greetings fellow esoterik kantanons,it has been some time since I have posted in depth esoterik kantianism content, and for this i am sorry. the project has been in a weird limbo and i've been trying to find out where to go next. lately i have been diving into agrippa von nettesheim's occult philosophy. i am trying to be open minded about his work and whenever i see something that has been supposedly refuted by modern science, i stop to think if there is another way to interpret it. one of these topics that i think is relevant to the project is the concept of the four classical elements which is the foundation of the science of natural magic. at first glance the names earth, water, air, and fire seem to refer to the objects that we refer to by these names in experience, however, i want to emphasize, they are NOT. agrippa says they are distinct. these are distinct from their empirical counterparts. but if they are not empirical, but rather the rational principles of experience, then they are transcendental and must in some way be a predicable of pure reason, i.e., a priori concepts that are synthesized a priori to all objects of experience. further, these four elements are themselves composites of more fundamental principles, the so called hot, cold, wet, dry, which again, are not those of experience, not the sensibles that we experience, and consequentally, again, a priori. these four principles antecedent to the elements are in some way combined to form the four elements out of which all else is composed. the words must therefore be understood in a figurative and not literal sense, and their being named so must be due to some analagy between them and their empirical counterpart. their place must be found in the early stages of the metapyhysics of nature and they are predicables of pure reason which means that they are pure concepts derived from the categories. strangely, the four classical elements also have a three fold division each: the pure, the mixed, and the twice mixed. This produces, lo and behold, a total of twelve modes of the four elements, which coincidentaly alligns perfectly with the table of the categories. there is something here. i am catching glimpses of it. the classical elements have been misunderstood by modern empirical unsystematic science, but they can be reintroduced into, and actually find their place and are themselves derived within the Kantian system. in this way, the phenomena described in agrippa's book, instead of taken as facts on the authority of tradition, or fallible experiment, can be rationally deduced from the first principles of metaphysical science, and be determined with apodictic certainty.
Read Aristotle’s De Caelo for the OG account of the four elements and the primary qualities, you might get some esoteric milage out of it. Aristotle did not think any of the four were encountered in pure form in nature, they were speculative constructs that follow logically from a theory of natural place and a geocentric cosmos. I cannot recall the details but I remember being impressed by how rational it was. German is going well, I’ve been following more of a Loeb approach lately, but overall Kant is not really that hard in German, I expected more of a steep climb than this. And no idealist texts atm I’m rereading Kierkegaard’s Fear & Trembling - very good but difficult dialectical exploration of the story of Abraham and Isaac. Tl;dr - faith isn’t just believing a proposition, nor is it resigning yourself to ‘the eternal’, it’s having the confidence that with God all things are possible here in this life in spite of being well aware of the impossible aspect. A very this-worldly understanding of faith, so he imagines the Knight of Faith as appearing like a perfectly ordinary and unremarkable person. Lots of Hegel trolling; the very notion of a knight of faith is ofc in the Phenomenology of Spirit where it is le bad, someone who does nothing lest he be contaminated by the world. My favorite knockdown anti-Hegel line: “Our age is not willing to stop with faith, with its miracle of turning water into wine, it goes further, it turns wine into water.” Good luck with your studies fren.
Once again i think you're kinda just reinventing Hegel from first principles.
>>25298124>Read Aristotle’s De Caelo for the OG account of the four elements and the primary qualities, you might get some esoteric milage out of it.yea i think i might have to go back to aristotle, because agrippa just tells you the basics of classical element theory.
>>25298129Schelling did it first. I can’t be assed to wade through the Naturphilosophien of either though.
>>25298129i am definitely sympathetic to Hegel and read him too. i'm still working my way through all the german idealists but they all take a lot of time to truly understand. but i'm still learning german. i just post on here to throw ideas out and talk and honestly do shitpost a lot but it's just fun. but my project is analagous to Hegel, yes, but not Hegel exactly. because obviously i don't fully understand hegel. but i get the main idea behind the project, which is comparable to mine.
>>25298135i really want to get into the Naturphilosophen. that shit is so cool.
>>25298139I personally despise Hegel but you can’t deny his genius. For me the “peak” of his work is when he deconstructs subjectivity in the section on Morality in the PoS, I just think he took a wrong turn from there. But he is right, the subject is not a piece of meat you can carve at the joints but more of a black box, and I think even St Paul would concur. ‘Who will save me from this body of death?’ Not only does he show you can’t do it, he shows how if you try to do it you become evil in spite of yourself. This is what Kierkegaard is riffing on and he does it in part by drawing on my main man Fichte.>>25298149To each his own, it gives me a headache.
>>25298181>it gives me a headache.why do you say that?
>>25298129>Air is a transparent but just as elastic fluid, which absorbs and penetrates everything. Swami Vivekananda writes as follows: "Akasha is the omnipresent, all penetrating existence. Everything that has form. Everything that is the result of compounds is evolved Out of this Akasha. It is the Akusha that becomes the air that becomes the liquids, that becomes the solids; it is the Akasha that becomes the suns, the earth, and the moon. The stars. The comets: it is the Akasha that becomes the body, the animal body, the plants, and every form that we see. Everything that can be sensed. Everything that exists."
>>25298197Because it’s all about magnets and shit. It just doesn’t make sense, the science is out of date and the method is flawed. Besides Kant’s nebular hypothesis I don’t think these autist wizards contributed anything to science besides, “be cautious about thinking in black and white categories” and “it is easy to read your theory into reality when it isn’t there because you begin to see everything in light of it.” Important points certainly but the overall project failed, there is no a priori natural science.
>>25298102Boehme & Oetinger. The former as a layman autist will be particularly revelatory. Porphry & Iamblichus were the principal magickal antecedents. Man as a temporal & experiential constant, The Absolute Finite Subject is bewildered by the total exteriorized material alterity of becoming, the latter being utterly beholden to Necessity the Noumenal particularity of things-in-themselves is not accessible as Kant stated, because non-sentient aggregations of Hyle are just that— many aperspectival nodes of the All, whose contingent non-nature is radically overdetermined to a Monadic degree ('butterfly effect' in autismal-retard terms) ... — and benighted for it. Intellectual vision & Imagination with the memory to weigh against it is the domain of human freedom . . . we ourselves are determinately negated by the Materium's absent-mindedness, which is only and can only be For-Us passed through the Manifold: these 'things-in-themselves' are alethically obliged to present themselves inside-out, eidetically naive for immediate apprehension. We noetically and empirically fix the Sensibility & Unserstanding's mis-givings in post Providential, even>>25298129>fire is materialized timeThere is KAIROS (infinite, unlimited) and KRONOS (linear, successive, indeterminately endless). The former is out from which any and all Recollection is performed by Subjects, be it the Understanding, concrete Apprehension or the Apperceptive Mind's conception.
>>25298235>there is no a priori natural science.well that's not very esoterik kantian of you.
>>25298215akash = ether?
>>25298237anon, i still don't understand your schizoposts but i think i'm catching glimpses of light
>>25298237>Boehme & Oetinger.i intend to read both of them. have you read paracelsus?
>>25298242For me esoteric Kantianism is a radicalizing of the Copernican turn. Nature is indeed a product of my/our imagination but I don’t think you can deduce laws of gravity from I=I. You can deduce air and light thoughbeit as well as the general structure of the human body and the existence of other rational beings and at least two of the sense organs. If you say there is nothing ‘given’, like Hegel did, then you’re really taking the “Kant” out of “esoteric Kantian”.
>>25298237>The former is out from which any and all Recollection is performed by Subjectsbut how anon??? HOW???
>>25298244yes my brother, the Quintessence, Levi's Astral Light, the Spiritus Sanctus, etc.
>>25298261>If you say there is nothing ‘given’, like Hegel did, then you’re really taking the “Kant” out of “esoteric Kantian”.the givenness of nature is no different from the positedness of the I. the I simply finds itself one day, just as previously it found nature before it.
>>25298267i need to ground the concept the memory-mirror-like nature of the astral light in transcendental philosophy.
>>25298237Man these posts make me so annoyed because the real deal is both more rational and more ‘crazy’ than this schizo stuff. Fichte was a revolutionary who teaches you how to form intellectual sleeper cells within the Lutheran church and all sorts of cool shit and you guys are just daydreaming about magick. Magic is real, the I=I is magic, but not like this. The endgame is leftwing anarchism, this is what Fichte taught.
>>25298282>The endgame is leftwing anarchism, this is what Fichte taught.I don't think that's what he taught anon.
>>25298270This is picture thinking, the I posits ITSELF. It does not find itself it posits itself prior to all time. Goddamn man this shit is so frustrating talking to you. Read Fichte REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>25298288>It does not find itself it posits itself prior to all timehow can it do that if 'before' is a time determination presupposing tiime. if it logically prior that's fine, but it is then the kantian transcendental unity of apperception and not accesible to itself apart from the necessary conditions of that unity, the categories, in which case it does not posit itself, but rather finds the concept of itself in the abstract, the concept of its own transcendental unity, not that transcendental unity itself.
>>25298282no, i think schizoanon here is on to something.
anna, do you still lurk in these threads?
>>25298299‘Before’ is not necessarily a time determination. Aristotle addresses this in the Categories actually. In the Fichtean I=I neither subject nor predicate is prior to the other. You’re right that we need categories, the I=I is God and we can’t think it, it becomes a ciper=0, the categories come in only with the Anstoß. In this vacuum we find one another and move along together. This sounds so schizo and retarded but it’s pure German idealism. I’m weeping writing this, tears streaming down my face. Love you, man.
>>25298321are you ok anon?
>>25298278Through the study and practice of the occult sciences, the Adept must learn how to align their subtle body to the rhythms of the auric phantasm. These reflexes of starfire are mirrored shadows of noumena. Their adumbrations percolate within the interstices, impressing themselves as an oracular gnosis, as a rhythm of the cells between the body-mind, filtering through as a phantasma upon the Magickal Mirror of the Adept.
>>25298404this is all very interesting, but from a kantian standpoint dogmatic, there must be a systematic grounding for how these facts are possible. critical occultism, takes a step back and asks "how are these phenomena possible?".
>>25299078>critical occultismi like that term, it hits.
>>25299078>critical occultismthere are actual words you couldve used here
>>25299202i did use actual words. what is your meaning?
>>25299263>critical occultismwhats occultism to you?
>>25299272like magic n shit
I am ready for my initiation
>>25299706that's the discord mod way
i told this girl i like about esoterik kantianism. there wasn't second date, but at least she learned about the superimposition of imagination upon phenomenal space.
Picrel just dropped… into my hands, I got it from the library. Stoked to read it because Henrich was a Fichteboo. I befriended this very weird zoomer kid at work and made plans to hang with him and his boyfriend, hopefully I can convert them to esoteric Kantianism. My last attempt failed because dude was a millennial like me and also a Nu Atheist; he was into analytic philosophy so we had no common language and he was fairly normie. But this kid is legitimately weird and not a pothead, it might work. In all seriousness hopefully will get me out of isolation and we can drink beer and be weird together and walk the trails. Where I live at my age you’re either a lawyer/doctor or you’re on needle drugs, very isolating. Fear and Trembling is giving me a headache. That’s my report, the movement grows every day and soon enough we will enter the halls of power. Socialism with Autistic Characteristics NOW!
>>25300063 (me)Already I know I’ll love this book.>The early romantics considered themselves to be students of Fichte. They felt that without being deeply versed in Fichte’s Wissenschaftslehre it would have been impossible to develop the kind of poetry they were weiting.
>>25300063>I befriended this very weird zoomer kid at work and made plans to hang with him and his boyfriendhe's an actual fag?
>>25300088Yeah and what’s wrong with that? So were Plato and Socrates (albeit non-practicing). I myself dabbled in homosexuality as a youth.
>>25300116that's pretty gay dude. this thread is a no homo zone.
>>25300119Being a fag doesn’t violate the categorical imperative in any way. And besides we all know Schelling was a flagrant gay.
>>25300150schelling was swimming in pussy and had like twenty billion kids what are you talking about?and being a fag does contradict the categorical imperative
>>25300153Schelling was a poofed up twink. Even as a bitter heterosexual middle aged bachelor I think of him from time to time. “WHERE IS IT?!” (moan) “WHERE IS IT?” (moan, moan) “WHERE IS IT OUTSIDE OF CONSCIOUSNESS?” (oh gawwwd)
>>25300166slanderer. go away homo gay.
>>25300172I’m not gay I just have a big imagination. And can the esoteric kantian movement agree once and for all that Schelling was a fag? He missed the boat entirely, it’s just a retarded version of precritical metaphysics and it’s unbearably pretentious. I honestly believe there is nothing of value in Schelling, he’s an opium eating cumrag.
>>25300190>And can the esoteric kantian movement agree once and for all that Schelling was a fag?never. schelling is gigabased and a friend of the esoterik kantians.
>>25300203Why? What did he contribute besides retard schematism? Every Schelling book I’ve read just grabs a platitude and schematizes it. I’m happy to be proved wrong. Btw check this schelling qt: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jRcycn-jxgI&pp=ygUcU2NoZWxsaW5nIG15c3RpY2FsIHBsYXRvbmlzbQ%3D%3D&ra=mNot so gay now am I huh?
>>25300063>>25300116>>25300150>>25300166Pull up, pull up
>>25300216because he just is. and you're still gay for saying gay shit. no take backs. also the dude in the video is a gigafag too.
>>25300229Yeah that’s how I look and dress desu. I hope I can usher these gay zoomers into a philosophical enlightenment that doesn’t involve any poopdick or weird cult activity but I make no promises.>>25300230If you don’t understand the Fichte-Schelling fallout you need to lurk more. Schelling is not your friend he is a return to the Greeks in a bad way. Not like Fichte who defends Plato’s identification of matter and place/space in the Nova Methodo lectures I mean in a retarded way, like the lunch lady with fetal alcohol syndrome who yelled spittle at you as a lad.
