free will either. I just disagree about it being done on self-defense, humans are sadistic
>>44527578The average person is aware that if they break any social rules they will be ostracized so they cannot be evil. It is tiring to be intentionally evil in a way that specifically avoids breaking social rules. Try it. You will give up in a day.That kind of behavior is reserved for a small percentage of motivated ASPDs.The average person only stumbles into similar patterns by justifying bad behavior as good. That is why most believe in a god while misinterpreting their religion and failing to follow religious tenets set forth by him, taking them to dogmatic extremes.
>>44527628That's why I'm saying they dehumanize first. It's a way to convince themselves and others, and if the majority is already doing it they feel safe doing the same
>>44527704No they dehumanize *after* they feel you are trying to gaslight them and hurt them. Which is how they interpret all their hurt feelings about being confronted. That is self-defense from their perspective not simply an attempt to destroy you. You don't know what you're talking about and I'm tired of you. Stop talking back to me retard.
>>44527102>It scares me how normies believe this braindead propaganda about me :(There literally are trannies responding with how it's okay to interfere with other people's kids, and send them hrt. It's not propaganda. It's very much real.
>>44526962>you think that children inherently, metaphysically *belong* to their genetic progenitors.Correct. Legally, they belong to their parents. They don't belong to discord trannies. Children's rights aren't being stomped. Because they don't have a right to access hrt and srs. No. The power is given to adults, because children can't make such decisions for themselves. They don't have the mental capacity to understand long term consequences. Do you truly believe that you could become the opposite sex, if only your parents had agreed on giving you hrt? would you have grown the opposite sex reproductive organs? Stop blaming them for something that can't even be achieved.
>>44526893>my life is forever ruined because of it.That still doesn't give you a right to send hrt to someone else's kids.
>>44527012>I am saying that children should have the right to independently make medical decisions for themselvesThat's nonsense. Children have near 0 knowledge about life.
>>44527744Lol now you stopped talking all high and started doing what you criticized
>>44526081Same with PTSD, "just get over it" and "that shit is made up, you're just a pussy", and normies want people with schizophrenia shot or locked behind a padded cell forever, because they can actually be murderously dangerous
>>44527770>>44527810>>44527823>>44527840ever heard of "rights in trust"?
>>44525873The sooner you accept transmedicalism, the sooner we can return to the actual real debate of curing or at least alleviating the symptoms and legally and justifiably turn you into the gender you are insideThings were going fine until the (((powers))) that be decided to seed the idea that "everyone is trans", "there's a thousand genders" and "you just have to say you're a woman, you don't need to take steps to show it outwardly" Also every deranged rapehon in a dress and heels teaching at universities gets posted everywhere as " examples" of transkind, more "normal" transfolk living their lives need to be shown to exist
>>44526845Your entire worldview is founded on the delusion that if everyone was raised 'right' they'd be identical to you, you think you are an archetypal human with perfect views and thoughts and any deviation from yourself must be an aberration. You are fundamentally a narcissist.
>>44527810The 2 trannies you're arguing with a retarded. They haven't considered that gender affirming care can have permanent affects on the child's health that the child later wouldn't want. Which is the same reason why we don't let minors drink.That being said, you're retarded for not pointing that out to them. You don't need to make this stupid discord trannies argument it's not going to hold against nonretards.Argue for 18.The only interesting discussion to be had is what age results in the least regret while treating the most patients.That's the "maturity line" or "line of consent" the same way it's 18 for you to no longer be considered a minor. The lower the age bracket the more "regret" or detransitions there are, studies show; only ever less than 10 percent of people who transition detransition. 18-20 have the most patients but it might have to be lower than that since there isn't much control data for the studies I pulled this information off of to work with; 18 could be our current number solely because those people are escaping their parents which is not a reflection of the patient's preferences or the maximum satisfaction we can achieve through our gender affirming care laws.
>>44525873They think it's like AIDS or the cooties where the ideology, the cognition of the concept of the possibility that one could maybe be queer in some fashion, is a viral contagion--AND that you are an active transmitter of said contagion looking to infect others. They want to make it an offense, in terms of law, so they look to manifest their kind of justice in other ways when they are prevented in the courts. Or, it is actually law where they are from and they are just upholding their morality.
>>44527891Cognative dissonance requires you have a right conclusion for me to dissociate from. But you're just retarded and should shut the fuck up retard.
>>44527996Actually, the data shows that the lower the starting age of transition, the lower the regret rates. Every single detransitioner study I've looked at has demonstrated that both detransition is more common and that "total regret" cases are more heavily concentrated in those who transition after the bulk of puberty.
>>44528077Never mind that the most common reasons for detransition are always social, religious or work concerns. That doesn't indicate someone wasn't trans or that transitioning is wrong, but that society itself was set against them.
>>44528077You are probably looking at continuation rates and not detransition. Or it could be on my end that a study is counting not continuing as detransitioning. Regardless defining and calculating regret is something I'm leaving to you three.
>>44527810>Legally, they belong to their parents.i didn't say legally, i said metaphysically. the law is just the rules our society has agreed to abide by and offers no basis to make such a statement.>They don't belong to discord trannies.they don't 'belong' to anyone.>Children's rights aren't being stomped. Because they don't have a right to access hrt and srs. >i'm not stomping on children's rights i'm just saying they necessarily don't have the same rights as adults until the end of time>The power is given to adults, because children can't make such decisions for themselves.to which adults? under what conditions? what consequences can those adults face for making the wrong decision on the child's behalf? why does helping someone who is not as capable have to look like treating them as inherently beneath and subservient to someone else? why is the focus not on helping the child best self-actualize their desires, but rather on giving the parent free reign to enact their desires for the child?weak, weak excuses for a repugnant system of oppression.>Do you truly believe that you could become the opposite sex, if only your parents had agreed on giving you hrt?i don't really gaf about the semantics. i would be happier, healthier, more well-adjusted, better off in life, etc. etc. if my parents had agreed to give me hrt. keeping me from accessing the medication i needed was an objectively harmful act that made my life worse. my parents restricted my autonomy and self-expression my entire childhood and it only served to placate them while making me suffer. they had no right or authority to subject me to what they did, they just happened to exist under a social framework that let them get away with it.my mother verbally and sometimes even physically abused me so many times. she'd pin me into corners, she'd scream at me, she'd tell me how worthless and disgusting i was for hours. children need recourse, children need RIGHTS just like everyone else.
>>44528570>. the law is just the rules our society has agreed to abide by and offers no basis to make such a statement.The basis is that kids are unable of thinking things through, like most adults would.
>>44528570>semanticsChanging your sex, isn't semantics. You wish for the impossible. You'd be as unhappy had you taken the hrt. Because you can't be what you want to be. Children have rights. Choosing to take hrt isn't one of them. A kid has no idea what it means to become infertile, become a life long patient, effects on their health, ... Your story isn't unique. Billions of cisgender kids have gone through hard times, and have had choice taken away by their parents. Children have dumb desires. Given them free reign, would inevitably end in a higher number of them ruining their lives, than improving them as in your case. I wish you well. Learn to be happy with what you got. And stop attempting to meddle between parent-child relationships. It's none of your business. Going through the human stages of growth, isn't abuse in any way, shape or form.
>>44529732>You'd be as unhappy had you taken the hrtnta but no lmao
I am kind and considerate to people with other mental problems. I'm only mean to you guys, because I enjoy it tbhon
>>44529732>Changing your sex, isn't semantics.whether or not you use the word female to describe me is semantics. i don't care what definition of female you have, truly. it is irrelevant to the fact that it would have been the correct decision to allow me to take hormones.>You'd be as unhappy had you taken the hrt.kys, you don't know me you self-centered freak. the actual fuck i would be as unhappy, why would you say something so profoundly stupid that's literally incapable of convincing me because unlike you i actually live inside my brain and know my own feelings and know its absurd.if you think transition in general is bad and stupid and no one should do it then thats its own retarded opinion, don't dress it up as you just looking out for kids.>Children have rights. Choosing to take hrt isn't one of them.says you, you nasty fascist pig.>A kid has no idea what it means to become infertile13 year old me could definitely get my head around not being able to get people pregnant anymore, and she would say hell fucking yes get me on this shit right now just like i would today.>become a life long patientCORNBALL, i guess by that logic kids should never take meds lest they become a horrible traumatized **patient**!!! how scary! scary word, arent you scared, think of the children!>effects on their health, ...all very uncomplicated and all also applies to other meds. you just make a fuss about it for hrt specifically because you're a raging transphobe. and that's your prerogative, but just come out and admit it.>Children have dumb desires.i entirely disagree. my desires as a child for my body were perfectly reasonable and they persist to this day. i had a right to act on those desires.(cont.)
>>44529732Aaaand here is the actual reason. These people do not believe that trans women are women. They don't believe that a child is born trans. They're as evil as any other homophobe or a bigot.
(cont.)>>44529732>would inevitably end in a higher number of them ruining their lives,objectively false, detransition rates are close to 1%. so instead of 99 trans kids lives' being ruined like mine was, 1 cis child would have that experience and resources could be dedicated to help them in the aftermath, and since they're cis they'd be in a better position to detransition than a trans person who's gone through their natal puberty would be to transition. not to mention they'd just naturally get a lot more sympathy and acceptance than trannies do.>Learn to be happy with what you got.i will never be happy with this deplorable world, and if you allow yourself to be you are putting the wool over your eyes.>And stop attempting to meddle between parent-child relationships.and by parent-child relationships you mean owner-property relationships, because that's how you think children should be treated. you want a child to have as much of a say in their medical care as a dog does. again, you are a fascist.>It's none of your business.it was none of my parents' business to deny me the treatment i needed, yet here we are. i am interested in humans not suffering, if a human is suffering i will happily make it my business.>Going through the human stages of growth, isn't abuse in any way,treating transsexuals just as you would a cissexual because puberty happens to be 'natural' is fallacious and a repugnant human rights abuse. to be transsexual is to experience intense pain from going through 'the human stages of growth' (and by THE human stages you of course mean their natal sex's stages of growth as opposed to the one that actually aligns with their psyche).
>>44529837When my body didn't align with my psyche I was also cruelly forced to go through "natural growth". Horrendous medical abuset. recovered anorexic
>>44529884Trans women are not gay men you absolute piece of shit.
>>44529890Don't bother wasting your time responding to retards like this.
>>44529900You're right. Thank you.
>>44529873Meal replacements are hrt for skinnies
>>44529873if you think anorexia and transsexualism are comparable you are just a transphobe which is a separate topic from the conversation at hand and a generally worthless opinion you should feel bad for having. one is a psychological condition caused by trauma that comes with extremely negative health repercussions which can be resolved with therapy, the other is a neurodevelopmental disorder that changes the brain's sex expression in a fundamental way that necessarily causes gender dysphoria and which can be treated with little to no health risks via bioidentical hormones.
>>44529951if you want to convince someone gender dysphoria is a myth its probably not a winning strategy to try to make your argument to someone who experiences it every day. you are a retard and denying very easily observable facts because trannies existing makes you uncomfortable
>>44529732>Learn to be happy with what you got. This argument is always funny because this tends to be what transition boils down to. Like I've learned to accept that I have a fucked up brain that expects me to have tits and a pussy, so I'll do something to get as close to that as I can.
>push endless hatred against whites especially white men for a decade>advocate for discriminating against white people especially white men in employment, education, welfare and healthcare>lobby corporations to destroy the lives of anyone that has a disagreement with transgender ideology>shoehorn trannies into ever single piece of new media and art>demand previous pieces of art or media are rewritten to include trannies and censor white people out of it>advocate violence against anyone that has a disagreement transgender ideology >mandatory they / them transgender pledge's of allegiance in workplaces >mandatory tranny lessons for your child starting in kindergarten >drag shows in schools because ?????>straight people that don't want to suck dick are transphobic and literally deserve to go to prison at a minimum or otherwise be lynched >allied with a political coalition that hates white people, hates white nations, hates white culture and history and floods the first world with illegal migrants that destroy the standard of living for everyone >gloat about the destruction of white nations, the only nations you aren't killed, lobotomized or forced to work as a sex slave whore >wonder why white people, the only people that have ever had any semblance of tolerance for trannies now hate you
>>44529982Ok sillu
>>44525873Pretty easily, we don't consider you to be human. I want to make this very clear, troons: every day that you aren't beaten within an inch of your life is a day that society has decided to treat you more kindly than you deserve.Stay away from kids.
>>44525873Average normgroid is not sentient and would vote for putting everyone mildly different from them into a death camp.
>>44529988>just accept being gay, pleaseyou are incapable of understanding that other people have different experiences from you
>>44529982Literally none of this happened in my very culturally isolated part of the world and people hate trannies just as much.
>>44530034Anon hates asians so much he wants to kill them twice. And what the fuck is the point about beauty pageant? That's way too specific.
>>44530034put psychologists on that listand psychiatrists and HR workersbut especially psychologists, if you get rid of psychologists i will support any amount of death campism
>>44530037yeah. you are brown, you a three generations removed from literal cannibals
>>44530034aww look at the little chud fantasizing about having any actual power in the world
>>44530058I'm from a middle of nowhere town in Russia. Whether that is better or worse than being brown, remains a question.
>>44525873>Would they do this to people with PTSD? Depression? Schizophrenia?Yes. They do.
>>44530066not really a question, you have Sub-Saharan levels of AIDS and omnipresent homosexual rape - brown countries are significantly more pleasant
>>44530083If there's "omnipresent homosexual rape", how come I can't even find another fag in this godforsaken shithole?
>>44525927My ex, a trans girl, cheated on me with another trans girl, who was openly a pedophile, solely because she smoked and my ex thinks women who smoke are absurdly hot. The full details of the entire ordeal could fill like 3-4 posts but that's the jist of it. I've told the story a few times, once in a server full of trans girls. Multiple of them outright told me they were astonished that I wasn't transphobic after that. I don't think that's entirely true if we wanna be pedantic but my thoughts and statements do not fall under, well, the kinda shit you see people posting here that's clearly just ragebait.It's no secret that most trans people are autistic. It's also no secret a lot of them have personality disorders. Transition for whatever reason, suddenly you have a 'community'. A lot of them will defend anything and everything you do. You're given absurd amounts of leniency just for being on E. Because of this they never learn how to act decent. They never improve as a person. They rationalize that because TERFs and Tradcaths hate them, that they must always exist within survival mode, and that means that anything goes so long as you stay alive. The median trans person just fucking sucks as a person. The ones who aren't overwhelmingly awful are not exactly good. They just exist and are kind of weird, and keep to themselves. They're still self serving but in a way that isn't particularly hateable, but more importantly they do nothing to balance out public perception, and also have to choose between either defending the worst cases for the sake of protecting their own way of life, or denounce them and risk instating the 'leopards eating faces' party which can just end up going for them too.
>>44530089join the army
>>44525873I wouldn't characterise myself as violent or spitefulbut I did feel the need to push back against politicised transgenderism - trans people were unarguably put on a pedestal by the Intersectionalist Neomarxist Left at some point, and some began using that newfound political power to try to control speech, and enact censorship, both of which I'm very much againstI don't mind what you call yourself, I think you ought to be able to dress however you like (as long as it's appropriate), neither of those things bother meI genuinely want you to lead a happy, long life, and find lovebut on the other hand I'm not going to be politically silenced or coerced into believing any delusions you might have about yourselfI reject gender theory wholesale; I simply don't believe in the concept of gender as distinct from biological sex; I don't really believe in the modern institution of 'identity' at alleven sexual orientation is suspect to me insofar as it becomes an identity - straight, gay, bi, whatever: I don't think these actually exist in a meaningful way beyond being labels people attach to themselves as automythologywhen we attach labels, we make it impossible to know anything about our actual nature and essence; we begin the process of confusing the mental self-portrait with the true selfthey're not the same thing in my opinion; I don't believe we're defined by what we think of ourselvesthe more extreme MtF trans people are the superlative example of this type of folly; the notion that one can actually BE a woman through the power of thought is frankly nonsense: the reality is that they're men who wish they were women, and no amount of surgery, language-policing, or even high-tech vat-grown female bodies can change thatthey can NEVER be women, because they're not womenI think that's enough to qualify me as one of your 'transphobes', but nevertheless I hope you understand my position: it comes from a place of idealising the truth, not hatred
>>44530197>high-tech vat-grown female bodiesthis literally would make them identical to women in every sense
>>44530213not quite, noit would make them "men who had their brains scooped out and placed in a materially female body", and that isn't what a woman is
>>44530226Close enough for anything that matters
>>44530234I think what something ontologically IS does matterquite a lot, actuallybut you're right: those men could practically live as women - brilliant for them - but they still wouldn't BE women, if you appreciate my position; it would still be technically incorrect to call them women...though at that point of human development, we'll be wrestling with much bigger questions about the nature of being human, so it probably won't matter outside of philosophy departments
Justify?Do you justify the things that fry your dopamine?Also, for a lot people, fighting against the trans "I am a woman" ideology is a super dopamine hit. If you believe your enemies to be evil and fucking up birth rates and the 4th wave feminist ideals....
>>44525873i mean you start out with the assumption that everyone who thinks trannies are mentally ill act cruelly or vindictively towards themnot true though, i think trannies are mentally ill but i don't do that, in fact i just tend to ignore themthough i will say if i see them talking tranny shit in a place completely unretaled to it, it would be my desire to tell them to fuck off
>>44530278I don't personally care much about the ontology, if they're biologically female in every sense that matters, they're women, and vice versa for pooners in this hypothetical future society.
>>44530337Yeah. If you have big gametes and all the surrounding hardware, you're female.
>>44530197>>44530226>>44530278I have a distaste for trans people but to engage in what something "ontologically" is regarding identity is to more or less posit that people are without real autonomy. That the circumstances of their birth dictate their life and subsequent death with a smidge of just good ol dumb luck. Biochemically speaking, estrogen and testosterone produce specific tendencies. But to pretend that it's a 100% track record is luddite shit. And in addition, the majority of personality traits we associate with men vs women can just as well be chalked up to social conditioning. If we had the technology to take the brain of a new born and put into the body of someone who is the "opposite gender", do you think they would innately develop mannerisms, personality traits, interests, etc. associated with the gender of the body they were put into? Spoiler; you shouldn't. Intersex and similar conditions are functionally analogous to that thought experiment and points away from that idea.Really what everyone should be doing is acknowledging that circumstances of birth and upbringing massively influence how a person develops, and if that caused them to become kind of shitty or insipid, show them a path out. If they decline, or even refuse, well, now it's a choice they consciously made. Someone making the conscious choice to be, or remain awful, should be a bigger deal to everyone than the specifics of the labels we place on them regarding sex and gender. But the average person is a regressive midwit so they'll fixate on meaningless pedantics instead because it also means THEY don't have to improve.
trans women are mentrans men are women
>>44530354>people are without real autonomyNta but this is true, we are without autonomy and are slaves to the circumstances of our birth. How can anyone in good faith say we have free will if we can't so much as change our genetics.
>>44530337>if they're biologically female in every sense that matters, they're womenif you want to take a biomechanical-reductionist view of womanhood, then that's your position and you're entitled to itI don't personally think an 'empty' vat-grown female body, which lacks any consciousness whatsoever, is a woman - but by your definition, it seemingly isto me, it's a female body only, and not a woman
>>44530374>We can only stop being mindless sheep when we achieve fantasticized sci-fi concepts irlAdhering to concepts such as "truth" and "justice" are autonomous choices. If your idea of achieving autonomy relies entirely on physicality then you are small minded enough that you are almost certainly bastardizing the very concepts you claim to stand for anyways and nothing you say matters. Like a child who thinks the pinnacle of fairness is everyone in their class getting a cookie.
>>44530404Why shouldn't the concept of free will encompass physicality? Also my 'ideals' aren't born from sci-fi, but are directly downstream of how much I hate my own body and how powerless I am to change it. As far as I'm concerned "truth, "justice", "free will", and "autonomy" are meaningless when regardless I will still be stuck in this decaying corpse for the rest of my life.
>>44530354>to engage in what something "ontologically" is regarding identity is to more or less posit that people are without real autonomyno, I wouldn't agree with that at allthat's a complete misrepresentation of what I'm saying; saying that there are certain essentially-defined boundaries on autonomy is not to say that there's zero capacity for autonomyyou're making too much of a leap - a person can of course wilfully produce certain changes in what they ontologically are - mentally, physically, socially, etc. - but does that change their essence? or is it a product of the essence? - the degree of possible change is what's defined by the essence; the existence of ontological essence LIMITS autonomy, rather than precludes it entirelythat is, unless you're engaging in a 'no true scotsman' regarding your definition of "real" autonomy, but it's self-evident that free will is not boundless - one cannot become a... tractor, through sheer force of willthe circumstances of one's birth as a human DO inherently preclude tractorhoodplease try not engage in strawman arguments
>>44530377>biomechanical-reductionist view of womanhoodI believe the same thing about manhood too.
>>44530445>>44530445"ontological essence" is simply the decision to value one set of idealogical prerequisites for identity over another. It's not anymore fundamental than that just because you call it an essence instead of a an opinion.>I don't believe we're defined by what we think of ourselvesMost retarded and hypocritical thing I've heard in my life. Probably the result in believing in some nonphysicalist bullshit like the soul or "realm of ideas" which never ends well.Not every part of our biology thinks. That doesn't mean thought is distinct from biology. We are what we think. It's as simple as that.
>>44530488I think you're forced into holding that positionand I would put forth the same argument against: a vat-grown male body which lacks a consciousness is not a man... by definition, it's tautologically a 'vat-grown male body'that's simply what it isthen, if you somehow emplaced a FtM woman's consciousness into that body through the wonders of technology - she can practically live as a man, and I would hope we're all very happy for her - nevertheless by definition she's still a woman emplaced into a vat-grown male body, which is not the definition of a man
>>44530444Because "who you are" is not simply how you look, unless you decide to make it so. You're spouting off nihilistic shlock in response to the feeling that you don't get to look how you want, the only takeaway I can have is that vanity and materialism are more important to you than any other kind of philosophical or moralistic idealism, but surely you must recognize that we would never develop the ability to 'change our genetics' if everyone felt the same as you. >>44530445The leaps I was taking was fast tracking the concepts of the discussion. Trying to engage with the immediate, surface level take would quickly just lead to pedantic "what is a woman?" arguments. I do not care to do that, because it's been done to death and the very clear takeaway is that the descriptor of "woman", and just as much, "man", are broad, vague, and fallible no matter how much you try to dig into the minutia and no matter how much things TEND to align. I also didn't want to go over Nietzschean concepts on truth and language for similar reasons. But the short version is, words are arbitrary. Humans do not make up the laws of the universe. The labels we place on things do not shape the world, we label things to communicate about the way the world has been shaped. This is to say, your distinction between "women" and "men who had their brains scooped out and placed in a materially female body" does not matter in any material sense, and only would if there was a concrete idea for how women as a whole act, and if the later deviated from that. Thing is, no matter how deviant, you'll be able to find cis gendered individuals who exhibit the same behaviors. And as such your distinction is more a fetishization of language than an assertion of "fundamental laws of the world".
>>44530590What this guy said. ^
>>44530545>"ontological essence" is simply the decision to value one set of ideological prerequisites for identity over another.no, it isn't: it's that which makes a given thing the kind of thing which it isno choice or decision is involved there, and it's wholly separate from identity as 'perspective of self'if you're talking about A=A logical identity (i.e. the law of identity), then the essence self-evidently defines the identity of a thing, however if you mean self-conception, ego-identity, etc., then no... they're unrelated beyond the causal relation between the underlying essence and the self-image, but the essence obviously precedes ego development, because the thing needs to exist as a self prior to it having a self-conceptionan object doesn't 'decide' what it is, it just is that object
>>44530551We're just arguing semantics at this point, a pooner brain placed into a artificially made male body would be a man by my definition.>>44530590>vanity and materialismYou're reducing it down to that, but it's really not just that.
>>44530648The essence can't precede ego development when it is an idea. And it definitely cant as a justification. It is only essential to how we define something because we decided it is. The universe apart from us has no opinion on cause and effect or the relevance of it to ontology. The natural world didn't create cause and effect either, we did.
If you make someone into an enemy, you can justify almost any treatment of them. At the bottom, transphobes are afraid of death, of annihilation, and see transition as ending your bloodline. So, they hate trannies as they would hate any bringer of death.
>>44528139No I'm looking at actual studies done specifically on detrannies. Earlier transitioners consistently show the least regret and are the most likely to retransition if they detransition.
>>44530590>The leaps I was taking was fast tracking the concepts of the discussionalso called 'reductio ad absurdum'you misrepresented my position and argued against the false version, and you know that that's strawmanning - if you think you're correct, you really don't need to engage in sophistryI'm hardly going to defend a position you've conjured-up to be more easily-defeatable, and unless you just misunderstood me, it leaves me thinking you really don't have faith in your own position>your distinction between "women" and "men who had their brains scooped out and placed in a materially female body" does not matter in any material senseI'm simply saying they're not exactly the same thing, which is self-proving - but e.g. one is a synthetic construct, the other is entirely naturalthere are simply different essential qualities between the two distinct categories of objectyou can try to drag the argument into semantics, but any language which fails to describe a distinction between "a woman" and "a men whose had his brains scooped out and placed in a vat-grown materially-female body" has failed to communicate that difference - a failure of language doesn't prove A=Bwhether that 'matters' or not, in a material sense or otherwise, is a value-judgment on your partI'm not arguing the distinction 'matters', just that there is a very real distinction
>>44530725Link your studies for me.
>>44530729>e.g. one is a synthetic construct, the other is entirely naturalHow strange of you to section off the scientific acts of humans as utterly removed from 'the natural world' but to also hold the stance that we are still entirely defined by unspoken rules of that same 'natural world'.
>>44530667>a pooner brain placed into a artificially made male body would be a man by my definition.it's an idiosyncratic definition, and one where you had to clearly define the two things separately in order to claim that they share the same definitionseems like a self-defeating argument>The essence can't precede ego development when it is an ideathe essence of an object is not an idea - a conception of an essence is, but not the essence itself>The natural world didn't create cause and effect eitheryou can't seriously be arguing that causality didn't exist before humankind - or else how did we get here to invent it? - you're totally confusing the map for the terrain
>>44530771I'm not the same anon as the amyposter. But calling a pooner who has a fully functioning male body "her" and a "woman" in this hypothetical situation is quite a stretch.
>>44530801>fully functioning male bodycan't produce cumtry again
>>44529982Hey nona…any of that shit even fuckin happen?
>>44530751This is the one that comes to mind: https://theonepercentdetrans.substack.com/p/a-groundbreaking-analysis-of-four
>>44530814We're talking about a hypothetical future where we could grow a fully functional male body in a vat and transplant the brain into it.
>>44530007imagine whiteknighting for children lmao
>>44530769>How strange of you to section off the scientific acts of humans as utterly removed from 'the natural world'a dichotomy between the 'synthetic' and the 'natural' isn't my personal sectioning-off, anon - it's commonly-understood distinction>but to also hold the stance that we are still entirely defined by unspoken rules of that same 'natural world'are you imagining there's a contradiction there? - what we can accomplish synthetically is determined ultimately by the fundamental constants of the natural world; the natural precedes the synthetic, and the synthetic exists within the naturalthat a given thing is defined by what it is can't be undone synthetically - it's tautologicaland to be clear I never said 'entirely defined', and even noted there's a degree to which personal choice plays a role - do you always have to argue in bad faith? - we're only essentially defined by our essence, everything else from that
>>44530801but calling her a "woman's brain emplaced into a vat-grown male body" would be perfectly accurate - it would be the MOST accurate descriptionif accuracy is "quite a stretch" for you, I don't really know what to sayyou're obviously free to call her whatever you like
>>44530825It's because the transphobes want to fuck children, obviously
>>44525873Because most of you are sex pests that aggressively lie and crybully their way into spaces to narcissistically make things about them. Or, even MORE insidiously, drag others down into this mopey, decaying/rotting anime girl aesthetic. You know exactly what I'm fucking talking about. Girls Last Tour pfps, reposting art where an anime girl is laying dejectedly in a colorless/drab room, or standing on a ledge contemplating suicide, any number of 'girlfailure' bullshit.All that really is is trying to get others to kill or ruin themselves.So, you are either spiralling into sexual depravity (and I mean that in the sense of unhygienic/mutilative practices rather than MERELY finding the fact two weirdos having sex alone is 'depraved') or spiralling into suicidality/hatred of being a living thing.If I had it my way you people would be institutionalized a year each until you stopped being gross autogynephiles or utterly and pathetically self-absorbed. All the guards would be sawn into pieces and mulched if they mistreated you guys because that would be counterproductive to actually treating you. Yes, you are reading that right; even though I have contempt for the way you live, even in the course of me wanting to stop you, I would gladly have brutalized anyone who would compromise the sincerity of reaching and helping you stop being fucking crazy.
>>44530771>it's an idiosyncratic definition, and one where you had to clearly define the two things separately in order to claim that they share the same definitionseems like a self-defeating argumentAll definitions are self-defeating in the sense that they are ultimately subjective or dependent on opinion.What we are doing when we call something factual or objective is establishing a collectivist framework for truth. We are making systems of individually subjective ideas we deem compatible with eachother.But there's no fundamental reaon to give the signifer 1 the value of 1, even though we'd consider math objective and get consistent results from implementing the same fundamentally subjective ideas.That's why the idea of "essence" is just the choice to define essence as what you did. Nothing more.You're confusing how consistent your framework is for it subverting subjectivity. But the law of noncontradiction even, is just something we created. It's the same with cause and effect.I'm not breaking these down because I don't think there's merit to distinguishing objective information from subjective information mind you. We have to do that to an extent just to engage in coherent conversation.The idea that we don't define what we are is another matter and starts to break down itself when you analyze deeply what a definition is.These are common epistemological critiques of the law of noncontradiction posited by trivialism , dialtheism, etc. Which can't be refuted mathematically. Not something I just made up.
>>44530857If you can call a boat or a car 'she', you can also call call said pooner 'he'.
>>44530912>But there's no fundamental reaon to give the signifer 1 the value of 1, even though we'd consider math objective and get consistent results from implementing the same fundamentally subjective ideas.again you're making the mistake of confusing the map for the terrain - do you understand what I mean by that? - because the symbol denoting '1' is not the number oneyou're saying because the symbol for '1' is arbitrary, that the number one itself has no essencethe symbol is choice - but the number is objectively the number that it isA=A
>>44530914of course you can, especially if you think that that helps the woman
>>44530894Having a studied to be a therapist and had the unfortunate experience of getting into relationships with ex-psych ward participants, your idea most likely wouldn't work. Being sectioned typically just leads to people developing a different form of psychosis that they can present as functional so that they can get out rather than actually 'fixing' them. Last girl I dated developed a schizotypal belief that she had a guardian angel which turned into deep seated delusional positivity in her. What this meant in practice is that she would act however she wanted at any given time, with absolutely no regard for how she hurt others, show only the most surface level amount of regret for her actions, before shrugging and going "oh well. things will just work out!" Both in the sense that the people she harmed would "just get over it" and meet someone better, and in the sense that she would just magically wake up one day and stop being so horrible.
>>44531000That's a cute story! Moving on...I don't think the fact that crazy people will just contrive a sane mask to get out of their confinement justifies releasing them into the wild where they can continue to poison themselves and others with the delusion that getting mutilated can magically change you into the opposite sex. All 'healthcare' for trannies, in real life, not science fiction, is just wildly unhygienic and gross looking cosmetic surgeries. So it is just blatant mistreatment and fake support (FOR MONEY, NOT JUST TO FEEL LIKE A GOOD PERSON, YOU ARE BEING BUTCHERED, POISONED, AND LIED TO FOR M O N E Y) of mentally incompetent/vulnerable people, OR, in the case of the hideous AGP creatures, inflicting a pervert's personal fetishes on the general public. In either case, these people should be locked up temporarily, in separate wards of course, until the former stops being a navel-gazing omni-catastrophizing turbo-insecure wreck and the latter stops being a fucking nonce.
>>44530821The study you linked shows the opposite of what you're saying lmao. I mean it's evidence for the opposite. These are people who already decided to stop their transition not representative of the percentage chance of any age group to detransition or not which I'm aware we can't calculate. 4 groups.Class A: 316 subjects - 20 mean age. 85.4% no longer TGDClass B: 186 subjects - 21 mean age. 37.6% no longer TGDClass C: 182 subjects - 22 mean age. 37.7% no longer TGDClass D: 273 subjects - 22 mean age. 4.7% no longer TGDThere is a trend of older groups wanting to continue transition and younger ones not wanting to.You are making me go on a goose chase because you couldn't interpret your graph or plug it into GPT at least. >>44530956The symbol is simply the number 1 when you decide it is. That's the point you have to refute. I'm not confusing the map for the terrain I'm saying the map IS the terrain and vice versa. Subjective and objective ditchonomy is just choosing to accept the world as apart of us or see ourselves as distinct from it.Which is why I say your position likely has roots in spirituality that you didn't understand the intention of when you adopted it, because that is the only way humans are distinct from the environment or the map is fundamentally different from the terrain.
>>44531066>The symbol is simply the number 1 when you decide it isactually allow me to rephrase: it semiotically points at it, the symbol is not the object
>>44531078Take any object in the brain for example and you immediately have an issue.
>>44531066>Which is why I say your position likely has roots in spiritualityno, I don't think invoking spirituality is at all required to posit that something simply is what it is, rather than what it thinks it is
>>44531066You're an idiot who can't actually read and didn't actually look at the starting ages of each group you dumbfuck. The group with the lowest starting age is the group that has the highest incidence of TGD and highest retransition rates you illiterate fuck.
>>44531093give me a concrete example of what you mean
>>44531066The mental gymnastics you people have immersed yourselves in is fucking astounding. But I know you don't really believe it either, you have this rehearsed to a fucking T so you can keep saying it to yourself. So many words just to justify having autogynephilia, or if you ARE NOT such a person (rare!) you are using so many words to excuse never ever accepting your actual, true circumstances and endlessly immersing yourself in the eternal pity party of 'wanting to become but never able to be' that you can faint on a fainting sofa on about. Either way, trannies are all insidiously and insufferably dishonest people, the ONLY THING distinguishing trannies is whether they are a danger to themselves or others. My sympathies lie solely with those who are only a danger to themselves.
>>44531088>>44531097Okay let's just test your theory. I am my neurons firing. Is this statement true? Can't be true according to you as how we define something cannot be the thing itself.
>>44531116>Can't be true according to you as how we define something cannot be the thing itself.no, again you misunderstand - if a sign semiotically points to the thing, that doesn't imply the sign IS the thing itselfthis is the same sticking point again - map, terrain, etc. - you seem to think the definition of a thing IS automatically the thing, and it's notlet's say for argument's sake that the materialist-reductionist statement:>I am my neurons firingis correctthat definition of you is... not you - it's not your neurons firing, and thus cannot be you if that's how we define you - because it's only a sentence defining what you are, and not youthe definition of a thing is not the thing-in-itself, even in certain linguistic constructs which are created to ostensibly define themselves, e.g.:>this sentence is this sentencein this case the sign and its referent obviously coincide - they semiotically point to each other in an interesting way - but the sign is still not the thing itselfit's like the distinction between a string as an object and the characters it contains
>>44531103The youngest group (A) has the lowest proportion still identifying as TGD at 14.6%.The oldest group (D) has the highest proportion still identifying as TGD at 95.3%.That's an 80.7 percentage point difference. Post your numbers because I don't know where you're getting your conclusion from.The fact that you didn't just do that to me just affirms you're full of shit so.>44531115Nice schitzo writeup. Very funny.
>>44531212>that definition of you is... not you - it's not your neurons firingThe definition is a thought. What is a thought? Surely it's neurons firing.
>>44531218You're looking at current ages rather than initial age of transition you retard.
>>44531242but it's not a thought as it's written there, is it? it's a written sentencea written sentence may be a transcription of a thought... but it's not a thoughtmap, terrain, no? we'll get there
>>44530998You're just doing it on purpose at this point.
>>44531115>justify having autogynephiliaWhy would anyone have to justify it, there's nothing wrong with being agp.
>>44531247Nope, table 4. Those were all for age of medical transition.>>44531281>is it?It is, the moment you decide it is. It can be an extension of you, or not. The issue arises when you believe you can no longer do that, or that anyone can no longer do that. Even though the mind is always associating with an idea in some sense if we believe ideas to come from the mind. The only boundary is how you define self then.But it's important to only keep this in mind on its epistemological relevance. Everyday conclusion begin to break down otherwise as you've correctly intuited. The law of noncontradiction is important but it's just ego at the end of the day, which needs something to bounce off of to make progress.
>>44531459>It is, the moment you decide it is.no, I'm afraid it isn'ta written sentence is simply not the thought which spawned it, nor is it the thought spawned from reading it; they're not the same thing - your position is frankly insaneif I see a stop sign and think "stop!", then that thought is not in actuality a stop sign, and nor is the originating thought behind the stop sign in the first placeif I think of a cup, that cup cannot hold water, and I cannot drink from it, howsoever much I might 'decide' that it is a cupit's a thought of a cup, which is not a cupyou insist on confusing the map for the terrain, presumably because if you confront the reality that one is in fact not the other, then you lose the ability to think yourself into being a woman
>>44531741These aren't actually arguments. You give examples but the only way you explain their relevance is through a personal attack. These are philosophical positions not personal. Just told you I didn't make them up. I could give an argument for what constitutes a woman based on a lot of practical measurements of truth or happiness, completely ignoring trivialism. I'm not trans and I just wanted to point out a flaw in your philosophical framework that was already pointed out by J.C. Beall, Graham Priest and them. If that's all you have you just lose the argument. Cool I guess.
>>44531820presuming the intent behind your position to implicitly question it is a perfectly valid line of argumentation, when your argument seems to be that the sentence written on the page is the exact same entity as the reader, in service of the complete denial of ontological essenceif your goal was to point out a flaw in my "philosophical framework", I fail to see how you've done that - all you've managed to do is repeatedly rephrase the claim that the map IS the terrainit's quite bizarre
Everybody here kill yourselves, you will never know peace since 80% of the world is transphobic, who would support useless retards who cry like a bitch every goddamn second?
>>44531968pipe down basednigger, you are addicted to bbc and nikocado avocado porn
>>44531895The only times I've repeated myself is when you kept mischaracterizing my position as confusing the map for the terrain, so of course I would reiterate that that's not what I'm saying. And I did give distinct explanations each time you just ignored the most recent one to attack me personally. My motivations are irrelevant. Assuming I'm trans is also ad hom. Behave. ->>>44531459>The issue arises when you believe you can no longer do that, or that anyone can no longer do that. Even though the mind is always associating with an idea in some sense if we believe ideas to come from the mind. The only boundary is how you define self then.If the essence of something can be apart of our brain, it can be thought. So what is the difference between an essence that is apart of our thoughts, and one that isnt?It's just your choice to see it that way, or as I said, 'how you define self vs other.'-- it's subjective. The natural world or universe doesn't seperate anything. That requires categories, or thoughts.
>>44532038Nah you are describing yourself, porn is only for pussies, I bet you are addicted to it nigger, shut the fuck up and lower your tone around me
>>44532065ad hom would be attacking you instead of your argumentI countered your argument with clear examples to the contrary, demonstrating that one cannot simply "decide" that a written sentence is ontologically equivalent to a thought, and then questioned if personal bias was leading you to make such an illogical argumentnot the same thing, and it's not fallacious to do soand you've NOT countered my claim that you repeatedly confuse the map for the terrain - e.g. when you confused the Hindu-Arabic numeral for the number 1, with the actual number one itself
>>44532094>shut the fuck up and lower your tone around me
>>44532146That was pathetic as fuck, I bet you can't post better, your images are bullshit, get out of the site and please kill yourself
>>44532143Jane: banana's are naturally yellow.Steve: bananas are naturally pink.Jane: they're yellow because when spectrometer measures the light emitting from them they're around 580 nanometers.Steve: the sign at the stripclub was pink, and it spelled banana. I've seen a smoothie with banana in it that was pink. I've seen fruits like apples with pigmentation mutationsLike no bruh you need to explain the relevance of your examples. You didn't forget how to argue suddenly.And you called me trans to insinuiate bias. I won't hear otherwise, stop bullshitting me and give a real argument. I already gave mine twice. I'm getting bored. Actually I'm done with you for being disingenuous lol.
I am glad that we all agree that Trannies are all mentally ill, and should have no rights as they give nothing back to their communities
>>44532279yes, your examples show how the map is not the terrain, well doneso how do you reconcile this new understanding with your argument that the thought is ontologically the same object as the sentence written on the page, quote:>"the moment you decide it is"by your logic, when Steve decides that he's the strip club sign... then he is, the moment he decided he was...but Steve ISN'T a pink strip club signwould you like to forget that you argued that?
