Adorno was a stupid plant who got stuck on neokantianism and forgot to read anything and everything after them.

>>25335368
reading through this now. thanks for posting.

no thoughts yet, but this seemed interesting:
>At the same time, however – and this touches on the antagonistic character of the new nationalism, or right-wing extremism – there is something fictitious about it if one looks at the grouping of the world of today into these few oversized blocs, where the individual nations and states really play only a secondary part. ... The individual nation’s freedom of movement is heavily restricted by its integration into the large power blocs. One should not, however, draw the primitive conclusion from this that, because it is now obsolete, nationalism no longer plays a significant role; on the contrary, it is very often the case that convictions and ideologies take on their demonic, their genuinely destructive character precisely when the objective situation has deprived them of substance. The witch trials, after all, took place not at the height of Thomism but during the Counter-Reformation, and something similar is probably the case with, if I may term it thus, the ‘pathic’ nationalism of today.

>>25335400
>>25335368
None of that came to pass. Philosophers are such jokes.

>>25335400
This is so unimaginably stupid.

>>25335400
>One should not, however, draw the primitive conclusion from this that, because it is now obsolete, nationalism no longer plays a significant role; on the contrary, it is very often the case that convictions and ideologies take on their demonic, their genuinely destructive character precisely when the objective situation has deprived them of substance.
This is an interesting perspective to consider now because right wing extremist terrorist networks on places like telegram have never been more radical in their ethnosupremacist and antifeminist ideology while also being comprised of mixed race teenagers born in the 2000's who have only experienced a nominally post-national and post-feminist world. "Demonic" is a good choice of words here because as these ideas have been condensed into symbols they have literally started to identify themselves with Satan.

>>25335435
it's called hyperbole, retardbro

I read some pages and to me what's interesting is that he says something about how power, or I guess he says capital but that's pretty much synonymous, gets centralized in society over time as a result of capitalism, and that this means strata of society that once had status lose it. I have for a long time been thinking about the concentration of power over time as a result of the progress of technology, and I think concentration of power is an inevitable consequence of the progress of technology. But it's a fucking word salad, just like his book Dialectic of Enlightenment. Kind of gave up on reading this lecture but maybe I'll keep trying.

File: seriously-laugh.gif (3.34 MB, 300x168)

3.34 MB GIF

>>25335368
>right wing extremism
>in 1967

>everyone who doesn't follow my ideology is an extremist

>>25335400
>there is something fictitious about it if one looks at the grouping of the world of today into these few oversized blocs, where the individual nations and states really play only a secondary part. ... The individual nation’s freedom of movement is heavily restricted by its integration into the large power blocs
Play a part into what? The greater order of the world? Right-wing people don't concern themselves with such a distant prospect (proven wrong countless time by the way, e.g. Vietnam, Egypt, Ukraine) but with immediate threat to their perceived national identity, i.e. immigration, multiculturalism, and so on. It's such a retarded take.

>>25335368
>adorno
>clusterfuck
redundant

bump

>>25335524
>Right-wing people don't concern themselves with such a distant prospect
>but with immediate threat to their perceived national identity

If rightoids had any brains they would see that these are co-dependent realities. But then they wouldn't be rightoids, would they?

>>25335368
Adorno: a bit vague, but that’s to be expected since it’s a transcript. He died before witnessing the Left being co-opted by capitalist advertising propaganda.

The guy who comments afterward: has no justification for being so biased and his addition is pointless since he merely summarizes the text to point out how "relevant" it's today.

>>25335419
same way outdated tech becomes icons and decor, makes perfect sense that the nietzchean herd has not been abolished and to recognize that if we do not cultivate and educate it, give it the Marxian will to overcome itself and its circumstances, it will be the means of the oligarchs destroying democracy.

spot on, really.

>>25335368
>Now, of course, there has been official legislation to make these things taboo. But even the taboo about mentioning the Jews becomes a means of anti-Semitic incitement, with a wink and a nudge: ‘We’re not allowed to say it, but we understand each other. We all know what we mean.’ And, in this technique of allusion, the mere mention of a Jewish name is already sufficient to create certain effects.

Test

>>25336625
>it's
should be "it is", don't know why

>>25336625
>but that’s to be expected since it’s a transcript.
why?

>the Left being co-opted by capitalist advertising propaganda.
what?

>>25335524
No he is ABSOLUTELY correct. There isn't a single right wing party in europe that is for European Union. They see it as a threat to their countries autonomy and it is one of the primary fears of these groups that EU becomes simply a conglomerate of federated states with no autonomy.
t. Europoor

>>25336688
>Why
Because at a conference you have less time to elaborate on each point
>What
Adorno argues that the right wing uses propaganda because it lacks internal coherence, and he identifies certain causes within the economic system; today the same thing happens with the left as well, but of course he couldn’t have known that

File: 23467498246926587.png (139 KB, 366x345)

139 KB PNG

>It is the very substance of the matter, just as it was with the Nazis. When the means increasingly become substitutes for aims, one can almost say that, in these extreme right-wing movements, propaganda actually constitutes the substance of politics.
The parallels to Trumps americca today are so clear here that it made me chuckle a bit.

Also reading this I noticed a weak parallel in Adorno's thoughts on the power of concepts/ideologies. In facism you get the rising "demonic character" when "the objective situation has deprived them of substance". With the bugbear of communism, the concept of communism becomes this all encompassing evil in the minds of its ideological opponents (here McCarthyism is an obvious example) precisely because there is no real communist party anywhere in sight. The lack of concreteness brings this intensification in thought.
>>25335447
>But it's a fucking word salad
I can read this perfectly fine and so can the other people in this thread
>just like his book Dialectic of Enlightenment
Not "his"; it was cooperative work by Horkheimer and Adorno. It is a hard book but all of its thesis are clearly expoundable. I like this kind of elitism through writing, it filters the low iqs while raising the level of the readers that are willing to find out. This creates better discussions. Also, that book has one of the most interesting critiques of facism as rising of the self-repressed brutality induced by the civilizational domination of nature.

>>25336736
>self-repressed brutality induced by the civilizational domination of nature.
What?

File: 1781185553356288.gif (2.64 MB, 638x542)

2.64 MB GIF

>>25336736

>>25336741
Humans become civilized partly through the oppression of nature by what Adorno calls "identity thinking" which reduces the thing in itself to the concept. This reduction is only partial and humans are always doomed to have destructive impulses which go disavowed in society. Facism steps in here by promising the pleasure of the fulfillment of these destructive urges but only by extermination of what is considered the "other" (Jews in the Nazi case). The other is precisely that which is repressed by identity-thinking so the whole thing is a projection. I wont spoonfeed you beyond this point. Read Dialectic of Enlightenment and if you don't understand it listen a podcast or read a book or whatever

It has a lot of good insights into right-wing thought and behaviour, though I find Adorno's lack of intellectual humility a little annoying, his dogmatisms, his insistence on the pathological nature of all rightism, his belief in psychoanalysis

>>25336762
>It has a lot of good insights into right-wing thought and behaviour
Such as?

>>25336762
Yeah so far I have seen no actual arguments, it's all psychologizing. One big long drawn out convoluted glorified circumstantial ad hominem. It's like "you only believe in God because you had a cruel father" on steroids.

when i finished my degree without ever having been assigned any cultural marxists i thought damn my alma mater must blow it's just a satellite campus of a big state uni but then when i actually read some of them i was like no this shit sucks ass they were right not to.

>>25336778
Did you go into this expecting a big debooonking? It literally says in the first paragraph the first page
>I will not attempt to present a theory of right-wing extremism with any claim to comprehensiveness but, rather, I will highlight with some informal observations a few things of which you may not all be aware. It is thus not my intention to invalidate other theoretical interpretations, simply to add a little to what is generally thought and known about these matters.

If all you understood was "psychologizing" and "ad hominem" then I sincerely doubt your reading abilities. I can start spelling his observations to you if you ask nicely

>>25336788
Something touched a nerve. Why are you personally invested in this and clearly upset? This is not how you conduct a discussion.

when stuff doesn't get translated until like 60 years years later it's prob cuz it wasn't that good but somebody decided to pick up the cash on the floor i guess.

This is the audio of the lecture in German and the book in German. Maybe someone bilingual in German and English spots mistranslations or strange translations and can comment on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtRsFPI8E5U
https://annas-archive.gl/md5/737a2c537e07843d323dfa902f2dc975

Great works of intellectual history tend to come from the old guard passing judgment on the present, like a Burckhardt or a Henry Adams, or the vanguard of the future, such as Nietzsche or William James dealing with the contradictions of the present head on. Not from people with huge chips on their shoulders who are too gripped by intellectual hysteria against their subject to really have anything worthwhile to say that could apply to realities external to those realities which their own ideological frameworks have locked them in.

>>25336692
Not exactly, I think chuds are in fact FOR an european union of sorts, just not THE European Union, which they cannot and will not ever be able to conceive of as having their best interests in mind.

>>25336625
>He died before witnessing the Left being co-opted by capitalist advertising propaganda
The victors gave him and his butt buddies a bunch of university sinecures. That never would have happened if the new world order genuinely thought of him or his friends or their ideology as potential threats to their interests either then or in the future.

>>25336791
I don't think there is any way of critiquing your post without you accusing me of "being upset" or "personally invested." It is, of course, difficult to hear that one's ability to read and critique is so poor that it can hardly be described as such.

>>25336825
You're just being silly. "Without claim to comprehensiveness" doesn't really imply that you will not be addressing arguments and instead only look at motives, circumstances, psychology etc. It's just saying the scope will not be great and thorough, whatever that means is open for interpretation. "Informal observations", pretty much the same thing, very vague what that means, could be anything. "Invalidate other theoretical interpretations" is also very vague and open to be interpreted in any number of ways, nothing in that in itself is implying that "other theoretical interpretations" means arguments given by the "right-wing extremists" in question, it could also be points brought up by other critics of "right-wing extremism". Likewise with "simply to add a little", nothing says what this little might be. I think you're putting way more into the text in your greentext than what can be known for certain about it.

https://youtu.be/U3Jm8zF7bJ8?&t=2857

>>25336853
Yes, I agree with everything you said here! What you are dancing around is the fact that you clearly said that there aren't arguments and that "it's all psychologizing" when there clearly are arguments in the form of how the right-wing ideology works at a general and particular level. I'm saying that your critique amounts to nothing and either you are incapable or unwilling to see them.

>>25336883
So far I have only seen "arguments" which are about motive, psychologizing etc, which is basically ad hominem, ie not actual arguments. He's not addressing the ideas held by the right-wing extremists and refuting them, he's making an analysis of why they are behaving a certain way, why they hold certain beliefs, not whether or not those beliefs are true. So that's like being in a debate atheist vs Christian, and the atheist isn't talking about whether God exists, but instead about what nutritional deficiency could possibly have caused the Christian to hallucinate and engage in such irrational behavior as speaking to an invisible person etc.

>>25336750
I never realised Muttley was green. I always thought he was grey. Anyhow, both sides have adopted propaganda out of 'necessity'. This is the Baudrillardian/McCluhan universe now of the mediaverse, the soulless propagation of content without form (the forms being so hyper productive that they seamlessly entwine, the content manufactured after the gramme). Even the classist critique is swallowed up by an avalanche of identio-info hysteria. The body is left out of it. All hail the Gramme

>>25336901
Marxism's "laws" failing to work as they "should have" not once, or twice, but thrice (WW1, WW2, the Cold War) brought the attention of marxists far more to the superstructure than to the base. The question went from "how should we prepare for the world after the collapse of capitalism" to "why did history fail to take its correct course, why did false consciousness prove to be so powerful". Hence the psychologizing tone of marxist analysis.

Being a marxist necessarily entails that you think everyone would have realized the truth of marxism had they were given the opportunity, there is no room for the existence of irrenconcilable conflicts of interests in marxism like there is in chuddy thought.

>>25336915
>there is no room for the existence of irrenconcilable conflicts of interests in marxism
Really? I thought that was pretty central to the whole philosophy, including the idea of dialectic.

>>25336611
False dichotomy

>>25336901
>He's not addressing the ideas held by the right-wing extremists and refuting them
Because he did not set out to do that. Your position is absurd because it denies that you can ever write about the rise and sustenance of ideologies through the social and economic lenses and instead always have to take the propositions and show their falsity. If one is setting out to analyze "Aspects of the new Marxist-Leninist Extremism" it would be absolutely retarded to then start yelling about the author not debunking the ideology. You are incorrect that they aren't arguments. They sure as hell are but not in the framework that you are assuming.

I'm still wondering if you read this because the first page of analyzing the prevailing nature of facism in burgeois classes through their economic concerns should've tipped you off...

File: 5343.png (417 KB, 804x592)

417 KB PNG

>>25335368
>I think this reference to anticipating terror touches on something very central that, as far as I can see, is given far too little attention in the usual views about right-wing extremism, namely the very complex and difficult relationship with the feeling of social catastrophe that prevails here. One might speak of a distortion of Marx’s theory of collapse that takes place in this very crippled and false consciousness. On the one hand, on the rational side of things, they ask, ‘What will happen if there is a big crisis?’ – and that is where these movements are attractive. On the other hand, they also have something in common with the type of manipulated astrology one finds today, which I consider an extremely important and typical socio-psychological symptom, because, in a sense, they want the catastrophe, they feed off apocalyptic fantasies of the kind that, as it happens, could also be found among the Nazi leadership, as documents show.

>If I had to speak psychoanalytically, I would say that, of the forces mobilized here, the appeal to the unconscious desire for disaster, for catastrophe, is by no means the least significant in these movements. But I would add – and I am speaking especially to those of you who are rightly sceptical about any merely psychological interpretation of social and political phenomena – that this behaviour is by no means purely psychologically motivated; it also has an objective basis. Someone who is unable to see anything ahead of them and does not want the social foundation to change really has no alternative but, like Richard Wagner’s Wotan, to say, ‘Do you know what Wotan wants? The end.’ This person, from the perspective of their own social situation, longs for demise – though not the demise of their own group, as far as possible, the demise of all.
Trvth

File: imrs.png (2.82 MB, 1800x1800)

2.82 MB PNG

>So these are people who are simultaneously cold, without relationships, strictly technological in their mindset – but also insane in a certain sense, as Himmler was to a prototypical degree. And this strange unity of a delusional system and technological perfection, this seems to be on the rise and once again playing a decisive part in these movements.
lmao, yeah

File: maxresdefault.jpg (66 KB, 1280x720)

66 KB JPG

>The only thing – I will jump to this now, because I think it is one of the most crucial aspects of how to resist this movement – the only thing that really strikes me as effective is to warn the potential followers of right-wing extremism about its own consequences, to convey to them that this politics will inevitably lead its own followers to their doom too, and that this doom was part of it from the outset, just as Hitler started saying, at an early stage, ‘Then I’d rather put a bullet in my head’, and then repeated the claim at every opportunity. So if one is serious about opposing these things, one must refer to the central interests of those who are targeted by the propaganda. This applies especially to young people, whom one must warn about every kind of drill, about the restriction of their privacy and their lifestyle. And one must warn them about the cult of a so-called order that does not answer to reason, especially the concept of discipline, which is presented as an end in itself, without anyone asking ‘Discipline for what?’ And obviously the fetishization of everything military expressed in such lovely phrases as ‘soldierly man’ [der soldatische Mensch] belongs in this context.
Self-destructive drive yeah, you do see people who were in the alt-right chill a bit when they realize something like this I think, but the heavy military aspect he's talking about would've probably made more sense in Germany in the context of the time.

File: HKdb8JxWEAEwglM.jpg (118 KB, 1024x1008)

118 KB JPG

>A further difference one must keep in mind is that of political intertwinement. Today, Germany is not a political subject in anything like the way it was in the Weimar period. There is even a risk that precisely this movement might remove Germany from world politics, from the tendency of world politics as such, and completely provincialize it. On the one hand, this places far greater real-world restrictions on such a politics, unless other and far more powerful countries also experience a triumph of right-wing extremism. On the other hand, that very fact stirs up anger. And this anger is likely to be vented especially in what one calls the ‘cultural sector’. I would therefore argue – to say nothing about the direct interests that a cultured person has in these matters – that, from the political perspective too, the symptoms of reactionary culture and forced provincialization must be observed with particular vigilance, because this – simply because these movements have no room for manoeuvre in foreign policy terms – is the area in which they can rage most and will surely try and try even more to rage.
Bingo. Also see the emerging split between new pan-European rightists and what they negatively call right-wing petty nationalists.

>>25337119
fag

>>25337323
The latter is just called tribalism

>Something that belongs in the same context is the ‘salami method’, as some term it with a flippant German expression – that is, cutting off a piece from a complex, then another and then another. So, for example, using the pseudo-scientific pedantry peculiar to these movements, they cast doubt on the number of murdered Jews. And first they say, ‘Well, it wasn’t six million, only five and a half’, and from that point it soon becomes dubious whether any were murdered at all, and finally things are presented as if it had actually been the other way around. So I think that one should view these matters with particular vigilance.
It is very funny to read Adorno saying this in '67 when I remember that one fake historian playing exactly the game described here on Joe Rogan

>>25337473
Can you please stop samefagging your terrible thread? If you want to shill this worldview figure out a way to make us give a shit about it first. None of this fits with my understanding of the world and you've given me no reason to think my understanding is flawed in a way that Adorno's ideas could correct. Fucking hell.

>>25337473
The Canadians just invented an ethnic genocide against Indian schoolchildren out of thin air a few years ago, a bunch of hate crimes were committed against churches as a result, and there were multiple calls to make questioning it illegal with direct comparisons to holocaust laws as justifications. All this, without a single body in an alleged mass grave site having been found. And all because it gives shitlibs a few more whiffs of that sweet righteous indignation in the heat of the moment.

An approach of total agnosticism to shitlib history that you have not directly researched via primary sources is perfectly healthy, especially if it's history they use to justify the present exercise of power.

>>25337473
In other words,
>If a small amount of criticism and scrutiny is permitted, it could tear down our assertions. Therefore, we must be vigilant against any criticism whatsoever -- if it comes from the wrong people.
Adorno was never, and I repeat never, not a duplicitous sophist.

i was just listening to a book and when it talked about postmodernism and how that destroyed all grand narratives it had a good point when it said there is in fact one narrative left and that is anti-racism and diversity.

File: quote-1.jpg (314 KB, 1920x1080)

314 KB JPG

Adorno confirmed weak mind.

>>25337517
"Postmodernism destroyed grand narratives" is a narrative and it is rather grand.

>>25337521
yeah the truth is it did not. the grand narratives just look different now.

Devoid of substance.

This is one Marxist posting over and over and over in his own thread
There isn't any discussion at all happening in here

Adorno was a hack. Nothing he wrote on this subject was actually profound or interesting.

>>25335368
>1967
ummm
67? 67 67 67 six-seven six-seven

https://youtu.be/U3Jm8zF7bJ8&t=2984

>>25336673
It's shocking how self-unaware you are.

>>25338577
id say the same for you
except im not shiocked.

>>25337311
Most of alt righters come from shitholes like Paris and just want a comfy centre-left somewhat enthnopure existence.

That's it. Adorno couldn't imagine the paki rape gangs running amock.

File: 1607357639950.jpg (22 KB, 429x451)

22 KB JPG

>this thread

>>25338765
Oh is the right wing cope (or whatever it's called) twitter guy the one samefagging all these Marxism threads? Isn't he a pedophile?

>>25338644
No lol

I'm very disappointed with this thread. Can we get some actual discussion?

>>25339248
What is there to discuss? He is right, superstructures like globohomo capitalism have all the power. Even modern nationalist movements are more or less a charade/festival.

Look what happened to Spain, a tradcath nationalist military dictatorship went pro fag and pro tranny because of a teleological progression of market forces which were necessary to fix the economy.

>>25337518
Socrates didn't like historians then huh?

>>25339259
Well thats more of a human nature problem than one to be solved by philosophy. Its fitting that Adorno, like most Marxists, denied the existence of an essential human nature so Schopenhauer filled in the gaps. The fact of the matter the economy had to liberalize because people desire more than they can attain, if people were simply content with being ascetics then the regime could continue unabated. But Adorno blames it on capitalism instead of human desires.

>>25336901
>>25338572
https://youtu.be/U3Jm8zF7bJ8?&t=2857
https://youtu.be/U3Jm8zF7bJ8&t=2984

The second link there explains exactly what's going on in this lecture. Adorno doesn't even define what he means by "right-wing extremism". We know that first and foremost right-wing extremism is a collection of ideas. But he does not address these ideas at all. He just talks about how it's a threat, they're crazy etc. As I said before, this lecture is completely devoid of substance. I haven't finished reading it, but so far there is nothing of substance in it. Adorno is not an actual intellectual, much like Chomsky, just a fraud.

>>25339271
It's because people were poor and sick, and for a nation to be healthy and strong they need wealth and for that you need trade. And because of technology trade spans the globe now but even in the nordic bronze age the swedes had elaborate trade networks with the phoenicians to sustain a basic level of wealth and comfort.

>>25339284
You are actually retarded

>>25339301
not an argument, go back to stroking your cock

Adorno just treats right-wing extremism as needing no definition, he assumes the listener has the some concept of it as he does, and the same basic emotional conditioning on it, i.e. that it's muh "something bad". This is the entire basis of this hollow lecture.

>>25335400
what the witch stuff was primarily a protestant thing it was a rejection of the greeks/thomism that enabled it this is literally the opposite of reality

>>25339259
So how come Israel is still ethnonationalistic and is actively committing ethnic cleansing in several territories?

>>25339310
True, it's not an argument because you are too stupid to understand what the aim of this book is. It should be obvious but I guess that is simply too much expected from you.

>>25339349
>t. biggest wanker on this site

>>25339349
Nta then what is the aim of the book?

>>25339349
Why don't you just parrot a thought terminating cliche like "MuH mEDiA LiTERaCY!" and then turn off your phone, retard. It's not like you're expecting calls.

>>25339762
Nta but you're illiterate. Go back to watching YouTube videos.

>>25337504
>>25337473
Seeing very dogmatic left-wing thinkers talk about "the extremist right" (whatever that means, since the epithet of "Fascist" can, and has been applied to literally every single school of thought on Earth and is most accurately defined as a synonym of "Bully") has always reminded me of how fanatical evangelicals from buttfuck county talk about Satan. It's that same brainless religiosity, founded not on belief, selflessness, and virtue, but ritualism, groupthink, and violent purity testing, applied to secular spheres of life. Neoliberal left-wing thinkers have essentially turned their ideology into a dogma that must not be questioned, and have turned their opponents into sinners and heretics. Adorno seems like the sort of person who would be burning witches a few hundred years ago.

>>25335392
fpbp

>>25336611
Media, academia, govt, big business are all leftwing in that they oppose tradition and embrace what was once called the counter culture.
What’s it like being a fish oblivious to water?

>>25336611
You are more myopic and retarded than the tradcaths who think every problem in the world is because of "modernism".

>>25335368
Adorno rejects the idea that right-wing extremism is driven purely by psychology or a handful of "fools" on the fringe of society.

So he is wrong.

/thread

File: -o8tjh4.jpg (82 KB, 445x543)

82 KB JPG

>>25335400
>The witch trials, after all, took place not at the height of Thomism but during the Counter-Reformation, and something similar is probably the case with, if I may term it thus, the ‘pathic’ nationalism of today.
Thomists suppressed women? WTF I LOVE THOMISM NOW. If only this was something they actually DID LMAOOOOO

>>25336736
>139 KB PNG
>>It is the very substance of the matter, just as it was with the Nazis. When the means increasingly become substitutes for aims, one can almost say that, in these extreme right-wing movements, propaganda actually constitutes the substance of politics
This is a really fascinating quote and I will be incorporating this into my worldview

Oh my lord, this retard is still bumping his own thread?

dis nigga cant think for himself geg

>>25335419
>>25338577
not an argument. you are actually conceding defeat with this emotional female-brained kind of posting

>>25339348
All the 4 Jew groups, the natives, the blacks, the ashke-nazis and the spanish ones as well as the arab citizens have equal rights. Israel is a melting pot.

>>25340519
NTAs. I just read they posts to which they were responding and they're 100% right. You're an embarrassment to yourself but, luckily for you, you appear to lack the self-awareness to recognize it.

>>25340489
Yeah what an asshole trying to have a serious discussion about a relatively short and interesting work of political philosophy. I feel his pain, I tried to do something like this for Schelling's Freedom Essay and had to conclude that virtually no one here is functionally literate - especially not tripfag discordtroons.

>>25337473
That's not how holocaust deniers argue at all though. This is a complete strawman.

Let's pull the curtains back a bit. What is right wing extremism in Adorno's mind. Hoppean libertarianism, racial social democracy, Christian nationalism or what.

>The individual nation’s freedom of movement is heavily restricted by its integration into the large power blocs. One should not, however, draw the primitive conclusion from this that, because it is now obsolete, nationalism no longer plays a significant role; on the contrary, it is very often the case that convictions and ideologies take on their demonic, their genuinely destructive character precisely when the objective situation has deprived them of substance.
Top kek this is exactly what's happening now in both America and Europe on the right. They're promising a return to a supposed based golden age which is already irrevocably lost due to collapsing birth rates alone, not to mention the facts of globalization and accumulation of capital. You can see something like this in someone like Giorgia Meloni - she wants to associate herself with traditionalist Catholicism but she can hardly bring herself to go to mass. It's a desperate grasping after something that is basically lost.

>>25340882
Shame that I missed that thread. This thread unfortunately drew out the stupidest people on this board since the title had "right wing" in it. Lot of the same thing happens with anything to do with Marxism which seems to be a boogeyman for these people. The funniest thing here is that OP outed himself as illiterate in his opening post

>handwringing over a neonazi party that never won more than 5% of the vote and usually did much worse
>mostly ignoring the drift of the centrist and socialist parties toward liberalism and globalism which would be immeasurably more consequential
Typical Adorno. Like most Jews he's obsessed with Nazi-hunting. It's a forgivable fault given their history but even so.

>So these are people who are simultaneously cold, without relationships, strictly technological in their mindset – but also insane in a certain sense, as Himmler was to a prototypical degree. And this strange unity of a delusional system and technological perfection, this seems to be on the rise and once again playing a decisive part in these movements.
A choice lel. The most powerful men in the world right now believe that if they push AI hard enough, without any regard for environmental or social consequences, they'll be able to upload their brains into a supercomputer and live forever.

>Then another bête noire, of course – as long as one cannot be openly anti-Semitic and as long as one cannot murder the Jews, because that has already happened – consists of the intellectuals, who are especially hated. The phrase ‘left-wing intellectual’ is another one of these bugbears. It appeals first of all to the German distrust towards anyone who does not hold some office, some established position, who is viewed as a kind of vagrant in life, an ‘air person’, as one used to call it in Poland. According to this ideology, whoever does not participate in the division of labour, whoever is not bound by their profession to a particular position and thus also to quite particular ideas, but has instead preserved their freedom of spirit, this person is a kind of rascal who needs to be brought into line. The age-old resentment of the manual labourer towards intellectual work also plays a part here, of course, but it has been shifted and become entirely unrecognizable to itself.
>air person
This is true, if you're a pseud hobbyist who likes to study this arcane stuff in your free time you can hardly even mention to people what it is you are actually passionate about because it will be viewed with intense suspicion since you aren't making any money from it ergo you must be doing it in a very sloppy and pointless way or at any rate there is something unseemly about it. This reminds me of some white trash at work talking shit about a cool coworker - 'he say he an artist, he ain' no fuckin' artist, he ain' sellin' no fuckin' art why the fuck is he here if he a fuckin' artist haw haw haw.'

>One technique in the new manipulation of anti-Semitism to which I would like to draw your attention, so that you can perhaps study it a little more closely and resist it, is cumulative effect. A publication like the Soldaten-Zeitung, that is, the National-Zeitung, has developed a remarkable virtuosity in never writing anything in one issue that is extreme enough to warrant intervention based on the current, quite firm laws against anti-Semitism or neo-Nazism. On the other hand, if one looks at a number of issues in succession, one must truly be stricken with the spirit of formalism not to see what they mean. And this danger, this form of allusion that has been elevated to a sophisticated technique, is one of those things that should not only be studied closely and pinpointed; one should surely also try to find legal means by which a democratic state would be able to intervene.
We're well past this in the States, on both the left and the right prominent figures are just a centimeter away from outright saying that Jews dominate our foreign policy. The problem for someone like Adorno is that it is true that Jewish Zionists dominate our foreign policy. You can't act out an antisemitic conspiracy theory and then call anyone who calls you out an antisemite; that worked for a few decades but no longer. (It need hardly be said that a huge number of Jews are opposed to Zionism and antisemitism as such is psychotic).
>But let me say again that there was never a truly, fully developed theory in fascism; it was always implied that what mattered was power, conceptless praxis and, ultimately, unconditional domination, and that spirit of the kind that expresses itself in theory was secondary by comparison.
Right, you see this in Evola threads. They don't have any ideas at all just raw instincts toward power and hierarchy, hence it is impossible to reason with them. Throughout this piece Adorno thinks you can counter fascism by just pointing out its falsehoods but I don't have so much confidence in the power of reason especially over the sort of retards who fall for right-wing movements.
>Recently a major institution of public communication in Germany had a meeting with a few NPD leaders to find out what concrete suggestions they actually had. And the only concrete suggestion that came out of it – and this is very telling – was that the death sentence for the murderers of taxi drivers should be reintroduced. That is, I think that sounds very laughable and insignificant, but it shows how significant a part a sadism cloaked in legal ideas continues to play in these matters.
Ngl I find this hard to believe. Is Adorno drifting into the same propaganda tactics of which he accuses the fascists?

>And it can certainly be shown that the entire thing is based on a gigantic psychological Wurztechnik, a gigantic psychological rip-off.
Yes. All these /pol/kiddies voted for Trump because ha had 'based vibes' and occasionally said almost-racist things, then as soon as he gets into office he just fucks them up the ass. At least this time he's overplayed his hand so outrageously that some of them are becoming disillusioned.
>But we must not fight lies with lies, we must not try to be just as clever as it is, but we must counteract it with the full force of reason, with the genuinely unideological truth.
It doesn't work, most people are retarded and you can't reason with them, you just have to do your own propaganda.

These running posts have admittedly been really low-quality but I did read the whole thing and it was reasonably interesting. Ty OP.

>>25340974
>The problem for someone like Adorno is that it is true that Jewish Zionists dominate our foreign policy.
I'm gonna argue that this is not a problem for Adorno. I think he would've replied something like: it is true on the objective level and that is the content of the ideology, however, the unwritten part is that it is inherently in the nature of the jew to be like this and there is something inherently filthy about it. To contrast: no one thinks that it is inherent racial quality of the Russians or Chinese to drive forward their countries good by subverting US politics (which they do, albeit with less success than Israelis/Jews). There is no neutral character of the jew playing global politics in these ideologies.

>>25340974
>Throughout this piece Adorno thinks you can counter fascism by just pointing out its falsehoods but I don't have so much confidence in the power of reason especially over the sort of retards who fall for right-wing movements.
I tend to agree with you here. He also said somewhere here that we should combat right wing extremism by pointing out to the young followers of this ideology the doom and loss of their lifestyle that this leads to. What he completely misses is that this sacrifice itself IS one of the appealing parts of the ideology. Remember how Germany was losing the war after Stalingrad and Goebbels did not downplay or hide it but held a speech of Total War and asked if the german people were ready to suffer so unimaginably that they could not comprehend it? The crowd chanted "YES YES YES".

>>25340910
All you've done in this thread is call people illiterate etc. No discussion, no arguments. Slightest opposition and you just call people dumb etc. Cool story.

>>25341111
That's fair, Jews do play a particular role in the Western psyche. It's just sad that a certain portion of them are choosing to lean into the very stereotypically parasitic behaviors to which people appealed in order to genocide them just a few decades ago.
>>25341119
Yeah that is a good point, I do not know much about Adorno but how does he justify his own supposedly rational standpoint and claim it's above the mere passions that are driving fascists (the 'vulgar idealism'?) I'm more inclined to say that you can't make any such separation and that even a poindexter like Adorno has something 'vulgar' and irrational in his thinking.
>>25341236
It's weird how whenever you guys get your asses handed to you, which happens whenever one of the oldfags bothers to argue with you, you start blatantly gaslighting. It's like you think you can manifest something into reality by saying it, a very primitive and magical mindset. We end up calling you illiterate because you can't follow arguments and there's nothing left to say at that point.

>>25340907
Irrelevant to him, it's just a boogie man, something vague that's bad. Despite discussing something that's literally defined by its ideas, he doesn't care about those ideas. It's just posturing. No substance. Not actual intellectual discourse. It's like you're in the dining hall on Titanic and one person after the other is shouting get the fuck out of here we're sinking, and you're talking about whether there was something bad in the food because all these people are having a bad attitude. This is what passes for intellectual and intelligent these days. He knows he's talking to gullible automatons, aka college students.

>>25341248
Pseud

>>25341236
Sure I have >>25337119
You didn't answer it but kept repeating your mantra after it while spamming a youtube video here >>25339284

If you still can't muster a coherent argument then I'm going to ignore you for my sanity. I can restate my position for you if you desire. The only reason I called you a retard is because I sincerely think that only an imbecile could come up with such a criticism. To summarize (again): Adorno's theorizing and informal observations of the social reproduction and power of the right wing extremist ideology in post-WW2 germany are NOT invalidated because he takes the ideology to be abhorrent and does not define or debunk right wing extremism.

>>25341277
You said I was yelling. I was not yelling. Grow up.

>>25341257
>Despite discussing something that's literally defined by its ideas, he doesn't care about those ideas
One of the main points of the speech is that it does not really contain any coherent ideas.
>It's like you're in the dining hall on Titanic and one person after the other is shouting get the fuck out of here we're sinking, and you're talking about whether there was something bad in the food because all these people are having a bad attitude. This is what passes for intellectual and intelligent these days. He knows he's talking to gullible automatons, aka college students.
Case in point right here. Your entire ideology amounts to "This is... BAD! And I don't like it! And I blame these minority groups!" Fascism doesn't rise to the plain of ideas it's just 'this' and 'that', concrete individuals and groups of people being scapegoated.

>>25341326
>YOUR ideology
Stopped reading there. I wonder who's the actual retard here with no critical thinking skills.

>>25335392
This really was fpbp.

>>25341248
>you start blatantly gaslighting.
OP is either effeminate, or a female who's effeminate. Either way saying you win against another person because they have completely different axioms to you is a psued'

>>25341337
Well, it is you. First you didn't answer >>25341326 's main point but resorted to shitflinging immediately. I'm guessing that you did not read the text and you are not interested in reading the text. Otherwise you would've seen immediately that the concrete instantiations that Adorno has in mind are the current NPD and previous Natsoc party with the primary characteristics highlighted being means and propaganda as politics, authoritarianism and an outside (racial) enemy to constitute a national identity. On top of this Adorno assumes that the listeners are in fact on the same page about what constitutes as right wing extremism at that point in time in germany. But then I guess he should've seen that right wingers on 4chan 50 years later want him to give an exact analysis of what constitutes right wing or otherwise your all observations are void.

Also your whole post >>25341257 is devoid of substance and everyone can see it. Unless you REALLY want to prop up your right wing identity by feeling threatened of Adornos theorizing when he is literally thinking of NatSoc which raises my eyebrows with regards to the politics you endorse.

>>25341665
>your right wing identity
>the politics you endorse
Learn basic logic.

>>25341634
No it's because you always say something like:
"Wow! They have no arguments you guys! Lollllll!"
Even though the anons are providing arguments. This has nothing to do with "different axioms". It is so easy to spot the zoomer posters because they can't read.
>>25341899
>I didn't literally and explicitly declare that I am a right-winger, therefore it is not valid to infer right-wing politics from the fact that my posts are defending right-wing positions
Again, a typical zoomer.

The level of pseudery itt is at critical levels.

>>25341902
inb4 "Comparing neonazis to people warning of danger on a sinking ship isn't actually defending right-wing politics! I never actually said I was defending right-wing politics! Learn to read RETARD!"
We are so fucked lmao. Every year I feel more like I'm living in a primitive, savage society.

>>25341909
I agree, the 15 anons who couldn't be assed to read the lecture are pseuds and it's unfortunate that there are only two people who managed to sit through the whole 25 paragraphs.

if your withered tiny brain stem is still running on the directional politics paradigm then you don't even qualify as a sapient being

>>25341916
>>25341909
More profound one-liners from the zoomer pseud brigade.

>spastic twitchings from poorly programmed automaton

>>25340086
>saying that women should stay home and raise children isn't suppressing them at all! LMAOOOOOO
Truly low IQ.

>>25336680

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LwbG_Y1EvBo&pp=ygUnc21pbGluZyBmcmllbmRzIGNlcnRhaW4gZ3JvdXAgb2YgcGVvcGxl&ra=m

I'm familiar with some of Adorno's writings and he's extremely obtuse as a writer. There is no idea he cannot twist into rhetorical knots.

>>25341955
This one was pretty clear. I've read Messages In A Bottle and while I thoroughly enjoyed it I could not understand everything.

>>25339342
Witch Hunting was primarly a thing in the Holy Roman Empire due to the decentralised nature leading to a stronger susceptibility towards mob rule. There is not a correlation between whether a German State was catholic or protestant and whether they hunted witches. The primary difference between the two religions was how they conducted their witch hunt. Protestants persecuted mainly women (due to the protestant translation of the bible gendering the term witch while the catholic interpretation has the neutral masculine gender for witch), while Catholics saw men as potential witches too and thus had a more equal distribution of persecution for both genders.

>>25335368
jewish slop