I so dearly wish the world worked like this. But it never has, and it never will. Best to save these naive dreams for a vision of the afterlife.Post other books that make you feel this way.
Imagine if every cell in your body decided evolution is only about cutthroat competition and started killing each other
>>25302170Sounds like cancer
>>25302184Capitalism is basically cancer if we imagine humanity as a sort of organism
>>25302200It is simply unavoidable. There is no other way around it.
if you want your dream co-operative reality, start cooperating with God, observe natural law, and respect human dignity and sovereignty; this necessarily entails property rights. quit trying to steal from everyone, and don't give anybody (especially the State) an out in doing so.very tired of communists. so tired man. talk about a bummer, knowing the only people cognizant enough to recognize these injustices (leftists) just want their rape and slavery and theft in different measures, put for their own ends. there's a black pill if ever there were one.and despite all the outreach from a rare sensible and scrupulous person like Rothbard, it was all for nought. just as we all knew, liberty is too radical a proposition. It's funny watching his speeches in the 90s, how hopeful he was that people were finally coming to their senses about communism and statism broadly. it sickens me to juxtapose that with our present outlook. every day I wish I had that hope.
>>25302256By God, do you mean Yahweh? The God of Rape and Slavery?
>>25302256I've been downing gallons of the Anarchism kool-aid for years but it just doesn't seem to be effective in any way whatsoever. Might as well stop thinking about large scale political structures altogether and only worry about what you should directly fight against as an individual without worrying about ''the community''.
>>25302401Read The State and Revolution, by Lenin. Then read about the Cuban Revolution, which was accomplished by a few dozen men. Cuba today is closer to anarchism than anything else, every community has their own armory of weapons that belongs to them and they distribute to keep peace. 95% of the country belongs to a union while union membership remains voluntary. More than 80% of the country owns a home and they have a lower infant mortality than America and higher literacy and math achievement rate, their literacy campaign wss kickstarted entirely by unpaid volunteers that the revolutionaries called to voluntarily help. They have a scholarship program for medical doctors for poor countries and have trained hundreds of the MD's of Palestine. All of their elections are de-centralized and the lowest representative is elected by counting hands, at 16 you get the right to vote. Representatives are unpaid and can be recalled by a simple majority vote at any time
>>25302257God has never condoned rape, but specimens like you are a salient example of why He does allow slavery.
>>25302458Why even galvanize Cuba when it's a shit hole people flee from? It doesn't even have great worker representation since independent trade unions are not legal nor strikes (because Cuba's communist government does not maintain a right to strike like most capitalist countries do).Life in the US and Europe is undoubtedly better. That's why you don't see socialists moving to Cuba and living there. Even the Chinese, who are much smarter than the Cubans, still mock them for maintaining their quasi-Soviet system.
>>25302458Always with the overly simplified examples
>>25302482Cuba is suffocated to hell by America, what they have accomplished under those conditions is miraculous, especially considering the USSR collapsed which was their primary trade partner and source of 75% of their imports.Unions in Cuba can strike, it requires a vote by the unions to do so, which are not part of the government
>>25302170>everything is either hyperindividualistic cutthroat competition or a perfectly harmonious ant farm, no inbetween
>>25302170Most cells in general do indeed act this way, we are significantly outnumbered by single celled organisms. Cooperation is rare in nature.
>>25302705Competition's main impetus in evolution is as a spur to cooperation. Outside of that context it can only lead to a zero-sum game, which is exactly what capitalism has mostly become, hence why the greatest profit margins are in financial speculation.
>>25302549How are they "suffocated" by us? Because we don't let gay tourists rent underage boys there like the Canadian government does? It's a total shithole like every other Communist country was.
>>25302710And they have subjected to comparatively minimal evolution.
>>25302712>Competition's main impetus in evolution is as a spur to cooperation.No it isn't. > Outside of that context it can only lead to a zero-sum game,Most things (depending on perspective) are zero sum whether you like it or not. "Natural harmony" is achieved by ruthless extinction of the maladapted and mass starvation when prey and predator grow imbalanced. >hence why the greatest profit margins are in financial speculation.Not true, Musk theoretically (it's partially unrealized of course) profited far more than any of his investors.
>>25302713Because we prohibit ships that dock there to trade with us. Which means unlike all of the rest of Latin America they are systematically excluded from most global trade.
>>25302715Literally the opposite is true. They're far older than we are and better evolved for their niches. You would not survive a fraction of a second living in the conditions that extremophiles live in. Evolution is not a video game tech tree.
>>25302716Zero-sum is not a productive ideology, it is one that obviously depends and encouraged simple wealth transfer because that is the most efficient means of competitionInvestors are not speculators. Net profit is not profit margin
>>25302401>the communityyour community is your neighborhood
>>25302718And? Why would they need goods produced under capitalist exploitation? Surely China, North Korea, and, until recently, Venezuela were enough.
>>25302723>Zero-sum is not a productive ideologyIt's not an ideology at all it's a description of a certain kind of competition or game. You seem extremely confused.
>>25302721They are not complex, they are rudimentary. Life as it has meaning for us, isn't that. It is technically life but at the point that the qualia is no different from non-life.
>>25302725Why do capitalists need goods produced by labor, is the more serious question. And why do they need to try to strangle a country that maintains a better education and infant mortality in spite of their strangulation?
>>25302729It is an ideological take on evolution advanced under capitalism known as social Darwinism
>>25302549>Cuba is suffocated to hell by America, what they have accomplished under those conditions is miraculous,Not really. They just can't do business with the US, and the Chinese blame their economic system, not the embargo.>Unions in Cuba can strike, it requires a vote by the unions to do so, which are not part of the governmentNo, they do not. This is a lie. This is the problem with Marxists, in general, is that they lie way too much. The only trade union that exists in Cuba is the CTC and its made up entirely of communist party members.
>>25302739Cuba was sanctioned for stealing US property through nationalizations and harboring US fugitives. Assata Shakur. It's perfectly rational for the US punish Cuba for what did to the US. Also, Cuba sends soldiers to kill people in Ukraine. They're not some innocent country.
>>25302730No>>25302739Because until robots become a thing (next couple of years) that's the only way to get anything done. Do you think the world would be a better place if we never had an industrial revolution? I didn't know marxism was in favor of a world ruled by the Church and Cholera!>And why do they need to try to strangle Because they're a hostile power, see >>25302745> a country that maintains a better educationThis probably isn't true but if it is it's because retarded leftists have ruined our school system >and infant mortalityThis isn't true at all
>why can't we all just get alongi unironically feel this way
>>25302742Any trade ship going through that area will be stopping at an American port because that is the manor market by far. So it cuts them off from way more than America This is the problem with capitalists in general. They lie. Too much. They sell lies. They run lies for office. And will kill to support the lies.The CTC is not a union, it is the union organization. It is made up of almost all.tbe adult male population.There is no law against striking in Cuba. This bullshit comes 100% from inferring it. They say because there is no law to affirms strikes "they are *effectively* illegal*. This bullshit is so tedious. There is no law prohibiting the right to strike. Look up such a law for yourself.
>>25302754Me too but the "why" turns out to be extremely strong and universal so all we have is hope for a better world somewhere beyond our power, likely after death, and to mess around with what scraps are in our power and make things as gentle as we can. But sometimes even that backfires and makes things worse, and the serpent devours its tail again and nothing changes.
>>25302752"Next couple of years, all labor will be done by robots" was actually a popular idea in 1900. There will mever be perpetual motion machinesAmerica is bawling about casinos taken from Jewish mobsters when so much kf America itself was taken from Mexico?
>>25302765Bud, you just lied that strikes and independent unions are allowed in Cuba when I just proved they are explicitly prohibited. It's like this in every communist country. You don't know what you're talking because you're a delusional retard. You're not fooling anyone with your non-sense, and you better watch out. Hasan, and all your friends are getting raided by the FBI.
>>25302768You didn't prove shit. 98% of the adult Cuban population is in a union. The right to strike has no regulation in legislation, even extremely anti Cuban articles say this"the right to strike is simply not regulated by the legislation in Cuba."https://www.refworld.org/reference/annualreport/ituc/2010/74348
>>253027671) No one gives a shit about Mexico, the land is ours now just like Chihuahua is theirs and not the Aztec's2) I unironically hope you're correct but everything I've seen in the industry points to significant automation of human labor within a decade. Hopefully jevons paradox or UBI or some other thing magically saves us. But your argument isn't one, this is not the 1900s and solar power and robots are not perpetual motion machines. You cannot stare at a computer for long enough and the intuit how it works on a physical level.
>>253028031) Then bawling about mobster casinos seems retarded2) Automation of human labor has always gone on and will continue to. The only tension here is capitalism likes to keep certain forms of labor artificially scarce, as the AMA does with doctors, to ensure pay is high, and other forms superabundance, I mean the reserve industrial army, to ensure pay is low. We speak of unskilled labor but every laborer is expected to be literate and the same kind of proficiency can be achieved with other skills, it just isn't, numeracy itself is gutten by capitalism. We find North Korea has a far more effective math education than America because they are not focused on making sure there is an abundance of underskilled workers in order to keep wages down for simple labor
>>25302818You have schizophrenia>We find North Korea has a far more effective math education than America because Because of black kids, that's it. It's unpleasant but that's literally the only reason our education system is as bad as it is.
>>25302823Well not the only reason but probably the biggest, unless you lump the specifics of *why* it is generally under "stupid white women doing stupid shit".
>>25302775Lmao, your own source say you're wrong and that I'm correct, you fucking illiterate retard. Cuba does prohibit strikes and independent trade unions. Like I said, you're a liar, like all communist retards.
Mutualism is easily refuted by taking even a cursory glance at history.
Cooperation only works to the extent that competition already meets basic needs. You can't cooperate with another entity if your basic needs aren't met first. This is so obvious and is why rich countries have the time to worry about whether communism could work, take away their ability to meet basic needs and they stop worrying about fictional concepts like communism.
>>25302853>take away their ability to meet basic needs and they stop worrying about fictional concepts like communism.That's why Lenin called communism electrification + Soviet power. Retards like Anarchists, and other ultra-left communist types are more interested in achieving their lofty, pure theoretical ideals than solving actual problems with actual policy.
>>25302853How did men cooperate to hunt mammoths to extinction?
>>25302823Cuba also has much better math and literacy rate and they have same Black demographic as America does due to also having a legacy of major slavery. >>25302833The source is anti-Cuban and explicitly give any instance of this and openly bases it on inference. But I am pointing out that even anti-Cuban articles say there isn't any such legislation
>>25303001With a full belly first, good sleep and good sex. Back then, the best hunters probably got more meat, the men with wives probably had more stamina, and the men with more children probably ate less, etc. Even within a community, there's constant competition for basic needs.
>>25303026You do a lot of guesswork when all these questions were answered by anthropology in the 19th Century. There is almost never competition within small primitive communities
>>25303033Of course there isn't, it's like saying there's no competition within a family household. Children compete with each other for parent's affection, Spouses compete for attention btn children and their second halves, etc. I don't need research from outdated sources to tell me this.
>>25303036Human language is itself the product of enormous cooperation. It seems that your assertion that humans only cooperate when their bellies are full is wrong, and you should accept that instead of talking about how you would race your dog
>>25303045Humans were apes long before they started talking, so we can take this back to when we were monkeys and it would still stand that competition comes first.
>>25303050So instead of just admitting you were wrong that humans only cooperate when their bellies are full, you are gonna shid and cum and eat it too. Ok
>>25303052Lmao, apes eat too, I don't see anywhere in my comment that suggests basic needs excludes eating, in fact, you were the one who introduced language when my point has been about basic needs all along.
>>25303053Homo sapiens as a species arose from cooperation, our unique mental faculties are our socialization faculties.
Why are you all so retarded
>>25303057Again, apes are a social species that cooperate, this is not unique to humans. Chimps from one gang cooperate to kill rival gangs when they veer into their territory.
>>25303062Apes could only exist because they of the cooperation of the countless cells of their body, that goes for all multicellular organisms. What humans have that apes lack is capacity for size of society. Ape society has a very low roof for breaking up into new ans separate societies. Humans even as nomads were able to grow far beyond that limit, allowing for much greater complexity and sophisticated.
>>25303071And cells only cooperated after they had satisfied their basic needs lmao, in fact cells only grew larger and more complex after swallowing mitochondria as food. I don't know why this is difficult to understand, you can't cooperate if your basic needs are not met, to meet your basic needs you need to compete for resources. Cooperation is a secondary need that comes after you have taken enough care of yourself to worry about future needs.
>>25303087We do not, as social organisms, "take care of ourselves". We take care of each other, and without extremely complex and ubiquitous cooperation, we would almost all of starve to death. Even ants have more of ability to survive by themselves than humans do. Evolution is a group practice, that is why bees have an instinct to end their own life to defend their hive.
>>25303102You can't take care of anything without taking care of yourself first. You have so far made no argument to refute this, we even went as far talking about the cells we are made of.
>>25303107There is no "self" to take care of without taking care of others. One is reminded of the Jewish folktale of heaven and hell: each has a bunch of people with long spoons around a communal soup bowl, but in hell they can never get the soup to their mouth because the spoon is too cumbersome, whereas in heaven they feed each other. Some things we have to do for ourselves, like breath. But for almost everything else we depend upon an ongoing cooperation with others. The self is never "taken care of" until it is dead and it cannot exist without a network of mutual care. Even its body can't. This interdependence is required for life of any complexity and without ite satisfaction, complexity quickly dies including complex life
>>25303126I could make the same argument about others being composed of selfs, so no. At the smallest level, there's no such thing as others.
>HUMANS ARE NATURALLY COMPETITIVE! >NO, HUMANS ARE NATURALLY COOPERATIVE! They're both. Anyone who gives a fuck about this kind of thing should read this book.
>>25302767>when so much kf America itself was taken from Mexico?lmao, who did the Mexicans steal the land from paco? Did they steal it from the natives or the Spanish? Fucking disingenuous retarded faggot.
>>25303138At the smallest level, there is no such thing as self
>>25303153And yet when it comes to mobsters who made their fortune from extortion and racketeering, suddenly their casinos are sacred?
>>25302200Capitalism isnt cancer it's the metabolism of the human superorganism
>>25303177Doesn't that turn into cancer
>>25303177Labor is. Capitalism, private ownership of capital, is not, strictly. It it does augment metabolism until a certain point at which point it is tumor that lives upon the rest of the organism in a way that doesn't augment metabolism but actually inhibits it
