>be me>voicehon, tried to fix before but never got too far>lunch with some close friends, also a few people I don't know too well>"anon, can I ask your gender?">ohshitfuck.png>"why, female ofcourse">"oh your voice is kind of deep, everything about your appearance is good but your voice is deep">some other person I don't know agrees with him>mfw i wasted so much potential by not voicetrainingwell you know what they say anons, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago
>>45097250You don't owe them a feminine voice. Did they know you're trans? I go back and forth on this. I don't really care about my voice in isolation, but I feel like it might bother me, like it did you, if people give me shit for having a recognizably male voice while girlmoding. I also don't really want people who knew me prior to my transition to hear me putting on a voice. Voice training somehow feels much less authentic than other aspects of transition. Kinda feels humiliating.
>>45097306No they didn't, but like, they're not giving me shit for having a deeper voice, its more like just curious. I was eating lunch with other Chinese people so they weren't familiar with transgender as a concept I guess.And yeah I agree with voice training feeling humiliating, but I guess I have to give it a shot if I want to pass better.
>>45097250yeah i had vfs 2 months ago and i'm still recovering and my vocal weight and resonance sucks and two sentences into a conversation, a guy asked me if i was lgbt ...
>>45097388Happens to the best of us, how do you feel about your surgery results though?
>>45097400i only started speaking again like 10 days ago and i'm working through the post-op voice training stuff but i'm not sure if it's supposed to fix resonance. my pitch is distinctly feminine, even without trying, i speak at like 200hz+ (and it's supposed to get better as you recover more), and i think it passes to like 20-30% of people despite resonance, maybe sounds andro to like 20% more people with the remainder clocking it as a male voice due to a combination of weight and resonance. i look like a chopped woman irl which leads people to conclude i'm a tranny from my voice but i suppose troon voice is still better than man voice>>45097306>You don't owe them a feminine voicewe have a duty to do our best to assimilate!!!
>>45097306>You don't owe them a feminine voice.sour grapes opinion
>>45097250sure would be nice to not be too spiritually male to make female sounds and speech patterns
>>45097438No we don't. Fuck assimilation.
>>45097306>You don't owe them a feminine voiceya but i probably owe myself one, i'm gonna stop coping and get going
>>45097506when you're so brainwashed by twitter radicals that you deny yourself passing for political clout, epic style
>>45097585nonconformists act the way they do purely out of cope for either being a neverpasser or being too lazy to put the work in to pass and as a result they are bitter shits. nonas, voice training is like 50% of the battle towards passing and its generally a good idea for EVERY trans girl to do it and stay consistent. VOICE TRAIN. it's not fucking impossible you just need to try.
>>45097585Nah nona, our society is deeply, deeply ill. I am transitioning to be my most authentic self, not to create another mask for myself. Unfortunately, for safety reasons, I may end up voice training. That doesn't mean that I necessarily want to. My voice doesn't bother me. I don't used Twitter btw. I'm in my 30s and haven't had my brain rotted in the same way as you kids.
>>45097598yep
>>45097598trvke. the moment passing ceases to be the ultimate goal of transition is the moment the act of transition loses all meaning. gender transition means nothing of you're a retard who thinks gender is meaningless.
>>45097609my voice doesn't bother me too much but i stilk know that i need to manmode until i find the energy to voice train if i don't want to reincarnate as a covid bat
>>45097306SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP SHUT THE FUCK UP you owe yourself a feminine voice. voice training is the bare minimum and the first thing you should take care of. i would put it as mandatory to get hrt. even diy places should make you vocaroo or something. would separate out the trenders too
>>45097631That's not a good mindset to have. Just because we live under an oppressive patriarchal system doesn't mean you have to conform to it. Not voice training doesn't make you any less of a woman. Present in a way that makes you comfortable. For example, I am still boymoding because visually, I am not yet where I want to be. However, there are some trans women who feel comfortable girlmoding much earlier in their transition. This is a problem only because we live under a patriarchal system that attempt to dictate what it means to be a woman. Yet, there are an infinite number of ways our society could be structured--there have been many different examples throughout human history. There is no objective reason to feel compelled to comply with standards you do not hold yourself. >>45097655Gate keeping is dumb. There is no one way to be trans. You kids lack perspective. Once you get a little older, give your brains a little more time to develop, you'll stop feeling so much pressure to conform to a society that hates you.
>>45097700Making this an age thing just makes you sound like a legit hon. I'm around your age and my voice has made me miserable from the very second it started to masculinize. No joke, I was in the children's choir and dropped that and singing altogether because I could no longer sound right, and endeavored to minimize talking as much as possible just so I didn't have to hear it.
>>45097700>Just because we live under an oppressive patriarchal system doesn't mean you have to conform to itjust like i can go out and burn down a house but i'm not retardedyou're a stereotypical late transitioner manmoder, maybe just shut the fuck up instead of complaining about the patriarchy while acting like a patriarch claiming authority for being 30+?
>>45097714>Making this an age thing just makes you sound like a legit hon.Ehhh, I still boymode and am still pretty early in my transition, but I look like this: https://postimg.cc/3ymHM7kSWe have troons on this board larping as Nazis. These kids are in some serious need of guidance. >I'm around your age and my voice has made me miserable from the very second it started to masculinize.That's absolutely valid. I've personally never been bothered by my voice, though I can see myself having issues if it causes other people to act weirdly around me.
>>45097700you cant be a "boy"moder and talk about "the kids".>Not voice training doesn't make you any less of a woman.this is just untrue. if gender is a social construct, then it is socially assigned by how people perceive you. if having a male voice makes people perceive you as male subconsciously or treat you as one socially, it makes you less of a woman.
>>45097700>Not voice training doesn't make you any less of a womanyes it does, despite visually passing and having had vfs and ffs, i consider myself inferior to trans women who have been successful with voice training and i admire them. until i voicepass, i'll just continue to mutemode in public to the detriment of myself and my social life because i have an obligation to not be an opticsnuke>You kids lack perspectivei'm 32 and i've been on hrt for 16 years, maybe you're older than i am but i'm certainly not a "kid">>45097655>you owe yourself a feminine voiceyeah>even diy places should make you vocaroo or somethingno that's a retarded take, how else would people hrtrep. it should be acknowledge that people's effort and ability to voice train can vary, but it should still be encouraged
>>45097763>yes it does, despite visually passing and having had vfs and ffs, i consider myself inferior to trans women who have been successful with voice training and i admire them.This isn't a healthy mindset to have and you know it. It's internalized transphobia. It's not like I don't get it. I boy/manmode because I'm not yet comfortable enough with how I look to do otherwise. But acting as if others who are comfortable with themselves are somehow invalid is a crock of shit that we as individuals have no right to enforce. I've been on 4chan on and off since 2012. It's always been strange to me how much the people here feel such a strong need to conform to the society that's rejected them. I feel like this has somehow gotten worse in the last few years.
>>45097438did you voicetrain before vfs?
>>45097784>This isn't a healthy mindset to have and you know it. It's internalized transphobia.you know full well that this board is transphobic yet you choose to participate. most trans women here would probably be terfs if they weren't themselves trans>others who are comfortable with themselves are somehow invalid is a crock of shit that we as individuals have no right to enforceright, but as you well know, the general consensus on this board and of the adjacent communities is that dysphoria is a necessary requirement to be considered trans (in the transsexual sense). i find it hard to reconcile that someone can experience no dysphoria about their voice while sounding like a man. the whole thing with "transgender liberation" has already been attempted and has led to enormous backlash, and we should concede that it's really not a hill worthy for us to die on and the attempts at policing fellow trans people is often down to self-preservation>>45097785on and off but i've not been successful. again i don't deny that this is a great moral failure of mine and i deserve to suffer and be ridiculed for it and the punishment of near complete isolation and having no social life at 32 is probably not sufficient for such a great moral failing. if i get hatecrimed and killed after being clocked from my voice i would have probably deserved it
>>45097835>on and offi getchu, im gonna be real tho you just have to embarrass yourself for 3 months and you're good for the rest of your life. since you're recovering from vfs, now is a great time to train your resonance since you can "blame" it on the surgery instead of people thinking its a training thing.just sit in front of your phone and try to get a feel for controlling resonance (outside of anything else). then try to mix it in with talking.you should also immediately start fagmoding. you just gotta start using feminine inflections, phrasing, speed etc. just try to spend most of your time speaking and listening to women and gay men talk.you already got VFS so you dont need to train pitch.just ime even fagmoding with a nonpassing voice i was treated much more like a woman than with a manvoice and literally anyone can do it
>>45097835>you know full well that this board is transphobic yet you choose to participate.I'm permanently banned from Reddit for calling a Palestinian man a hero :PNevertheless, there is still something quite alluring about this website. It's not all bad, and the opinions here are not nearly as monolithic as you make it seem. >the general consensus on this board and of the adjacent communities is that dysphoria is a necessary requirement to be considered trans (in the transsexual sense).And transmedicalists need to be pushed back against. Just because something is the "consensus" on an imageboard filled with insecure, brainrotted 20-somethings doesn't make it right. I'm not even convinced it's necessarily the consensus. I don't think 4chan has change that much. A lot of these kids are just being edgey for the sake of being edgey. Picrel is a gif I made and posted back during the 2016 election, for example. I was not actually pro-Trump, though I did abstain from voting out of general dislike of Hilary.>the whole thing with "transgender liberation" has already been attempted and has led to enormous backlashDon't give in to that garbage. The current backlash against our community is the result of an orchestrated attack by our ruling class to create a scapegoat to distract the populace so that they can maintain power. Scapegoats are always found in times of decline. Literal billionaires (Musk and Rowling aren't alone) are funding this charade. If outlets like Fox News, the New York Post, and Newsmax, etc., along with social media algorithms that amplify outrage and Republican politicians who exploit it for political gain, stopped manufacturing and perpetuating trans panic, none of this would be happening.
>>45097893>transmedicalists need to be pushed back againstwhat's wrong with transmedicalism? as long as it's the pro-diy variety of transmedicalism, i actually think it's based. i am like this because i suffer from a horrible medical condition and not because i'm trying to rebel against the society and its gender norms>filled with insecure, brainrotted 20-somethings doesn't make it rightyou may be confusing the board with its "trendy" reddit offshoots, i think a lot of people here are 30+>Don't give in to that garbageright but even if you work off the assumption that the rightoid attacks are coordinated by the establishment (which i do agree with), there are also parallel attacks from people who are generally associated with the left and/or liberal political leanings with bioessentialism and woke transphobia being on the rise. are you really happy to accept being forced into a third gender role? because if you are, then you aren't really like me at all, although i have no personal grudge against you for being okay with it. but if you're an actual transsexual i do think you should reconsider your positions and whether you may be inadvertently allowing cissoids to forever classify you as a weird third gender thing >none of this would be happeningwithout the rightoids, people like bioessentialist theyfabs such would still push for our exclusion though maybe they'd end up losing momentum in the end
>>45097893retarded overconfident takes like this will be our downfall. >transmedicalists need to be pushed back againstand look how that turned out
>>45097956>i am like this because i suffer from a horrible medical condition and not because i'm trying to rebel against the society and its gender normsThis is what's wrong. This is an assumption. For example I don't experience voice dysphoria. I didn't start transitioning until recently, in my early 30s. Too many of this board, that makes me "faketrans." However, I've known I was trans since I was a young child, but grew up at a time and place where transition was naught but a fantasy. I also figured I could just deal with the dysphoria and longing I felt by distracting myself with other things. I had no expectation that it would get much worse as I aged. Allowing transmedicalism to take hold will keep many who need the care from being able to receive it because of incorrect and exclusionary assumptions.Transmedcalists are just transphobic troons who allow their internalized hatred to trick them into supporting ending care for those in our community they view as below them. It's a shortsighted ideology and it make getting HRT harder and attaining acceptance in society harder for us all. >i think a lot of people here are 30+Nah, I did a poll a month or so ago. See picrel.>there are also parallel attacks from people who are generally associated with the left and/or liberal political leanings with bioessentialism and woke transphobia being on the rise.This is the result of allowing the right to get away with their attack against us. It is the story of our political system. The far-right has slowly pushed the Overton window further and further to the right, taking the "left" with them. When I say left, I mean the liberal establishment. The actually left (socialists, anarchists, communists) are all broadly supportive of trans rights. >people like bioessentialist theyfabs such would still push for our exclusionI do not think they have they, themselves have the numbers or power to do much. They're riding the coattails of the current movement.
>>45097959>>45097959>and look how that turned outSee >The current backlash against our community is the result of an orchestrated attack by our ruling class to create a scapegoat to distract the populace so that they can maintain power.
>>45098014>will keep many who need the care from being able to receive it because of incorrect and exclusionary assumptionswell, good thing diy is a thing. or are you talking about some other type of care? i think the community is irreversibly fractured and "transfems" probably aren't going to find much camaraderie and solace with genuine transsexual women nor should they expect to and nor should they attempt to derive legitimacy from our plights>supporting ending care for those in our community they view as below themyou mean like medical care? if someone seeks medical care they're probably a transsexual>I had no expectation that it would get much worse as I agedwere you perhaps unfamiliar with the cautionary tales of john50 and other reppers. this is why hrtrepping is often encouraged here, in the modern day and age with so much information being available, i sometimes doubt the motives of people who are able to (non-hrt) rep for that long but maybe that's just me being a jaded and bitter troon
>>45098020>For example I don't experience voice dysphoria.you're a manmoder though. you're still early in transition and dont understand that dysphoria is fundamentally incurable and WILL just shift around over time. once you look more feminine and start introducing yourself as a woman, you'll be way more self-conscious of your voice. i got FFS recently and that helped my overall dysphoria a lot but made my bottom dysphoria noticably worse.also based educated tranners in your poll response.>orchestrated attack by our ruling class to create a scapegoat ok and? they exploited a growing frustration.>supporting ending care for those in our community they view as below themi think its time we accept that there is no single path to someone shooting up estrogen and wearing womens clothes outside. some people do it bc of gender dysphoria and some do it to be sissy freaks. the first are safe around other women, and the latter are not.
>>45098046>made my bottom dysphoria noticably worsethat has also been my experience, i seem to visually pass pretty consistently now and it made my bottom dysphoria and my voice dysphoria so much worse and actually motivated me to finally sort out my name/sex marker change and stuff
>>45098045>well, good thing diy is a thingPeople shouldn't have to rely on black market suppliers to receive their medical care.>i think the community is irreversibly fracturedThis is a very terminally online thing to say. Outside /tttt/ or Twitter, I don't think you'll find nearly so much division. >were you perhaps unfamiliar with the cautionary tales of john50 and other reppers.I only occasionally browsed trans spaces--I went through periods of thinking about it a lot and not thinking about it at all for awhile. Always had bad gender envy though. Spent most of my 4chan time on /m/, /a/, /tv/, and /lit/. Did eventually start browsing /tttt/ but got icked out after reading about having to dilate with SRS.>you'll be way more self-conscious of your voice.Possible, likely probable. However, I still see a distinction. Unlike the dysphoria I feel/felt from my body or even from just being T-dominant (I feel so much less irritable now, it's crazy), feeling the need to change my voice will be more about conforming out of society's expectations instead of some yet understood inner need. >ok and? they exploited a growing frustration.They exploited people's ignorance of us. Ignorance often leads to fear. > some people do it bc of gender dysphoria and some do it to be sissy freaks. the first are safe around other women, and the latter are not.You're allowing the far-right to hugely inflate this issue in your mind. Do not forget that we are a very small minority. The embarrassing among us are made to look like a much bigger issue than they actually are. If you really wanna solve all the optic-nukes, support early access to HRT for trans kids. We know repping does to us. It's not good.
>>45097700I'm 38 you fucking retard and no one died and made you queen. idgaf if the world hates me. i wanna be a normal person instead of whatever gender fuckery you people are pushing. no thanks.waking up one day, declaring yourself a woman, and expecting the world to accept you as one without the bare minimum effort on your part is just mansplaining what being a woman is. developing a feminine voice puts real women at ease around you and does a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of passing.gatekeeping was always a good thing. honestly bring back rle. if you want it you'll work for it>>45097763i said what I said. you can hrtrep after you git gud with your voice or you can learn to compound yourself. better get started instead of complaining it's too hard. not everyone can learn to type 70 words per minute but everyone can learn to type 30 words per minute
>>45097306>You don't owe them a feminine voice.And you are not owed them perceiving you as a woman. I've bee saying this for years, voice is once of the single most important factors in making them actually see you as a woman in their subconscious rather than them simply being polite. This is how you get those stories of people forgetting some woman is trans after already knowing it. They know what you told them but their brain is screaming GIRL GIRL GIRL GIRL whenever you open your mouth.I know it's humiliating to learn but I swear to god this shit can be life-changing.
>>45098449you just cant help validmaxxing manmoders. they have to learn on their own.
>>45097714I've been practicing singing in private for decades because I love singing and vocalist nerd stuff but I hate my own voice too much to show anyone. Had some dreams of maybe a career in it. I'm actually pretty good at this point but it all kinda went nowhere after my voice dropped. Just kinda felt like, what's the point?If I had the vocal chords of the average cis woman I feel like I would never stop singing lol
>>45098100>You're allowing the far-right to hugely inflate this issue in your mind.most "trans" people i have met both online and irl are embarrassments. are right-wing parties highlighting these freakshows to win votes from their conservative base? of course. but lots of young people have direct, bad, experience with trans people irl. you're in your 30s though so maybe you didnt have classmates pooning out in HS and college before regretting it.honestly the way you lecture and talk like some kinds of elder while obviously being a babytranner is literally just mansplaining you would do well to unlearn
>>45097729>maybe just shut the fuck up instead of complaining about the patriarchy while acting like a patriarch claiming authority for being 30+?*vigorous snapping*
>>45097306OK anon, try this on for size: people like you are actually the main reason I put off transitioning as long as I did. Because you kept talking about how it doesn't mean you're invalid if your voice doesn't pass or your face or body and even if you're a basso profundo deadlifter built like a Prometheus alien. You were essentially coping on every single measure of what might make some perceive you as a woman, and it started to give me the impression that HRT must not even work that well if troons are coping THIS hard about it.Once someone finally brok the news to me that with hard work, determination, and luck, it actually IS possible for me to pass as a cis woman with a cis voice, transition was immediately back o the table. Funny how that worked...How's that make you feel? All of the patronizing yet fundamentally daft prose you've churned out on this board over the years to "save" people and you just ended up making it worse for me (and probably many other anons). You don't have the answers, you're not a good person. Fuck you.
>>45098619>I put off transitioning as long as I diddid you at least hrtrep instead of full on repping?>HRT must not even work that wellit almost never does unless you're a luckshit, i wouldn't pass without ffs but it does stop things from getting worse
>>45098632>did you at least hrtrep instead of full on repping?no because they made it sound like it basically does nothing (kind of like you just did). I had no use for a placebo.
not being able to voicetrain is such a personal skill issue icl
>>45098640why would you allow your body to masculinize further though, that's crazy. there's a reason for why hrtrepping is heavily encouraged over regular repping, you will age as a man unless you hrtrep
