I put so much fucking effort into transitioning. Makeup, hair styling, voice training, spending my entire life savings on ffs, taking hormones religiously for a year, and I am still a fucking man.Everyone on the street thinks I am a man, I will never be treated as anything as other than a man. But somehow sneeds have this delusional aura to them where they post shit like this and say "WOW LOOK AT HER STUNNING EYES YOU CAN TELL SHE CHANGED SO MUCH"I'ts so fucking bs. Why do I have to pretend that transitioning has made me happier when it makes me miserable every day, because I can never have the one thing in the world I would do anything to get?Why do we have to pretend HRT is some sort of magic thing when all it does is give you gyno. I can't keep fucking doing this.
>>45028004are you getting hondosed? Have you gotten a blood test? Unless your dose is suppressing T it does nothing.
>>45028012I am not the OP picture I just seen it and wanted to rope so I made this post. My bloods are fine and I think hers are too bc she has man titties.
>>45028039oh im sorry then
Nobody wants to hear it. People want to believe it's possible even if it's not true. If you are not naturally born androgynous you should just give up atp
>>45028074I am too far gone to give up even tho I know it is hopeless now. It's really weird, it's like a sunk cost fallacy, except I know that I can't go back to being a man now bc I would just rope quicker desu. I feel like I am living on borrowed time trying everything I can to make it only to keep failing
>>45028098I don't know how people cope with feeling like this. It's unbearable to me
>I went from a 6/10 man to a 6/10 woman how is this possibleYou don't need to be pretty to pass.
>>45028098Okay you need to think about your options. You could kill yourself, be miserable as trans or miserable as detrans. If you were to go back to being a man could you look like a normal male or are you past that point? I think you need to channel your inner chuddha and put all your energy into fixing your mental situation by any means necessary if the alternative is suicide. I don't know what you should or could do but that seems to be the problem and not the failing to trans issue
>>45028173In my eyes you either cope with being a sneedhon and deliberately indugling in delusion and only allowing people who will encourage your delusions. The other option is to fucking doompost your entire life until you give up.>>45028200I was an atrative man, but the features that made me "handsome" now betray me, square jaw, very sexually dimorphic, high muscle mass with no effort, deep voice, tall body.None of that will become equivalent in how attractive I would be dressing as a girl and actively makes me less attractive and passing. The equivalence of you going from a 6/10 to a 6/10 is not correlated and is just cope tbdesu
Its like chemo for cancer sometimes itll save you sometimes it wont. Sometimes the tumors are just too deep. You saying you'd rope faster off HRT tells me it still worked, it just only shrank your tumors a bit.
>>45028209picrel is me, post FFS with no makeup. I don't take a lot of these photos bc it makes me very dysphoric, but needles to say I think detransitioning would still be very easy for me. I also got like ZERO breast growth for a year so it would probably be like nothing fucking happened.>channel your inner chuddha and put all your energy into fixing your mental situationTbh it is not that fucked, I had a bad emotional reaction a while ago but I have gotten a lot calmer. I just don't know what to do in the future tho, It will be incredibly hard to get an FFS revision and I think in general the amount FFS can even do for you is vastly overstated in the trans community. I think I could pass as an older woman, but getting there is going to be fucking tough.>>45028242This is probably the most logical analogy I have read btw I 100% agree but dealing with it is very rough
>>45028419just get ba? i think you look alright mostlyso what if you need some makeup to feel better; most sys women do toodont give up so easily
>>45028481I know what I look like because I am the one who gets to experience firsthand how strangers treat me. It is always the same; in public, I am always a man no matter what I wear or do. Online tranners tell me I look good because our bar is incredibly low. I feel like, because I put in basic hygiene routines, I look more presentable than a lot of people, so people online think that must mean I pass, but I don't. BA would not fix this either, it is my shape, my height, the way my face has clearly been exposed to high amounts of testosterone that have made my skull massive.It is ok to say and observe all of that about me because it is true. It is this pathological attempt of "you look alright hun, just try this and you'll be fixed" it is always some random new thing that comes up in a never-ending cycle that costs thousands of dollars. I am tired of it, and it is so disingenuous
>>45028419Tbqh i tend to be against transitioning for most people so i am biased, but in this case i think passing would be rough. The worst case scenario is that you change enough to no longer be able to return but not enough to pass. I think you are now still in a good enough position to go back, and you have insight into the process, you could try what else might work. I don't want to pressure you into anything but i really do think that it would benefit you, even if going back would feel like "giving up". You have now more experience and data points about yourself and you could use those to pick a new path to bettering your mental health
>>45028755Idk about the ethics of that, like I KNOW I am a tranny now but should i just hide that, the chances of me going back and john 50ing are like 100% and at that point it is a risk that could involve children and a partner, which I personally think would be unethical to come out to them after knowing I was trans like 20 years ago. You could say don't have kids or a partner, but then its like ok I am not really fucking living as a man which is even less apealling than living as a tranny who can somewhat have an authentic experience even though it is an incredibly shit one and everyone treats me like ass.I have no options which are incredibly apealling anyway you slice it.
>>45028914I am biased again here, but what i personally would do in your situation is try to put all the work on not feeling the need to be a woman anymore. I know it sounds bad and in the modern day it is treated like telling someone to stop being gay, and honestly i don't even know how changeable the feeling is. But the lack of options here does force some kind of uncomfortable position no matter what so i think it comes down to weighing the pros and cons. You could continue trying to pass, discovering new methods and trying them out like you said. But i'm not sure how satisfying that would be in the long run, because unfortunately the end goal of passing seems hard to reach here. So to me at least here the best option would be to return to the drawing board, and figure out a new path forward. It could be mental work on reducing dysforia and self acceptance, it could be living as a more feminine or nonbinary version of yourself without the full transition or whatever. The main point here is just that i'm not sure how rewarding the current path is/is going to be. The "late life transition" thing stems from like you stated feeling like you are not what you want to be but repressing it, then realizing later in life that you are not living as you feel you should and then doing the radical change. So to me if you were to try to go back the most absolute most important thing would be to find a way to address the feeling itself.Sorry for the ramble and if this seems harsh to you i hope this doesn't come off as insulting or too simplistic
>>45029201>try to put all the work on not feeling the need to be a woman anymore.lmao conversion therapy and repressing has NEVER EVER worked
>>45029236Yeah I am OP and gonna have to second that, my first point of call when I was struggling with my gender in the first instance was trying everything I could to try and stop being a woman, I failed literally everything i tried so transitioned out of apathy and still don't really feel happy because I know I can't get the body I want to have. It is so fucked up
stop being so hard on yourself sheesh
>>45029236I really think it can be possible to alleviate the dysphoric feeling with mental work, be that with a therapist or yourself. Like i said i'm unsure about how unchanging the feeling is and if it can be ever totally removed, but i think it can be helped. It's a really fine line though between genuine change and repression, and you're right pushing it down does not work you need to address it directly. I wish we had more research put into this stuff it would be so beneficial to actually develop techniques for this purpose. You don't have to follow my advice, especially if you think it would be hurtful for you, i just think it's helpful to think about multiple different options
>>45029325>I really thinklol ok
>>45029288Okay i understand that. Maybe i'm too autistic for this and think every problem has an answer, it's just sad to me how many transitions end up not fixing what they should, and how little options there are currently
>>45029304This is also a pretty common response to when I talk about my feelings, people say I am just being harsh on myself when I try to communicate that there is something deeply physically wrong with me, and it causes a lot of emotional damage. I don't think I have been unfair in any of my assessments on how I look and get treated, and telling me to just "stop being hard on myself" when I am just telling you what I experience is about as useful as telling a cripple to just get up and walk
>>45029356Sorry if i came off as rude or dismissing i didn't mean to. I'm just tired of people feeling bad after decades of trying their best, i guess i wish there were new better solutions
>>45028004bro there's not hope for 100% of you because there is no technology or drug or surgery that can turn a man into a woman.the absolute best one can do do is fool strangers at a distance into assuming you're a woman, if you happen to have the appropriate genetics and start early, but even then you know it's not the same thing.
>>45028419you ffs surgeon didn't do shit wtf
true. i'm a stealth passoid and it's entirely due to luck. i wish every tranny could pass
>>45029427He did the best that could be done with my face. The browbone is significantly reduced, the jaw is less square and the nose is smaller. This is realistically all you can hope to achieve from FFS and getting it doesn't mean you are guaranteed to pass. Many people that haven't researched or experienced it that much have this conception of it being some kind of miracle because they see results of an already passing woman - who becomes more passing.I have something called expanded facial planes which basically means I could get 100 revisions and it would still not look good because my head is massive. I posted this picrel from the operating table so you can see he done a lot. Ultimately it is not enough for some people and there are 1000's of FFS hons like me who just seem to be keeping their mouth shut about this
>>45029495how can I know whether or not ffs will work for me
>>45029532"work" is a weird work. I think you need to think of it as a tool. It's not that it didn't "work" for me because it did exactly what it was supposed to do. There are also many components that make up an FFS so it depends also on what you are getting done. If you want an indication on whether or not it will make you pass, tbqh I think that like I said, you kind of need to already pass to get good results. I did get mine comparatively 'early' in my transition and there is lots of other shit I could have been working on.
>>45029427ffs surgeons never do shit. ffs is copium
>>45029589I don't pass at all and seriously look like a man 3 years on HRT. I also have never malefailed
>>45029495which surgeon
>>45029725I mean yeah, if that is the case, then I don't want to tell you what to do but I honestly couldn't recommend FFS unless your american and have good insurance. In my experience it is just a lot of money spent that could have been meaningfully invested or spent getting me things I desperately need now because I neglected basic needs saving for FFS thinking it would save me. >>45029734I dont really see why telling you would matter, it was a cheap surgeon but I do think he did a "good" job. I don't want to drag his name in the mud just because I am complaining about not passing here. I have seen shit results from the best surgeons on the world when they are working on people with strong masculine dimorphism. Literally any surgeon I could have went to would have had a simialair outcome.
>>45028559I’m so sorry nonaWhat’s your height?About your face, I don’t think ffs can help with your forehead, it’s too big and square on the top. But don’t trust pictures because they distort the edges, check it on the mirror instead to confirm if it’s as bad as I think. Luckily bangs can fix it, but first you have to get them right, and second the rest of your face has to be feminine enough to offset the masculine top of the forehead.Ffs didn’t do almost anything I guess, but you have a great nose. I don’t think your face is lost, but I think you do need another surgery and that one better be good, so don’t go cheap on it. I know, but I say this as a doomed mid 20s third worlder that only will be able to ever afford it in my late 30s at best. So I know it sucks but it’s either that or detransitioning, which is worse I think.For now try getting bangs, good enough ones. I really do see a woman if I hide your forehead in that photo. It’s clocky, but I would gender you female first on the streets.
>>45028419nasolabial folds are the worst. you also look like you need to finish hair removal? i have a similar thing where my upper lip kinda puffs out, and i think it's because of deep hairs that stiffen and swell the skin above.
>>45030341Btw I just saw the picture again and the reason for gendering you correctly (with hiding the forehead) is mostly because of presentation. Your face itself is hard to make a decision. But it with everything else points female.
>>45028004>help, I took HRT and I'm still blackLmao
>>45030341>What’s your height5'10 (sigh)I actually think my forehead is ok and this is a bad angle where you can see up to the corners of my hair, which definately indicate a male hairline, I didn't get hairline advancement in FFS because I am actually quite happy with my forehead length, I just want it to be more rounded and am going to get separate hair transplants to the corners one day. until then I hide it with a middle part which seems to be working well, here is my hair when I am looking forward and it is properly styled.>but I think you do need another surgeryI am considering it but tbqh my brow is mostly fixed, I am thinking about V-Line surgery but I want to wait for more swelling to go down bc its only been 2 months. I am also considering masceter botox? I think it could help reduce the muscle development in my jaw which is actually why I think it looks kinda saggy bc it is currently muscle that is sitting on less bone.Maybe a bleph? idk. I posted on an FFS discord asking what surgeries i need for a revision and they basically told me to go fuck myself.>>45030357My nasolabial folds are bad. I did get fat grafting done which has made the space less hollow but the skin is still indented, which means the indented skin has been pushed out a bit. I am trying to get tretinoin for this to help. I do 100% need to finish hair removal and still have a lot to go, unfortunately
>>45030484I really think you look good, and the nasolabial folds are natural for anyone older than 24 really. But finishing the hair removal will be the single biggest impact for you. You don't need any more procedures
>>45030499This is another thing that is weird for me, bc half the people in this thread are telling me I am ngmi and the other half are saying I look good. I have a really hard time telling the difference between who is being genuine also.Realistically, that means I am probably somewhere in between, the pic you responded to is me trying my ABSOLUTE hardest. I don't have the energy or money to look like that every day even though I know its possible so I spend most of my days walking about like the first pic and it fucking sucks.
>>45030484aw now i feel like with the second pic you rly aren't as doomed as it seemed, also 2 mo out is def still healing. i hope you can get to a place you are happy soon, you deserve better.
>>45030537>as doomed as it seemedI get this a lot too, you are not telling me I am not doomed, you are telling me it is not as doomed as it could be. Idk it is still shit and my face is still manly, but I feel like I always get given brownie points for putting effort in from people even though it isn't actually working
>>45030533The 1st picture is really unflattering because your skin looks torn up, your facial hair shadow is visible, and your bangs are framing your forehead making it look extremely square. the 2nd picture, you look pretty and the problems of the first picture arent visible at least to me. not to mention, the angle of the 1st picture is from below, distorting your face. i think you shouldnt feel like shit about how you look but also be realistic about what specific traits are the triggers for what might affect that. anybody saying you need more ffs hasnt seen enough women before
>>45030484Your height is good unless women are shorter on average where you are. Otherwise that height is pretty much the limit where it starts to become a big problem.>…they basically told me to go fuck myselfYou look almost like a man in the other photo, and pretty much not clocky on this one. Unless the camera is lying more than usual, it’s pretty stupid to consider detransitioning I think. If your default is close to the second photo, I’d say you are honlarping too.
>>45030584>anybody saying you need more ffs hasnt seen enough women beforeFuck I geuss that includes me lol.I feel like posting unflatering pictures is more acurate to how you would see me in my day to day life tho.
>>45030595>You look almost like a man> I’d say you are honlarpingPick one
>>45028004kek he's in the control group
>>45031782whats the control group
>>45031868they're giving him the placebo hrt
>>45028419How long have you been on HRT? I think improving your skin would go a long way btw. I’d def hit up a derm and try to land a script for Tretinoin.
>>45028004>one surgery
>>45029813did you not get type 3? i feel like you still have somewhat of a brow ridge, i had this issue before where i went to a shit surgeon and had to get it revised
>>45028004Idk nona, some of us were just born 2 sneed
>>45030484>>45032923>tretinoinand that fixes nasolabial folds?afaik no cream can fix that
>>45033395Genuinely who cares, it's a normal part of aging
>>45028004I'm sorry OP, they should come up with a cure to gender dysphoria for neverpassers already. Some of us will clearly never make it and transition only causes extra hardship.
>>45033644I would have taken that shit over being given the option to go live in a body identical to my current one but with XX chromosomes. Being treated as a woman is fucking shit and humiliating because no one fucking listens and they instantly assume you are stupid.I am probably faketrans for saying that, but I missed my entire early life as a boy so even if i somehow becaome a biological woman I would probably still feel dysphoria about not having the right childhood. Dysphoria in general is a cruel joke, no one told me it stays with you after transitioning - I thought it would get better but I just have to fucking hide it now.>>45033342Yeah your technically right, and i did get type three, I just had a very frontal sinus complex so even after reconstruction some pretrusion is visable. I don't really mind bc i would consider it well within a female range now tho, and it actually is less protruting than my own mum (picrel)>>45033395>>45032923I am in TERF island so i am prretty much used to not getting a fucking proscription for literally anything, I am pretty sure I would need to get it from some DIY chinease salesman.I am pretty sure because I had filler in my cheeks and nasolabial folds, if cologen builds on top and my skin gets tighter the resecion causing the folds to deepen will be less visable at least acording to my research. my mother also has incredibly big nasolabial folds. It is crazy how like all of this is genetics tbdesu. My mother is basically a fuicking man with a vagina which is why I am so fucked.
>>45028004I think this was going to be a webm where they post themselves after 5 years
Its over
>>45033988why do you dislike chud lines (nasolabial folds)? they're not a sexually dimorphic feature>I just had a very frontal sinus complex so even after reconstruction some pretrusion is visableall skilled ffs surgeons can do it regardless of sinus complexity, if you're in europe, you should have gone to FT. in the US mardi/keo/db/jumaily and a bunch of others can do it for any type of sinuses
>>45028419>>45030484I think you are pretty
>>45034660FT quoted me 47k euro lol.I have also seen them botch people and they are defo not worth that price tag.I know chud folds are not dimorphic but they still look shit
>>45034660Delusional.The results of OP are good in that aspect, you can't really expect anything more, and more importantly it wouldn't matter. That forehead is fine for a Caucasian women.OP seems realistic and you seem like someone clinging onto hope of magical FFS
>>45028419i find it surprising that this pic got so much flak, seems like just a bad pic of a decent result (hair, stray beard hairs, and skin are throwing it). am i autistic? is this board autistic?
>>45028004Holy kek troons are abominations
>>45028004>effortwhat made you think this meant anythingand im sorry youve arrived at this conclusions. it's basically correct, but it still sucks and i wish it wasn't so
>>45034689>t. hideous troon hugboxing groomerjig is up bub
>>45030484>hons give this a passing grade
>>45034689>>45035686OP says she gets gendered male so maybe stop gaslighting for a sec? It's a shitty blurry pic so she probably looks worse in person
>>45030484With pictures like this you really have to switch on your malebrained spatial cortex and rotate the blocky object in 3 dimensions to understand why this clearly doesn't pass
>>45035709The first pic is blurry but the second pic looks fine, all in all that is just my personal opinion no need to seethe
>>45035858wasn't seething just trying to help OP out
>>45030484eyebrows need to start closerdownturned eyesupper eyelid exposurenegative canthal tiltfat grafting or something above and below the eyes and alter the canthus heights to make them even and positively tilted
>>45036323troon traits says my eyes are already in a positive tilt?I think the lids are just kind of low, someone in korea when i was consulting recomended an otoplasty?My eyebrows do need to start closer and it annoys the shit out of me and Idk how to fix it apart from I just started getting tinted glue and drawing it in a bit.I did get fat grafting to the lower lid. I am scared getting some filler or something in my upper eye would take away eye space. would a bleph work?
>>45036525Your brow ridge is still unfortunate, you need to look overtly female to pass as a 5'10 woman
>>45035706Also, this is something I get a lot of, because I am like, somewhat conventionally attractive. People who think I am hot tend to tell me I pass because they confuse attractiveness and the amount you pass. They are not equivalent.
>>45036547I am starting to consider putting some filler above the ridge to make it a bit rounder but idk if it is retarded.you can see in >>45029495 that my forehead is now very flat, and if i fill in like this little recescion that I can feel above my brow I think it would apear rounder? I just lowkey can't afford a revision rn and I am looking into filler and botox to get like a liquid FFS or some shit instead.
>>45036583Can I ask why the surgeon didn't lower or round your hairline at all
>>45036525can u take a nonblurry photo?
>>45036594bc i didn't pay for it and wanted a coronal inscision so you couldn't see a scar. They offered a hair transplant but I read that hairs don't set in well after the trauma the forehead receves during surgery.>>45036601The point wasn't my face it was the fucking number dummy. Also my hand shakes when I look at my own face because I am a chud who hates how I look
>>45036613A scar is better than w.e u got going on up there big dawg
>>45036629whatever dude, I will fix it when I get more money. I refuse to get tranny bangs they are so fkn ugly
>>45036647Most surgeons won't do a hairline incision revision after a coronal one
>>45036678I dont want a hairline incision they look ass
>>45036687They heal fine when done well and taken care of
>>45036723I'm probably just gonna go to turkey and get the fucking norwood special. it's a lot cheaper that way and it was compared to the price they gave me at the time too.
>>45036525dont use ai slop apps you should consult with other looksmaxxersthis photo is extremely blurry and it doesnt look like it is mapped onto your eyes properlyin the original photo it is neutral / negative it is like -2it may vary between photos and camera angle by 1 or 2 degrees based on how accurate your measurement is but ideal would be like 6-8to fix the eyebrows you can try derma stamping and minoxidil and hair growing peptides otoplasty is for flared ears which I can't comment on because your photos do not show your ears> it would take away eye spaceidk what you meanif you want accurate feedback you should take a photo from at least arms length away with the camera at nose height and eyes looking into the camerahaving your hair covering the sides of your face makes it impossible to measure your ratios accurately
>>45036525App?
>>45036908this i want to sloprot today
>>45037050>>45036908I literally said it. troontraits
>>45028004the hair and the 5 o'clock shadow are bud but otherwise she just looks like a fat black woman (not racist)
>>45036849this is what positive ct looks like
>>45037086Come on, women don't have skulls that long
I’m in a similar boat…I had FFS with a highly regarded surgeon. He told me at my one-year follow-up that the changes were some of the most drastic he’s seen and I don’t doubt it. Despite this I still don’t pass as cis. Having a smaller head/face is pretty crucial to passing as cis…otherwise you’ll probably end up in a “clocky but cute” space at best.
>>45037107Leslie jones
>>45037138Who was your surgeon
>>45037069I see
>>45028419idk why they're clowning you here. you facepass really well in this photo. maybe slightly masc in the shoulders but ive seen women that look exactly like you in my city.
>>45029532FFS always works. look at the before and after and consider which you'd like to live in every day. also this nona is brainwormed and passes
>>45034660i mean have you considered ffs worked and now you're just interested in normal plastic surgery? get a facelift if you dont like the chudfolds lol
>>45028004I’ll just murk myself at that point…..
>>45037086i wouldn't guess he's trans... as in i wouldn't have guessed he was trying to look like a woman
Said before, saying it again "Puberty is the rate limiting step. It's the point of no return." If you had a weak puberty, sure. But if you had an early or even standard puberty, game over. It's like believing you can turn a blastoise back into a squirtle. Complete pipe dream.
>>45028098Same. Feel like the only reason I'm still "using" hrt is because I know if I stop, the male features will come back and I'll slowly consider kms. I've gone off and one for years so I already know how it is. Its scary. I dont know what my future is but hrt at least seems to buy me time, like you said. It's a weird medium to be in.
