>>25297252
I dunno. Does reading even make sense if you're blind from birth?

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Now do the same test with something most people actually interact with every day, like their phone or a computer mouse.

Why does mental imagery matter? I never use it when reading

>>25297252
How the fuck did someone take the effort to make this to then get 2 and 3 mixed up

>>25297278
the image was made by a 5

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>When people who claim to be 1 try and draw a bike
Whats the matter, I thought you see it clearly in your mind so why is it so hard to actually draw what you see

>>25297263
An apple a day bro

>>25297290
They see it clearly, incorrectly. Kinda like how people think Pikachu has a black tip on his tail. You're not gonna remember the details if you've never paid attention to them.

>>25297303
If you don't remember the details of something then you aren't #1

>>25297322
Having a photographic imagination does not require or imply having a photographic memory. These are separate skills (that can work in tandem)

>>25297252
Look, I can clearly see an apple. But I refuse to believe that anyone is seeing a full-color 3D apple like it's some perfect video game render.

>>25297252
I'm not on this scale, when I think of an apple, I can see it vividly even when I open my eyes, and I can take a bite out of it, the apple is real the moment I concieve of it.

>>25297369
Skill issue.

>>25297377
If you have this skill, you better be using it to imagine people naked with 100% accuracy. Do not waste this gift on apples anon.

>>25297369
What's the difference? When you see the apple, are you not able to imagine it rotating or falling?

>>25297252
5 here
I enjoy books

>>25297395
The difference is the photorealism. As in it looks just as real as real life.

>>25297290
>why is it so hard to actually draw what you see
Because if you never memorized what something looks like from a mechanical perspective, there's gonna be a lot of blanks for imagination to fill in and it won't necessarily do so stably. Not only does imagination ignore mechanical sense if you're not mechanically inclined, but it only won't necessarily stand still for you to get it all down, assuming it's not getting dissipated by the cognitive effort of trying needed to break it down visually when you lack any art experience.

>>25297272
>Why does mental imagery matter? I never use it when reading
Well, what do you read? If something is dense with vivid imagery, it will feel like boring filler to you and you'll develop a taste for works and topics inherently scarce on visual detail.

>If something is dense with vivid imagery, it will feel like boring filler to you and you'll develop a taste for works and topics inherently scarce on visual detail.
I suppose you're right, I read philosophy and am staunchly against novels or any form of fictitious literature in general. They all seem too boring for my own taste.

>>25297252
Aphantasia is a made up condition by people who do not understand how visualization works.

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Is there any good infernalist starter? Which is not minions or a build another ascendancy just does better?

Those who visualize well can imagine lacking that ability easily. The people getting confused about aphantasia are usually aphantasics.

>>25297252
When I discovered I had aphantasia, everything sort of made sense.

>can't really discuss contradiction
>can't come up with solutions to problems unless someone showed how to do it before
>skipped most descriptions in books because I don't understand how everything comes together
>just stuck to dialogue
>watched movies and skipped most of the worldbuilding part because I don't understand why any of it matters
>can't come up with explanations to why things are good or bad, just have a nudge that they may be either
>when I'm presented with ideas, I truly care how popular they are because I will not care unless they are popular
>I often mocked people, but I was never the chief in the mocking or very creative about it, I just let the other kids and people point out who is weak, then helped them pile on them

I am not sure if I am an NPC or if I am just psychopath.

>>25297431
>The difference is the photorealism
It's actually better than photorealism cause we can actually zoom and enhance.

>>25297483
/thread

>>25297431
>As in it looks just as real as real life.
It does actually work just like real life, complete with your brain doing the same shit it does with vision where anything you're not focusing on isn't actually in as much detail until you pull back or move your focus, but your brain still interprets it as both there and normal looking.

If I had to say there's one major difference, other than being able to freely manipulate what you're looking at, it's that for shit you don't have memorized, consistency is an issue, so it sorta turns into those AI videos where it's just predicting what comes next based on what came before.

As an example, if you try to rotate an especially asymmetrical apple 360 degrees, then by the time it gets all the way back around, if you didn't bother to memorize the picture in your head, it will still be an apple, but it won't look exactly the same. The same issue happens with moving your point of focus, not just moving the object within your focus. Basically anything that gets unloaded from memory has to be dynamically regenerated which can result in differences, with those differences being more likely and more drastic the more intricate or unfamiliar what you're imagining is.

>>25297252
why did they swap the 2nd and 3rd images?

>>25297263
My phone is an apple

When I see an apple it is can be as "photographic" but also in the style of various paintings or sculptures or strange mirrors

>>25297252
let me put it this way, there's a reason why the autistic "i only read non fiction" type exists.

>>25297252
I refuse to believe these tests are done correctly.
Having vivid hallucinations while awake is a sign of significant brain damage. Nobody actually SEES the apple.
They instead picture it in their mind's eye.
I can rotate and fit together parts in my head, but I don't actually SEE them because I've not got aphantasia or whatever.

>>25297483
>>25297606
People who say this are 5s
t. 5 who also used to say this

>>25297906
Anon, you're not supposed to vividly hallucinate while awake.
What you are supposed to be able to do is picture shapes, and fit them together in a usable manner.

>>25297909
A lot of people can't "see" anything, but are still perfectly capable of accurate spatial and visual reasoning (i.e. fitting things together in a usable manner), and this is where the confusion arises. Aphantasics, particularly high IQ ones, wrongly assume they can't possibly have it because they are good at shape rotating tasks.

The way I would describe it is that everyone has a GPU of varying degrees of effectiveness, but not everyone has their monitor turned on, and there is little to no correlation between the two.

Sure, but even if you don't have that meme diagnosis, it still requires some effort to visualize the words you're reading. Especially when the author keeps describing things so vaguely at first then suddenly minute details a few pages later. You have to constantly mold the images in your head and it's a pretty good exercise.

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>>25297902
I have aphantasia but when I was on acid I could see these patterns. They were not literally in front of me, but I could imagine them incredibly detailed.
I believe that normal people can visualise things all the time

So do people with 5 not even see anything in their dreams? This sounds fucking made up. There is no way you are THAT much of NPC.

>>25298009
My assumption is that I am a 5, but I still have visual dreams. Whether there are ultra-5s that don't have visual dreams I don't know, but there are people who claim to not dream at all.

>>25298018
Can you recall the dreams visually afterwards? You probably are not a real 5 if so.

>>25298021
Not sure what you mean by recall them visually. I could describe what I saw but I when remembering I don't see anything and I can't conjure a projection of what I saw onto the back of my eyelids.

>>25298045
I can perfectly recall the visuals of my dreams quite easily like they are normal memories (not the whole dream obviously) you dont have that at all?

>>25298098
Again it depends what you mean by recall the visuals. If you asked me to draw a picture of my high school chemistry classroom that I haven't been in for 15 years, I could do a accurate job of it, so clearly the information is all in there, I just can't bring it forth in such a way that would ever be described as "seeing".

>>25298045
>>25298110
This is so bizzare to me. You would just describe or draw something you "remember" intuitively then? Or you remember a description of the visuals you saw in your dreams? Both would be bizzare to me - the former would suggest that you are consciously disconnected from some part of your mind that others like myself have conscious access to, and the latter would suggest that while dreaming you're engaged in a constant process of translating (at least unconsciously) the visuals into verbal descriptions which is something I do not do automatically, ever. I'm very curious which you think is going on. Perhaps it's both. Perhaps this is a left vs right brain thing.

>>25297943
If you have dreams at all then you don't have aphantasia and everyone has dreams, it's that simple

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>>25298919
>the former would suggest that you are consciously disconnected from some part of your mind that others like myself have conscious access to
This is what I think it is. I made the GPU vs monitor analogy earlier in the thread, all the processing is going on its just not being output as visuals anywhere. If we had no visual memory at all we'd be walking around thinking we're seeing everything for the first time, wouldn't be able to recognise faces etc. Its likely not massively different from what normal people are doing or there wouldn't be people who have it without realising.

>https://web.archive.org/web/20260104211447/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/11/03/some-people-cant-see-mental-images-the-consequences-are-profound
This is the article that made me realise I likely have it. Particularly the bit I've screenshot. Every one of these threads there are people behaving just like the scientists, insisting that people who claim to see things are just misunderstanding what visualisation means. Its what I thought until I did further research.

To anyone whos confused about whether people are lying about what truly having 1 means let me explain. In this chart im a 5 yet ive always been able to intuitively know what im trying to picture in my head yet i cannot see it. For a while I assumed people who claimed to be a 1 were just romanticizing what they believed they saw in their head because it could be impossible for me to be a 5 since im not retarded so they must be wrong. However one time recently after seeing this chart on another platform I did consider the fact that I was able to perfectly hear sounds in my head, whether they were full songs or just white noise i heard throughout the day I could imagine it in my head and it would be as though I was listening to it in real life, I then looked up if there is a condition similar to aphantasia for sound (which there is called Anauralia) and it made me realise some people's brains are just better at picturing things than mine.

>>25297290
Top right is so whimsicly optimistic.
>>25297336
>These are separate skills (that can work in tandem)
Oh so they could probably draw it right if it was one of those two-seater bikes? They did seem to make the chain overlong here.

>>25299058
Is the fact that you can recreate the sounds of the music yourself not a pretty key diffrence here though? Do these Anarualia people forget a song the second it stops playing?

>>25299072
I don't forget what a bicycle looks like the moment I stop seeing it yet I cant picture it in my mind. I'd assume for them it works similarly but with sound

>>25298009
Aphantasia isn't associate with an inability to dream. They can also hallucinate. It's not the same shit.

>>25297252
I have aphantasia. I mainly like reading stories for the plot or for the symbolism written by the author. But yeah for me it just feels like I'm reading words. I was always scared as a kid that I couldn't get into books like the other kids cause I couldn't visualize it. But now I just focus more on the aspects I can control/interpret and that's how I find my enjoyment.

>>25297451
nta, but images themselves are empty - the meaning generated between associations is what the content of a book actually is. A flower is a flower, so what? A regular authour might appeal to a field of flowers in the springtime, and how it reminds some character of their mother's love or something to colour a certain vibe. A great authour will use the image in a new set of associations, like a field of vaginas, etc.

>>25297568
>>when I'm presented with ideas, I truly care how popular they are because I will not care unless they are popular
Is this a real person writing this post?

>>25297252
Can someone who is a 5 enjoy poetry? I'm asking because the girl I like has aphantasia and I wanted to gift her a poetry book.

>>25297263
You need to eat some fucking fruit my dude

>>25297451
I have aphantasia, and it really depends on how the author does imagery. If it's just a well defined description, that's pretty meh, but a good author uses his descriptions of the world to reflect and reinforce the thrust of his work.

Visual detail describing something complex or meaningful is more important than visual detail on it's own.

>>25297985
Same here. Plus I sometimes visualize right before I fall asleep. That shit can jump scare you when you're used to nothing but a black void.

>>25301176
>I'm asking because the girl I like has aphantasia
if you're not hitting you better start looking elsewhere bucko.

For me, i can be anywhere between 1 and 5 depending on my minset, time of day, stress, how often i have read.

Before falling asleep, my imagination is most vivid unless i have been drinking or something.

Imagination often requires practice like most things

>>25299058
You got it right. Many people convince themselves they are a 1 because it's "cool" in their heads to be better than other people at something that doesn't take skill or effort. Same as people claiming they have an IQ of 140 because they took some stupid online test.

I am a 1 and 90% of my thinking and reasoning is purely visual to the point where, when I think of the idea of a kiss, I see a catalogue of images related to kissing, all of them superimposed onto each other and I have to actually focus on a specific image if I want to explore the concept further. It ranges from a simple image of lips touching to the moment of my first kiss so detailed that I can get lost into it like I am watching a movie scene.

I think a better way to test for it would be asking people if they are capable of jerking off to memories of past sexual experiences or imagination alone. For me watching a video, even if I am the one who recorded it, doesn't get even remotely close to the insane level of detail I see when I jerk off to my own memories, and sometimes I even insert various fetishes and stuff that didn't happen but I see it so clearly and with such a detail that it might as well have happened.

It's hilarious how full of cope & seethe these threads always are. That said, thinly veiled off-topic bait

>>25301321
First day on 4jizz?

>>25301336
I wish it were. No, I've been seeing this one on repeat for half a decade, at least.

>>25297878
underrated

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Only reply to this post if you can change the voice of your internal dialogue.

I usually stick with GladOS, but sometimes I switch to the Overmind if I want a male voice.

>>25301348
Lots of lonely people here. Just getting a response atll makes you le epic troll. Low standards.

when i done ketamine i have been able to create insane 3d visualisations with my eyes closed

i think it’s partially cos it slows the brain down enough to focus on things properly

>>25297568
It sounds like aphantasia is just another symptom of you being extremely stupid, genuinely

>>25301319
I'm probably a 1 or 1.5 and I have a confirmed IQ of at least 135 tested by a serious irl test that I paid for and was accepted into Mensa.

That being said, all my thinking is verbal. There's a constant stream of words happening in my head. I can turn it off and become a visual thinker only with great effort. A lot of times I feel that the words are slower than would be ideal, and when I switch to visual thinking it seems faster, but I've never been able to switch for more than a few minutes.
For example if I'm planning out what to do, I'll imagine the words laying out a plan, in fully correct English, which is much slower than imagining a flash of imagery of me doing each thing in sequence.

>>25301359
god i miss being 15