What is gender exactly?I know and can understand the definition of gender as it has to do with linguistics, which is to say it's a property of nouns and adjectives and so on, but there is a secondary (maybe primary?) definition and I can't quite grasp it. Below are some examples>A polite way to refer to sexThis one makes the most sense to me. In this way, the genders would exclusively be male and female. You can make sure that the term is used to refer to this when reading biology books and noting that scientists refer to the gender of fish, for instance. Certainly fish do not have any societal norms by which to separate sexes.>The genus of the terms "masculine" and "feminine"This is again tied to linguistics, and I guess it conveys some sort of information related to culture and society as well. I think the problem with this definition as it pertains to feminists or otherwise trans-inclusive minded people is that there are feminine men and masculine women who identify as men and women respectively (which is to say cis). In other words, you can have masculine men and feminine men and they all belong to the same gender.>A descriptor for maturity, species and sexPeople often define "woman" as "adult human female" and "man" as "adult human male", then attempt to assert only two genders. Of course, if this is the case, "juvenile human female" (girl) becomes another gender, as does "adult chicken male" (rooster) which leaves us with near-infinite genders.>A term for social sexThis I think is maybe the most worthwhile of the definitions, but it's circular and ultimately meaningless, when you consider that that the social norms associated with a gender are in fact based on sex, and that said norms vary so much across cultures that there is no actual social sex to speak of. Meaning, a woman in one culture is a man in another.Your thoughts?
>>44954990the observable characterstics of sex. a phenotype.sex is to genotype as gender is to phenotype.no, a penis is not a female sex characteristic do if you have one, thrn you're a man. if you want to be a lady, get srs. a post op pussy more closely resembles a natal vagina than a penis. hence you're observed as a woman when more of your sex characteristics fall in line with those of females
>>44954990the woman is a capitalist alien from the futurethe man is a low iq nigger
>>44955054gender really has no meaning its all about sexual attraction dichotomies
>>44955047>the observable characterstics of sex. a phenotype.I would say my observable characteristics of sex are not my gender and I'd rather call it "perceived sex" but I suppose I'm just being pedantic. I guess I'd also ask which are the traits which correspond to gender (and, by the way, again, they aren't gender itself).Still I guess the issue is that under that definition, most trans people would not be of the gender they identify with or wish to present as, since once observes their traits and associates them with those of the gender (sex?) assigned at birth.In other words, by your definition male trannies that don't pass are not women- and most don't.
>>44955067What do you mean by that?
>>44954990It's some made up bsThe meaning of it varies depending on which culture you're from. Yes you say a variety of cultures have different views but what is your culture? Where do you come from? In the US you can be a man or woman or nonbinary (though not everyone will agree on the latter, but a lot of people will). There were maybe roles that man and woman genders played in the old days but it's 2026, most people don't fully ascribe to those roles. It really is kind of like perceived sex mixed with personality. Concrete answers are hard to get but you just know it when you see it or when someone corrects you about the gender of a person/themselves.
>>44956202>The meaning of it varies depending on which culture you're fromYeah I don't want to be a fucking asshole about it bout you're wrong. What might differ in terms of definitions is gender norms, and not gender itself- they are the ones which differ.>Yes you say a variety of cultures have different views but what is your culture? Where do you come from? Uhh Romanian and Romania? Why does that matter>In the US you can be a man or woman or nonbinary Right well I struggle to see what that means. We are attempting to define gender and you've listed three possible ones, but we're no closer to finding out what it is that is exemplified in those three.>Concrete answers are hard to get but you just know it when you see itIf transphobes see al trans-women as men are the transwomen men?> or when someone corrects you about the gender of a person/themselves.Can someone not lie about it though?It seems silly for there to be a trait that someone has if and only if they proclaim themselves to have it, no other trait has those properties
>>44956442>What might differ in terms of definitions is gender norms, and not gender itselfThat's essentially what I mean, gender norms are what defines gender and norms vary by culture, you can be like a masculine woman in the states and be like normal or average in some other country I imagine. Some could even mistake you for a man or being trans just cuz of how you look/act.>Uhh Romanian and Romania? Why does that matterYou have to look within the scope of your immediate community if you say want to pass as another gender.. I'm a tranny so sorry that's kind of the framework that makes sense to me. Your internal sense of gender I believe is literally how you feel. There will always be bad actors but if you are genuine to yourself, then you are the gender you think you are... And that usually aligns with the sex you know yourself as or desire to be. It's kinda weird for me though cuz I am enby, but calling me a trans woman wouldn't be wrong either.>If transphobes see al trans-women as men are the transwomen men?Who cares what transphobes think? They're retarded>Can someone not lie about it though?In most applications, why the fuck would this matter? Especially if they really look the part, there's no reason to not just accept it.Anyway Idk gender relates to the two perceived sexes, it is aligned with typical traits of the sexes, including behavior, phenotype, personality etc.
>>44956554>gender norms are what defines gender and norms vary by culturethat's fallacious, though, and I don't say that to be difficult but it just conveys no information. "meat standards (norms) are what define meat", "glupab norms are what define glupab". you might have already known what meat is and are dissatisfied with the definition; you still don't know the definition of glupab>You have to look within the scope of your immediate community if you say want to pass as another genderBut if there's not a universal category of gender, then gender is meaningless, in the same way that "correct" becomes meaningless if a culture "disagrees" that 1 plus 1 is 2. I gather though you won't see a problem with this.>Your internal sense of gender I believe is literally how you feelBut what is it that I have an internal sense of?>Who cares what transphobes think? They're retarded>In most applications, why the fuck would this matter? I care insofar as I'm looking for an actual definition and don't want to go by vibesI can understand doing away with gender altogether in some sort of gender abolitionist endeavor, but until then there does seem to be a big focus on gender in society and I'd rather know what it is
>>44956754Gender is literally meaningless and vibes when you break it down, we are all human.
