>>45202889
>affects you identity and sexuality
this is a completely babal statement btw

>>45202895
banal fuck

>>45202889
because normies are unable to wield science responsibly so extremely mundane ideas like "sexuality and gender identity are influenced by environmental factors" becomes "you can intentionally groom people into being trans and gay and there are a significant number of people doing this, warranting policy change to target minorities"

>>45202895
>this is a completely banal statement btw
Then why the fuck can't I find anyone talking about it

>>45202907
Actually horrifying that people will sacrifice honesty just because they're unwilling to proactively defend said truth.

cishets don't want to admit that their identities are as socially constructed as ours

>>45202911
because it can't reliably be measure and "has an effect" is once again so encompassing as to become meaningless

>>45202907
/thread
Same reason Freddy mercury is presented as gay when he was verifiably bisexual with an admitted preference for me
The normie mind cannot conceive of a man who has sex with other men who isn’t cordoned off from ever having sex with women again under the label of “gay”
What makes you think this wouldn’t result in massive increases in conversion therapy?

>>45202907
99% of the world unironically believes ideas work like cognitohazards

>>45202920
the truth you want to defend is rarely so cut and dry in these discussions so it would be a real shame if we sent parents to jail for their kids turning out LGBT only for it to later turn out we were wrong

these discussions are happening between people who work in the field, they are not happening in the break room of your office or on the evening news because nobody wants to hear about effect sizes and CIs

>>45202944
How many fucking people do you think want to imprison gay people you paranoid weirdo? Its like 15% AT MOST. Get off the Internet

>>45202889
https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs10519-018-9889-z
>Findings in adults
>This suggests that genetic factors contribute to the variation in gender identities among both adults and children. The findings in assigned males as reported by Bailey were somewhat higher (h2=50%) than in assigned females (h2=37%) in the same study for childhood gender identity while the heritability estimate for adult gender identity among assigned males in Bailey (h2=31%) was closer to their assigned female estimate (h2=24%), suggesting that adult gender identity is similarly heritable regardless of sex assigned at birth. In conclusion, these studies suggest that variation in gender-related measures in adults are mostly explained by genetic and unique environmental effects, while the shared environmental effects (i.e., cultural factors) are negligible.
>Findings in adolescents
>Overall, the studies in adolescents show both effects of genetic factors and effects of the shared environment. However, the statistical significance of the shared environmental effects is not robust and likely reflects some level of confounding of gender identity with gender non-conformity and gender roles. This is in contrast with the studies in adults which demonstrate negligible effects of shared environment.
>Findings in children
>In summary, studies in children are scarce and the findings thus far are conflicting, with two large but dependent studies showing substantial effects of the shared environment, and one large independent study showing no such effects. This may be due in part to developmental timing of gender identity, the diversity of instruments used to measure gender self-concepts, differences in the underlying constructs being measured by each instrument, and weaker influence of genetic effects influencing gender identity in childhood.

>>45202968
>Conclusion
>This review of existing family and twin studies summarizes significant and consistent evidence for the role of innate genetic factors in the development of both cisgender and transgender identities, a negligible role for shared environmental factors, and a small potential role for unique environmental factors. Heritability estimates are consistent with other behavioral and personality traits, which generally fall in the range of 30−60%.

>>45202960
what the fuck are you talking about

it affects it but not in an obvious way and it's bio-psycho-social meaning if you weren't such a faggot you wouldn't be trans

>>45202889
Because they know you're about to make a retarded smartass point and no one wants to listen to you be smug.

>>45202944
>the truth you want to defend is rarely so cut and dry in these discussions so it would be a real shame if we sent parents to jail for their kids turning out LGBT only for it to later turn out we were wrong
You're doing too many leaps of logic just to convince yourself of something

>>45203013
see >>45203006

>>45203006
>Because they know you're about to make a retarded smartass point and no one wants to listen to you be smug
This person is case in point


I'm literally trans, and I think it's my parents fault. But even just INSINUATING that possibility, makes low IQ monkeys assume shit about you + your intentions.

You will suffer a lot in life anon! Don't assume

>>45202944
>>45202987
>>45203019
Oh that's why you're not actually having a conversation and are just trying to assume and push your own weird agenda

While my parents style of raising me influenced who I became the tranny stuff came from elsewhere. Im fairly certain I am intersex I just havent had the money to test, was an extremely low t no facial hair short androgynous man before transition.


The way they raised me more affected the way I view and react to the world. If theyre influence mattered id be a straight dude. Not saying parents CANT influence dysphoria coming about since some people transition their fucking 6 year old but its not common at all.

>>45203029
As i wrote it a mirror appeared before me and glared at me.

And i still hit enter.

>>45202968
>>45202975
Studies are cool and whatever, but theyre always extremely small studies, funded by institutions that have something to prove. Replication crisis is real and you're a rube if you're letting your understanding of the world rely on flimsy studies done by 20yo Jewish kids who only got into college because of nepotism + affirmative action

>>45202942
kinda true though, how many people still think vaccines cause autism or red wine is good for heart health

>>45202911
This is like asking
>"why isn't anyone talking about the impact of skull shape on criminality?"
They did, like decades upon decades ago, and then the idea faded when it became obvious it wasn't rooted in actual, measurable science.

>>45203134
Anon literally everything you do was founded on the way the world interacted with you. You speak the same way everyone in your environment does. You can say it doesn't have a total affect on your identity, but to say it's total null and void is extremely unreasonable

>>45203059
thats okay. (you)s are more important anyways :^)

>>45203172
>but to say it's total null and void is extremely unreasonable
are you illiterate?

>>45203134
>They did, like decades upon decades ago, and then the idea faded when it became obvious it wasn't rooted in actual, measurable science.
Did you really think people were going to read this and not think you weren't a bitter underaged tranny lol?

>>45203295
>seeing a historical reading of phrenology
>first instinct is to go "you must be a tranny"
Mental illness.

>>45202889
My parents actively tried to make me cis, 'straight', and masculine. All of these goals of theirs failed.

>>45203444
Dude you are genuinely so retarded. I am a tranny lmfao. You are a bitter child who's probably extremely ugly/unfeminine and use cringe, obviously pseudointellectual language to cope and justify why you're Le Trutrans!!1! I was literally just pointing out how blatantly desperate/coping your post was and it worked loooooool

>>45203517
Such a long post and zero explanation of this supposed correlation.

>>45203444
Girl you literally wrote "when it became obvious it wasn't rooted in actual, measurable science" like you're a 13yo and making up bullshit to argue with your grandpa on Facebook

>>45203134
>>45203529
someone struck a nerve! go take a nap babe

>>45202889
the same reason you can't admit that social conditioning is the foundation for religious beliefs. god only exist because we allow adults to indoctrinate children into religious dogma.

>>45203547
My point is that social conditioning is literally the foundation for every forward facing identity humans have. Innate behaviors are more of a biological consequence. This is not inherently a bad thing, the bad thing is denying it.

>>45203572
Okay? And? Let's say it were true: your parents are the reason you're a tranny. What does that change for you, exactly? Does having someone to point the finger at make you feel better? Does it make it easier for you to accept?

>>45203710
No it makes me feel like I should avoid those feelings and try to be normal instead

>>45203534
>making up bullshit
is phrenology real now?

>>45203838
But why? Even if it's a result of your parents, upbringing, or environment, it's still you, isn't it? It's a part of you, and you shouldn't try to deny yourself the ability to be happy in who you are

>>45204018
It doesn't make me happy that I'm abnormal from the trauma my parents put me through. It makes me hate myself to my core

>>45202889
i admit it but the people saying it to me expect me to get mad at it or whatever

>>45204038
What trauma do you have? What happened, nona?

>>45204062
Just "trauma" like my mom hating men, and spreading that hate to me, which made me hate being a male. This wasn't something I consciously realized or acknowledged until after I started transitioning.

>>45203710
first they gave you the troon gene then made you rep and also denied all your other ambitions
they're trying to kill you basically

>>45203106
You're not wrong but we have studies on multiple different populations all suggesting a strong innate component to gender identity (and sexuality).
For another example look into what happens to XY babies with cloacal exstrophy. Cloacal exstrophy is a severe birth defect that results in organs outside the body. Notably however they'd be expected to have normal testosterone exposure and effect in utero. It has been historically common to reassign and raise as female male babies born with the condition due to the surgical difficulty/impossibility of giving them normal male external anatomy. There have been follow-up studies on their sexuality and gender identity that have called into question the practice of raising any of them as female.

>>45204932
Okay yes I agree there are some genetic predispositions to identity and sexuality. I do however think it's extremely underestimated how much ones environment and circumstances can shape them. As much of a feminist as I am, I genuinely think the feminist movement, or general attitude of people towards women vs. men has shaped a lot, if not the majority, of the modern trans movement, and its not to be understated how many people have been swept up in this because of whatever cultural environment they occupy. If society had more respect for both men and women, we would not have seen so many trannies and I would probably just be a straight male.

(aside from the totally contrived media attention brought to transgenderism (which I also blame as a response to modern gender war culture))

>>45205045
There's a lot going on but I don't really think it's that. For one we're spawning FTMs in record numbers too.
One is that mass awareness and the proliferation of informed consent options means you don't really have to be nearly as motivated to start hormones, or to contemplate transition in the first place, as you would've had to been back in my day.
A blessing and a curse for sure, because it's getting plenty of people the help they needed.
But it's such an overdiscussed thing that middle school foids are having he/they goth phases instead of regular goth phases.
They'll grow out of it, hopefully without permanently wrecking their bodies in ways they'll regret.
Separately it feels terminally unwoke to ever question someone's transition motives, goals, or likely outcome. People are legit going into this with the expectation that they will be women (or men) because they say they are, or because they think hormones are literal fucking magic and will turn them into anime girls, and are not really considering the prospect of a failed transition or the likely consequences of one. It's sad to watch.
I think you should be allowed regardless of course but it's not a game for the faint of heart nor the faint of butt. People with lives and families and careers are making themselves terminally unemployable social pariahs chasing something they will never reach.

And even if you do pass this will complicate your life for the rest of your life.

You have to wonder if some subset of them would've been better off never learning transition was an option.

Alternatively, maybe it would've been better if transition was an option for them 20-50 years ago or whenever it might've still actually worked.

I don't know. I'm rambling. Some of us need this medicine and it's scary to watch the whole thing be reduced to some bizarre larp.
Walking straw men except when they fall so do we.

>>45203572
being trans is just the forward facing identity label for innate behavior