>in his ideal society, women will be part of the group of rulerswas he insane or what?
>>25342318no
>>25342318yea
Women in the republic wouldnt be the self centered harpies they are now but would have actual civic virtue
>>25342318IF they qualify by merit. Not otherwise. (Conclude as you will from there.)
>>25342318Not at all, in fact as one of the first smart ones of the west he immediately understood that the main problem with women was that they are socialized poorly, and that society will be much better off if they were part of the workforce on all levels.Since then, history has been increasingly on his side and women becoming political subjects in the last 200 years will be hailed as one of the greatest achievements of mankind. You now complain about an adjustment phase where women are annoying on social media and you cannot just freely rape anymore, but in the long wave of history (something of which Plato was very well aware: read the Timaeus; read the Critias) this will be totally irrelevant compared to the advantages of having men and women be peer.Better relationships, deep intellectual labour, art that has never been seen before and a true, honest and genuine alliance between the genders is what will come in the future. You can choose to work towards it and be good, or to work against it and be swept away by history moving forward regardless.
Theres so such thing as 50/50. One gender had to take the sacrifice to prop up the other and thats what youre seeing now. This is just cosmopolitanism run amok, cut off from nature and the reality of thr nature of humans.
>>25342918>>25342941
>>25342398They are mandatory for the guardian class to exist so there's not much if.
THIS IS WHAT A MALE FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE
>>25342918Nah that sounds like horseshit I want rape to return
>>25342918>true, honest and genuine alliance between the genders is what will come in the future.If I can engage with the bait for a moment, we are seeing the exact opposite trend in reality
>>25342941>One gender had to take the sacrifice to prop up the otherI've saying that for awhile now
>>25342318I think the main reason Plato became so popular was simply because he had practical ideas that were highly populist in nature.It's really the exact same way of self-soothing thinking that is still popular today. That essentially anyone can do anything if they are simply trained to do so. And this is why I think Plato is still overrated. People have not really changed and will fall for the same things they did back then.
>>25342318He was also a proto-communist that thought the family unit was evil and that the state should be all powerful. Good thing he was post-retroactively refuted by Nietzsche.
Does it really matter at this point?Dude has been dead for centuries, no one has seriously attempted to build his ideal society at scale and likely never will, and most of the world already has or has the potential for female leaders for unrelated reasons.
>>25342318He recognized that women, while not 100% equal to men, are "close enough" where the inequalities in our talents don't really matter. Some individual men may be superior to women, but can we not also say that the average woman is superior to the average 4channer?
>>25342318but we reached ideal societylook if you put your nihilism and cynicism aside, the assertion that somehow 15 years ago life was better is simply falseuntil proven otherwise I see a strong correlation between women/minority rights and how advanced a civilization isjust because moids are currently falling behind and having a hard time to adapt (males are less successful in academia and workforce) it doesn't mean we have to do a 180 on the emancipation of women, you can't coerce a woman financially into fucker her anymore so you have to come up with copes like males loneliness epidemic (or whatever is the current reactionary grifter buzzword) to rationalize itit will take at most one generation to filter out men and women who are not able to adapt to this new paradigm
>>25342962They aren't, Socrates' argument is totally qualified by whether women are able to pass through the long education. If they're able, his argument goes, then they shouldn't be prevented from ruling since passing those requirements is the qualification they agreed to. It doesn't require making them rulers by some affirmative action.
>>25342918All true, excellent post.
>>25343025Trust the Process.
>>25343698Two More Decades?
>>25342918>honest and genuine alliance between the genders is what will come in the future.It's getting worse, anon. Idk why you think this will work out. Men are segregated from women this way, unless interactions are forced. Mostly men and women play next to each other and talk past each other, not with each other.
>>25343746No. Two more centuries. After that if all else fails, then you can seethe. Its going to be bumpy.
>>25343768Its just generational foreplay and edging.
>>25342918>history has been increasingly on his side No it hasn't >and women becoming political subjects in the last 200 years will be hailed as one of the greatest achievements of mankind.No it won'tFeminist cultures have already committed suicide via birthrate, and nothing in the feminine archetype is useful for the foreign world that post- and trans-humanists want and are building.
>>25343814Hello Peter Thiel.
>>25343814 (me)The phenomenon of transexual, homosexual, and incelic programmers and economic elite foreshadows this: The edges of post-industrial civilization no longer have any roles in which women are anything but a burden, so men at those edges are increasingly replacing them entirely with various simulacra. If I was a woman (well, if I was a woman I'd be emotionally incapable of coherently thinking about this) I'd be desperately trying to find a new way for women to serve men. I have some ideas but they're rooted firmly in religious traditionalist "futurism"(?). Women do bring a lot of joy and color into the world when they aren't tearing it down, nothing I'm describing is a good thing for us.
>>25343821Hey what's up
>>25343828Is it named Palantir because deep down you just wish that you and I could be pals?
>>25343866Yes. How did you know?And by "pals" I specifically mean butt slave
>>25343825>thinks robowaifu, plastic and digital screens will replace a warm vaginaNgmi.
>>25343875Idk, Nick Land hasn't been the same since.
>>25343886LMAO>>25343881They already have for many people, anon. What I said was that plus being gay plus being a tranny was replacing vaginas (and more) specifically for a particular segment.
>>25343901>They already have for many peopleYou know. I don't want to believe it but one of my friends showed me the 'powers of AI fakes and pornography'. This will be a tough century. >particular segmentGo on..
>>25343881Boomer take. You can even add it to your rolladex of insults for people younger then you. But you cannot deny that AI has replaced sex for many people. Why not? It's already replaced teachers and friends as well. I'm not even talking about some shut in edge case misanthrope. This premise has encroached onto the peripheral of the masses. I've walked past a grade schooler, deaf and blind; a schooler dumb to the world but happily chatting with his chatGPT as he bound over cracked pavement and potholes. This is the future.
>>25343909Just reread my original post, I was talking about people working in tech and weird gay CEOs and billionaires. Sex-having has been falling for at least a decade at least, I think something like 40% of the population is chronically single in the US, and I read that like 7 years ago. Look it up if you don't believe me (I'm sure the numbers are somewhat different). Human society is falling to pieces and those pieces are being pruned, isolated, and strung up to a central robotic spine.
>>25343944>At least at leastBoomer moment, I'm retarded
>>25342918i'm a little disappointed at how many mentally neutered replies agree with this but they might as well be self repliesthe entire "success story" of embedding women more deeply into society to give them stronger roles is almost solely due to the fact that more women in the workforce means more total bodies in the workforce and therefore more economic output, that's literally all there is to itwhat are the downsides, you may ask? i suggest you take a look at the birth rates of every single nation which commits to this - they have become so bad that humanity will basically become extinct within ~80 years if trends continue and that's entirely the result of giving women as a whole more agency within societythat's fine if you don't believe me but you'd be ignoring every single data point of every single dating app and dating website, real life anecdote, event, development of psychosocial aspects and so onyou call it an "adjustment phase where women are annoying on social media" but in reality it's a civilisation destroying moment
>>25343922I disagree, but I know this board doesnt do well with an optimistic look. Point is, you guys see a collapse, I see opportunity and a transitional point. It wont be pretty, it wont be evenly distributed but things are changing. Might as welll ride the wave and adapt. To each their own I guess. And yeah you're right, its about 40%, I used to worry about this a few years ago, but realized, theres only so much influence I have, might as well find a wife, pop kids and teach them Euclid, homeschool them.
>>25343881Jamie can we pull up the societal sex-having rates over time
>>25343992I think you misread my post then. I'm not sure what your response has to do with mine.
>>25343992Doesn't that kind of optimism depend on the steady function and progress of technology and medicine? It seems to me that the modern legal and labor status of women is dependent in a large degree on medicine and tech, such that labor isn't excessively physical and that women can more easily recover from pregnancies. It doesn't seem evident that the miracles of the past century and a half will continue on indefinitely.
>>25343958>i suggest you take a look at the birth rates of every single nation which commits to this - they have become so bad that humanity will basically become extinct within ~80 years if trends continueThat's a good thing. 8 billion is not sustainable. The fat has to be trimmed. Your anger at not getting pussy is immaterial.
>>25344091The mass of that isn't from the first world, and that's the part of the globe with dropping birthrates. The world won't be improved by watching America, Europe, and certain Asian countries decline while India explodes with untouchables.
>>25344096The first world is where the vast majority of irreplaceable resources are consumed wastefully. That's where the population constriction has to focus. The third world will die off in droves when they can't be artificially propped up by the first.
The modern world is all built on cathedrals and labrynths of complex systems, which will inevitqbly break down once society is too stupid (due to AI use, the dumbing down of education, etc) to maintain them. Then everything will return to its due course, and the 20th and 21st century will become this mythical epoch that many will doubt it even existed.
>>25344199Your sexual excitement for this scenario is kinda creepy.
>>25344208I am sharpening my sword as we speak.
>>25342318yeah, he was fundamentally a mystical retard. the "world of platonic forms" required belief in an entirely illogical concept with no evidence for its existence, and that kind of pseud philosophy has been used to justify all kinds of modern horrors.
>>25343776>After that if all else fails, then you can seethe. Given the plummenting birth rates, we don't have one century before the wheels come off the wagon
>>25342941Trvth nvke
>>25344223Don't worry, we have billions of africans to fill up our nations with
>>25344214What angle on the whetstone do you use?
Feminism is self-refuting because women don't actually want to be equal to men, and even in situations where they are treated equally, they absolutely detest the men who treat them like that. They're like dogs who become aggressive, rowdy and confused if their owner is too much of an unassertive beta.
>>25344245In the future, we don't know what angles are.
>>25344257Kek
>>25344243Get with the program, even African countries are seeing their birth rates drop. Soon there won't be a single country above 2.1
>>25342318Yes. There's a reason why the examples of female led societies in history that redditors will bring up are few and far between as well as very small in scale. Even then, the highest achievement of these societies usually amounts to learning how to wipe their asses.
>>25344277Fertility rates fall because of educated women, birth control, and industrialization that removes the need of children to ensure someone to care for you when you're old. Remove any of these three pillars and it will go up again.
>>25344255I agree with you mostly but that's not what self refuting means.
>>25343958we shouldnt keep living anyway
Type of women Plato meant
>>25343046He was a proponent of radical merit based aristocracy and hate democracy
>>25344199Seems unlikely, what can be automated will be automated given cheap enough energy and we got the miracle we needed with solar power.
>>25342918>a true, honest and genuine alliance between the gendersMen would have to look like women for this. It is not possible for an uglier category of people to cooperate with virtuous heart.
>>25346775Start taking estrogen sister
>>25346784The problem therein is the infertility. Women have to birth the reality I want. Otherwise it's round and round the same carousel of the planet of the apes.
>>25343067For the thousandth time. Learn. The meaning. Of words.... NIGGEEEEEEEEERRRRR
>>25342918>an adjustment phase where women are annoying on social mediaNigger the birthrate is 0.5South asian islam (birthrate >> 1) comes in and puts the women in burqas, the end.You would need to be the most shortsighted of normalniggers not to see this is the only conclusion of feminism of any kind.Feminism destroyed "civilisation" in a matter of 100 years. Hope the women enjoy the new attire.
