>>45271215
stop posting this shit

>>45271215
Can someone explain to me the backstory behind the guy/gal who makes this and what it is? I only heard about it with the last part but am still lost as to what it is

>>45271263
too lazy to explain. its not that long so just read from the start here: https://www.webtoons.com/en/canvas/the-boy-from-venus/the-cute-cashier/viewer?title_no=1166130&episode_no=1&readingLanguageCode=en

>tricking her
10 years in male prison for conceptual rape

>>45271236

If you remember the last episode, the memory is distorted from how she actually looked in the mirror.

The alt text actually spells it out:
>Panel 14: A memory comes back to them, of looking in the mirror that morning. In the memory, they are hairier than they were (even having chest hair), their face is more chiseled, and their brow is more prominent.


link to previous episode:
https://nitter.click/shenanigansen/status/2118748112210583778

>>45271215
Anyone got the next comic?

>>45271529
Can't afford 1 dollar?

>>45271226
He's right, you know

>>45271620
No I just don't support the petty bourgeoisie on principle

>>45271226
DAE inner monologue still calls you your deadname occasionally, and you kind of fixate on it and can't escape it for a lil bit? Just me?

>>45271634
>comic artists are petty bourgeoisie
really?

>>45271697
Independent artists are petty bourgeois, yes. This is extremely basic stuff. It's relation to means of production, not based on how much income you make, or whatever moral category you're imagining defines it.

>>45271215
reminder that shen needs to be sent to hell for doing a bait&switch "femboy" comic, performing erasure, dividing the queer community, for the sake of cynically capitalizing on the word of mouth controversy that he knew would result

>>45271215
>>45271221
>>45271226
>>45271236
new stonetoss lets fucking goooo

>>45271737
Trvke

>>45271992
where is the among us?

>>45271737
>Independent artists are petty bourgeois, yes
petty bourgeois have employees

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>>45272032
I can't stand socdem and liberal falsification. One day a great barbarian wave will come crashing into your world, washing away everything, including your inane beliefs. I sleep with a smile knowing it is inevitable.

>>45272137
"independent artists are petty bourgeois"
t. aibros
independent artist means of production:
>a pencil and paper and a phone camera
aibro means of production:
>10s of thousands of dollars of computing hardware

are women bourgeois??

>>45271697
Petty bourgeois owns their means of production, bourgeois owns others means of production, proletariat sells their labour, and lumpen are either excluded from traditional labour or unwilling to sell their labour.

>>45272244
in socialism everyone is petty bourgeois

so shen did transition eh. making adrian a tranny is pretty silly, the whole comic loses the only interesting thing it had going.
but i guess it's true that all homosexuals are just repressing trannies.

>>45272166
Again, those are matters of economic scale, the social relation is the same. You are a neoluddite! I hate the overusage of AI and think 90% of it is cheap horseshit too, but you guys moralize it way too much. It's just a misapplication of tool usage at worst, a technical issue. Not some innate evil. Anything bad from AI is a direct result of already existing social relations from capitalism.

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>>45272325
>in socialism everyone is petty bourgeois
Welcome back Karl Kautsky! Long live the SPD!

>>45272434
i was just agreeing with what you said

>>45272401
a kid making mud pies in a hut is petty bourgeois as literally anyone possessing literally anything and using it to make literally anything is petty bourgeois
i am very smart and marxist

>>45271226
>>45271236
>Yes seeing my own face in the mirror and observing natural physical features makes me want to kill myself BUT I'M NOT MENTALLY ILL STOP SAYING I AM

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>>45272462
Notice how a child making mud pies is isolated from any economy or social relation in your example. Meanwhile Shen is an artist who produces artwork and sells early access to it as a product.
I will defer to Krushchev for what is to be done with you.

>>45272512
defining social distinctions such that they apply to literally everyone participating in a society is definitely what marx intended dialectics to be used for

all people who work at workers cooperatives are also petty bourgeois btw

>>45272533
>defining social distinctions such that they apply to literally everyone participating in a society is definitely what marx intended dialectics to be used for
Yes??? No one is outside of society?? You just don't want to call something petty bourgeois cause it's a moral category for something bad to you, and artists are too wholesum to be that.
>>45272548
Anton Pannekoek truth supernova. Total trade unionism death.

>>45272616
a trade union is the same thing as a workers cooperative. i am very marxist.

>>45272616
>Yes??? No one is outside of society??
true, the point of a definition is not to distinguish anything but rather to muddle everything together into an indifferentiable lump

btw, anyone i don't like and resent and desire to see enslaved to me when i (inevitably) become commissar of the ML republic is also petit bourgeois
anything that objects to this framing is moralizing

>>45272667
I was obviously invoking something similar not for a joke but because I genuinely believe unions are the same as co-ops. Pannekoek was also known for being against syndicalism and worker owned businesses but is often cited for his critique of trade unions. Don't be dense now.
>>45272678
Certainly, I agree. No notes. I want to make love to you.

>>45271215
It'd be gigabased if Shen made it out as if the permaonline trannies were the source of doubt and self-deprication but I'm afraid he'll just pander to them instead

>>45271737
>>45272244
and so why does that mean its bad to give money to a comic artist?

>>45272984
Small business types losing their position and becoming proletarianized is historically progressive.

>>45273370
historical progression is when everyone's lives are destroyed so they may become slaves for my new great Leninist state led by a small clique of self-selected university academics who staff the vanguard (the only people not in complete poverty who AREN'T petit bourgeois btw)

>>45273470
I do thise and say thise

The Reddit comments FINALLY have largely swung to concluding this is a trans character who is in denial. The "tHE fIrSt PaGe hAd TheM cAll TheMsElVes a BOY he/HIM So GNC-FeMboy" mob has lost the upvotes for the first time ever

how long until the inevitable coming out of shen as a trans woman? I think this episode pretty much left everything out in the open, so I don't think it will be too long before it happens.

also, why are you spergs talking about fucking petty burgeois in a thread about fucking shen? Some leftists really need to stop hanging out in leftist discords named "fully luxury gay communism" or whatever and touching some grass. This is why you guys lose the popular vote, you have no idea what the average worker actually thinks and cares about and instead are trapped in your little communities completely devoid of any sense of reality.

>>45273370
>>45274142
i'm pretty sure that marx wouldn't consider paying an artist for their art to be a bad thing.

>>45271634
Horrible way of interpreting class relations. We are meant to get rid of social bonds and class, not enforce them. Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Kropotkin were all bourgeois or petty bourgeois themselves.

>>45274159
He would probably see it as harmless, not worse than a painter asking for donations on the street to make ends meet.

He would be more worried about, idk, the fucking techno fascists or the transnational capital, and definitely about assets managers like black rock, not some repressed tranny asking for a dollar on the internet.

>>45274142
>how long until the inevitable coming out of shen as a trans woman?
It will be part of the comic at the very end.

>>45274159
>>45274233
>>45274277
Look at my proletariat dawg, we ain't ever gettin a revolution.

>>45272032
>>45272166

omg retarded americunt read marx, it's literally anyone between thr high bourgeois and immiserated wage workers who have NOTHING to sell but their labor power. artists literally sell the PRODUCT of their labors themselves, theyre literal artisans, the first and most glaring example of a petit bourgeois!!

>>45274233
>Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Kropotkin were all bourgeois or petty bourgeois themselves.
at least the first three studied the class struggle scientifically, can't say the same about the average "communist" larper today

>>45274159
>moralfagging
childish retards see cold class analysis and immediately believe its taking sides lmao. marx loved art, he still called artists for what they are when analyzing capitalism!

>>45272244
>Petty bourgeois owns their means of production, bourgeois owns others means of production
retards barely get past the first few pages of capital vol 1 (of 3!) and then mindlessly repeat shit they saw on like a xeet or something and pretend they know what theyre talking about lmao

>>45271737
>Independent artists are petty bourgeois,
So are employed artists. This includes most white collar workers too. Nobody working a cushy office job is going to risk their fucking life to abolish capital. Niggas ought to read why Marx even arrived at the conclusion of the proletariat being the sole revolutionary class instead of regurgitating slogans.

>>45271346
>they
>them
Audrey in like two more chapters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maJgjTp0NQ0

>>45271529
not on usual sites yet

>>45275255
This is the post that started this discussion. they were taking sides against art.
>>45271634
>No I just don't support the petty bourgeoisie on principle

Why are you guys debating communism? Somebody post the next one off patreon

>>45271215
>>45271221
>>45271226
>>45271236
He's worried that he's "tricking her" because he knows she doesn't like or trust men, but likes and trusts him because he's so feminine. I imagine the pit of flowers came from a string of past relationships where he accidentally led others on, then hit them with the
>Oh! Actually, I'm---
and it always got ugly or, at best, awkward after that.
>>45275613
This board is the closest 4chan will likely have to /leftypol/, so...

>>45275671
if I wanted /leftypol/ I'd go back to 2017

>>45275677
it's still alive, despite everything
>>>leftypol.org
happy 12th anniversary, /leftypol/

>>45275694
Yea I know, it wasn't fun since then though

>>45275694
>>45275677
leftypol is such a shithole these days they ban you for posting marx and not sucking mamdanis asshole.

>>45275605
then theyre larping and or ragebaiting. communism is strictly about the proletariat and no other class but this poster is extending that to personal choice, absolutely irrelevant to the workers movement

>>45275745
I love leftist infighting so much! It's only ever done GOOD things for all of us!

>>45275757
>omg everyone join hands and stop thinking
ok mussolini

im a communist nor a fucking leftoid lmao

>>45275757
What the fuck does this even mean? Just vote for dems? Retarded amerilard.

If only you larping lib faggots learned how the workers internationals were rabidly fighting off class collaborationism and reformism when the communist movement was strongest. Then WWII happened and the working class hasn't recovered yet from that.

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>>45275757
person who unironically believes class society would end if only marxists stopped calling out bullshit online (charitably assuming you actually want class society to end and don't just want a repeat of the European welfarist model applied locally)

>>45275765
>>45275787
>>45275805
I'm just saying, can't we agree on principles first and foremost? And can one of those principles be, "Saying 'fuck artists that make things we like, because capitalism or something' is stupid"?

How is it that trannies are more politically successful and influential in Thailand, Cuba, and Brazil compared to the United States and Western Europe?

>>45276359
>trannies are more politically successful and influential in Thailand, Cuba, and Brazil
They are?

>>45276393
Brazil has a trans congresswoman.
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_Hilton
Kind of funny how the article starts off with "Assigned male at birth..." while most other articles about trans people don't phrase it like that. Smells like theyfab activity.

>>45275671
audrey is pretty clearly nonbinary or mtf.

>>45275787
whats wrong with voting for dems?

>>45276438
Didn't the US have an MtF cogresswoman too, at least for a little bit?
>>45276442
He says "I'm a man" in the first chapter. Although, if Shen's alt text is calling him "they/them"...

>Val: What about you? Do you like girls?
>Audrey: ... I... don't- I don't know.
>V: Boys?
>A: ... I-I-I think that I like painting. *laughs nervously*
>V: *looks down awkwardly*

>>45276476
>He says "I'm a man"
So do a lot of trannies.

>>45276814
Sure, but so do a lot of femboys and non-conforming cis males.

Obviously this comic is very clearly depicting a trans woman experience, but I find it very funny how everyone's evidence for Shen *himself* being a trans woman is literally just "no one could possibly write about a demographic they themselves aren't a part of".

>>45277003
This often?

>>45277008
Everything I know about Shen shows he's the exact same kind of kinda faggy guy whose friend group is 99% lgbt people (and of that, mostly trans people) that I am so yeah? Maybe, honestly. I can see him just wanting to draw about these kinds of things.

>>45277003
other than the years of "me as a girl" comics

>>45277003
>>45277018
hit dogs holler

>>45277003
Isnt he literally seeing a therapist for gender reasons?

>>45277019
link?
>>45277023
really?

>>45277003
>Obviously this comic is very clearly depicting a trans woman experience, but I find it very funny how everyone's evidence for Shen *himself* being a trans woman is literally just "no one could possibly write about a demographic they themselves aren't a part of".
yeah i feel its kinda leaping to conclusions. other than audrey look a lot like shen's persona.

They could have trans friends. or even be some other flavor of lgbt than m2f

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>>45277057
you didnt know? this was from this summer i think

>>45277057
you know people have been accusing shen of being a repper for years, way before he ever made this comic right

Hi lol

>>45277061
There's too much evidence piling up in favor of the shen is transfem theory.

I mean yeah, sure, maybe some cis guy who has had some first hand experience with transgirls might be interested in writing about them, and even making a story with one of them as the protagonist, but with shen there's this prior story of eggy comments, followed by he saying he's seeing a therapist for "gender stuff", and now this.

I think, at the very least, Shen wants to tell us something, and choose this very roundabout way to do so because brainworms and/or reasons. It might end up being he's trans, or maybe he's an enby, whatever it is is gender related and it won't stay as "I'm just a really sensitive cis guy".

Need an ito inspired comic like this where it's boymoders dying in their neet rooms being replaced by hermit crabs and their families don't notice them being gone because whatever exists in that room is their child

>>45277175
*rapes you orally and anally*

>>45277131
i heard of that but never paid much attention

so does anyone have next weeks comic

>>45277697
If it's not on the Pawchive yet, it'll be... eventually

I think Audrey will only come out when/if Shen does

>>45272834
of course. money talks, bullshit walks. and it's easy to milk the mentally ill.

>>45274142
according to some, who have supposedly met him at cons or whatever, he's already trannified.

Judging by previous things Shen has said about the comic this is just a pivot. It's clear it was originally just about a femboyxfemcel but tranny's are so fucking relentless he pivoted. He is bike cuck at the end of the day and always will be. Blue is for boys and pink is for girls ass mentality

>>45276359
they just elected a bunch of trannies in the us no?
anyway m*arxism and c*ommunism can only work when there's a permanent global surveillance system in place that's managed by some unbiased source.

To amend >>45277777 (Me), somewhat, I think the idea for this comic was made by Shen while going to that "therapy for gender stuff" he talked about in >>45277063, and this all him working through the idea of just being a feminine guy in a world where that kind of thing only makes sense if it means you want to be a girl. That post was apparently made during summer, and per WebToon, the comic started in August, so the timeline adds up. Either we're all transvestigating too hard and Audrey's going to come out of this saying
>Nope. Still a guy, I just like dresses and being pretty.
or maybe Shen had some kind of breakthrough with the gender therapist and decided they want to be a girl, and that will be Audrey's character arc. Either way, it's the same thought I had with Gooseworx and Bunlith: I don't care about the artist's personal baggage, even if they're putting it out there in their work; are they making something that's an all-around good experience? So far, the comic is interesting, just as a character study of this temperamental misandrist meeting a "moid" who ends up breaking her programming, and now we're about to see more of the guy's (or... whatever) perspective. I like it, and it's nowhere near as cringe as Shen at his worst, so I'm optimistic (same way I was optimistic about The Witch Upstairs Ep. 2, so... I guess I'm just dumb).

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what do you even talk about with a gender therapist what would they possibly offer outside access to hormones

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https://pawchive.pw/patreon/user/72813/post/174571357
holy shit the mechs were actually about something

>>45277912
Presumably, it's someone who knows the difference between actual-factual gender dysphoria and
>... No, you just liked Barbies when you were 3 and MLP when it was big online

>>45271695
my inner monologue isn't in third person and it's not describing everything I do

>>45271346
>their face is more chiseled, and their brow is more prominent
these aren't even drawn in lol we gotta start reading these religiously

This comic makes no sense what is even Audrey repressing?
>has allegedly voice trained due to being perceived as a women by strangers
>dresses as a women full time
>uses female name and pronouns exclusively outside haha i’m just a guy
She already did all the hard parts the easiest thing to do is inject estrogen weekly. It’s so strange. This type of person does not exist in real life at all.

>>45277962
>passoid crossdresser insisting to herself she is a a man and male while the clock is ticking
there are actually people like this irl

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https://pawchive.pw/patreon/user/72813/post/175030079
...

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>>45277995
I wonder if she'll be important...
I wonder if she'll be "she."

>seize the means of production
>stop being proletarian
>no longer the revolutionary class
>mfw

>>45275757
This is a comically terrible argument. Even beyond that most people are already deeply against communism exactly because they aren't proletarian to begin with, so it fails on the spot, the implied alternative is some sort of contentless movement - whereby the views of those around are fixed and one must optimise matching to them. Communism isn't about the masses or the majority of other populist slop, it's only about the proletariat. Any other wishy washy shit about "humanity" is only a byproduct of proletarians abolishing class society.

>>45278180
>no longer classes at all
Yes, that is the point moron.

>>45277995
that image did irreparable damage to closeted trannies coping as "femboys"

>>45277912
When I realized I was trans, I promised my gf that I'd go to therapy to figure it out and also to get formally diagnosed so i could get Rx hrt. I tried two therapists to "talk through it."
>1st was a stupid old southern woman who called me "transgendered" and said that hormones would change my voice
>2nd was just some lib woman who insisted i have cptsd (i do) even though that wasnt what i wanted to discuss at all. she tried to get me to do some weird pseudoscience therapy with eye movement and i stopped there.
i eventually went to an informed consent clinic and they gave me hormones without issue.
i imagine that shen is probably going thru #2

>>45278636
which of the 2 was better?

>>45277962
This type of person used to be me but technically also a cheat because I was at the time still in highschool and was around transphobic people in life which convinced me not to diy but then also was otherwise made entirely unable to conventionally.pursue """"""""""""""""""""real"""""""""""""""""""""" hormones

>>45277063
If shen isn't actually trans or remotely irl queer femmy, I think they should kill themselves for deciding to make media from the perspective of a trans experience (in a actively trans oppressive society) that then people are going to perceive and have more thoughts and possibly worse thoughts about/toward trans people
Can people unironically like... If ur not apart of x community, it's baiting
Is it really that hard to understand
Shit pmo and also while ur profiting off it actively kyskyskyskyskyskys

>>45275239
>artisans are petit bourgeois
source?

>draw for free if you are a true shabbos goyim comrade

>>45278180
the workers of the world become petit bourgeois when they attain ownership of the means of production. we hammered this out earlier in the thread.

>>45279601
>but then also was otherwise made entirely unable to conventionally.pursue """"""""""""""""""""real"""""""""""""""""""""" hormones
wut
are you advocating phytoestrogens or something because they pretty much don't work at all

>>45278180
The class establishes itself to abolish itself. After communism there is no one alienated from the means of production so capitalist classes cease to exist. It's like how we don't have serfs amd peasants anymore.

>>45275308
Oh my god that's labor aristocracy. You're doing the fucking thing again. You are POSSESED by westoid ideology. Do not fucking lecture me about reading marx you larper. You are essentially swapping out income levels in place of class analysis.
>Lower class = proletarian
>Middle class equals petty bourgeois
>Upper class equals big bourgeois

See this is why I use the lgbt thread on debordy rather than here nowadays. Too many falsifiers and deniers.
Bordiga.party

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>>45279937
>borednigga
nah i'll pass

>>45279993
try not to gigaquote challenge (99% FAILED)

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>>45279915
>labor aristocracy
do you even know what this means lol

>westoid
oh its a retarded third worlders (ip based on america surely)

midwits do this shit where they pretend income has no relevance to class whatsoever despite marx and engels repeatedly defining the proletariat as RESERVELESS and PROPERTYLESS. people with considerable reserves dont have their weal and woe depend entirely on the whims of markets, retard

>Middle class equals petty bourgeois
during marx's time the middle classES included other groups like aristocrats but feudalism isnt a thing anywhere today so middle class can be used interchangeably with petit bourgeois today, moron, its literally anyone between the proletariat and the haute bourgeois

fucking read a book pseud

>>45279689
proletarians dont make their own products and then sell them wholesale dipshit, they can only sell their labor power

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>>45279993
Picrel must've made that image

>>45280073
>do you even know what this means lol
The well off contingent of the proletariat
>oh its a retarded third worlders (ip based on america surely)
Dis nigga actually thought I was a maoist third worldist cause I said westoid. No America is just currently deeply reactionary you tool.
>midwits do this shit where they pretend income has no relevance to class whatsoever
Yeah that's why petty bourgeois and labor aristocracy exist as terms.
>so middle class can be used interchangeably with petit bourgeois today
Cheka, obliterate this faggot. I'm obviously talking about the colloquial use of the term middle class here.
>fucking read a book pseud
Go ahead then recommend me a book

>>45280090
>question about artisans
>answer about proletarians
non sequitur

>>45280209
You are illiterate. They said proletarians don't do the things artisans do so they're disqualified from that category. Granted this implies a dichotomy here where if you're not one then you're the other. But seeing as we're not discussing lumpen and it's mostly about petty bourgeois vs prole I'd say that's reasonable to do in this convo.

>>45280240
artisans are neither proletarian or bourgeois. same as peasants/subsistence farmers, lumpens, and aristocrats (all of which existed and exist alongside capitalism)

interesting how no one seems to be talking about this >>45277805
pretty much confirms the plan from the start was to write a zased gluke about how "just be a feminine man" causes harm

>>45280255
OH MY GOD YOU MORON WE ARE GOING TO RAPE YOU TO DEATH

>>45271236
I actually misread this as her saying grim

>>45280392
that's really funny

I feel like if this whole comic runs it's course and shen remains
>Hehe I'm just the scrungler bungler I'm just a cis guy who likes some fem things
It's just gonna be him choosing to disregard anything the gender therapist talked to them about and repping instead
Literally no one that's crystalline and confident in that their simply cis male moided male that just like fem stuff from time to time would even feel pressed to go to literally a gender therapist to talk about gender things.... What possible gender business can you fucking discuss with a therapist that's not trans related, that's like almost the entire premise for it even being a topic of discussion to mental health professionals/counsel Jesus fucking cuck...... Bikecuck.....

>>45279937
The other week there was a thread there where someone was pinkpilling a repper with John 50, DIY resources, and transsexual theory while shitting on theyfabs and sneed politics. I think the repper was posting later about John 50 breaking them.

>>45280499
He’s gonna snap eventually but probably pull a Simon Hanselmann and never address it

>>45280303
mindbroken

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>>45274431
>It will be part of the comic at the very end.

...

>Audrey looks at the reader
>I am Shen, folks
>Actually this is a real story
>The story of coming to accept that...
>I'm a hecking cute trans girl
>and this is my trans boyfriend chud (pointing at Val now being called Valentine or something)
>irl photo face reveal or not showing Shen, now Audrey and her chud transmasc bf

...


>Then gets her bike stolen again

>>45278043
She has a huge bbc

>>45281080
cinema

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>>45281080

>>45278583
God forbid people exercise

>>45281080
It's the story of a curse.

>>45278573
>"there will no longer be any classes!"
>is now the ruling class
>does nothing to change that

>>45279937
>debordy
whats that?

>>45281345
The site that was linked on the line immediately proceeding that line.

What's a song Audrey would sing at karaoke?

>>45283062
Creep - Radiohead

>>45283093
Musical Transients already made me think of that song in a dysphoria subtext, so... yeah, maybe

>>45280090
>>45280240
I have to wonder how relevant the concept of petite bourgeois is.

Is the impoverished guy who lives in a 3rd world country and who repairs shoes for a living petite bourgeois?

Even in the usa, an artist who works independently, typically is worse off financially than many white collar employees. They don't have much social or financial power.

>>45281247
people should TAKE HRT CISMOID

>>45283062
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAC-onWPMB0
It's not to anyone in particular, he just likes the song

>>45283204
The entireity of the american working class is possessed by petite bourgeois ideology. Many so called socialists can only dream so far as social well welfare with smaller businesses.

>we cannot simply improve capitalism, like we've done before but can't now for some reason
>no, we need to abolish it entirely and give all of the power to a giant tool who will call every one of us degenerate before lining us up against a wall

>>45275239
>create a piece of art by yourself
>sell it for money
>this is somehow bad according to communist retards

>>45285977
it just has to be contained and separated entirely from (or used only to help support in non-critical ways) social layers like guaranteed equitable access to healthcare, housing, food, etc and quality of life

Audrey, in the morning on a work day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v6flnaehxo

>>45285977
You forget the giga

>>45277912
people were suspecting that hes in some kind of genspect conversion therapy where he accepts that hes a feminine man.

i think thats a driver of the speculation and egg memes

>>45278583
yes no maybe. i think some of it helped. i probly would have coperepped more and harder without it. cardio onions and spearmint probably saved a few years of bloated leathery hairy skin development. unless i was already low t but will never know

>>45281247
idk it just made me really frustrated. girls complain about how men gain like crazy on T and can eat a million calories. but like i hit all my goals that id been trying to get for years and years in like a couple months with stable levels

>>45278636
this is happening to someone i know and i made sure they got diy in their hands and afiak they are still repping bc they want to do it 'the right way'

technically it happened to me too but i actually went for cptsd depression and anxiety not gd, its just all those things were caused by gd and neither me or the shrinks could tell.