The performative reader’s final boss
kek it do be like that
Pound was a performative man.
>>25326397As someone who reads in public a lot and quite enjoys Ezra Pound, if I saw someone reading The Cantos in public I would for sure roll my eyes and cropdust as I passed by.
"Cantos" is a hilariously overused term
how so? wouldn't normies/foids think you're a fascist chud for reading him?
I will only try and seriously tackle this for historical reasons but just reading the first canto has my eyes in the back of my head.
>>25326397I'd like to Pound Ezra's Cantos if you know what I mean
>>25326397You have a lot of pounds on youself
>>25326445You couldn't fart on command if you tried, despite your wearying BMI.
>>25326397>Let's name our boy Arze Dnuop>No, dear, that sounds like "arse" and nonsense>What about Ezra Pound?>Perfect.
>>25327605Seek psychiatric help. Immediately.
>>25327612No.
>>25326397Lay down the pounds, fatty
>>25326397If you read Pound, the arthoes gon' let you pound. If you read St. Augustine, arthoes gon' call HR or somethin'. If you read Blake, arthoes gon' do a double-take. If you read Milton, an arthoe will pause her Alex Chilton. If you read Marx, she might take down: 'Give this boy extra marks!' If you read Thomas Sowell, she'll defy you by selling her soul. If you read Tolstoy, she'll defy you by dancing on a pole at night. If you read Dostoevsky, she'll think you're deep and give you something to remember she.
>>25328051Nabokov, she'll hobnob on the knob?
>>25326397>The performative reader’s final bossIt's a very dense read that requires you to be already broadly read before you get anything out of it, so I would say it's the opposite of performative reading.
>>25328181you're assuming its readers are understanding it
>>25326397Performative readers exclusively stick to the safe canon of classics, so they aren't going to read a fucking out and proud fascist like Pound.
>>25328051If you read Shakespeare, the arthoe will reveal her spear.
>>25328051if you read Joyce she'll think you're one of the boyce
>>25328181>It's a very dense read that requires you to be already broadly read before you get anything out of it
>>25328051LIT-GAME 101If she catches you reading Ezra PoundThe art-hoe’ll let you stroke her mound.If you smile while perusing Emily DShe’ll invite you home for a coffee or three.If you walk round campus with Saint AugustineIt’s art-hoe crust you’ll soon be bustin’.If you quote from ‘Autumn’ by little John KeatsShe’ll offer you employment between her sheets.If she spots you with ‘Slouching’ by Mrs Joan DidionShe’ll follow you from Fiji to the Greenwich Meridian.If you take your coffee with a chapter of CervantesYou’ll soon be familiar with her taste in panties.If you ask in a bookshop for Wallace StevensThe odds of a threesome are better than evens.If you whisper in her ear from DostoevskyShe’ll squeal so loudly she’ll turn you deafski.If you sit in a café with the works of ChaucerThere’s nothing so lewd that you’ll have to force her.If you tell her you’re RE-reading Marcel ProustShe’s already three-quarters to being seduced.If she finds on your bookshelf a well-thumbed MiltonShe’ll book you a room in her private Hilton.If she sees you with ‘Ada’ by Vladimir NShe’ll want to be signed with your big pink pen.
>>25328853very nice
>>25326445only okay if you're attractive>>25326397Also how the fuck does bro make his poetry about economics or whatever? Did he know anything about economics
>>25328276Inasmuch as we‘re only judging a handful of lines from presumably much larger works in either case you are severely out of your depth if you can‘t detect the much, much stronger cadence in the second example.
>>25326397The idea of performative reading probably comes from the christians that can’t read owing to the cause that reading were performing the act to reading understand that these christians that can’t read though i only have some evidence are the same christian’s who can not read who that advanced the idea that virtue signaling were wicked behavior and that virtue signaling were sinful and the while these christians who cannot read who do not believe onto civic virtue were making some plan to wreck civic virtue by advancing this christians that cannot read notion psyop about virtue all the while virtue as an idea were were some public act and that virtue as an act was concerned with civic virtue so this idea were virtue signaling or bad or not desirable for communities were obviously wrong and mistaken became virtue signaling were just proper communication taking place and the christians who cannot read were obviously mistaken about some ideas possibly from the result probably of not being able to read and pound probably the best critic to pound were hugh kenner and the pound era i ought to claim at the end here now or something like that
>>25331125thanks you turned me into a schizo
>>25328181
>>25331365Savage. It's true, I like the idea of the Cantos more than the work itself. Ezra Pound is the consummate academic who couldn't do the thing himself and overcompensated.
>>25331365Fucking brvtal.
>>25331365Some truth in it and of course lots of fun to read but he's unfair to almost everyone he dislikes (i.e. almost everyone), in those essays.>>25331376>It's true, I like the idea of the Cantos more than the work itself.This is how anyone sensible feels, I think.>Ezra Pound is the consummate academic who couldn't do the thing himself and overcompensated.This isn't quite fair. The infuriating thing about EP is that he *could* do the thing himself, sometimes, in flashes. Sort of. There are wonderful lines, couplets, phrases all over the place. Even a few good stanzas. One or two great poems. But he certainly never got it together for the Magnum Opus.
>>25331365This is by?
>>25331431It's Robert Graves "The Crowning Privilege"
>>25331422>This isn't quite fair. The infuriating thing about EP is that he *could* do the thing himself, sometimes, in flashes. Sort of. There are wonderful lines, couplets, phrases all over the place. Even a few good stanzas. One or two great poems. But he certainly never got it together for the Magnum Opus.yes and he reminds me of james russell lowell on these grounds
More like The Cuntos That I'hve Pound
>>25331376co sign.Amis (sr.) did a pretty good stroke on him in a letter to the editor>behaving sufficiently like a great poet to gull the gullible.
>>25326397The Cantos make you strong like a Roman,They tell you to do the augury and say the omen,That civilisation is in its great decline,That blood will be spilt like a spilt wine.The Italians did it better than the others,That is why they rightfully conquered us,All canadians now go read Pound's CANTO 73,And learn that the New World is poison and a flaw.When Germans conquered in the Great War thenThey crucified a Canadian and they were againRight to do it as Romans were to Jesus.Catholics are good scholars but religion unmakes us.We live in hard times and ask for strong men.Ezra Pound could deadlift twice thatOf Hemingway, and spoke more languagesThan you, and knows that USURA,USURA destroyed John Adams' America.WITH USURA has no man his house of goodStone, for good stone is not seen as fit forSale unless it is adulterated into facade,WITH USURA are condoms made of plastic instead of sheepgut,So that man hath no experience of sodomy whilst in the performannce of coitus,And so is deprived of his Roman heritage.WIRH USURA are strong men weak, for the Zodiac and 易經 point to the hard times,Turning to face the strange, 貴利A lamplight, red whiteHeliogaba(harpes et)luzFleecing the rhapsodistsπαρὰ φύσιν, para phusinWITH USURA is man destroyed. And the Spartan bronze cracks in his hands.Do not take my money out of this city.This is why men read Ezra Pound,While they are in Puget Sound,Because it makes you tough and strongAnd your poetic mind can do no wrong.Pick up the Cantos and read today,So that
>>25326450Normies does not know who the fuck Ezra Pound was
>>25331376>Ezra Pound is the consummate academic who couldn't do the thing himself and overcompensated.>>25331436Robert Graves, the well known writer of historical fiction.
>>25332983>the number one google result quote if you look up poundwow never thought of that.
>>25331365I once read that the jewess Susan Sontag was dismayed that academia picked Pound over Eliot and I chalked it up to her being a jewess. But then I read that the first Canto was just him translating translations of The Odyssey line by line and I was like lmao.I guess the publishing industry had no problem with promoting his style of pastiche that looks intellectual at first glance, but they couldn't push him as a figure because he was an "evil chud".
>>25333011
>>25331365>barbaric yawpI'm guessing this is where the Hellion's move from Darkest Dungeon comes from.
>>25333011>>25333046Choosing Eliot as the desired foil is strange considering his magnum opus rises so far above the rest of his work specifically owing to Pound.
>>25326397why is there a drawing of a dude fucking a dog on the spine?
>>25331543gay as fuck
>>25331487Does he expect to be taken seriously when the source of half his reference is a "We live in a society" hack like Orwell?
>>25333066Some haunting blank verse passages in The Waste Land, but ruined by Pound’s blue-pencilling.
>>25333046bizarre Melville take
>>25333073Orwell might be an overrated novelist but he's a fine writer of non-fiction and literary critic.
>>25333142Didn’t dislike Melville the same way he disliked Pound obviously, but I think it’s a fairly shrewd reading.
>>25333066Eliot's works are good in spite of Pound's influence. If anything, he salvaged Pound's style.
>>25326397>The performative reader’s final bossI agree with Nabokov on this point.
>>25333253Would like to read this entire analysis, what’s it from? The same text mentioned earlier in the thread?
>>25331436>Robert GravesAnd we should consider this fag because...? I remember trying some myths book from him and throwed it in disgust, trying to shove their fethises and mommy kinks on chad mythos, gtfo grimey
>>25333268Kingsley Amis’ essay ‘Sacred Cows’, though I don’t know how you’d find it. I read it in his Selected Non-Fiction.
>>25331365holy fucking filtered>poetry has to be completely technically correctUnironic fucking moron, I'm glad Pound made so many rigid old farts stuck in traditional lanes of poetry so assblasted
>>25333066Sontag despised Pound because his poems were very open to interpretation. Since they are a mishmash of whatever classical text he could find around, they can be seen as cryptic and there's nothing a modern critic loves more than interpreting a text. Eliot took a more straightforward approach of Pound's style, removing that veil of "mysticism" and leaving little room to interpretation in the process.Compare Burn Norton to Canto I. The former is a reflection on mortality and the passage of time set around an excursion of the manor with the same name. You don't need to look for symbolism or metaphors to see it, all you need is to pay attention to the text. Canto I, as mentioned before, is a pastiche. There's no deeper meaning in there, rather, it gives the impression that the reader is supposed to built one even if is not the case.>>25333283He's right. Pound was a stepping stone to the contemporary style of conceptual poetry where the author's race or ethnicity are more important than the poems themselves.
>>25333299and the poetry before Pound was a stepping stone to Pound, therefore the poetry before Pound was also a stepping stone to Rupi Kaur. See what your sophistry gets you? Really though, Pound was too avant-garde for most people at the time so they coped with "umm, he's not using the heckin proper meter!" Don't give a fuck, meter and the purely technical properties of a poem are ultimately irrelevant to its quality, and if you think they are, you're a fucking retard straight up.
>>25333283>a poem doesn’t have to make senseThe main complaint was about substance and pretension: strip away the performance and transgressive difficulty and what’s left is something quite conventional and thin.
>>25333280found it here if anyone else is interestedhttps://cdn.penguin.co.uk/dam-assets/books/9780141195308/9780141195308-sample.pdf
>>25333309>and the poetry before Pound was a stepping stone to Pound, therefore the poetry before Pound was also a stepping stone to Rupi KaurNo, you dumb manchild.Pound is directly responsible for the frivolous "anything is poetry style" that opened the doors to Kaur. Yeats and Browning had a style very distinctive from Pound, which still required technical mastery and which he replaced with random quotations from classical sources. Their influence was thin on Pound, but Pound influence in those who followed his steps was more prominent and less distinct because all they did was removing the quotations without offering anything in exchange.
>>25333011>I read that theImplying you didn't read the Cantos and are still just operating on academic he-said-she-said shitflinging. Evidently /lit/ is incapable of reading.
>>25333360>still required technical masteryYou keep proving yourself to be a retard stuck into autistic modes of thinking when it comes to poetry, and have thus outed yourself as not capable of understanding it.
>>25333309>meter and the purely technical properties of a poem are ultimately irrelevant to its qualityMore relevant than random allusions thoughbeit
>>25333366>>25333375You keep proving yourself to be a resentful manchild hellbent on destroying tradition while relying on ad hominen because you have no discernable talent, and thus are unable to create something beautiful.
>>25333299>Pound was a stepping stone to the contemporary style of conceptual poetry where the author's race or ethnicity are more important than the poems themselves.Whitman*
>>25333406I have published (not self-published but published-published) two novels. What have you done? Do you yourself have any discernible talent other than screeching at one of the greatest poets in American history?
>>25333406>destroying traditionDestroying tradition how exactly? Pound went ahead and invoked dozens upon dozens of different styles and forms of poetry from both eastern and western traditions across the entirety of recorded history for the Cantos, which is itself meant to serve as a historical document through verse. The whole point of the Cantos is that it laments the killing of tradition. Are you positing that by foregoing conventional meter Pound is killing tradition? What of Milton (using blank verse), Blake (using free verse sometimes), Whitman (using free verse almost exclusively), Dante (writing in Italian instead of Latin), Robinson Jeffers, Mallarme, Rimbaud? Are you telling me that Pound's take on the Seafarer, directly mimicking the alliterative verse style of the Old English poetry of its time, is indicative of a killing of tradition? This grievance of yours is so nonsensical; you couldn't have chosen a worse candidate to level it at than the guy whose entire mission statement was trying to vivify traditional poetry and culture and infuse it with new life. Not to mention that whatever Pound gave up by way of traditional meter he more than made up for in the way of prosody, rhythm, and euphony. His translations in Cathay, his adaptations of Arnaut Daniel's verse, the Seafarer, and the first section of the Cantos alone are head and shoulders above the vast majority of the western poetical canon. Does tradition start and end with iambic/trochaic pentameter with you?
>>25333433>>25333464>ad hominen
>>25333474I accept your concession
>>25333464>Are you positing that by foregoing conventional meter Pound is killing tradition? What of Milton (using blank verse)NTA but what? Blank verse is written in consistent metre. Paradise Lost is almost oppressively metrical.
>>25333433I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda
>>25333485But using blank verse wasn't traditional at the time (actually it was quite contrary to prevailing tastes and tendencies of Milton's era). In fact it was quite radical, especially because it was used to write an epic, which traditionally employed rhyme.
>>25333497Historically wrong on multiple levels. Homer and Virgil obviously didn’t rhyme. And blank verse was the dominant form of Elizabethan drama, used in the 16th century by Surrey for his Aeneid translation. By Milton it had been a major form for over a century.
>>25333512Good thing Homer and Virgil weren't of Milton's era. And good thing I specified that I meant using blank verse for epics and not drama. You dumb fuck
>>25326397What is a canto?
>>25333514>an epic, which traditionally employed rhyme.your words.>epic specificallyConveniently dropped your original claim that blank verse was ‘contrary to prevailing tastes’. I already had you there anyway: it was invented to be used for an epic (the Aeneid, which I mentioned).
>>25333532>your words.An epic written in *English*. If you want to play this stupid game then the entirety of Anglo poetry should be discarded as "non-traditional" and "degenerate" because it's not written in dactylic hexameter. This is such a stupid and disingenuous line of argument and you know it.>that blank verse was ‘contrary to prevailing tastes’Contrary to prevailing tastes and tendencies of Milton's era when it came to longform epic poetry, yes. His contemporaries (and others even for a while afterwards) criticized Milton for writing PL in blank verse. Certain poets even tried rewriting and adapting PL into rhymed verse.
>>25333540The original claim was just ‘contrary to prevailing tastes,’ no qualification. Even after moving goalposts you’re still shaky: Gondibert, blank verse epic; Cowley’s work also. The idea that Paradise Lost landed as a shocking formal rupture in English epic is just not borne out.
>>25333550>Gondibert, blank verse epicExcept that it had a rhyme scheme. Lol.From Canto 1:>OF all the Lombards, by their Trophies known,>Who sought Fame soon, and had her favour long,>King Aribert best seem'd to fill the Throne;>And bred most bus'ness for Heroick Song.>CowleyExcept that it also rhymed.From Book 1:>I sing the man who Judah's sceptre bore>In that right hand which held the crook before;>Who from best poet, best of kings did grow;>The two chief gifts Heav'n could on man bestow.Whoops
>>25333477>jeet hominen
>>25333360>Their influence was thin on Pound, That‘s a pretty bold claim considering that Pound literally worked for Yeats as a means to study under him/confer on poetry and the two would have periodically overlapping direction for decades to come. But I know what you really mean is just "Pound doesn‘t write in metre, also no free verse poet before Pound even as far as Whitman can be scrutinized for their influence."
>>25333474You lost so hard
>>25331487>With Prof Kermode's implied assessment of Robert Lowell as fit to stand alongside Pound I for one have no quarrelKek
>>25333406>muh ad hominemsYou were the first one to use one by the way, calling me a dumb manchild. the projection is evident.
>>25333011>>25333299I do not value the opinions of a dead kike that helped cement the idea among the leaders of western civilization that white people are ontologically evil.
>>25326397the can of rockstar just out of frame lol
bump
Can someone explain this "performative man" meme going around lately?
>>25334657No one believes other people have the ability to read books because they themselves can't, so anyone they see reading in public must be faking it. That said, often times people are just trying to look like something to others that they aren't actually, which includes reading harder books than they genuinely enjoy in front of others, etc. So it's a real thing.
>>25333433E.L. James is a published author. That doesn't make her an authority on Ezra Pound. You can't justify your retarded ideas with >muh authorship.
>>25334657The average male >current year is an illiterate, at best capable of reading the Netflix adaptation of One Piece. At the same time the powers that be have not yet managed to erase intelligence as a desirable trait in men. This forces said illiterate to pretend to read Ezra Pound (of all things) in an attempt to gain access to a girls mound. It's unclear how common this actually is, and if it actually works.
>>25334657
>>25334669That DOES look performative, especially given the book and author. Girls can snoop out a poser.
>>25334669>literally points to the cover of the bookIt's a skit, a gag, a goof, a jest, a jive, a holler, a hooternanny, a prank, a.....I've run out of synonyms but you get my point
>>25334668It's just women's projection, they can't read -> if men read it means that men don't actually read and are pretending too>>25334671who cares nigga, I would reckon whatever guy she was talking about (didn't watch the video) didn't actually exist
>>25334676>I've run out of synonyms but you get my pointCould you elaborate?
>>25334679I live in Portland. I read in public all the time. Almost everyone else I see reading in public is a woman. But from time to time I do see another guy.
>>25334681Grug think all people in magic moving cave painting are putting on funny performance for Grug and tribeMe think all people are having laugh
>>25334683The women who read aren't making videos about how men are allegedly pretending to read to impress women. Also I reckon that no guy would take a book with him outside, since I always read indoor.
>>25334684Appreciated.
>>25334689>Also I reckon that no guy would take a book with him outside, since I always read indoor.I ride the bus, so I read it while waiting or riding. Plus I walk to the library to read.
>>25334665I only brought it up to refute the absurd notion that because I like Ezra Pound I must have no talent and have never produced anything. You have very little comprehension. Keep screeching.
>>25333253Literary criticism really is just saying retarded nonsense.
>>25333011Eliot hated Jews as much as Pound did
>>25335809if you want the good good, skip to authors on authors. academics are only good for explaining references in footnotes.
In case you couldn't tell, everyone in this thread dunking on Ezra Pound is a leftist and is motivated mostly by leftist politics. If Pound were a communist you can bet we would never hear the end of it. You can very easily tell they're leftists because they cite and mimic someone else's criticism rather than making a critique in their own voice. It's a classic appeal to authority, and everyone they appeal to just so happens to be a far leftist. Rightists tend to trust their own judgment, and don't need to invoke authority figures.Examples:>>25331487Amis literally joined the Communist Party.>>25331365Graves became a socialist after World War I>>25333011Sontag is a well known leftist Jewish feminist.Though there was actually a few leftists that liked Pound! Most notably, Allen Ginsberg. Perhaps this is because Ginsberg, unlike the others mentioned here, was not a snob or academic type, but a down to earth Beat. One might suspect that a dilettante like Pound makes the academic types feel insecure.
>>25335914>everyone in this thread dunking on Ezra Pound is a leftist and is motivated mostly by leftist politicsNah. This post sounds like a poor attempt by the marxjeet to make "chuds" side with Pound, down to the capitalized jewish and the jeet spacing.I hate jews and commies as much as he did as well as millennials, trannies and jeets and I still think his works are shit and so does anyone who appreciates beauty and poetry.I denounce the talmud, vishnu, trans rights and marx, now you do the same.
>>25335926In ABC of Reading Pound encourages comparing two poems side by side. Here are two poems by undisclosed authors. What do you think? No cheating!
>>25335914>Amis literally joined the Communist Party.in his first week at Oxford basically as a way of defying his parents, and left the morning after he joined the army (1942) - he was (in?)famously an archetype conservative most his career. >Graves became a socialist after World War Ifor a very brief period, owning largely to disillusionment. As anyone who’s read him will know: RG was never really political.Convenient that Ginsberg is one of the good ones. There are some unsavoury things we could point out about him.
>>25335935oh shi-- uh, um, they both suck! phew.I think they're both nice. Not great, but nice.
>>25335954Once a leftist always a leftist, and redeemable to the left, if they are high status enough. I wouldn't trust anyone's self conception of their own politics. A leftist psychology doesn't vanish even if one has a surface level change of heart over some trivial issue. The issue is specifically about whether one is an institutionalist or not. To say that someone is not a "real" poet presupposes that the poet label can only be bestowed upon one by the priestly caste, and that itself is a leftist move regardless if one claims they are conservative. Ginsberg treats the poet as a mystic, not a priest. This is a metaphysically right wing conception of the poet, his leftist personal politics aside. We're not talking about morality and not making moral judgments so I don't care if someone is or is not a pedophile, it's irrelevant. The criticism applies the same to the posters in this thread. By making appeals to authority they implicitly minimize the value of their own judgments and defer to the priestly caste. That is again, a leftist move. I'm sure it's just a coincidence Pound is the chuddiest of all Chud poets and is vociferously attacked by approximately half of the thread. I've never seen someone attack say, John Donne in this manner.
>>25336000>I don't care if someone is or is not a pedophile, it's irrelevant.ah I see.Isn’t almost everyone a lefty for a time in there first year at uni?Amis was pretty outspoken. You can find political essays or his appearance on William F Buckley. A good friend and collaborator of Robert Conquest, who Bush awarded the medal of freedom or something. The leftists charge is a pretty funny one. And Graves turned down a knighthood because he said it’d be ‘ridiculous’ for a poet to accept it. Wasn’t Pound pretty well-liked around here? I started reading his style guide on /lit/‘s recommendation before I knew any better. That’s sort of the point Amis was getting at in his opening sentence>One has grown used to seeing assertions that Ezra Pound is not only a great poet, but universally accepted as such
a lot of the modernists were right wingers, ts elliot was a right winger too.leftoids hated that shit, they finally got a champion with james joyce.to understand pound you have to comprehend his ideogrammic method>The ideogrammic method is a literary technique pioneered by poet Ezra Pound that expresses abstract concepts through the juxtaposition of concrete images, historical particulars, and fragments. It conveys meaning through visual and thematic resonance rather than logical, narrative transitions
>>25336023Yes. I can't believe it needs to be explained still, in current year +11, that poems don't need to "make sense." If you have a soul a heart or a brain you should intuitively understand this but some people think a poem is only good if it rhymes. It's actually PSYCHO how retarded and soulless a lot of people are, but then again the one guy screeching and flinging his shit about Pound being le bad in this thread is certifiably an Indian guy. Hi Indian guy!
>>25335935>>25335987>refuses to denounce vishnuheh
Those posts are guaranteed to be by the same person. The jeet truly went into schizo mode after being called out.>>25335914 25335935 25335954 25335987 25336000 25336017 25336023 >>25336061
>>25336061>I can't believe it needs to be explained still, in current year +11, that poems don't need to "make sense."I’ll let this statement stand for itself.
