Stop having faith in language

There's no 'meaning of' anything

>>25304843
I'm the same age, have tried to abstain from reading any big names to not cloud my own self, and I believe this to all be a loosh farm; artificial at the best.

>>25304843
Really? I figured that shit out when I was 14

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>>25304843
>the meaning of life
to speak truth and live by it, thereby thwarting evil and achieving a degree of immortality.

>>25304973
Figured what?
>>25305030
Truth? Define truth

>>25305034
truth is a description of reality according to reason and evidence

>>25304843
Yes
1. the purpose of all life is to reproduce/continue the species
2. philosophy means nothing in a world ruled by AI so don't waste your time

>>25304843
>dude if i read enough ill be happy and le smart and enlighted
No you just escapism max while feeling like you where doing something when actually you was doing is sitting or laying down flipping pages
Kys
If you read real books that dont try to be "literary" you would of atleast been happy while reading
And if you actually studied any real science you would been smart

>>25304843
what made you think philospohy could get you there lol?

>>25305039
truth is the clear articulation of my innermost feeling regardless of reason nor evidence

>>25304843
>I've read all the big names in philosophy and literature in my 35 years of life and I still don't get the meaning of life
Somehow you missed it: the meaning of life is reading. Congratulations!

>>25305044
>the purpose of all life is to reproduce/continue the species
So you're just a regular, dumb, hormonal animal? Doesn't sound very 'enlightened'.
Continue the species why? Just because? There's no inherent value in that.

>>25305075
bro its like the most inherent value of anything there is.

>>25305076
Saying life reproduces is descriptive. Concluding that reproduction is inherently valuable and ought to be pursued is normative. The leap doesn't follow. Why should continuation itself matter?

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>I still don't get the meaning of life
people say things like this but then also (i'd be willing to bet) have a clear intuitive sense of what are the more or less meaningful-feeling moments in their lives: the times you feel you're connected to or divorced from different energies and intensities, the sense that you're using your consciousness well or that you're squandering it, the times when the world feels vast and inviting and those when it feels empty and lifeless.

from the perspective of some absolute universal principle, those moments of micro-meaning may all look equally worthless, they cannot justify themselves in the court of pure rationality - but imo that's a good reason to drop the idea of an absolute universal principle. instead, i think we should be studying the diverse kinds of meaning we already have access to and organise our lives around. we need to think about how meaning is produced in our own lives, across societies and across history, and how it could be produced differently.

>>25305044
bro has the two stupidest most room temperature IQ normie takes in the world.

>>25305076
perpetuating life could only have value if there were other values attached to life. 'it lasts many millennia' is not itself a value. pebbles last many millennia.

>>25305073
>>25305081
OP spent 35 years searching for meaning through philosophy and literature, but perhaps the search itself was already one of the meaningful activities of their life.

>>25305080
>Why should continuation itself matter?
Cause its the only instruction that life gave us that goes beyond an individual basic needs
And we dont know shit about life or conciousness or why things want to keep living so you literally are being part of something bigger by having kids
You thinking is le dumb and uncivilized shows how retarded you are

>>25305088
You're sliding between biological tendencies, psychological intuitions and moral obligations as if they were the same thing. "Life gave us an instruction" is just anthropomorphizing nature; evolution has no conscious intent, commandments or teleology. And reproduction is different from basic survival functions like breathing or eating. What you're saying is incoherent.

>>25305082
imo his first take is dumb indeed (though not irredeemably) but the second is an important insight. to think at all meaningfully, we need to anticipate a future where our thoughts will matter.

>>25305039
So you live by reality? You live by stating what's real based on reason and evidence? How does that help finding the meaning of existence?
>>25305044
Sure biologicaly. We're more than animals though. Why did nature give us an ability to understand the world if nothing matters?
Why shouldn't we bother because of AI?
>>25305054
True, I would have been happier without knowing all that. It's too late though.
>>25305067
I thought it would help me care less about our existence, not more
>>25305081
You can be temporarily happy, or even fulfilled your whole life. I would have chosen this path if I had to redo my life but they're still nowhere closer than me on the meaning of existence.

>>25305093
If literally wasting energy in hormones formation of sexual organs making it rewarding to perform the act adding love hormones for you to love your partner and child so you stay together to ensure the kid survival, doesnt seem like a biology intruction then you are so out of touch is laughable

You wasted 35 years reading and you cant understand the most basic shit
you will never find meaning cause if you did, you problably will tried to rationalize or put into words things that cant be
So kys and livestream it pls

>>25305099
To be clear, I know there's no meaning to existence. What I'm trying to find is a way to live with that fact in peace.

>>25305104
Stop trying to rationalize it you dont have to, it doesnt have to make sense

>>25304843drugs
The only meaning of life I've found is death. 70 years isn't a long time and isn't guaranteed. I don't care what happens after because I haven't found any convincing arguments. Basically the only thing I believe in is pleasure and living in the moment. My best memories are getting drunk and playing video games or taking mushrooms while lying in my bed with all the lights turned off. I think all of it is cope for not being able to find love, which I've doubted the existence of for more than a decade. I never cared for anyone besides myself.

>>25304843
(Formatting is probably fucked but is late and I'm phone posting)

To be, or not to be - that is the question;
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them; to die: to sleep -
No more, and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: ’tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished - to die: to sleep -
To sleep, perchance to dream - ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th’oppressor's wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin. Who would fardels bear
To grunt and sweat under a weary life
But that the dread of something after death -
The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveller returns - puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.

Ecc 1:14-18 DRV I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold all is vanity, and vexation of spirit. 15. The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite. 16. I have spoken in my heart, saying: Behold I am become great, and have gone beyond all in wisdom, that were before me in Jerusalem: and my mind hath contemplated many things wisely, and I have learned. 17. And I have given my heart to know prudence, and learning, and errors, and folly: and I have perceived that in these also there was labour, and vexation of spirit, 18. Because In much wisdom there is much indignation: and he that addeth knowledge, addeth also labour.

Joh 3:16-17 DRV For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17. For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.

>>25305110
>>25305109
Kys both of you

>>25305112
Why don't you engage in the conversation instead of being a nigger? There is no wrong opinion about life.

>>25305110
And two codas, after the critical moment:

Gen 1:27-31 DRV And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. 28. And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth. 29. And God said: Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed upon the earth, and all trees that have in themselves seed of their own kind, to be your meat: 30. And to all beasts of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to all that move upon the earth, and wherein there is life, that they may have to feed upon. And it was so done. 31. And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

Rev 21:1-7 DRV And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth was gone, and the sea is now no more. 2. And I John saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3. And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men, and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people; and God himself with them shall be their God. 4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away. 5. And he that sat on the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And he said to me: Write, for these words are most faithful and true. 6. And he said to me: It is done. I am Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end. To him that thirsteth, I will give of the fountain of the water of life, freely. 7. He that shall overcome shall possess these things, and I will be his God; and he shall be my son.

>>25305112
No

>>25305115
One is just a crackhead that gave up on life and the other is poetry fag
They can only have the wrong opinion

>>25305122
how do you not recognize hamlet and the Bible lol

>>25305122
And what is your opinion?

>>25305125
Yeah my bad i saw the poetry and disregarded the post, he aint a poetry fag he a christ chad
>>25305126
Yall think too much and do too little

>>25305129
If you're a Christian you should probably be a bit more charitable towards others, not doing so makes all of us look bad. I struggle with it as well.

>>25305110
>>25305116
I really wish science didn't go as far as to totally disprove the bible's version of the creation of earth and human evolution. Life would be so much more meaningful if I could still believe.

>>25305104
what does "meaning to existence" even mean to you?

>>25305131
God bless you bro
I believe in god and christ but me personally cant follow the teachings even do i tried, something in me rejects it and my life always improves when not following them

>>25305129
>christianity good
>everything else bad
>provides no interpretation or description
So you larp as a Christian because you think it's cool, but you're actually a nihilist like half the retards on this site?

>>25305133
So do it, there's no magic rule saying you have to take the Bible as a physical account and take empirical consensus as Gospel Truth. If being Christian improves life that much then by the metarational logic of evolution it's correct. Meditate on it and you'll feel your idolatry of human reason dissolve, or at least I did. Reality is bigger than reason. Reading Gödel, Zapfe, and some modern anti-consciousness reddit tier people (Blindsight by Peter Watts and (parts of) whatever the other book the "Being No One" guy wrote was called, others I forget) helped too but in a very roundabout way, I don't necessarily recommend them if you're at all prone to depression.

I'm probably explaining this poorly and I think it will sound schizo, sorry. But it truly isn't.

>>25305133
I love science and nothing could take my faith away, just research the amount of things science cant explain and the amount of scientist that believe on god

>>25305138
Life seeming to improve when not following the doctrine is the temptation of sin. You can't call yourself a Christian while worshipping Satan.

>Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him for ever.
The Westminster Shorter Catechism, answer 1.

>>25305139
Rationalizing bad living good
Thats my opinion

>>25305144
I hate satan, i dont go away from christ to sinmaxx but everytime i been the most disciplined, when life smiled at me, when i saw results of my hard work was when i prayed the least when i didnt tried to be nice to my parent when i didnt punished myself for fapping etc

>>25305154
If you want to stop fapping you have to get exercise. Start lifting weights. Punishing yourself because you're in an unnatural situation that makes it extremely hard to sin is counterproductive. Just lift weights, spend your energy elsewhere, and it'll be far easier to control.

I started with this program but you probably don't need to do as many squats unless you're very sedentary:

https://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5/

>>25305137
A goal or a belief that transcends humanity
>>25305142
>if being Christian improves life
I cannot force myself to believe in something I know deep inside me is just a cloud of lies to mask the fear of stopping to exist. The fear of nothingness
>>25305143
Science can't explain everything, yet. I despise science because it has absolutely shattered two millenias of civilisation and replaced it with nothing but it's too late. Pandora's box has been opened. We are alone.
Any sane scientist who would have gazed into the void that awaits us all would have no choice but to cling to something eternal, immortal. Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, you name it. The other choice being going insane or killing yourself.

>>25305093
lol guy
fr
touch Leaves of Grass
you are lost

>>25305161
I train bjj, i had some good streaks of not fapping mostly when my mind just registered it like something that happened instead of focusing on how much i fucked up by fapping

>>25305103
I never denied biological drives exist. I'm asking why that makes reproduction inherently valuable or morally obligatory. You never answered that. And sexual organs aren't reducible to some mystical "instruction from life"; they're evolved biological structures with multiple functions, including urination/excretion, hormonal regulation, sexual pleasure, etc. The existence of a strong biological drive does not automatically create meaning or moral duty.
Also, I'm not OP.
>>25305168
No argument? I accept your concession.

>>25305166
If the material worldview is correct then we already are nothingness, and it itself becomes nothing, and Faith is there if you choose it. I'm not really afraid of nonbeing I think, although I would certainly miss my family.

I get how you feel though, I'm sorry.

>>25305161
or you could juts not masturbate if you dont want to.
like put your dick in your pants and do something else.

>>25304843
Supposedly Wittgenstein said something like the following:

> What is the use of studying philosophy if all that it does for you is enable you to talk with some plausibility about some abstruse questions of logic, etc., and if it does not improve your thinking about the important questions of everyday life? I know that it is difficult to think well about "certainty", "probability", "perception", etc. But it is, if possible, still more difficult to think, or try to think, really honestly about your life and other people's lives.

>>25305176
another one lost
accept your concession bro are the worst people
go touch Leaves of Grass

>>25305177
Well I guess I wouldn't be anything, much less miss my family, but you get what I mean lol.

>>25305182
Still not an argument. Feel free to address any of my actual points instead of lazily defaulting to "read X". Otherwise I'll just assume you have no thoughts of your own.

>>25305191
that is a thought
you should get to know it
instead of your utterly vapid refusal to see the obvious

>>25305176
>The existence of a strong biological drive does not automatically create meaning or moral duty.
We dont understand life or why it wants to keep on living so much it bends all people and animals to want to have kids
Thats literally something that transcends humanity
Dont reply you are a retard

>>25305201
95 IQ opinion

>>25305203
*115

>>25305201
in sexuality, in the act, i touch life itself and am life itself, its vital power creating more life from the dust of the world. in reproduction i am life, a complex union of material and a mysterious vitality being bent by laws beyond to make more life. in raising a child i am life and I touch life its very self and i am like stuff of the world providing sustenance and intelligence and i can experience time from multiple angles. imagine being unable to see this?

>>25305206
That's worse

>>25305211
"You" aren't. We could turn off your consciousness and all of that would still happen based on automatic lizard brain shit. The flowery meaning you assign to reproduction is not inherent to it nor universally felt: Hence you must justify it.

For me, what justifies it is Genesis 1:27-31. It bridges the is-ought gap and sanctifies.

>>25305183
And yet in realising the nonsense of your first sentence, you found the truth.
If actions were to be judged by a heavenly tribunal or some kind of otherwordly justice, our actions would be recorded, remembered, forever, thus making each one of our actions ever more important and critical.

If there is no such a thing, and unfortunately all evidence points towards this possibility, then all our actions happen only once, and then disappear into the nether, forever inexistent. Nothing matters anymore because nothing is of consequences. The cameras are off, you could kill your family tomorrow and it would have no more impact than a wet fart. If any act, any thought, anything in our world only happens once and never again, then they might as well not have happened at all.

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>>25305201
>We dont understand life or why it wants to keep on living so much it bends all people and animals to want to have kids
we have a pretty good understanding of evolution and the deep-rooted instincts it leads to

everything you're saying seems like a way to avoid the question of consciousness, of how life actually feels, of why we try to make our lives and those of our descendants in one fashion instead of another

the realm of desires beyond the desire to reproduce is literally infinite, and it's the realm all art lives in

>>25305182
i love whitman, but what does leaves of grass have to do with any of this?

And why the fuck does meaning have to be rational? Why the fuck are you giving consciousness inherit value?
Kys

>>25305211
you describe life as a kind of ponzi scheme. 'well, no, i'm not imaginative enough to find anything meaningful in my life, but what if i created another life? ah, wait, but what would be the meaning of their life... perhaps they in turn could produce a child of their own...' ad infinitum. the question of meaning is endlessly deferred. at some point we need to accept that if creating new humans is meaningful it's because those humans create and continue something beyond mere life: culture.

>>25305196
Alright, this is getting extremely boring. It's obvious you have nothing of value to say. We'll leave it at that.
>>25305201
You're still not answering the actual point. A biological tendency being widespread, powerful or mysterious does not automatically make it morally obligatory or inherently meaningful. Gravity and death also "transcend humanity"; that tells us nothing about value. You're repeatedly confusing descriptive facts about biology with philosophical conclusions about meaning and morality.

>>25305219
Okay why did the first bacteria wanted to keep on reproducing and why is that a constant of all life?

>>25305226
>Death is not meaningfull
You are not worth talking to

>>25305218
Exactly, this is what I meant to say. My realization was just that I worded it wrong.

Once you're there it's terrifying, but God is undivided from you. You can choose to approach Him if you want. What does it matter what the evidence says, at that point? Evidence is a quasistable pattern in human neurons, unjustified inherently. You can choose.

I get what you're saying about impermanence but I don't think it's possible to know that. I am not smart enough to explain it but unknown unknowns can't be bounded and even if we had objective proof that the universe was closed under observable reality we'd have no information one way or the other on any super structures it may or may not be embedded inside of that silently record and judge, as you said. Sort of like ruseels teapot in reverse.

>>25305228
>>Death is not meaningfull
Not what I said. Horrible reading comprehension. I never said death isn't meaningful. I said the mere fact that something is universal or transcends humanity tells us nothing by itself about moral value or obligation. You're arguing against points I never made because you keep failing to distinguish between descriptive claims and normative ones.

>>25305228
>You are not worth talking to
Oh the irony

>>25305215
>>25305225
enjoy your dualistic consciousness
gotta go transcend
bye

>>25305226
imagine needing philosophy for meaning?

youre like a schoolboy mad that people dont want to go back inside and talk about the rules more before playing

>>25305251
94 IQ

Oh no he aint me nig i aint talking to your sad ass

>>25305255
the holy trinity of mid
>not an argument
>i accept your concession
>iq posting

>>25304843
>the meaning of life.
easy, having fun and being happy
"happy" is entirely subjective, happy for you could mean having children/being good at your job/helping people, but ultimtately it's reduced to living a life that makes you happy.

>>25305284
Nooo happy cant be rationalized you dont get it its not that simple reeee

>>25305284
>The meaning of life is to do what makes life meaningful
Illuminating

>>25305284
Why would happiness be the meaning of life?

>>25305251
I never said you need philosophy for meaning. But you do need it if you're going to make philosophical claims about meaning, morality and the purpose of life. You're free to find meaning however you want, but if you start making universal claims like "the purpose of life is reproduction", then yes, people are going to examine whether your argument is actually coherent.
>>25305278
You're replying to more than one person.

>>25304843
The meaning of life is love. And no, I don't mean lust or mere reproductive instinct. I mean love as a universal principle extended toward other people, nature and living beings in general.

>>25304843
>"im a complete freaking retard! Help me"
>a bunch of redditors help him
Dont help the retard guys. You got better things to do

>>25305469
Why is love the meaning of life?

>>25305470
Careful we got a gangsta over there

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>>25305490
You want meaning in life? Suck my pishadeel ya finook

>>25305484
Well, I can't logically prove it in some objective sense. But it does reduce suffering, creates connection, transcends ego, makes existence more bearable or beautiful, and allows genuine concern for beings beyond oneself. I'd choose that as a guiding principle.

>>25305069
that's subjective truth. objective truth relies on reason and evidence.
>>25305099
>So you live by reality?
In accordance with it, yes. I learn what nutrients my body needs and eat that, learn what workouts are best and do them. Learn how human society functions and promote the good and thwart evil. Learn what the best qualities are in a mate and choose wisely so I can have a harmonious family unit, etc.
It's a continual process of determining what is true, and that information will reveal how to best act in accordance with it.