He said pleasure is the true good but he also said the chief pleasures in life are love and freedom, and that sensual indulgence actually undermines freedom because it makes us addicted, dependent and physically enfeebled
>>25324429judaic semites hated him
He pissed off the Christians and the pagan trads when he said this so everything he ever wrote got burned.
>>25324432Only someone who spends every waking moment of their life alleviating unjust suffering has the right to complain about the supposed inaction of the gods.>why doesn't Y do XWhy don't YOU?
>>25324443Epicurus wasn't attacking gods though, just our conception of them. According to Epicirus gods are defined by being all-happy, and he says if they actually followed what humans were doing and sought to manage it, that would interfere with their happiness, and so, he said, they were simply not omniscient. But he considered hypothetical gods as role models since they were driven purely by love (of each other) and freedom, the primary forms of happiness
>>25324429Same reason why stoics get hated. No one likes to read anymore. Its over.But bump
>>25324429He was based and made christkeks seethe forever
>>25324432>>25324524The stoics btfo of epicurus before the Christians even fpund out about him
>>25324432>my tummy hurts. God isn’t real. Woah .
>>25324429if you have a large enough stick in your ass pleasure and good and up meaning the exact same thing, violating the law of specification
>>25324429Because the current philosophical environment we live in, especially here on this board, approaches metaphysics and ontology with the assumption that at the end they will reach some kind of transcendental Truth which will empower them. It’s a classic Neoplatonist/Christian approach which is only reinforced by academic factionalism and Oedipal concerns of philosophers to differentiate themselves from their predecessors. Philosophy has become the game of who can produce the neatest and most profound metaphysical abstraction for everyone else to gawk and wonder at. The two most influential philosophers of modernity, Nietzsche and Heidegger, are so because they escape this pointless academic theurgy and refocus the attention of their work on an axiology in the end which is what the ancients always understood. The Greeks always knew that the end goal of any system of metaphysics or ontology was an axiology. That’s why when asked how to live a good life Plato gave a lecture on geometry. The Pythagorean metaphysics which the late Plato believed was specifically designed to answer that question and so for him the answer was obviously metaphysical. It’s only because we divorce ethics and metaphysics from one another like branches on a tree and not bricks in a stack that it seems so out of left field to us. Epicurus is hated because we find it disgusting that he is so unabashedly concerned with his axiology and nothing else. That philosophy might be a practice and not an intellection is also another thing which our culture struggles with.
>>25325416>the neatest and most profound metaphysical abstractiondo you not mean actuality?
bump
>>25324429Stoics. A lot of what we know of Epicureans comes from Stoics, who hated them and spread slander which later spread to Christians and Jews, who used the word Epikoros to mean heretic.
>>25324456Without the gods nothing at all would exist, they are the reality of the possibility of moving left and right or up and down, or moving at all, they are dimension itself. They are desire and happiness. Every verb and noun is a God.
>>25324429Because people want answers on le meaning of existence and epicurus dismisses that as retarded shit and instead focuses on what actually matters i.e. how to live a life that isn't miserable
Epicurus is trash because he's an annihilationist. Buddhist metaphysics are far more coherent than whatever flat earth tier bullshit Epicurus was peddling back in the day.
>>25326432>A lot of what we know of Epicureans comes from Stoics, who hated them and spread slander which later spread to Christians and JewsBut somehow you know the REAL, AUTHENTIC Epicurus was heckin' based, right?
>>25325416Great post.
>>25326851He said nothing of the sort. Don't be a child
>>25324429I think people would greatly benefit from seriously studying and practicing his principle doctirines as a baseline to good living. Contrary to what the philosophical schools themselves think i think its completely compatible with adding a further Stoic/Platonic/Religious/Existential layer of contemplation on top of that. His doctrines should form a baseline of practice that purifies away baseless anxieties, fears, and desires to allow you to pursue a deeper truth. Many religious or philosophical ideas are too mired in petty fearmongering, disciplinary anxieties and cheap promises of eternal rewards. If you believe in your faith because of fear of hell and desire for heaven, you believe in an empty, superficial way. If you can only be temperate Stoic by accepting that nature has a plan for you and nature is Good, you are tricking yourself. And if you are only Platonist because it allows you to believe the soul immortal, to ward off your fear of death, you are also tricking yourself.
>>25326881I'm free to interpret that post however the fuck I want.
>>25326891>If you believe in your faith because of fear of hell and desire for heaven, you believe in an empty, superficial way. If you can only be temperate Stoic by accepting that nature has a plan for you and nature is Good, you are tricking yourself. And if you are only Platonist because it allows you to believe the soul immortal, to ward off your fear of death, you are also tricking yourself.>You can only be a materialist otherwise you are not being truthfulI see, so this is truly the philosophy for corporatized McMindful bugmen. Horrifying implications.
Without universal principles (gods) every statement is as hoc, a non sequitur, begging the question, arbitrary, happenstantial, aka nihilism.But Epicurus was more consistent and honest than Buddhists who are either crypto epicureans (theravada) or stoics (monists) in denial.
>>25326897>But Epicurus was more consistent and honest than BuddhistsEpicurus was an idiot, so honesty is barely a virtue when you don't know you're the one babbling incoherently.
>>25326896Note that i am not saying you cannot or should not believe in these concepts at all. Just not for the wrong reasons. Your implicit dichotomy of fearful religious obedience and corporatized McMindful bugmen is very telling, but i suppose fitting for what i assume is an american.
>>25326911>Just not for the wrong reasons.Tautology + Begging the question.>Your implicit dichotomy of fearful religious obedience and corporatized McMindful bugmen is very telling, but i suppose fitting for what i assume is an american.Word salad.
>>25326712Haha this is just like deadpool saying cheese is God! Unicorn!
>>25326919Maybe you should eat some more salad if thats already too much for you bud
>>25326847I cannot believe it's 2026 and people still believe that something actually happens when you die. Don't be a retard anon.
>>25326893Correct, much as I interpret yours to be the result of excessive semen ingestion.
>Yet your Epicurus tells us that he is utterly at a loss to know what nature or qualities are assigned to this Morality by those who make it the measure of the Chief Good. For if Morality be the standard to which all things are referred, while yet they will not allow that pleasure forms any part of it, he declares that they are uttering sounds devoid of sense (those are his actual words), and that he has no notion or perception whatever of any meaning that this term Morality can have attached to it. In common parlance 'moral' (honourable) means merely that which ranks high in popular esteem. And popular esteem, says Epicurus, though often in itself more agreeable than certain forms of pleasure, yet is desired simply as a means to pleasure. Do you realize how vast a difference of opinion this is? Here is a famous philosopher, whose influence has spread not only over Greece and Italy but throughout all barbarian lands as well, protesting that he cannot understand what Moral Worth is, if it does not consist in pleasure; unless indeed it be that which wins the approval and applause of the multitude.
>>25327158What an idiot.
>>25324429Because he was wrong about what the true pleasures are (according to most) so the first proposition there has horrific implications.>>25324432Based, they should have burned more.
>>25327158Kind of got to agree with Epicurus. Cicero championed the patricians who lived on the misery of enslavement of debtors and foreclosing on property. All this Cicero considered beautiful, righteous, noble--Moral. Yet he shrieks like a little bitch when Epicurus dares to point out why it is actually called Moral.
>>25324429Because what he was trying to desperately say is that you can achieve happiness by not being a retarded, but 99% of people are retarded and will forever be retarded. The hedonist because they will become slaves of passions, the religious because they can't live for themselves. And now we have the "intellectuals" that will spend their entire lives talking about how to achieve a good life without ever living one themselves. He was too powerful.
>>25326936>I cannot believe it's 2026 and people still believe that something actually happens when you die.I agree that Epicureans are the philosophical equivalent to Rick & Morty fans, but where's the argument? >Don't be a retard anon.Dependent origination is closer to a true belief than Epicurean atomism ever was, you absolute mouth-breathing crayon-chewing trog.
faggot philosophy for atheistrannies.
>>25327435I imagine you fanned yourself as you said "horrific"
>>25326897>Without universal principles (gods) every statement is as hoc, a non sequitur, begging the question, arbitrary, happenstantial, aka nihilism.And it's the same with gods. The first such statement is "this god exists."
>>25327537Then I guess you'd better pray for them, Christcuck.
>>25326881He seems to have been implying it
>>25327650I imagine you curling your mouth in something halfway between a snarl and a smug grin and pulling your shirt down over your belly, rocking side to side, as you wrote this.
>>2532787285 IQ Brazilian detected
>>25327884You forgot "beastly"
>>25324429Kind of incredible to see the NPCs scripts short circuit in this thread. only got a single line programmed in for atheist and now theyre calling a philosopher from 300 BCE we only got fragmentary writings of 'reddit.' He aint got internet man.
>>25327948Hs denied Christ, that's the very definition of reddit
>>25327885That's not very Christian of you, is it?Now get on your fucking knees, godcuck.
>>25327962>godcuckYou're an epicurean. Your whole philosophy is being a cucked slave to the senses.
So... anyone here read On the Nature of Things? Anyone here... read?
>>25327948>and now theyre calling a philosopher from 300 BCE we only got fragmentary writings of 'reddit.'Democritus and Epicurus were reddit as fuck when you compare them side by side to process monist bvlls such as the likes of Heraclitus.
>>25326919Amerisharts should remain silent on discussions pertaining to philosophy
>>25324443>Only someone who spends every waking moment of their life alleviating unjust suffering has the right to complain about the supposed inaction of the gods.>>why doesn't Y do X>Why don't YOU?the purpose of america is to take up all the time and energy of good men so that they can do nothing but work to survive then give everything they produce to bad men so they can stay hedonistic and never question it
>>25329046>>25329079>eurocuntBlah blah blah.All you have is effeminately passive-aggressive snide remarks and stupid fucking quips. >>Your implicit dichotomy of fearful religious obedience and corporatized McMindful bugmen is very tellingWord salad.
>>25328280/lit/ doesn't read
>>25329096Americans are evangelical retards that believe angels are real, worship Israel and live in a capitalist hellscape. I can see why Ancient Greek philosophy on how to find happiness through a simple life wouldn't appeal to you. Go stand outside a McDonalds with a sign telling people the end is near or whatever you nutcases do
>>25329370So speaketh the thirdie
>>2532941970% of american adults think angels are real. you are the thirdies my nigga
>>25329370>>25329847>Americans are evangelical retards that believe angels are realYour daddy Epicurus believed in Gods btw, but you'll cope and say he'd be le based fedora today in your next response.
>>25328277>he thinks all pleasures are sensory
