You have to be utterly retarded to think this translation is a "feminist re-imagining". Either that or you didn't read it. It's actually a very literal translation. Is the average right-winger too fucking stupid to understand how translation work works?
Take your meds, sweaty.
>>25297279Have you ever translated Greek?
>>25297273she admitted to putting emphasis on slavery. she removed lyricism from many parts of the translation. most of all it just doesn't need to be retranslated, and things that are produced now automatically have a dose of the pozz in them. I'd invite you to go watch a few videos on this topic but I know you would never watch them, and there is in fact nothing anyone could do or say or show that would change your mind. so how about you just fuck off and die?OP is a fag. picrel
>>25297273>It‘s actually a very literal translation. In the sense of asking 2007 era google translate to parse The Odyssey, reducing it to the reading level of a third grader, then scrubbing it for 2026 sensibilities.
>>25297374>I'd invite you to go watch a few videos on this topicEmbarrassing
Why are communists so ashamed of their own handiwork? If you want to re-write the Odyssey so that Odysseus is made out to be the bad guy then just own it, don't come crying here because the chuddies made you mad.
>>25297374>I'd invite you to go watch a few videos on this topicwho should I trust, an academic who fluently reads homeric greek or some retarded vtuber streamer. Hard one>Odysseus is made out to be the bad guy the romans thought he was the bad guy, it's part of the reason why they thought virgil was superior to homer -- homer too amoral, odysseus too deceitful, whereas aeneas was virtuous, upright, etc. you will not believe me when I say this and you will get very upset because the only knowledge you have of the classics are le heckin based glitchwave jpgs
>>25297439Whats embarrassing about getting information from videos?
>>25297637>they thought virgil was superior to homer Which romans
>>25297677propertius, servius, especially macrobius's saturnalia, where large chunks of his argument for virgil's superiority boils down to "aeneas is the ideal stoic trad roman and odysseus caves to his desires"
>>25297694It's a dialectical evolution in a recognition of the need for logos to rule and for man to be ordered to his ultimate telos. This isn't complete until the West's ultimate epic, the Commedia. Western civilization was complete when Dante put his pen down and everything else has been graceless decline.Also, objectively: Paradiso > Purgatorio > Inferno > Aeneid > Iliad > Odyssey.
>>25297280No. Have you?
>>25297637This
>>25297719No. I just discovered Homeric Greek was a thing
>complicated
>>25297719Yes I have. I haven't translated Homeric Greek as its a bit beyond me but I have translated latter Greek.
>>25297273If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, says to everyone who'll hear that it is a duck...
>>25297273Why would I ever read this translation? There's multiple highly regarded classic translations. I've read Fagles, and one day when I wish to re-read Odyssey I'll read Lattimore. It has never once crossed my mind to even THINK ABOUT reading this translation. If you've even considered it, I fear for your intellectual capacity.
>>25298052>Why would I ever read this translationIt’s in a humble iambic pentameter and sounds pleasant. If I wanted a tradeoff between faithfulness to original and poetry I would read Fagles. If I wanted accuracy I would read Lattimore. If I wanted the grandeur of Homer I would read Pope.
>>25297374The poem itself has a long narrative by the swineherd about how he was ripped from his family and sold into slavery
just learn homeric greek and read the original the way homer wrote it down
>>25298156ναὶ δὴ Βάτραχε δῖε ἔπος κατὰ μοῖραν ἔειπες!
>>25298156I’m trying but it’s hard
>>25298199You know what else is hard?
>>25297273This post glows so hard, that the ISS can see it as it goes around the Earth.>>25297637>the romans thought he was the bad guyNo, they thought he was outdated, considering the story was hundreds of years old for the Roman Empire. Even Plato was bitching about Odysseus being a whiny bitch, and thought that our heroes should be perfect.They thought Virgil was superior, because Virgil was trying to be "Homer For The Romans". No shit they liked Virgil more. He was pandering to them.
>>25297374Tpbp
>>25298114then she doesn't need to emphasize it, retard>>25297450they can't help it, they're compelled to bullshit.The foremost pillar of leftism is untruth. every claim leftists make is a deceit: a lie, a strategic half truth, an oversimplification, a deliberate misinterpretation, or outright ignorance.
>>25297280yes
>>25297637What do the romans have to do with translating Homer? This isn't the Aeneid. The Romans seething about Ulysses has no bearing on a discussion of a Homer translation, unless the translation is by a classical Roman.
>>25298856the greeks also had a complicated view of odysseus. pindar despised him. antisthenes, student to socrates, compared him unfavourably to the simpler achilles. in fact his name, odysseus, literally translates to someone people bear a grudge against or dislike.
>>25297273>Either that or you didn't read it.Bingo
Emily Wilson's translation is bad. And her interviews prove that she's stupid.
>>25299125I thought it meant nobody
>>25299321he tells the polyphemus his name is ‘nobody’ so when he tells the other cyclops ‘nobody hurt me’ they leave him alone.
>>25297273Don’t call me a retard rude bitch. I’m more feminist than you’ll ever be
>>25298093>If I wanted the grandeur of Homer I would read Pope.what, pope’s odyssey?
>>25297273Two separate AI chatbots recommended it when I asked about Odyssey translations so that's enough for me to avoid it like the plague.
>>25299398? why did you ask a chatbot in the first place then
Okay so "most slammin'" is doing a lot of work here, and honestly the answer depends on what kind of slam you're after. Let me break down the heavy hitters: The BangersEmily Wilson (2017) — The current vibe-shifter. First woman to translate it into English, and she went with iambic pentameter at the exact same line count as the Greek original. Lean, propulsive, modern without being cringe. Famously opens with "Tell me about a complicated man." If you want something readable, fast, and ethically thoughtful (she doesn't soften how the enslaved women are treated), this is the one.Robert Fagles (1996) — The crowd-pleaser. Muscular, dramatic free verse that reads aloud beautifully. The Ian McKellen audiobook is legitimately incredible. If you want cinematic and sweeping, Fagles slaps.Richmond Lattimore (1965) — The purist's pick. Tries to preserve the Greek hexameter rhythm and word order. Slower, statelier, more "Homeric" feeling. Slams in a stone-tablet kind of way. The Cult PicksStanley Lombardo (2000) — Stripped-down, punchy, almost cinematic. Reads like a war movie script. The Cyclops scene goes hard.Christopher Logue's War Music — Okay this is the Iliad not the Odyssey, but if you want to know what a truly unhinged, electrifying Homer translation looks like, Logue's is the wildest ride in English. Sadly he never did the Odyssey. The ClassicsRobert Fitzgerald (1961) — Lyrical, elegant, slightly old-fashioned now but gorgeous. The version many boomers grew up on.Alexander Pope (1725-26) — Heroic couplets. Not really "Homer" anymore, more like Pope cosplaying Homer, but as English poetry it absolutely rips.My pick for maximum slam:If you've never read it: Wilson. If you want to hear it: Fagles (Ian McKellen audiobook). If you want to feel ancient: Lattimore. If you want chaotic energy: Lombardo.Wine-dark seas await.
>>25298856>What do the romans have to do with translating Homer?>>25297450 claimed that the translation makes odysseus out to be the bad guy, as if this was a new, shocking approach from le ebil wimminz n sheit, but "odysseus is a shithead" is a reading of the poem as old as the romans>>25298554>no, they thought he was outdatedand part of the reason they thought he was outdated was his morals/ethics, which they considered to be primitive and undeveloped in comparison to them>They thought Virgil was superior, because Virgil was trying to be "Homer For The Romans"yes, agreed. what I'm saying is part of why they thought Virgil was superior was because they thought Virgil was more moral than Homer, which is the point I'm making
>>25297374What translations of the Greek classics are least pozzed/PC? I want to avoid that shit as much as possible
>>25299422I asked a general question along the lines of "How long is the Odyssey and what should a reader be familiar with before reading it?" and it took the initiative to recommend Emily Wilson even though that wasn't even strictly part of my question.
>>25299960great - so you asked some chatbot abt homer of your own accord.your main objection towards EW was chatgpt yet you’re ostensibly someone who uses chatbots. there’s an old expression about having your cake and eating it. you can’t be the guy who rejects AI answers wholesale, then approach it with textual questions & somehow pivot.
>>25299429Reading this post caused unfathomable rage
>>25300000Right, I use it for what it is, and if I ask it about Homer, and it spits out some recommendation for a modern feminist reworking of an ancient classic, I confirm two things, that the chatbot is a corporate HR sanitized entity and that Wilson is the type of translator a corporate HR sanitized entity would recommend.
>>25300064>Right, I use it for what it is, and if I ask it about Homerexactly - so either it is a useful oracle or >enough for me to avoid it like the plagueyou can’t have it both ways i’m afraid!
>>25300099It provides information. The information, when evaluating merit, is inverse to what it says it is. How is this complicated for you?
>>25300000I don't care about the argument you're having but >quintschecked
>>25300118>complicatedlol>i asked google and it disagreed with me and therefore THAT’S why i avoid itglad we got there eventually.
There were several guys in the Iliad who deserved their own sequel so much more than Aeneas and Odysseus
>25297273Are we really going to have this exact same thread again? Still mad you lost the last one?
>>25300242>I have avoided describing the Cyclops with words such as "savage," which carry with them the legacy of early modern and modern forms of colonialism -- a legacy that is, of course, anachronistic for the world of The Odyssey. on its face this seems fine, just phrased in an insufferably woke way. translated out of wokespeak it would go something like>I didn't want to use "savage" when talking about the Cyclops because "savage" gained its contemporary meaning during and after colonialism, and colonialism happened way after Homer was dead. Describing the Cyclops as "savage" carries overtones and associations that aren't really present in the original -- I don't think they would've seen the Cyclops in the same way that European colonists saw native populations. personally, I don't think that describing the cyclops as savage is heckin racist or whatever, but I also don't think that's what wilson is trying to do here. she's making a much narrower but solid philological point about her translation choices
>Over 60 English translation>All the talk goes towards WilsonsTiresome
>25300251Nobody else does. Spare us the wet noodle apologia
>>25300167I genuinely think you have brain damage.
>>25299462>which they considered to be primitive and undeveloped in comparison to themIt was hundreds of years old, retard. You're not saying something surprising. I literally said that Plato already said it about Odysseus, and Plato was much closer to the time of Homer.>hey thought Virgil was more moral than HomerBecause Virgil was of their culture. He just pandered to the Romans. Both works are great, but let's not pretend that Virgil was doing something special. He just wrote hundreds of years later, and got to use Homer as a template.Remember, Homer used to be used in the same way that we have university textbooks. He was read by all of the great minds that the Greeks ever had. Which is how we got to where we are now. We finally have scholars pointing out that Homer's writings were part of the influence of the narrative of the bible gospels. Homer is woven into our society in a way that we don't even fully realize.
>>25300251>personally, I don't think that describing the cyclops as savage is heckin racist or whatever, but I also don't think that's what wilson is trying to do here. she's making a much narrower but solid philological point about her translation choicesGlowing.
>>25300251Notions of hospitality and faithful adherence to sovereign/client relations as the bedrock of society is arguably the singular central theme of the Odyssey. If anything "savage" fails to carry the absolute invective intended for Polyphemus within the original Homeric context.
>>25297273Who gives a care !!! #TRUE #TRVTH
>>25300566we're not disagreeing? You seem to think we're disagreeing, we're not -- virgil isn't doing anything special or unique, I'm saying one way that manifests is distancing himself from odysseus's subpar virtue. plato does the same thing. the much broader point I'm trying to get at is that "oh no X interpretation or Y translation of Homer is actually a coded form of Z!" is both a) probably true b) absolutely nothing new at any point ever
>>25299960>>25300000desu, I just think anon does it because chatgpt is mainly trained on reddit and redditors are retarded
>>25300334let me sound it out for you: your argument against emily is 'a chatbot recommended her.' meanwhile, you use chatbots for information. if your rejection is based on evaluating merit, you’d have to make that argument instead.
>>25300777Again, you demonstrate your brain damage. I use it for information. That information is in the form of a recommendation based on criteria I disagree with. Thus I know to avoid the thing it recommends. How are you even able to navigate technology enough to post here?
>>25300825thought i made it pretty clear there - if your argument is ‘i disagree with the chatbot this time’, then obviously your argument must be about that, not just ‘gpt said it therefore it’s wrong’. do you see?
>>25297273>It's actually a very literal translationI mean I'm sure it was when it initially came out of google translate before she edited it to make it sound the way she wanted, but the finished product really isn't.
>>25300254Partially her fault for deliberately attaching her translation to modern political discussions, partially Nolan's fault for openly citing her translation as the one he read while making his Odyssey movie (which is going to define how normalfags see the Odyssey for quite a long time afterward)
>>25297273I teach mythology courses sometimes, and while Wilson's edition is approachable and avoids archaisms that tend to confuse freshmen, I found it frustrating because it makes teaching certain aspects of the text more difficult. For example, she goes out of her way to avoid repetitions in places ("when rosy-fingered dawn..." etc.), which are a structuring feature of Homer's text, and this makes talking about the oral composition of the Homeric epics more difficult. I actually had to quote a more faithful translation to provide examples when I taught that lesson. Which raises the uncomfortable question of why a less faithful translation was selected for the class. (I have since gone back to Lattimore.) I think on the whole trying to make concessions by changing the poem to make it more easily consumed by the modern reader, gives the modern reader too little credit, and does students a disservice.
Tell me about a complicated OP...
>>25300852You have zero understanding of what you're talking about anon. It's just sad at this point.
>>25300985starting to sound like you’re out of moves.
