disregarding all social considerations, would you choose to have the body of a man or the body of a woman

Something I think helps is to imagine yourself living on an island totally cut off from civilization and other people. If you were in this situation, living alone and only for yourself, who would you want to be?

stop overthinking. if you want hrt and to change your body to the opposite sex, youre trans.

>>45176552
WILL YOU JOIN MY SKELETON ARMY?

>groomer paradise itt

>>45176552
Gender is intensely personal, and no one besides yourself can tell you whether or not you are trans. Any worthwhile therapist would tell you the same thing. And there is a very real possibility that you may never truly know.
Sorry if that's not a satisfying answer, but it's an answer you need to hear.

>how do I know that I wasn't just groomed
>I dont trust myself that much
>im just someone who gets easily influenced so idk if i should be allowed to decide for myself
This isn't even a gender identity thing but you owe it to yourself to have integrity and self respect. Have some conviction instead of rolling over. A mindset like this will lead you to ruin. You sound lost.

>i really wish i had a therapist to talk about all of these things with
Honestly, seeking a therapist would not be a bad idea if you are able, regardless of the trans stuff. Practice discretion, your life depends on it

>>45176552
trannies are not honest about this and the word "trans" is not very useful.

do you want to be seen as the opposite sex, or as close to it as you can get? have you done your homework on the medical risks and are absolutely sure it's worth it? then transition. if other people want to call you a tranny, let them.

>>45177171
Transitioning is not for cis people though. Only trans people are allowed to transition.

>>45177181
trans is not what you are, but what you do. there are plenty of people who might have decided to transition had they been born at a different time and place, and plenty of trannies who wouldn't have had things been different.

these labels are empty, or at best, social groupings. the only thing that exists in reality is whether you take physical medical steps to transition, or not. trans is not real, but transition is.

>>45177211
Trans *is* what you are. It's shorthand for someone who was born as a different gender to their sex. I'm not one of those people, my gender and my sex always matched. And I fucking hate it.

>>45176552
If you had gender dysphoria you would have a strong discomfort with being seen as a male socially or having a male body, you honestly would know. Stuff like >>45176568 isn't helpful because a lot of cis people are just curious.

I think you should compare your current body with what you can realistically expect from HRT and surgeries you can afford and see which you prefer, taking account that a lot of effort goes into transitioning. People don't talk about this because it's depressing but passing is seen by society as a lot more important than curing dysphoria, someone who trans'ed out of boredom and passes is seen as more valid than someone who had to do it. I guess the better question is what your age and height starting point is.

>>45177224
nah he's right

>>45177224
gender is not a real thing and biology doesn't do "mismatch" or "match". you've been fooled by nonsense trans theology. trans isn't real, but transition is.

just be honest with yourself about what you're actually doing. these stupid nonsensical beliefs are the reason tranny acceptance nosedived the last few years. the public can accept that some males want to be seen as women, not that there's some mystical gender essence.

>>45177249
That's not true, "female brain in male body" was accepted far more for a much longer time than arguing it's a personal preference

>>45177249
>some males want to be seen as women
I don't want to be *seen* as a woman, I want to *be* a woman.

>>45177260
>"female brain in male body"
it's always funny when trannies claim this because they possibly have the least feminine brains of any men on the planet, shown by sexuality, personality and interests.

a man with a feminine brain is just a feminine gay man, but there's absolutely nothing about this situation that would intrinsicaly make you want to troon out. you might want to be seen as a woman to attract men, but most trannies are into women.

>>45176552
you'll know you're trans if the first thing you do after hearing about HRT is order some
>>45177211
>trans is not what you are, but what you do
based and true but it's just convenient shorthand and colloquially used to mean such anyways, not worth the nitpicking unless you're educating cissies imho

>>45177271
when you understand why this is effectively one and the same thing you'll understand why everyone in the gender wars missed the point

>>45177232
Never heard of dissociation?

>>45177249
I thought we all understood this until I saw trannies unironically thinking they were changing their sex

>>45177281
>many trannies aren't valid so no trannies are valid
And you missed the point of my post, that trans being seen as a medical brain problem got legal recognition even in very conservative countries.

>>45177335
validity isn't a valid concept

> trans being seen as a medical brain problem got legal recognition even in very conservative countries.
being a tranny is an inherently conservative kind of thing to do. but just because you figured out that conservatives will like you if you're heteronormative enough doesn't mean it's anything more than another excuse, not reality.
like i said, be honest with yourself about what you're doing and why. the truth can't hurt you.

>>45177331
I've still never seen anyone claim HRT or SRS create the opposite sex's functional reproductive systems or change your chromosomes. When they say change sex they mean altering their sex's characteristics

>>45177331
sorry but if you thought that you're sorely missing the point of transition

>>45177357
no they literally think they are becoming female and make up semantic bs to justify it

>>45177331
yeah calling a person with a vagina, breasts, female hormonal profile for 10 years a man is obviously the sensible thing to do

>>45177351
you literally call the validity of transitioning into question and then the next post you say validity isn't real, I'm not dignifying your nonsense with any more (You)'s

>>45177377
you are a midwit

>>45177357
people that fester in semantic gotchas are either glowies, tourists, or edgy teens, it's not worth it anon

>>45177324
I know what disassociation is, but you can't just say someone non-dysphoric is disassociating while someone dysphoric is mentally lucid

>>45177369
Yeah they're defining female as referring to a cluster of sex characteristics rather than the reproductive organization, it's a stretch but different than believing in magic outright

>>45177377
>you literally call the validity of transitioning into question
where do i do that?
what do you think "validity" even means?
it's a medical procedure and doesn't need validity to be worthwhile for some people.
do you need to be "valid" to have a boob job? a hair transplant?

>>45177398
have you tried explaining this to your insurance?

>>45177417
>lying is okay if it pays for my medical procedures

>>45177441
this is a fundamental truth

>>45177398
Did you know: If you're trans and want a boob job privately, you have to have your validity endorsed by two independent medical personnel and your personal doctor? Meanwhile, cis women and men don't have to prove anything, unless they volunteer information that makes them seem mentally unfit up-front.

>>45177150
cut the sneed reddit shit when someone is literally asking you if you think they are trans and it is extremely obvious to you that they are then you are allowed, morally obligated even to say so
>how do I know that I wasn't just groomed
>I dont trust myself that much
>im just someone who gets easily influenced so idk if i should be allowed to decide for myself
I came to the conclusion on my own and still think these things. and I wish someone had just fucking told me to take hrt
>>45177232
>here comes miss puretrans who had debilitating dysphoria since birth
that isn't how it works for a lot of us
https://archiveofsins.com/lgbt/thread/45072237/#q45072262
it's pretty normal to not know what is wrong or even that something is wrong for a long time
and it is helpful because a cis person would not want to be stuck as the other sex forever

>>45177224
>And I fucking hate it
lmao another repper who refuses to troon because she's too 'malebrained'. you realize that can be fixed right

>>45177260
this, this is the single most accepted narrative by cissoids, whereas "I'm chemically castrating myself and growing breasts because I decided one day" is not very popular actually

>>45177534
you don't get it, someone might disagree with me on an anonymous ephemeral imageboard, i might lose my internet karma points

>>45177534
>>here comes miss puretrans who had debilitating dysphoria since birth
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression but I don't mind if people with weak dysphoria or none at all transition so long as they have a realistic view of it. This is a little mean to say but I trust MTF who were socialized male in childhood to take responsibility for their own body and not become some vocal detrans influencer or something.
If anything that's kind of my point, that your underlying reason is seen a lot less important by broader society than passing itself. So gauging your starting point and whether you would be happy with what you can reasonably expect is more important than psychoanalyzing yourself beyond a certain point.

>>45177306
It's not the same thing. Even if the whole world saw me as a woman, I could not, simply because my gender is what it is, and I wish it wasn't so.

>>45177552
>she
I'm a he.

>>45177599
I agree with you there, I disagree with you saying shit that implies op isn't dysphoric enough

>>45177614
cope
there is no "gender soul"

>>45177630
why do you care what I call you? a man should be confident in his masculinity

>>45177224
>dood being trans is like a metaphysical ontological thing
dumb repper

>>45177651
Then whence comes dysphoria?
>>45177655
I agree. Unfortunately, I am not. I hate my masculinity. It is dangerous, disgusting, disfiguring and disturbing. Inherently.
>>45177669
If being trans is not metaphysical, and it's not physical, what is it? Fictional? Metaphorical? Satire? Performance art? A mental illness? Neurodivergence? Psychological? A symptom? A slur? A cruel joke played on autists?

>>45177645
isn't that basically where the whole
>everyone is valid anyone can transition
sentiment came from
as in, stop encouraging analysis paralysis over 'le valid' red herrings and start taking action
but then cissies coopted it to mean a vibe and style choice and now we're here

>>45177695
>Then whence comes dysphoria?

See

>>45177417

>>45177696
There's another thing, how can a vibe and a style choice turn a man into a woman or vice versa?

>>45177695
>and it's not physical,
did you even read the thread or

>>45177695
>Performance art?
I'll get crucified for saying this aloud but unironically yes womanhood is largely a social performance
That's how cis women view it, my cisf friends growing up sniffed out the repper particles on me by seeing how OK I was to that social performance
The irony is that I should've just smoothbrained and listened to them instead of being an autistic male overthinker and questioned the philosophical validity of my dysphoria for years

>>45177695
it's an incurable neurodevelopmental condition. it has nothing to do with how stereotypically masculine your interests or behavior is, as those stem from learned habits and the effects of testosterone exposure. taking estrogen and unlearning your masculine behaviors will fix this

>>45177703
It is similar to how vibe and style choices allow you to larp as human.

>>45177750
>it has nothing to do with how stereotypically masculine your interests or behavior is, as those stem from learned habits and the effects of testosterone exposure.

Testosterone exposure is neurodevelopmental. You're coping by saying gendered habits aren't largely set in the womb.

>>45177758
>Testosterone exposure is neurodevelopmental
yes, this doesn't contradict what I said
and sorry do you expect me to take you seriously when you just said your mannerisms are determined in the womb

>>45177782
The effects of testosterone in the womb and early childhood are not reversible.

>your mannerisms are determined in the womb
they obviously are though?
femgay boys have never been told to be girly and swishy: they just are
are you some kind of freudian who thinks it's caused by overbearing mothers?
or just an AGP coping because you were never a girly little boy?
stop projecting yourself onto other people

>>45177751
I don't need to larp as a human, being homo sapiens is enough to be a human being, no larp needed.

get a homo drunk enough and watch his fagcent go away. its all fucking performance

>>45177787
>femgay boys have never been told to be girly and swishy: they just are
And here we arrive at my contention. I was never femgay, I was always a man, I hated it but I could do nothing about it because it's who I am, and I fucking hate reality forcing me to be a man with no means to change this.

>>45177782
>mannerisms are determined in the womb
yes
> learned habits and the effects of testosterone exposure. taking estrogen and unlearning your masculine behaviors will fix this
no this isnt a thing
you will always be that (happy) boy playing with toy cars legos
you probably always had masculine interests and habits, hobbies, stuff like that, never any feminine stuff at all. injecting cross sex hormone into yourself doesnt fucking change this sorry ywabam but go ahead if it helps youre dysphoria or whatever the fuck that even is (it's autoandrophobia not dysphoria ackually)

>>45177807
Femgays are still men anon
If you want to transition, transition. You don't need a permission slip from God.

>>45177825
Transitioning won't turn me into a woman, like I've been saying again and again. It's a medical treatment for women who were born in male bodies. I, however, am a man in a male body.

>>45177811
>autoandrophobia
Fuck. This is the word I've been missing. It's not gender dysphoria for me, it's aap

>>45177758
>You're coping by saying gendered habits aren't largely set in the womb.
Is it not that having predispositions to particular ways of acting/receiving/perceiving the world sets you on a path to develop associated gendered behaviours/traits? Or are you saying like those predispositions themselves are inherently gendered in a traditional way (e.g. feminity = soft, timid vs. masculinity = strong, decisive)
>>45177792
It's so over.

>>45177837
how much do you weigh and how tall are you
any other measurements if ur fine with that

>>45177840
It's so over that it never even began :(

>>45177842
My weight and height and any other body measurement is completely irrelevant to me having both a gender and a sex I despise.

>>45177837
No, it's a medical treatment which will feminize your appearance. There are no women in male bodies although feminine gay men have feminized brains. There are no "valid trans people". If you transition, you're trans and that's all there is to it.

>>45177840
Femininity is the set of traits that are attractive to heterosexual men, and masculinity is the set of traits that are attractive to heterosexual women. These are largely set in the womb or in the course of puberty. That's why incels find it so hard to accept they just aren't attractive and there's nothing to be done.

>>45177787
the brain is the most malleable organ in the human body. on a scale of years estrogen exposure very notably changes it. and anyway the part of the brain responsible for sex dysphoria has nothing to do with behaviour or sexuality, which is why the rate of gynephilia is similar to that of cis men

>>45177870
>There are no women in male bodies
So how does a man become a woman then?

>>45177879
this is simply false, and why would it be relevant anyway? we don't care about your kidney or pancreas.
you can't change someone's sexuality, personality, or even their tastes for the most part.

>the part of the brain responsible for sex dysphoria
"gender dysphoria" is a fictitious disease created for the purpose of claiming medical insurance for transitioning

>the rate of gynephilia is similar to that of cis men
a simpler hypothesis to consider: trannies are men

>>45177807
>no means to change this
literally the only thing stopping you is your own retarded self annulment complex

>>45177870
>These are largely set in the womb or in the course of puberty. That's why incels find it so hard to accept they just aren't attractive and there's nothing to be done.
Reminds me of the dichotomy of autism in women vs. men lol.

>>45177888
>you can't change someone's sexuality, personality, or even their tastes for the most part.
I should just fucking rope myself

>>45177892
The only thing stopping me is there is no treatment for the illness I have. They can't end my wishing to be a woman, and they can't turn me into one either.

>>45177811
>you were not magically repulsed by toy cars therefore you are neurologically compatible with the male body plan because I said so
damn. you got me. I mean who could argue against logic like that

>>45177932
>magically
Male and female psychology are fundamentally different

>>45177911
there is indeed no cure. but there is treatment, your refusal of which is nothing but an act of self harm

>>45177896
why would you want to change that stuff? that's like stopping being *you*. your sexuality, personality and interests, along with your memories, are you.

the good news is that you *can* change what you look like.

>>45177946
There is no treatment either. Transitioning does not make me any less of a man or a male.

>>45177943
and this is related to toy cars how

>>45177932I
I'm Correct you dumb nigger

>>45177950
that's literally exactly what it does

>>45177949
>why aren't you happy being you??? I'm glad to be myself, you should be like me
Exactly. I should. I'm not. And I can't, because personality, gender and sex are immutable.

>>45177958
No it doesn't. I would still be a man in a male body. It changes neither side of the equation.

>>45177951
Because men love cars and most women dont dummy
and the ones that do are still foids and not men

>>45177951
Psychological differences cause the genders to gravitate towards different interests - toy cars over dolls, for example.

>>45177960
how can you be unhappy or happy over being yourself?
you ontologically don't have a choice in the matter.

>>45177992
Exactly. I have no choice in the matter. I simply despise myself.

>>45177888
trannies begin as almost entirely male, yes. however they have a fundamental internal incompatibility with that fact which causes distress and the desire to change their sex, like the pouty nona here. and in that endeavor one can get very far, as human biology is very malleable

>>45177960
literally none of that is immutable

>>45177973
>the love of cars, which have existed for less than 300 years, is the product of an evolutionary process that took millions of years

>>45178019
Yes it is. Personality cannot be changed, gender cannot be changed, sex cannot be changed.
I've been to therapy. I've looked into it. I literally have an undiagnosed personality disorder, cluster B flavor by the looks of it. You can't change that, because you can't change personality.

>>45178029
Men are attracted to objects and machines
aka cars dumbass jeez

>>45177981
kids have gendered interests beaten into them, often literally lmao

>>45178029
Before cars, it was carriages. Before those, it was other things lost to history, but probably war and hunting. Men and women gravitate towards different behaviors and interests based on their biology which informs their psychology.

>>45178035
there's a difference between mannerisms and having a personality disorder dumbass. personality is an overly vague term anyway

>>45178045
So parents raise their kids to be trans, then?

>>45178009
how is that different from saying they're men who want to look like women?

>>45178045
>beaten into playing with toy cars
>Enjoy playing with toy cars
>"beaten" into playing with toy cars
Ok
look at hsts vs agp and see that the hsts likes dolls because she is a girl and the agp likes toy cars because he is an prenatal androgenized male man

>>45178037
so boys would naturally only play with cars if left to their own devices? and girls would only play with dolls?

>>45178057
Mannerisms can't be changed either. One can pretend to have mannerisms different to one's own, that's called acting. I do not act, I am. I will not betray myself, no matter how much suffering I have to endure as a consequence. Because I do not lie.

>>45178058
parents actively groom their kids to be gender conforming. I don't know how you got trans from that

>>45178070
mostly, yes
you can watch documentaries on chimpanzees and young female chimps also love playing with dolls that a human gave them or even sticks they nurse like dolls

>>45178070
Not "only", but "predominantly", yes.

>>45178051
also adding on most mtf trannies today would simply be normal men in the wild west and leverage their male superiority strength and power normally as well or something lol funny to think about

>>45178080
Then where do trans people come from? How does a boy who is groomed to be a boy continue to act like a girl?

>>45178062
because simply "men who want to look like women" doesn't convey how serious it is

>>45178072
all your mannerisms are acting. you likely even have different mannerisms when you talk to different people. almost everyone does that

>>45178090
Also, there are men who want to *be* women, not simply look like one. This isn't a question of crossdressing and slapping on makeup for me. I want to actually, genuinely, BE a woman.

>>45178089
you tell me

>>45178090
it's a factual statement, how you feel about it isn't relevant

>>45178089
acting like a girl does not imply you want to be a girl and wanting to be a girl does not imply you act like a girl
most trannies are boys who act like other boys but still want to be girls, and there are many gay men who act like girls but have no problem being male

>>45178111
if you could be 80% woman would you do it or would you remain 100% man

>>45178100
No, I literally do not. I act the same everywhere, all the time. Anything else would be manipulation by lying. It's simply that different people evoke sightly different mannerisms from me because of how they act towards me.

>>45178122
There's no such thing. You are either a woman, or you are not.

>>45178125
>does the thing but copes that it's actually not because that would be lying o algo

>>45178132
alright. have fun being 100% man then.

>>45178080
>parents actively groom their kids to be gender conforming.
it's the opposite
most liberal parents are actively dismayed when their boys act like boys and their girls act like girls

>>45178140
If someone is hostile towards me, it's going to cause a different reaction than if someone is welcoming towards me. But with both people, I act according to the mannerisms I have. I do not change myself based on who I interact with.
Ofc, I know that is expected of me, and that's why I could never hold a job, or finish school, or keep friends, because everyone insists on everyone to play a character instead of letting everyone be who they are.

>>45178153
Have fun being "100%" alive. Do you get it? You are either alive, or you are dead. You are either a man, or you are a woman.

>>45178192
death is defined as the absence of life. man is not the absence of woman, they are separate concepts, and it is possible for something to be neither

>>45178217
Man is the other side of the coin to a woman. You are either heads or tails.

>>45176552
Go /mtfg/ it's in one of the links

do you feel like something is inherently wrong with you
do you look into the mirror and think that it's not you you're looking at
https://genderdysphoria.fyi

>>45179810
>do you look into the mirror and think that it's not you you're looking at
for as long as i can remember

>>45179810
>do you look into the mirror and think that it's not you you're looking at
What does that even mean? I know the person I stare at in the mirror is me because that's how mirrors work (hopefully) but that's it. I don't know what it means to not recognize myself because I don't know what it means to recognize myself

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>>45180859
*hugs*
>>45180897
i can only speak for myself, but i never felt like i was looking at myself when i looked into the mirror, rather, it felt like i was staring at a body, a flesh puppet, that i was controlling against my will, but not me
the depersonalization described on gdb is broadly how i felt, though not all of it

>>45181061
Still struggling with most of the list

>>45181181
I'm sorry, nona... all my "symptoms" disappeared once I started taking HRT, the person I see in the mirror nowadays is me, even if I barely look any different

>>45181297
I'm one year on hrt...

>>45181310
so am I... are your levels okay?

>>45178233
this is simply untrue

"Trans" is an adjective that describes a person who takes cross-sex hormones.
Do you take cross-sex hormones?
Y You are trans.
N You are not trans.
Simple.

>>45181605
Any porn addicted rapist can inject himself with hrt once a week

>>45183730
Uh … OK. What an odd thing to say.

>>45181350
I'm certain they are. I did a blood test about half a year ago and they were fine (~400pg/ml) and I also sometimes like to double dose for fun sometimes

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>>45183761

>>45183783
whoever made this should be publically executed

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>>45176552
>how do i know that i wasnt just groomed by tttt by spending so much time here that i convinced myself that im trans?
By asking yourself whether you've just begged the question. However, real trans girls can still be groomed by /tttt/ into a harmfully perverted sense of what being transgender is. So if you truly want to know, then first of all, here is not the best place to look; nor anything like discord, tiktok, youtube, etc. The only healthy way to learn is anywhere else. I wish you luck on your journey and I hope you will never be seen here again.

>>45184024
how about you just tell us what you mean instead of vagueposting

>>45184035
I humbly decline your invitation to the retarded language game. You know exactly what I am talking about.

>>45176552
sounds like youve probably asked yourself a lot of questions already
at what point would you decide for sure that you are or for sure that you arent though? could any one persons opinion here influence you to change your mind?
i dont think it matters whether or not you are trans it more matters what you do about it
do you want to take hrt? change your pronouns? redo your whole wardrobe?
you can do any one of these things on their own or all of them together its your life to live, nobody else can feel the rain on your skin

>>45181061
Funny, I just remembered reading in an off hand comment that we're just a brain piloting a flesh mecha and never understood why it didn't resonate as deeply with others as it did with me lol.