castration does not change the social sex category you belong to

>>44593475
Correct. There is no third hypothetical production path. There is no third type of gamete.

>>44593494
Wrong I just invented one yesterday. I call it “Z”

>>44593485
That's debatable but certainly SRS changes somebody sex

>>44594302
SRS is glorified castration
changing the shape of your penis does not make you a woman
trans women look male and are male, without exception

>>44594321
No it does not. It gets rid of the penis and crates of vagina, which is the same exterior as a woman's vagina. it doesn't have the organs behind it so it's like a woman who had a hysterectomy. I've been to doctors many times and said I had a hysterectomy and they always believe me

>>44594379
the root of the penis is retained
the head is reshaped into a "clit" it is not removed
the rest of the body is still male shaped

>>44594435
This maybe your experience with mine is totally different they didn't use any part of my penis at all. Maybe it's because I'm a genetic woman?

Isn’t picrel more representative of the trans side?

More importantly, men who transition should be called trans men because they are not women and never will be, and women who transition should be called trans women because they are not men and never will be.
It's obvious that the purpose of calling men transwomen is to make stupid people affirm their delusion.

Also everyone knows. There's no such thing as passing.

>>44593475
true. based/not based

>>44594507
They are women if they have a sex change operation, which I've had and now I'm the same as any other genetic woman who can't have children
Its the only difference

>>44594537
you are a delusional male

>>44594302
>SRS changes somebody sex
lmao
So if humanity is down to only males, all they have to do to survive is chop off half of the men's dicks. Problem solved. Now they can continue the species

>>44594537
Extremely low IQ or trolling

>>44594554
You know better that's not what I'm saying I'm saying that they can't have children it's the only biological difference between a transgender woman who has had full SRS

>>44594572
Why would I care about something is so stupid as an IQ

>>44594554
So women who can't have children aren't women. Fantastic logic anon.

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God I want a sex slave clone of Tom Holland so bad

>>44594605
Something that some people call women which categorically can't have children aren't actually women, correct.
"Trans women" (men who are trans/trans-men) categorically cannot carry a baby. Women can. Some women can have their reproductive function impaired or surgically absent, but that doesn't affect the category to which they belong.
If you cut off your arms and legs it wouldn't make you a snake or a worm. If you surgically attached four additional arms/legs it wouldn't transform you into a spider.

>>44594677
You got that right most of us who had SRS are the same as infertile women. We can't have babies but we still are women

>>44594577
>they can't have children it's the only biological difference between a transgender woman who has had full SRS

A "transgender woman" (man who is trans/trans-man) has several differences from a woman:
A woman has XX chromosomes. A man has XY chromosomes, even if he's trans.
A woman has no SRY gene. A man does, even if he's trans.
A woman has ovaries. A man has testes, and surgical removal of them doesn't render a man not male.
A woman has oocytes. A man does not, even if he's trans.
A woman has a uterus, fallopian tubes, and a cervix. A man does not, even if he's trans.
A woman has menstruation and ovulation. A man does not, even if he's trans.
A woman can become pregnant. A man can not, even if he's trans.
A woman has an ovarian hormone cycle. A man does not, even if he's trans and takes exogenous hormones to mimic what a woman does naturally.
A woman has a vagina, which forms developmentally, has its own microbiology, is self cleaning and self lubricating. A man does not, even if he is trans. He may have a crude reproduction with most of the normal function absent, surgically created from other bodily tissues depending on technique.
A woman has bartholin glands and paraurethral glands. A man does not, and instead has a prostate. Women cannot get prostate cancer, but men can.
Women and men also have different pelvic shapes, shoulder and ribcage dimensions, limb lengths, facial skeletons, and bone geometry in general. It's very easy for experts to tell the difference between male and female skeletons with no other evidence.

>>44594702
If you were women there wouldn't be a need for the category/propaganda term "trans women"

>>44594865
>woman has XX chromosomes. A man has XY chromosomes, even if he's trans.

Are you really bought into a lot of bullshit chromosomes don't really exist.
You can't see them so if you're walking down the street as a woman, nobody's going to say "oh your chromosomes are wrong dear"

>>44594865
Wrong removing the balls does mean that the person is no longer a male they may be identified as a man which is a social identification made by their hair length

>>44594894
Your argument assumes that if you're walking down the street and I call you a man, you will become a man.

>>44594865
>woman has bartholin glands and paraurethral glands. A man does not, and instead has a prostate.

I wasn't born with neither of these. I have no prostate and I don't have to the glands women typically have
Women cannot get prostate cancer, but

>>44594884
technically I'm not a trans woman a trans woman was fully male at one time. I've never been fully male or fully female person since birth

>>44594938
I don't care about your personal story you delusional faggot.

>>44594922
Perhaps so if enough people called me that. But I've never been called a man by anybody even when I wanted to be a man I wasn't really a man I was a boy who would never grow up to be a man

If you didn't have to transition to become whatever you are now, then you are not trans.
And if you weren't born female, it is not possible for you to be a female now.
Therefore you cannot be a "trans woman"

>>44594953
Oh yes, you do and you care about it greatly as far as I can see

>>44594978
I don't really play my transition and if anything I transitioned in babyhood not childhood

Imagine actually having this argument.

Imagine a caveman being brought to the 21st century, seeing all the literal wonders we’ve created, and then some faggot says “oh yeah and men can get pregnant”. Imagine the look on the caveman’s face.

>>44595154
So you're arguing the Primitive people can't understand gender identity and sexuality? I tend to agree

>>44595219
What I’m saying is: “Unga no BUMga”. Even a caveman would know that a man cannot get pregnant.

If you have to argue otherwise AT ALL then you are sadly among the worst of the worst that humanity has to offer, intellectually speaking.

Sooner or later you’ll look at your penis and scream “IT’S NOT A PENIS IT’S A VAGINA SHUT UPPPP”.

>>44595474
I was raised to a boy the first few years of my life then I was transitioned to being a girl until I finished high school
The reason why I was because I was really born a girl and I just didn't look like a girl because I had a big clitoris

>>44595474
I never had a penis.

>>44593475
there's no cognitive dissonance in this post and no effort was put into the image either.

>>44595834
“IT’S NOT A VAGINA IT’S A PENIS MY OPINIONS ARE REALITY I AM A REAL BOYYYY”

>>44595894
It's got a penis in fact I never really had a penis. The surgery just opened me up so I can have sex with men properly.. I've been a girl all my life, but not able for having sex.

>>44593475
I look like this and I say this.

>>44595894
Mine definitely is a vagina and never had a penis

Lol

>>44594441
Maybe because you are a delusional male and pathological liar who don't wanna accept reality?

>>44593475
Thorg don't care at all

>>44593475
How is this supposed to be a neckbeard opinion when everyone holds it outside a fringe minority

>>44594302
Lol the vagina u get from srs looks nothing like the real one it actually looks disgusting if i’m being honest

>>44603454
>fringe minority
They call you this too. Trannies truly believe it is their duty to educate the masses, and that the masses are on their side.

>>44594435
People who feel the need to refer to the penis' "root" and use quotes around "clit" clearly don't know anything about human biology. The clit is literally a small penis. It can grow when aroused and it a sensitive spot in sex. In the womb, one or the other will develop based mainly on hormone levels. There are boys who start off with clits until they're 12 years old, THEN develop testes and penises properly. Stay in your depth, AKA the kiddie pool, so the adults can talk about sex and gender.

Point to me where the third gamete is

You can’t?

Then there are only two sexes, two genders, etc, and everything after that is purely superficially constructed, an error even

>>44604055
I can point to variations that point to different sex characteristics from just male or female parts.
https://genetic.org/variations/
Allosomes are only one out of 23 pairs of chromosomes. Some individuals actually have 47 chromosomes, or double Y chromosomes. Generally we all have X chromosomes and have the ability to develop female traits based on hormones or natal development. These ambiguities and exceptions ought to be enough to allow a little leeway for concepts of gender fluidity.

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>>44604154
>muh chromosomes
Lol. Lmao even.

Richard Dawkins has spoken:

— “This ridiculous article (shame on the once-great Scientific American) ignorantly misunderstands the nature of the sex binary. … Sex is not defined by chromosomes, nor by anatomy, nor by psychology or sociology, nor by personal inclination, nor by “assignment at birth”, but by gamete size. It happens to be embryologically DETERMINED by chromosomes in mammals. … But it is universally DEFINED by the binary distinction between sperms and eggs. You may argue about “gender” if you wish (biologists have better things to do) but sex is a true binary, one of rather few in biology.”

Article in question: https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

>>44604401
he's probably right honestly. the only important thing to really establish is that dysphoria is real and that transitioning is the only real solution. everything else is stupid to try to establish

>>44593475
Maybe for you loser. I’ve had way more sexes than that. Just ask your mom.

>>44593475
why are neckbeards so often right about everything?
>race realism
>anti-feminism, redpill stuff
>libertarian love for freedom
>anti-wokeness
>opposition to the current thing
beta male redditors, professional "experts," academics and roasties can only wish they had the wisdom of these guys.

>>44604427
That people need an authority figure like Dawkins to explain something so simple is just shameful though. That people need to even resort to authority at all.

>>44604401
I mostly stick with people outside the atheist old guard. They made being atheist very confrontational as a concept in the eyes of Christian family members. I don't hate Dawkins, but his word isn't law to me. I'm more of a Forrest Valkai or Heliocentric or GMS kind of atheist.
Forrest's "Sex and Sensibility" addresses the distinctions of gender, chromosomal sex, gonadal sex, etc. and I would say I trust his assessment on this one.
In the end, the subject of biological sex doesn't factor into my belief on gender issues anyway, so you're not winning this old chud back, kek

>>44604465
>right about everything
>accomplish nothing.
>lose every single wars they fought.

>>44604427
Dysphoria is real but transitioning is not the only way to go about it.

1) Like all cutting edge sciences, just like magic, it comes with risks and prices and sacrifices to pay, including the risk of coming to regret the decision, recurring health issues, etc

2) Learning to embrace yourself for who you are is possible(*), especially if you’re of an existential mindset who toys with living different lives and experiences

(*some people are born with truly awful physical disabilities or undesirable traits that make them forever resentful)

>>44604482
its an appeal to authority for sure but people appeal to authority as basically a more "rational" appeal to emotions, and in a topic as emotionally intense as this (especially on this board) i can kind of shrug it off (especially since even if it doesn't "convince" the other side it can convince lurkers). plus the more shameful thing imo is again people getting distracted from the actual reason why transgender rights are important, dysphoria

>>44604526
transitioning definitely isn't the only way if you define transitioning super broadly as both social and medical transitioning, but if you split it up (and even split up those two categories, like some people not getting srs because they dont have bottom dysphoria), it gets more nuanced but also more like truthful. learning to "embrace yourself" usually means repping in some fashion, but full on 100% repping is very risky too. that's why shit like manmoding and hrtrepping exists, since, and this is kinda cringy, it's like a spectrum. thats what i think abt the topic with the info i have

>>44604568
>usually means repping in some fashion
This implies you’re repressing the solution. I don’t like the term repressing. Transitioning is also repressing who you were born as. Why not just admit you can live a happy life as either?

>>44604622
maybe if you are unfamiliar to the term and how it is used. it just means repressing your dysphoric desires. and the "repressing who you were born as" doesn't make sense either since you are still "biologically" your assigned gender at birth, but again that isn't too big of a deal. because, like, a young boy who has no idea about genitals or reproductive systems or whatever, so most boys, can still be attracted to the opposite gender without knowing what actually makes them the opposite gender. that's because the real thing that "makes" a woman or a man, imo, is just their like body shape so to speak, hence the whole concept of passing. sure, nobody can pass intense scrutiny, but you dont need intense scrutiny. in some cases maybe (like with a partner) which is why its important to advocate for stuff like this (so people don't react aggressively if they find out you are trans and disvalue the whole relationship because of it, this doesn't mean the man [assuming cis m x trans w here] has to tolerate everything, the woman also has to come forth and be more open about her identity). and yeah, you can live a happy life, but if you have a permanent mood debuff from dysphoria it is harder, which is why alleviating that debuff is good

>>44594865
thanks for the ropefuel

>>44604678
I see transitioning as a bit of a cultish conversion when someone says “oh you are clearly a repper” to someone who says they could see themselves leading a happy life as a woman, and would even desire it if the option was available (but also maybe not, “it depends on what I’ve already done with my life”) but aren’t deluded enough to think that science is there yet. Science cannot perfectly swap a person’s sex. It might never be able to.

So yeah I see transitioning as a converse form of repressing what nature intended of you.

>>44604819
this is probably more so just discomfort at like, too much trans inclusivity so to speak and honestly it's super warranted. it's why im personally iffy on diy hrt and "informed consent", people should confirm with an actual specialist that they have dysphoria first (even if it means letting T or E ravage their body for a bit more, but then again easier access to specialists and better societal acceptence with seeing them would help) before they go on treatments. You are 100% right on that imo, I agree with you

>>44604510
Every single war in history was won by racist, sexist and homophobic people (that includes the commies)

>>44604851
just to butt into you two's discussion a bit: I DIY personally. I put it off for years, but I was having trouble holding down a job that offered any kind of insurance and never had a GP, let alone a sexologist or therapist. But, after deliberating on the question free of any external influence, and weighing every other option extensively, I decided to spend the <$300 on perephenelia, estradiol and bica. Life's been infinitely better since. It's more about understanding yourself and sitting with your questions about your dysphoria, than merely a medical consensus.

>>44595474
Are women who are women and they cannot get pregnant or they have some kind of disorder with their reproductive organs. If they've women then I'm a woman because I have the same description

>>44603482
I can't speak for everyone else but mine looks exactly the same as any genetic woman and that's from a woman gynecologist

>>44594379
>it's like a woman who had a hysterectomy
Hysterectomy doesn't remove everything.
Doctors didn't want to be rude, or have a complaint against them for transphobia.

>>44604025
>The clit is literally a small penis.
No it's not.
Penises shoot sperm.
Clits don't do such thing.

>>44606397
You are so full of shit you're just arguing for the point for trying to say that every transgender person is really a male it's all you're trying to do

>>44606436
I'm not the person who claimed all trans are really male.
It's true that a hysterectomy doesn't remove everything.

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It's true. There's only me and all of you.

>>44606449
Regardless the fact is I'm a female

>>44606482
You mean a trans woman.
Female has a specific definition.
Sex and gender are different things.
Or are we back to saying that sex and gender are the same thing?

>>44606502
I mean what I say, I am a female

Shut up nerrrrrd

>>44604510
but enough about china

>>44593475
the two genders are: ugly and hot

>>44606541
Sex and gender are back to being the same thing.
Cool.

>>44604526
>transitioning is not the only way to go about it
>t. not dysphoric

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>>44594922
You just might. Even if you don't, it's bad luck. That's why we don't like it when you do that.

>>44604526
>risk of coming to regret the decision, recurring health issues, etc
like there's any sincerity in your handwringing about our health. lmao. you don't know a single thing about the topic.
>>44604622
>if you transition you're actually repressing the idea other people have in their head about who you were meant to be >o< you can be happy either way!!!!!
but like. no

>>44594865
>human chimerism doesn't exist

>>44593475
>posts the most spiritually AGP male of all time
alri then

>>44609824
don't slander agps like that

>>44609952
The vast majority of AGPs are nerdy incel white men that love anime and Spiderman and dreamt of marrying a drawing. OP is a fuckboy

>>44609965
the vast majority of agps are cis women

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>>44593475
Couldn't, should'a, would'a

>>44609998
Who can't have AGP because they're not men.

>>44610594
most retarded statement I've seen today and that's saying something