I'm trans by the way, not sure if that matters

>>25317774
OP here and Naw, but it was a damn good movie and I'd like to see more like it.

Niggers do not read

Stop posting coal burners it ruins everything erotic

>>25317779
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>25317783
What are you on about?

>>25317769
There's nothing. No books like it, nothing that will scratch that itch. Enjoy being unsatisfied.

>>25317788
Fuck off troon

>>25317835
It's a still from the movie you ape

>>25317769
how about Corndog Zen?

>>25317839
Never heard of it. I'll give it a look.

it was an alright movie, kinda reminded me of my childhood where I would obsessive over stuff like totally spies and other magical girl adjacent shows sometimes randomly.
other than that its not very relatable and basically just seemed like "you will grow old and regret not doing stuff differently from your childhood" which has been a theme ive noticed alot in this type of movie (im thinking of ending things) and its not a message I find interesting. Life is more complicated than the decisions you make. The ones you can even possibly make, and why, are more important.

>>25317867
Fair enough I suppose. Have any novel recs in the vein of your thoughts on the matter then?

>>25317881
I don't really read novels much so unfortunately not brotha

>>25317769
Love the film. The ideas here are better accompolished visually than through literature, so just be content with the movie.

>>25317783
haven't seen the movie but the actor is a fag so idk if they could force him to do non gay shit.

>>25317779
Holy based, also OP is a tranny faggot

I'm thinking King's short story Everything's Eventual

You would love the video game Mixtape

>>25317835
you got him right where you want him

>>25317769
anything by William Faulkner

Go read about interior decoration

>>25318159
It is on my list. Maybe I'll move it up a few spaces.
>>25318510
How so?

>>25317769
This movie was awful

>>25318799
why?

>>25318862
I don't like transpeople because they make my pp feel weird

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>>25317769
This movie turned so many autistic people into trannies. Scary shit. I'd even dare to say that some of the people hating on it ITT realized that they got that dawg in them.
That said, couldn't you pick something else with the same themes?
>Any suggestions?
I know a book in Italian that matches perfectly that description, but you are probably from the land of burgers.
So probably picrel, although it lacks the horror bent.
If I got the vibe wrong, then know that's because I didn't watch that series.

>>25319146
>series
Movie*
Thought it was one of those woke Netflix series.

>>25319104
This is such a cope. No one's attracted to you, sir.
>>25318862
Because there's no nuance and the movie revolves around one thing entirely, dragged out to an excruciating length, with the characters constantly reminding you the movie is about that one thing. A character, after their entire relationship as far as we've seen has revolved around a tv show, says to another "do you remember that TV show we used to watch?" For a movie that's supposedly about fraught interior lives, these characters aren't given ANY interiority.
The tv show also sucked, as if the movie was mocking the very people it's meant to be sympathetic towards. I've seen Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the obvious influence for the fake show, and it is decent and it's easy to see why teenagers once liked it, as opposed to the demented Teletubby show the tranny filmmaker created for it.

>>25319146
I'd still be interested in the Italian book if you have a title, if for no other reason than to watch out for a translation. As for picking something else, sure, but it was a recent watch and what came to mind when I made the thread.

I am actually hate-reading Jane Schoenbrun’s debut novel right now. I got an advance copy. It’s a total mess

>>25319543
Oh actually? How'd you get the copy? I pre-ordered it out of curiosity.

>>25319246
The book is like this too, and one of my many big problems with Schoenbrun is that we the intelligent audience take it as a foregone conclusion that the work is a trans allegory, but Schoenbrun theyself doesn’t give they audience the credit for realizing this, rather they beat us over the head with it. Like, nigga, I know we were looking at the same posts on tumblr, I just didn’t go on HRT about it.

>>25319572
I will admit to a lack of subtlety in the storytelling, but I will also say, at risk of sounding like a fucking gen z knob, that the 'vibes' are excellent. I'm more looking for the specific sort of feeling than I am concerned specifically with the narrative.

>>25319580
That’s all that it is though and that’s what’s frustrating. I respond to the same imagery, I have the same fond memories of coming of age at the dawn of the Internet, I’m open to this aesthetic, but I also recognize how it’s just junk food bright colors. Schoenbrun’s mistake is in thinking they can simply arrange nostalgic signifiers and meaning will result, but all that actually comes across is that they are preoccupied with their own adolescence. For being so much “about media,” the work says almost nothing about the media.
There is an autogynephile trope where they say they want to experience the adolescence that was denied them, and it’s based on mistaken, sexually motivated understanding of what girls actually experience growing up. I think something similar is happening here.

>>25319554
One appeared in the office

>>25317769
It's not 100% of what you're after but Tao Lin's "Bed" hits of a lot of the tone you're looking for. Also, in all seriousness: Infinite Jest.

>>25319594
You know, you make a fair point. Honestly as much as I enjoyed the general aesthetic and trappings and, again pardon the term, 'vibes', I still want something more, a deeper interrogation of what they touch on. That might be why I want a book - I suspect a novel could delve deeper. I had reasonably high hopes for theirs (that is, Jane's), but it's frustrating to hear it's more of the same. I'll still give it a shot I'm sure, but my expectations are definitely more moderate now.

>>25319625
It’s fair to want that vibe I’m just going off on a tangent that needed to be said. I watched a strange movie years ago called The Human Surge that might interest you

>>25319246
>these characters aren't given ANY interiority.
I do agree with this at the very least. This is kind of a problem with this type of movie. Even in I'm thinking of ending things, despite the ironic fact that the girl reflects him, and we learn a lot about him through her. Its information, but not personality. We don't actually get much sense of who he was. Just what he did or liked and whatnot. Its what makes the message weak to me. Not everybody who failed at life is reasonably reducible to some superficial loser who didnt seek out healthy relationships even despite rejection actively enough. Some people had lots of relationships, and those relationships themselves inform how they engage with future relationships, or whether they dont. I think they tried to show this with his parents relationship, but honestly I barely remember anything significant about his parents other than the fact its implied that they're dumb and boring, and so the guy liked to posture as smart but he wasnt actually that smart just above average and larping or something? But that info doesn't really turn into much relevant by the end if my memory serves me right.

I still like the movie because the gimmick of the girl basically just being another reflection of him is so interesting and weird and the ways she dances between being like him and not being like him (representing his insecurities in having a girl who hes literally dating but is thinking of ending things because why would anybody want to be with him? this is my impression based on my shoddy memory) is just very cool and interesting. Even if its not particularly deep or meaningful to what its trying to depict or talk about.

I think its better than TV Glows based on my memory

>>25319638
That movie looks exactly like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks Anon.

>>25319246
>I've seen Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the obvious influence for the fake show
I would not say this. My memory is shaky, but the vibes the show is supposed to give remind me of the magical girl/super secret spy stuff I used to watch when I was younger that was clearly intended for girls. I watched buffy or atleast tried to and didnt vibe with it at all (admittedly watched it when I was much older) The fictional show evoked stuff like Kim Possible (didn't watch too much desu) Totally Spies, Winx Club, and maybe Miraculous Ladybug. But I could be wrong.

>>25318799
Would you believe his movie convinced one of my friends he was a tranny?

I don't talk to that faggot anymore, not because of the trooning out, but because he was always a shitty person and a faggot, the trooning out was the cherry on top.

>>25319656
You make a good point though that both works express a kind of millennial solipsism, and I think had Charlie Kaufman been born a generation later he’d be a lot like Schoenbrun if you know what I mean. And I didn’t feel this way prior to that movie

>>25319671
It’s important to distinguish this type of trooning from faggotry proper though since it results from the heterosexual male urge to please women at all costs

>>25319694
Elaborate

>>25319694
It's a really interesting phenomenon, people being trans, feeling trapped in the wrong body, etc. Do you think that it's a result of how pervasive media is, and how idealized the depictions of men/women tend to be when we specifically focus on popular slop? Look at the masculine ideal in Reacher, tall, buff, handsome, aggressive, capable in the extreme in various dangerous lines of work. Conversely, the sexually idealized woman as exemplified in characters like those portrayed by Sydney Sweeney: desirable, voluptuous, sensual, charismatic, able to manipulate on sex appeal alone, messy but allowed to be because of her desirability.

>>25319719
People are trans because of chemical imbalances in their brains. It's not natural.

>>25319724
First I've heard of this. You have a source? I can't imagine environmental factors play no part.

>>25319725
God said Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve with a penis.

>>25319727
I'm wondering where the idea comes from and why trans people feel compelled to pursue it. I'm saying environmental factors might play a significant part (being bombarded with idealized imagery while social isolation is becoming the norm) while you claim chem imbalance.

The trans thing is the least interesting thing about this movie, yet it seems like it is all people will talk about.

>>25319734
What do you think is the most interesting part of it then?

>>25319708
My understanding of a case like Schoenbrun is that sensitive male nerds in the 00’s and 10’s were subjected to a popular feminist discourse that instilled them with cock shame. Naturally the men most receptive to this were also the ones who least needed to hear it. Because Schoenbrun desires women but also wants to do right by them, he concludes that he can’t be a man, which is evil. This also accounts for the prevalence of nostalgia in millennial autogynephile media, this is where they turn in their flight from adult sexuality. That Jane’s work happens to be about digital media is sort of incidental, what matters is that it concerns her childhood.

>>25319719
I think this definitely has something to do with it, consider the links between autism, cartoons and the development of paraphilias in adulthood

>>25319736
The /x/ tier schizo delusions that I share. The idea that the monotony of life is so oppressive, that a tv show begins to feel like your 'real' life that you have been stripped from. That modern life is set up to produce such a profound sense of continuous melancholy, that it really does feel like demons torturing you endlessly in some manufactured world. Liminality as a mood for complete detachment from the self, which serves as a blissful escape.

+ 90s aesthetic nostalgia

>>25319734
People have been saying this since the movie came out, and based on the trailer I clocked that gag immediately, and the director’s book only confirmed all of my suspicions. Badly concealed trans allegory is in fact all they can do, maybe they don’t even realize this

>>25319757
Also, I think it does a great job depicting how time can pass, and it feels like you wasted your life.

>>25319757
So I really hate to spoil it like this, but the tv show is a metaphor for gender identity, and the implication is that trans people are special beings extra sensitive to the indignities of modern life

>>25319757
You make some good observations here. The malaise of modern life and an interior escape, whether through media or otherwise (perhaps envisioning a life radically different than one's own and obsessing over that) is one that isn't focused on enough.

>>25319775
Yeah, I am aware that exists, and was intended, and I don't care for it, but I think it serves to say a whole lot more... intentional or not. To me, it seems you have to be an active reductionist to make the trans thing the only thing you can take away from it.

>>25319780
test

>>25319780
I reject any reading of the film as being about nostalgia itself because the moral seems to be that meaning is only to be found in nostalgic tv shows from childhood. (Which is incidentally where one’s ideas about what girls are come from.) This seems clearly pathological in any context but a trans one.

>>25319778
Doesn’t Madame Bovary cover this

>>25319789
Agreed with this. I'm not with the other fellas claiming the most interesting aspect is the generic "OMG ESCAPISM". I dont believe you're an actual real human being with any interiority or capacity for processing and dwelling on experiences and values if you treat escapism legitimately.

What is more interesting to me, is to explore why children specifically love to larp so much, and what that reflects about them when they are adults. From a trans perspective theres a reason why this makes a lot of sense. Especially in the past, and especially as a child, if you have a certain inclination towards a type of behaviour or identity, and exist in an environment that is hostile to you expressing that, the only way to safely explore it, would necessarily be in another world.

>>25319794
I think it certainly focuses on one facet/particular experience of nostalgia/escapism, but it's unfair to say that the film is not preoccupied with that even when viewed through the obvious transgender lens which it's shot through. It's a common phenomenon for people to trudge through their unfulfilling lives while envisioning something else, realistic or not, for themselves.

>Clearly Pathological
I think why I like it so much. The film validates the clearly pathological.

>>25319799
>It's a common phenomenon for people to trudge through their unfulfilling lives while envisioning something else, realistic or not, for themselves.
I think thats stupid and those people are stupid. I was thinking about this earlier for some reason. It may be that I think this is stupid because the type of people that use this call back to "a time that used to be" Tend to also have the most simplistic retarded views and understanding of the world.

But also. I don't want to get personal here but the reason I say these types of persons aren't human is because, I had an experience where I was nostalgic about my childhood. And then I had another experience, where I remembered how boring and dull, and sometimes genuinely uncomfortable, or frustrating, or annoying and awkward, and sad parts of that life also where. And I realized that this thing we do with nostalgia makes no sense if you actually reflect on yourself as a person. As a child there is so many things you lack control of, cannot control what you have access to, cannot control how people percieve you, thats conditional on your parents, who's ability to control that is equally conditional on their resources, or their sensibilities. You can't control how you feel either. And there comes a point where if you think back CAREFULLY and CRITICALLY seeking not merely to "feel" but to "understand" what it was like to be a you that no longer exists, you'll realize that the desire for that unique ignorance of being a child, is not pleasant, even if you had a relatively positive childhood, it is not possible to have never been uncomfortable, to have never regretted, to have never been so different a person that it is almost a cariacature of what you are now, or even whatever you believe you could be. Its why I say you can't be human and think like that. Life is so much more complex than your memories and the weird ways it selects for specific experiences. I remember the TV shows I loved, and the friends I made more than the bad experiences I had. But without those bad experiences, I am not me. I am not human. Forcing myself to remember and consider all the negative experiences I had as a child is affirming that they weren't just for nothing, that it wasn't pointless pain and suffering that had an impact, but simultaneously is not impactful in my experience of memory.

It's complicated I won't say anymore. Life is more complicated than the narratives we make of it. And that matters more than anything you want to believe. We don't choose our experiences, and it matters for that very reason, what somebody makes of the conditions of life they have been given. If we could all choose, we would be empty hollow reflections of the ideals conditioned in us by society, is that necessarily meaningful? Is it meaningful to cut your face up into a sculpture because society says thats beautiful? No. It obviously is not.

>>25317769
I really like The Magicians, but the show is awful and people ignore the book because the show is so bad. It's entirely about ennui and lack of satisfaction at wish fulfillment within power fantasies.

>>25319831
I'd say that this is a reductive viewing of the phenomenon. Nostalgia is less concerned with the specific granular detail of a given life experience, but looking back, with an adult and better formulated lens, on all the possibility of that time. Even now when you look back you have to admit that your life had more possibility than your more recent existence. Maybe I'll go to college. Maybe I'll become a plumber. Maybe I'll move to Europe. Maybe I'll have friends and party a lot. Maybe I'll become rich. Maybe I'll make a movie. Modern life is more monotonous than what felt, even if unconsciously back then and looked at with a conscious sense now, endlessly novel. Look at Mark Fisher and his formulation of hauntology; nostalgia is not a yearning to return, it's a focus on the lost futures we all have had and discarded as seen through rose colored glasses when compared to the daily grind of modern life.

>>25319794
>OMG ESCAPISM
Again, that is kinda reductionist. I could say the what you find 'more interesting' amounts to 'OMG escapism' too. Yeah, I look down on the people who go to cons and dress up as a Mojo Jojo or as Kratos or whatever. I don't take them seriously whatsoever. I am interested i how our reality and media can induce a very literal psychosis, and how the movie even seems to legitimize psychosis over our 'reality'. I invoked /x/ for a reason.

>>25317769
>ideally touching on analogue media, with a horror bent
This is such a zoomer thing to want

>>25319738
>My understanding of a case like Schoenbrun is that sensitive male nerds in the 00’s and 10’s were subjected to a popular feminist discourse that instilled them with cock shame. Naturally the men most receptive to this were also the ones who least needed to hear it.
I would have thought this too but every male tranny I've met is like a raging misogynist, not using that term lightly. They despise women.

>>25319799
But Jane’s response to this predicament is to consume more slop and center your life around slop. Giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming the movie is a generic story offering moral edification to everyone, it would still ring false to me. I don’t think people have “tv show identities” or “gender identities.” I don’t even hate trans people in general, I just find this recent kind of gender idea really toxic

>>25319841
>I'd say that this is a reductive viewing of the phenomenon.
Well you would be wrong, so I don't really care.

>>25319857
But I think that's where the horror lies, whether they intended that or not. Simon's life is one of stagnation, self denial, and obsession. I don't think they, or anyone, is arguing you should center your life around slop, the slop is the proxy for Simon, in whatever form it would take, being true to himself.

>>25319853
I think some of that hatred maybe starts out unconscious or at least repressed, because is it revealed before or after they got a social license to begin speaking as a woman? It also depends on the age cohort, old school ex military autogynephiles were and still kind of are a thing, but i reckon the proportion of them who have actually hit a women is probably lower than it used to be. Do you specifically mean white millennial left-leaning male nerds?

>>25319862
I think she very much is saying that the world of images is realer than real life. The conceit of her new book afaict so far is that TV images are the real “beneath all possible worlds”, and that special girl individuals are selected to “live in a TV show,” somehow sustains our world, by, or in addition to, giving Hollywood writers ideas for content. Something like that. Which it you think about it can be a metaphor for how Hollywood writers give people ideas for genders lol

>>25319870
Well fuck. I haven't read it, I have no ARC or anything, but if that's the case I'm disappointed. I was hoping for something that dug deeper.

>>25319887
Maybe it’ll turn around in the next 600 pages and have an Evangelion rebuild ending about embracing reality but idk

>>25319895
Here's hoping. The Rebuild movies were fantastic.

>>25319895
>>25319897
>Evangelion Rebuild
Yikes... well, it is comforting to realize you have better taste than someone when debating them.

>>25319926
I enjoyed them. What did you find fault with? I'd also say it was more of a discussion than a debate but you do you.

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>>25319853
The chud and the tranny are two sides of the same coin of outliers that should, according to history, be the ones fixing society and making it better. Its almost like the transtrender movement was a calculated pre emptive attack on the self correcting forces of human civilization to retard them with division. That's my opinion anyway.

>>25319926
It is germane because Anno was addressing a similar cohort of male nerds, and where he tells them to put down the anime and embrace life, Jane wants you to double down, fall in love with an image, spend the rest of your life in a futile effort to force reality to conform

>>25319944
You are right, it was mostly an intelligent discussion. I was just being an asshole in the moment due to a specific older comment. It was unwarranted.

>>25319988
All good, trust me I should be the last person to criticize someone for being prickly online

>>25319952
What are you talking about?

>>25317769
>>25318762
Please, please, please be bait. I refuse to believe that one of (you) is actually here earnestly asking for recs adjacent to such a film.
>>25319246
>sir
If it is, it's impeccable bait. There are three types of people who say sir on the internet
>Jeets
>Redditors
>Autistic girls (Tumblr, Steven Universe, Undertale, FNAF, circuses, non-binary)
Your taste and word choice scream quirky autisic girl, I am inclined to believe your real, which is horrifying.
>Interiority
Christ. Next you'll be talking about media literacy.
Please go back to Tumblr, Xitter, Reddit or wherever else you crawled from and they will give you a left wing video essay about which books are the most similar to your autistic gay film.

>>25320052
I'm 95% sure you're responding to three different people Anon. I know because I'm one of them.

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>>25317769
>suburban isolation/malaise
You must read Less Than Zero. It's not precisely what you are describing, I think, but you might enjoy it.

>>25320121
The Shards is probably better for sinking into a neon coated horror vibe.
>>25320052
I don't even really get what or who you're lashing out at. You attack people liking the film, you attack someone attacking the film. Get it together.