Two innate enemies, two completely irreconcilable sides, and each must be taken on his own terms. They each raise crucial questions and answer them in reverse terms, both are prophets of a new humanity, the future was their fundamental concern. Both were perhaps motivated by the same thing, the suffering going on around them: Nietzsche’s dislike of Mileid (a German calque of “compassion” often translated as pity, although it is the compassion, that is to suffer another’s suffering, which Nietzsche examines) sprung out of a logic that it actually multiplies suffering to the point that life is unlivable. That is, Nietzsche was possibly so overwhelmed by his own compassion, that he said to himself, “This is hell on earth, this cannot possibly be natural or healthy, man in ages past was not so sensitive, he could be immensely cruel with a clear consciece–this compassion is a malady, a psychological illness that we all suffer from sometimes like spleen and it must be rooted out by some extreme act of love or magnanimity and then forgotten.” This realization furthered Nietzsche’s questioning of all values that had been taken for granted.The greatest value that Nietzsche challenged was truth itself. While he initially felt a tension between truth and faith and extolled mathematics on this basis, he came to regard truth as lacking any value in and of itself, and only holding value where it was useful: what is the point or even the meaning of truth outside this context? In a way, then, Nietzsche, presaged pragmaticism, or at least the fascist form of the epistemology>Pragmatism was advocated by Papini the Italian fascist philosopher and exerted a powerful influence over Mussolini. Under fascist rule pragmatism means that whatever view of events you can persuade the world to accept is “truth.” Have supreme confidence in your own version of affairs, trust your own optimistic presentation, insist on it, get it accepted. It is as true as any other. It is the only truth if you can get it believed in preference to any other version of the facts.-A Textbook of Marxist Philosophy, Soviet publicationContinued in next post
>>25293188You see, while the protestant Reformation was largely a manifestation of the rising capitalist class, when capitalism entered its last stage, imperialism, which is extremely concentrated, advanced and socialized capitalism (Lenin describes its unique feature in detail), it needed yet another value system. The theory of evolution was ideological influential at this time, on both capitalists and Marxists. Marxists emphasized that biological complexity increases primarily due to cooperation–after all, even these organisms we see competing and eating each other, are made up of countless cells, they emerge from the cooperation of organisms and if such organisms did not collectivize, no higher consciousness would be possible. Social Darwinists (I mean the ideology named after Darwin, not his methodology) by contrast emphasized competition, as ruthless as possible, between individual organisms. We find this ideology espoused by Wolf Larsen. This proved to be the groundwork for the post-protestant ideology of capitalism, and only received a setback under the New Left, which was, we now know, funded by the CIA as a counter to Marxism. But the setback was never really there: all these capitalist organizations and captains of industry who signalled being New Left, flocked to Trump.Following this pedigree, “neoreactionary” thinkers like BAP or Yarvin brought the new ideology of capitalism. The neoreactionary movement, according to Yarvin, holds that most of humanity would be best off spending all their free time in a virtual reality of porn or media, leaving everything else to the ruling class. This is considered completely very humane and reasonable in line with the Nietzschean idea of truth, although at odds with the Marxist:>Knowledge is a means of adaptation to experience not in proportion to its pleasantness and hopefulness, but in proportion as it dispels illusions, be they ever so grateful and inspiring.-ibid.Therefore each side is in a race against the other: one for a vanguard party, obviously not publicly prepared or armed (Castro had 82, most were killed, but he won), but still preparing, and the other to concentrate all technology to their use for surveillance and a new virtual world and make such a vanguard party impossible.America went off the gold standard but only because their currency is effectively backed by oil now through the petrodollar. My expectation is that this will all come to a head as soon as America loses the petrodollar and their currency is no longer backed by anythingPlease excuse the patchiness of what I tried to convey, I already extended my OP into two posts, a crime against brevity and an imposition upon your attention.
PostscriptIt should come as no surprise that Cuba has a better literacy and math level than America, and that North Korea does very well in math (presumably literacy as well but unlike math that has not been independently verified). Socialism has historically almost always strived to educate and uplift the working class, which actually affects how their brain is wired. There is a good article in Jacobin about that, Politics After Literacy. You can read it for free herehttps://samkriss.substack.com/p/reading-is-magicBy contrast capitalism is increasingly hostile to a literate working class because people with literacy and numeracy are much more difficult to market to, in part because of their brain structure.
>>25293188>each must be taken on his own termsNo. Each must answer to the world around them through Empiricism. Not reading the rest of this after such a weak premise.
for me one of the important insights of marxism is alienation, which i think of as something like: our power to labour in order to create the world now appears to us purely as a power to compete in the market - to keep pace with other workers doing what the market wants, to look for new ways to accelerate and optimise the flow of capital through the market, or to find new areas which could be marketised and into which capital could then flow. these rational decisions on the part of individuals connect in a literally algorithmic way, individuals train themselves to act like nodes in a planetary-scale neural network; capital id literally an AI, and this is what marxists say when they describe capital as thr subject of history, the mind driving history - in the absence of a self-conscious worker movement, it's now the only subject left. this ai, through its human nodes, creates the future world; capitalists think that they themselves are willing this world into existence, since in order to become capitalists, they had to think like capital, they had to make their deepest desire the desire to acceperate the ratebof return, just as mr beast became no. 1 on youtube by devoting all his mind to understanding the youtube algorithm. when, eg, moldbug talks about masses and elites, he's taking the world that capital has created, the different subjectivities it requires in the circuit of accumulation and investment, and viewing them as essential timeless human types. so he thinks he's on the side of a nietzschean elite when really he's another puppet of capital advocating for the future capital is already in the process of creating. this is why the silicon valley view of intelligence sees us as essentially hunter-gatherers, simply playing competetive games in a world whose rules we cannot touch, except now it's the market and the compulsions of capital that appear to us as natural forces; and the ailicon valley ideology isn't about pragmatics at all, it's about a kind of sterile objectivist rationality that treats the world as preformed tokens for a competetive game of pattern matching. the marxist and communist struggle is about building new forms of collective consciousness to bust out of this algorithmic nightmare, to realise that we can build any world that we want. that to me is true nietzscheanism. the future communist science of figuring out how our individual desires and fantasies and drives get socially produced, how individuals can intervene in that process and produce themselves differently, how this must be mediated by forms of collective desire and willing that should never become rigid and cancerous as capital has - that would be a true pragmatics, the study of how we produce our own mental frameworks, with the aim not merely of critiquing, but of producing them more actively, meaningfully. by this means we would found worlds as ancient cultures once did. so i don't know if the insights of nietzsche and marx are as incompatible as you suggest.
>>25293249apologies for the many typos, i'm on my phone
>>25293249>that to me is true nietzscheanismNietzsche posits the Übermensch where Marxism posits the superorganism, the Omega Point. Nietzsche believed in a new race or even species of individuals, Marxism believes individualism comes out of society from things like language and social ideas, and that unity of humanity is what will create higher forms of intelligence as an emergent property just like unity of cells in the brain leads to a human mind
>>25293249>when, eg, moldbug talks about masses and elites, he's taking the world that capital has created, the different subjectivities it requires in the circuit of accumulation and investment, and viewing them as essential timeless human types so he thinks he's on the side of a nietzschean elite when really he's another puppet of capital advocating for the future capital is already in the process of creating.You hit the nail on the head here. We have always had hierarchies but we have not had a hierarchy in which the people on the top are supposed to be the intellectual godfathers of the lives of the plebs, the master-planners of the goods they consume, except under capitalism and state-capitalist dictatorships.> the marxist and communist struggle is about building new forms of collective consciousness to bust out of this algorithmic nightmare, to realise that we can build any world that we want.You know Rosa Luxemburg's slogan, 'Socialism OR Barbarism' - it's an either/or. When I read these retarded posts about hating blacks and women or the genetic inferiority of the poor, and when I see in real life how callous people have become to the suffering of others, and especially when I see these traits in myself, I fear we have irrevocably chosen the latter. That won't stop me from trying but I feel pretty bleak. Great post overall and made my afternoon.
>>25293213>It should come as no surprise that Cuba has a better literacy and math level than America, and that North Korea does very well in mathOP is a delusional communist spamming garbage and pseud non-sense like this. Like Marx, OP is a lazy bum who doesn't work and blames his mediocrities in life on people other than himself.
>>25293278I don't know anything about you but given that you seem to spend 12 hours a day insulting leftists on /lit/ I think it is reasonable to assume that you are unemployed and overweight.
>>25293257well neither were particularly clear about what they thought the humans of the 'next step' would be. i don't think the nietzschean ubermensch has to be an aristocratic ruler nor does the marxian 'new man' have to be part of an impersonal hive mind. i think in the true unalienated world we would experience our individuality ina completely new way. each person an artist of their own life, but this would mean being caught up in all kinds of artistic movements, secret societies, worshipping at the altars of strange gods who come and go, creating, exchanging, destroying masks, identities, social functions - something very far from being a passport and a bank account and an entry in a palantir data centre, our current model of individuality, where being an individual means logging into an economic user account identitical in form and meaning to everyone else's, even if your score and inventories wildly differ. i think deleuze is the guy to read to think about this neitzschean-marxist collective-individualist production of ourselves; i've been trying to read him more recently, but it's tough going, and if ai obliterates the communist hope forever, the nothing i read will even matter.
>>25293265It amuses me that /pol/ is outraged at how the Talmud sees goyim as mostly non-human cattle to serve Jews or die for them when that is how /pol/ sees others. Marx, being very familiar with the Talmud, saw that this ideology was the same as capitalism. But like Jewish nationalists, who are dismissive amd oblivious to any victimhood but their own, /pol/ likewise mocks and is dismissive of any but their own which they in turn see as the greatest crime and evil possible.In this sense, Nietzsche was right about ressentiment: /pol/ just wants to be what they see Jews as. This is the fertile soil for the weed of opportunism which strangles class consciousness.
>>25293280You're admitting to being on /lit/ 12 hours a day here, and you're calling me unemployed. Depsite making several threats here and on /pol/. Face reality.A left wing revolution will never come, but a white revolution is coming, and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. You aren’t a communist revolutionary, you are nothing, you are too scared to hold a gun, you consume the same slop youcritique the capitalists for, you follow the same ideology that (((they))) told you was the only way to fight against what you’ve deemed evil, all you do is whine and complain on the internet with no change ever in sight. You're a pussy and a larper.
>>25293285The Übermensch for Nietzsche is a race, so to speak, not one man.And the hive is the opposite of impersonal here because Marx like Hegel observes that the individual only exists because of society, his language and hugher sense of self come from social concepts, it transforms him from a regular primate into a human individual. The individual consciousness is raised by the unity, not damaged by it, so long as humans are united by growth of the mind instead of united as livestock kept stupid for the sake of the class exploiting them.
>>25293292it glows to bait users into talking about their guns or revolutionary intent
>>25293295Way to admit you're an unemployed larper calling for revolution online, just shitting up /lit/ with threads just as worthless as you
>>25293302
If one looks at demographics and worldwide shifts neither capitalism nor Marxism are the wave of the future. The most successful political movement on the planet right now is Salafism (and especially Salafi jihadism), which is cementing itself in much of the Middle East, Central Asia and most importantly West Africa. They have the demographic (birthrate) advantage as well when compared to socialist countries. You guys are worrying about AI-backed surveillance capitalism or a socialist revolution when an Islamist ascendancy is imminent across Africa, Asia and parts of Europe.
>>25293319Salafi jihadism reached its peak a decade or two ago. There are not currently any internationalist jihadist groups of any strength outside of Africa
>>25293249>it's about a kind of sterile objectivist rationality that treats the world as preformed tokens for a competetive game of pattern matching. Lmfao THIS. I was debating a pro-capitalist sometime around last year and he literally described reality as a video game where you have to "play by the rules" (of capitalism) and "win" it. So if you don't win it then it's entirely justified because the "rules" are the same for everyone. Btw good post anon. >>25293265I try to not let the cruelty of this world overtake me. I try the best I can despite how this world is wiring my brain.
>>25293188marx and nietzche are the same, 19th century atheism. chesterton and lewis are their opponents
>>25293188>pragmatism means that whatever view of events you can persuade the world to accept is “truth.”this is the doctrine of post humanist demonist university
>>25293356>with the power of Yahweh I banish ye!
>>25293356But Chesterton was a Distributist which is just a medieval-tinged and Catholic-friendly riff on Marxism.
>>25293265>a hierarchy in which the people on the top are supposed to be the intellectual godfathers of the lives of the plebs, the master-planners of the goods they consumethats marxism
>>25293292>Depsite making several threats here and on /pol/Nope. And I don't spend 12 hours a day here I generally spend a couple of hours here every couple of days but I see your posts littering the catalog non-stop. The most revolutionary thing I've done is get my coworkers riled up about a lack of stools to sit on.>you are too scared to hold a gunThis is unironically true. I don't like violence and have never held a gun. You on the other hand love violence and openly advocating for a racial genocide. Mods?
>>25293377>. The most revolutionary thing I've done is get my coworkers riled up about a lack of stools to sit on.Don't admit to anything. The retard might actually be a glowie.
>>25293386It's not illegal to try to organize labor or bitch about working conditions in the United States, anon. You just might get fired.
>>25293364Distributism requires Lebensraum unless it is will to expropriate everything from the wealthy
>>25293377>And I don't spend 12 hours a day here I generally spend a couple of hoursYou just said you got spent 12 hours reading people insulting you, you're a dumb>>25293386>>25293391Nigger you're not a communist revolution, you're a larperGet a job
>>25293278>Cuba has a better literacy and math level than America, and that North Korea does very well in mathit is not difficult to do a better job teaching math and literacy than the americans. american schools are designed to suppress talent and prevent learning
>>25293417Cuba and North Korea do both take most of their education system from Europe but they also spend a lot more on education. When asked why Cuba outperformed America and fellow Latin America countries so much in literacy, Castro said they mandate a ratio of one teacher for every five students.
>>252933471. Outside of Africa is a huge qualifier given that Africa is on track to be the core of the human population if demographic trends hold. On top of that the parts of Africa which are the fastest growing (the Sahel) are where the jihadists are strongest.2. These ideologies are also popular in much of the Middle East (they won in Syria) and are increasingly popular in South and Central Asia, not to mention in Muslim populations in Europe. My point is that a larger and larger share of the human population desires a Muslim theocratic state, and the areas in which the movement for such a state is strongest are the most important for the future. Thus Islamism is the ideology that will play a key role in the future, not Marxism or capitalist thought.
>>2529342412 years in school and 50 years of career, five students for one teacher, thats 5% of careers on teaching
>>25293417You're an idiot who believes the statistics of countries people flee from. You just don't live in reality, and are mentally ill.
>>252934361. In Africa is a big shift from what you were talking about before though, and there they probably have some sort of tacit U.S. backing since they are a counterweight to Wager Group and Russian amd Chinese foothold2. Julani gained control in Syria because and only because America made peace with him. He has renounced internationalist jihad and that was one requirement. He won in his crusade against Shia/Bashar but only by renouncing the internationalist Islamist crusade which opposed NATO
>>25293436>a larger and larger share of the human population desires a Muslim theocratic statehumanity was too stupid to live with a blanket ban on divorce and needs divorce to be explicitly that the man dismisses the woman with the woman taking nothing
>>25293437Yes, along with the physical reproduction of children, the educational reproduction of human beings is the most important, unless you do not want biological human beings to be mentally human beings
>>25293444Whichever ideology wins in Africa wins the future of humanity. So jihadist dominance there is a sign of their potential victory on a global scale. You seem to be thinking that Islamists are puppets/collaborators with capitalist forces but I think they are simply being cynical partners for now with an inevitable backstabbing in the future. Same way Islamists enjoyed a cozy relationship with the Iranian left before 1979 only to crush the left after the revolution.
>>25293292A "white revolution" will never come because in modern populist politics, such ethno-state fantasies are primarily a tool of distraction to allow them to get away with tax cuts for mega corporations and increased funding to Israel. Thats why populist parties will never do anything about immigration except complain about immigration and maybe do some symbolic gestures of cruelty, because they only keep getting votes as long as immigration remains an issue. Hence in the US, the only thing done is constant cruelty to random underpaid farmhands that have fuckall to do with anything while the CIA funds drug cartels in Mexico.
>>25293475I think Islamists generally depend on a state partner for support. Al-Qaeda had the Taliban and to a lessee extent Iran until they had a falling out over Iraq. ISIS did well because their nucleus was originally an extension of AQ coupled with the remnants of the Iraqi state intelligence apparatus. However once those elements were destroyed, they gradually became less and less effectively.
>>25293507>Wanting to keep foreigners out of your country is a psyop by capitalists>Brown people don't do crime or sell drugs, it's the CIA and the police being racist for arresting themNo one falls for this shit besides low IQ browns like you
>>25293613Mass immigration is a reflection the capitalist demand for the reserve industrial army without which capitalism cannot function. You will never and can never end it within capitalism because capitalism has always supported and always must
>>25293411>>25293613>Muh unemployed >Muh troon>Muh brownYou are a retard and will always remain a retard all your life. Ascendence through knowledge and wisdom is permanently closed off to the likes of you.
>>25293292A white revolution against white capitalists, or just non-white capitalists?
>>25293973Against communists
>>25293834You communist retards don't even know how to make a sandwich for less than 20 dollars, but you call others retarded. Lmao.
>>25293249>really he's another puppet of capital advocating for the future capital is already in the process of creatingI don't think that makes him a puppet. He is an explicit ideology of capitalism. The nrx movement envisions increased privatization leading to "techno feudalism" and a world where the masters of capital are lords of the realm and pass all laws and judgements over their turf directly. This is considered a good thing for the same reasons Hoppe says absolutely monarchy is, which he regarded making the entire state the private property of one man and thus paradoxically more libertarian in a capitalist sense than liberalism is, and here he differs from Rothbard who liked the French Revolution. Although there is an important rift between Land and the nrx, versus Hoppe, in that Hoppe like Rothbard hates Israel. Nrx is extremely positive toward Israel and sees opposition to it as innately communist. They have fully accepted Lenin's argument that imperialism is the final form of capitalism, and embrace Israel as the extension of the capitalist colonial enterprise and therefore the vanguard of capitalism. Kind of a mirror of Mao, who said Palestine and Taiwan are the two gateways to Asia and must ultimately be the flashpoints of imperialist capitalism
>>25293475Iran has remained mostly aligned with the left as a bloc of states. They didn't crush the left, they're just socially conservative. They absolutely dip into leftist discourse and see themselves aligned with a leftist, anti-colonial struggle in a much broader way than Salafi groups do.
>>25293368Read the April Theses instead of being a Pragerist
The most remarkable thing about Marx and Nietzsche is how similar they both were. It was the exact same kind of lie told in a slightly distinct way for different types of men. Both wrote long, rambling works about how upjumped middle-class strivers like themselves should be the real masters of society while what little remained of the Occident's age-old traditions and aristocracy should be swept away.
>>25295113The patricians made their fortunes by lending money at interest to the plebians and foreclosing on their land and families when they couldn't pay. This is the heart and soul of aristocratic tradition
>>25295115They earned their land by burying a battle-axe in the faces of men like you. They were brutal, yes, but unlike you also thoroughly honest. Indeed they were famously so inexperienced with your profession of huckstering that they needed to keep one of your kind around as a court Jew to do it for them. Small wonder that one of your prophets was a Jew himself and the other was one of the 19th century's most outspoken philosemites.
>>25295113>upjumped middle-class strivers like themselves should be the real masters of society while what little remained of the Occident's age-old traditions and aristocracy should be swept away.Give me one quote where Marx days this. (Hard mode : no shitty 80IQ rightoid misinterpretations)
>>25295127What the fuck are you talking about, the plebs gained political power because they refused to fight wars for the patricians otherwise. The patricians were usurious parasites, the plebs were the warriors and the farmers
>>25295134>Erm chuddie please point out exactly where Marx said he was a resentful communist psychopath who liked killing people. Bc if you can't I win btw.Lol. And btw adding "-oid" to the end of a word doesn't automatically make it a biting insult.>>25295137>plebs gained political power because they refused to fight wars for the patricians oI was hoping to bait a post out of you that was even dumber and more historically inept than the last one, and all I have to say is lmao. I can only imagine where your feeble brown mind got this information, but I don't care to.
>>25295144>Roman historians are brown
>>25295144>No quoteI accept your concession rightoid.
>>25295144Btw notice how the retarded rightoid went straight from "middle class upjumpers" to ",genocide gorrillions" because the spergy retarded mind can only spit out slogans at bullet speed without any rhyme or coherence. Anti-marxism is an irrational position. Therefore anti-marxists must ALWAYS type with their brains shut down
>>25295127>seizing the means of production by killing your enemies is heroic>NO NO NOT LIKE THAT
>>25294378>They didn't crush the left, they're just socially conservative>All Marxist organizations were heavily suppressed/forced into exile after the revolution ?
marixsts love reducing religion to ideology then being baffled when religious zealots take control of society
>>25293292Aggressively retarded post
>>25293475>>25293475Humanity is about to get beheaded by the posthuman technological revolution so idk what the fuck you are on about. 1 bioweapon is all it will take to depopulate Africa.
>>25295267Marxism accounts for ideological zealots
>>25295309perhaps some retarded scholastic commentator does, but in fact marxists are shocked time and time again when the working class stops buying their endless disappointments and falls into the hands of religion.
>>25295267This kind of idiocy is what happens when you comment on what "Marxists" think without knowing the first damn thing about Marx's philosophy. Marx pointed out very well in "On the Jewish Question" that every religion is not just a set ideologies but also has a material basis. And thus he eternally btfo'ed Stirner and the others.
>>25295317>falls into the hands of religion.This too is covered in "On the Jewish Question"
>>25295317Marxists are not shocked by false consciousness
>>25295411True, but not for the reason that you think. The true reason being, of course, they they themselves suffer from it. They are quite familiar, very much at home in the phenomenon.
>>25295357>>25295358>>25295411ive read more marx and marxists than the lot of you combined. your sophisticated pomp doesn't impress me. it only tokens your immaturity.
it is a crippled mind that answers universals with particulars. and the proof, is that it is what christians do best.
>>25295515For (You)
>>25295521right back at you sport. quiet down when your western teachers are speaking.
