Didn't Ralph Ellison have an unfinished novel called Juneteenth? His Invisible Man is great but despite lip-service it is continues to be published with the most bland and irrelevant covers possible, most likely because his own motives for writing it, according to his letters, is as a "fuck you" to reformist tendencies among American communists, and because he saw literature having declined since the 19th Century in its treatment of morality
>>25352494I hate this retarded "holiday" like you wouldn't believe. I have a June birthday and now I have to share the month with queers and Africans now and I'm neither.
>>25352625It's honestly the only meaningful holiday America has
>>25352740it was literally made up like 5 years ago and no one celebrates it
>>25352746It's been celebrated for a long time by Blacks.
>>25352755it hasn't been. you can just check the search popularity.
>>25352758Wrong board
>>25352761It's as relevant as the OP is to literature. A collection of random books without any discussion? Ok.
>>25352761Suck my dick, BOY.
>>25352760Yeah it has. Ralph's Ellison uncompleted novel is even named it as has been pointed out itt
>>25352768Newfag
>>25352761Shit threads get shit replies. Simple as. Don't you have an entire city block to burn and loot because some twenty-something hoodlum reaped the consequences of his own actions or something?
>>25352780Oh sorry, what was the point of the collection of random books you havent read if you checked all 6 of them out today from the library on this june 19th? black people? wooooooow that's totally /lit/ bro
>>25352494Imagine buying all these books about thoroughly political, uninteresting shit that you will never, never, never, never ever read to completion.
>>We were mean to blacks a hundred years ago so that means we have to coddle them and treat them like special, gifted little based boys for the rest of time I fucking hate America.
>>25352790those are obv from a library dumb ass lmao
>>25352789Newfag
>>25352791America's enormous wealth required a propertiless class of labor which never lasted long with white immigrants for the first few hundred years. Slaves were pivotal, they produced the exports that brought in the massive sums of money without which America could not have afford a revolution or a gentry class to lead to it
>>25352792You're never going to read them all. But I guess they were perfect for making a performative post on an anonymous website full of brownie haters.
>>25352494kill yourself
>>25352796This isn't /pol/ lil brobro
>>25352801No it's that whites wanted high wages and when they got enough saved up they would quit and buy their own land. White immigrants to America did not stay propertiless labor for more than an average of six years until the mid 1800's
>>25352795Ahistorical nonsense >>25352791You mean Neoamerica. Nobody was like this until the 60s. Some of us have been here 400 years.
>>25352740Of course you would say something like that.
>>25352755Blacks don't count as far as I'm concerned. You're not a real American unless you're at least 70% Anglo-Saxon.
>>25352807George Washington was the richest man in America because he had a very skilled slave force that he contracted to companies facing worker shortages
>>25352824If you go to any city in America and take the top 1000 people with the oldest lineage in the country, most will be Black
>>25352825george washington was not the richest man in america
>>25352827Smells like bullshit
>>25352824This t. Only ~45% anglo saxon (I can feel the difference within myself, the Mediterradeoid passion exspecially) But boy do I love my Anglo Saxon Southland. If only I could embrace her without pain.
>>25352784I'm full convinced responsibility and consequences are only something Whites and Asians know. But just the men of those races. Everyone else is blissfully unaware of those concepts.
>>25352831He might be right but only because old stock whites aren't concentrated in cities specifically, and to a lesser degree because immigrants didn't really mix with blacks. Hindus like him don't consider anyone outside of the upper castes—I mean classes—human.
>>25352841I read this in a wildly, flamboyantly homosexual voice in my head just FYI I feel it really suits the yankey (or as I like to call them: Yanksissy) weltanschauung.
>>25352841>New ENGLAND >We's the REAL MURRICANS!! GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
>>25352847The South is a humid shithole whose aristocracy refused to invest their wealth into actual improvement of their country and just lived beyond their enormous means
>Goes to the anti-brown website >WHY DON'T YOU GUISE WANNA TALM 'BOUT POOP PEETEENTH!?!
>>25352852The thouth is a humid thithole whose arithtocrathy refuthet to invetht their wealth into ackthual improvement of their cuntry and jutht lived beyond their enormouth (mmmmm enormouth ooohhhhh) meanth
>>25352784I'm not defending the looting and shit but I don't get why all the loudest people about this shit don't attack the right things. Even if Floyd was a shit person, for the protesters he was just the straw that broke the camel's back on the issue of cops killing black people. It coming out that he was a shit person isn't the checkmate people think it is. Fixating on Floyd himself makes you look just as retarded as them. It's the same shit with the "all lives matter" retards. If their take is that cops don't disproportionately kill black teenagers then they should just say that instead of pretending that they think "black lives matter" implies other lives don't matterLike idk who's worse, the people who like that bud light is pretending to be gay or the people who are mad about it. Everybody's retarded
>>25352866>he was just the straw that broke the camel's back on the issue of cops killing black people. It coming out that he was a shit person isn't the checkmate people think it is.actually leftists exclusively riot for trash for some reason. they love the criminal class. if george floyd weren't a 9 time felon who ODed on fent and didn't actually get killed by the cops they wouldn't have cared.
>>25352865Are you Castilian?
>>25352865I sound like thath and I was born in Bawston
>>25352872Blacks have 1000% more right to American than whites do and trying to play stupid Anglo games like "why don't Jews just move to this space and colonize it" was already tried with Liberia. It is not a solution, it is just turning the problem into a pyramid scheme by saying the people who are fucked can go to another land to fuck over others
>>25352876Yeah but I imagine your fenian ancestors bless you with something like a baritone, not the reedy castrato heir of Byron and Bacon that I was imagining. >>25352873Worse: Welsh
>>25352881No they don't, all they fuckin did was pick cotton. Even their vaunted music mostly borrows from European traditions and instruments. Brute labor is the easy part.
>>25352887Note that they do of course deserve a prominent place here. Just nothing even close to like a majority ownership lmfao.
>>25352887>all they did was produce America's major source of wealth for hundreds of years
>>25352891No, they didn't do that either. And it would have still been profitable with free white labor, just not as much.
>>25352894There wasn't enough free white labor to do it because free whites who were paid accumulated enough savings to get their own land in a few years and this very inducement was what kept white immigration coming to America
>>25352891>America'sthe south's*the only thing the south had more of than the north was cotton. that's why they got raped in the civil war. the north of course contained all of the intelligent people which is why even today it is the world leader in biotech and has the greatest universities.
>>25352881>Blacks have 1000% more right to American than whites doDidn't read the rest. You wouldn't even be here if we hadn't trucked your ancestors over from Darkest Africa.
>>25352898The Federalists who tended to represent Northern interests, often opposed settler expansion of the country, in part because of moral considerations of the natives but also because they needed propertiless labor. The growing base of white proertiless labor in America is what made slavery obsolete.The south however for a long time was more influential than the north, especially Virginia, and a spur to expansionism up until that expansionism started tipping toward more free states than slave ones which tipped the power balance to the north
>>25352625I just wish it had a better name. Call it Emancipation Day or something. Juneteenth is on the same level as May the 4th Be With You, nobody's going to take that seriously
>>25352922Yeah you're right the name is cringe
Cultural Marxism destroyed this country.
>>25352494Do you actually return these books?
>>25352891If we were actually doing honest accounting gibs and prison costs alone would place the vast majority of African Americans in an astounding amount of debt.
>>25352971An honest account would be account would be 60k a year for every descendent of a slave. Blacks are entitled to reparations the same as American Indians
>>25352625They astroturfed it hard during peak woke and now it's barely a blip. If the race baiting Demoncraps don't get the presidency in 2028 it will be finished for good.
>>25352775It hasn't. Gaslighting doesn't work here. Try plebbit.
>>25352971Factoring in the gibs alone is more than enough to put their account in overdraft. If you calculate the cost they've inflicted through crime they owe at least another 200 years of slavery.
>>25352897There's no concept of "enough" in supply and demand analysis, this is completely incoherent and retarded.
>>25353068When I say "enough" I am referring to market equilibrium
>>25352914And yet we remain, and the spirit of the yankee world is forgotten. Trump is the heir of Lincoln. Hell at this rate we'll outlast the Republic itself.
>>25353070Yeah no shit, fucking retard. Market equilibrium is derived from supply and demand at any given moment. There is no one balance like you seem to think. Go back and finish highschool.
>>25352897>slaves picking cotton is the key factor that lead to America becoming a superpower Lol. Slavery wasn't invented by the West, retard. If anything the world owes the West a huge thank you because it ended slavery as a global norm, common to pretty much every culture, that persisted throughout all of human history.
>>25353077Market equilibrium is an idealized state reflecting intrinsic value which the markets depart from with shortages or surpluses, and tend toward as they are corrected. It is NOT the condition of the market "in every given moment". You do not know what you are talking about.
>>25353083The British ended slavery overseas because it was the bread and butter of their rivals. If they had keep the colonies that became the U.S. it is doubtful they would have done so. America only ended slavery with the civil war which 180,000 black men fought in
>>25353097>Market equilibrium is an idealized state reflecting intrinsic value There is no intrinsic value >which the markets depart from with shortages or surplusesThose words by definition cannot exist outside of the context of a market. You are putting the cart before the horse. Are you a marxoid lmfao.>It is NOT the condition of the market "in every given moment".I never said it was. Being illiterate on top of being retarded must be rough.
>>25353105>There is no intrinsic valuehttps://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp
>>25353109Yeah that's incorrect, value is ENTIRELY dependent on the human being doing the appraisal and does not exist outside of our minds. The bead arbitrage in early colonial times demonstrates that.
>>25353100>The British ended slavery overseasCorrect. The British Empire ended slavery as a global/cultural norm that had persisted across time and space throughout all of human history. This fact should be celebrated worldwide as just one of the many historical gifts the West has endowed the lesser cultures. You're welcome.
>>25353115The main function of arbitrage is to arrive at market equillibrium.
>>25352494How much did that toilet paper cost you.
why do economoids ape scientific terms? there's no such thing as a market "equilibrium" like there are for chemical reactions.
>>25352953Nah bruh they got so many
>>25353128The word equilibrium in English predates its use as chemical terminology
>>25352795And by that same logic, is the reason Brazil is so much greater of an economic superpower than the US, given they had 20x more slaves.
>>25352494>Juneteenth library visitThat can’t be, the library is closed today.
>>25352755>a few years = a long timeLOL (at your newfag ass, not with your newfag ass)
>>25352922The joseph r biden federal national holiday for the celebration of democratic freedom and the end of confederate natural lawIt's not just about blak people, because if not black people then someone else and it's not just about us ending confederates because if not us then someone else
>>25353181Most of the wealth America gained by slavery benefitted America whereas Latin American slavery tended to enrich the crown states
>>25353181Kek.
>>25353234Brazil gained independence not long after the United States and maintained slavery until the late 1800s. The fact is slavery isn't as profitable as you're making it out to be and the sense of history you're parroting is guided by a want to diminish Western accomplishments.
>>25353194Yeah I was gonna go today but saw that it was closed for whatever the hell juneteenth is.
>>25352494That word doesn't exist outside the continental American echo chamber.>muh HawaiiAnd Hawaii.
>>25353137stunning and brave
>>25352625>dear diary today i was a victim again
>>25354585>dear diary today i dilated again
>>25353137okay, vic>>25354590okay, tim
>>25354596What?
>>25354605i said okay
>>25353854and alaska and puerto rico
>>25354590Kek
>>25352494
>>25352884Welsh ancestry seems prominent in family
>>25354609K
>>25352494Take the thong out yo bussy playa
>>25352841It was the north that betrayed the constitution though. The southern states had a legal right to secede.
fucking psyop post
>>25352878>>25352872both of you misunderstood me, I'm not condoning the BLM riots. I'm just saying when you say the whole sentiment is false because Floyd was a bad person, then the people you're arguing with are just gonna think you're retarded and not take you seriously. To them, it's just about cops killing black people, and finding out Floyd wasn't a good guy doesn't change their idea that cops should stop killing black people. It's just unfortunate for them that the example case that broke the camel's back ended up being a shitty person. They have Broenna Taylor or however the fuck you spell it and a million other cases of cops killing unarmed black teens as their evidence, Floyd was just one.I mean, there's probably nothing that you can say to the lefties to actually convince them, but that one in particular doesn't get you anywhere. I'm just saying if you want to actually try and argue with them you gotta actually tackle the issue
>>25352625Convert to a queer African and see if you get glazed like all the other queers or condemned like Rachel Dolezal
>>25355679Like Floyd, Breonna Taylor is another terrible example.
>>25355948oh is it? I don't really know the story, did she draw a gun at them or some shit?I was never too invested in this stuff but I my social circle is all art/music people so I saw a lot of this stuff when it was happening. Honestly huge mistake on lefties part for picking bad examples if they wanted to prove a point, because I've definitely seen videos of cops just shooting unarmed 14 year olds and shit
>>25352795wonder how the states without slavery won that war and why the non-slave states have outperformed the former Confederacy by nearly every metric since the war ended. Where'd all that wealth go?
>>25352865it's funnier if you imagine Daffy Duck saying this.
>>25355679You're a midwit. >>25355962>oh is it?Yeah. She let a violent drug dealer have packages delivered to her house, this is why the police were watching her apartment, and the guy she had staying with her opened fire on the police after they knocked and announced themselves.
>>25355995lol if that's true it's insane how much that narrative has been changed. The story that everybody seems to know is that the police went into the wrong apartment and killed her, not even the same story at all>You're a midwitsay more about this
>>25352866>>25355679>the issue of cops killing black people.>it's just about cops killing black people>cops should stop killing black peopleMaybe they should just stop committing so much fucking crime then? You can even use this nifty Washington Post (DEMOCRACY DIES IN DARKNESS) police killing thing to see that your cops killing black people has been a joke since forever:https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/it used to be easier to use but because they're a joke paper you might have to sign in to change years/see the whole thing.>Even if Floyd was a shit personthe cop didn't kill him, he OD'd. No your (second) medical examiner's report isn't legit, it was politically motivated bullshit. That junkie thug "couldn't breathe" before the cop even put his hands on him.>It's the same shit with the "all lives matter" retards.Yeah the funny part about this is that the BLM retards don't even care about all black lives. Not a single peep ever about black-on-black violence, because it's heckin racist to talk about black crime, which happens every single day. Blacks kill more blacks in one year than the spooky KKK has in its entire history.
>>25356014fwiw from 2015 to Dec 31, 2024 (it's no longer updated, because the narrative was false from the start) only 180 unarmed black people were shot and killed by police, out of a total 10,429 fatal police shooting.Incredibly, 2,083 ARMED black people were shot and killed by police. How weird.>180 out of 10,429 unarmed>2,083 out of 10,429 armed
>>25352791>I fucking hate AmericaExtremely pedestrian opinion to have nowadays
>>25355962> circle is all art/music peopleThese types tend to lean liberal which why all my music I make tends to be labeled as "outsider". Yeah a lot of its shit too but that's beside the point.>>25355737The best I can do is maybe Arab. I can pass for that at least.
>>25356014yeah well this is what I mean. Instead of trying to checkmate a lefty by saying "floyd was a bad person actually", say shit like this. Bring up numbers and black on black crime etc.As I said, you're probably not going to ever convince a lefty who's trying their hardest to not be accidentally racist, but this is the way the argument should go. As somebody with no stake in the game it makes me feel psychotic to watch two people try to argue but they're actually just not communicating at all.Lefties have the idea that cops kill a disproportionate amount of black people because they're racist. I don't actually know the numbers or give a shit tbqpfh, but that's the thing to attack if you want to discuss it with them. Everybody replying just thinks I'm an SJW anti-cop guy just because I have any critique on the BLM haters. I've got a lot of both sides in my life so I just see this kind of arguing all the time
>>25355679Sure, but having a city without law enforcement always ends badly. Even if its not officially state sanctioned someone has to enforce decency even if its democratically agreed up by the people themselves. But 9/10 this arrangement never works and the offending party is incapable of self reflection. Self reflection seems to a wholly white and male phenomenon, which is philosophy is dominated by them in the first place. Sure Indians and Asians have their own particular dominions but I'm solely speaking of the West.
>>25355998>if that's trueIt's true and the guy shaked up with her who opened fire on the police even hit one of them. >police went into the wrong apartment and killed herLol, no. She had packages being delivered to her house that were under the name of a known drug dealer (her ex boyfriend). The cops banged on the door announcing themselves before kicking it open. Taylor's boyfriend opened fire on the cops and hit one of them. The cops fired back and Taylor was struck by a stray bullet and killed. The actual controversy occured when Merrick Garland tried to railroad the police involved. They claimed that the police enacted a warrant based on false pretense and argued there were no packages being delivered (the media reports this as if it's a given fact but it's murky). The cops were subsequently charged at the behest of the Biden DOJ but the charges were dismissed by the judge. >say more about thisYour posts came across as uninformed and naive. The reality is the amount of fatal encounters blacks have with the police was vastly exaggerated (i.e. white people are more likely to be killed by the cops if you factor the number of encounters versus police shootings). BLM has been fighting to stop body cam footage from being shared publically because it turned out the blacks who are being shot are violent and attacking the police.
>>25356074yeah, agree, there's no fucking way that would work. Could you imagine being in NYC the day everything became legal? lol. And speaking of that, "defund the police" was also one of these phrases left way too open for misinterpretation. Some people were actually wanting to just remove the police, but most people I knew spouting that phrase really just meant "reform the police", and it just made every argument a huge fucking mess
>>25356098>Your posts came across as uninformed and naiveyeah I won't argue with that desu, I am uninformed. I don't know the numbers. I just wanted to make it clear that I don't necessarily think cops disproportionately kill black people, I'm just recognizing that this is the issue according to leftys, and therefor it's the thing to address
>>25356068>"floyd was a bad person actually"George Floyd OD'd. The initial coroner recorded such and the Floyd family was given crowdfunded money from BLM to get a second report that said he didn't. Floyd had an insane amount of drugs in his system including meth (the combination of fentanyl and meth is what's known as a "speedball" and has killed a lot of people, including many celebrities, by way of respiratory failure) and markers that indicated Floyd probably ingested contaminated fentanyl (which also increases the likelihood of death by respiratory failure). Also, there's a video of Floyd being arrested a year or so before wherein he deliberately ingested drugs he was holding so they wouldn't be found by the police (this evidence was not allowed in court during the Chauvin trial). Also, Floyd's body displayed no physical injuries indicating Chauvin's knee caused his asphyxia.>>25356111>it's the thing to addressAddressing it falls on deaf ears. They're detached from reality and you're socially penalized if you refuse to confirm their politically motivated versions of things. You can argue with them all you want but it's pretty much a pointless endeavor.
>>25355995>Yeah. She let a violent drug dealer have packages delivered to her house, this is why the police were watching her apartment, and the guy she had staying with her opened fire on the police after they knocked and announced themselves.Proof?
>>25356014>the cop didn't kill him, he OD'd. No your (second) medical examiner's report isn't legit, it was politically motivated bullshit.>>25356122>George Floyd OD'd. The initial coroner recorded suchNo, the first coroner also said the police killed him.From the press release on june 1st, 2020:>Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression>Manner of death: Homicide >How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)https://web.archive.org/web/20200601231822/https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdfAnd the title of the full report released on june 4th, 2020 gives the same cause of death:https://web.archive.org/web/20200604001830/https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf/
The term "homicide" means someone was killed by another person in the legal context:https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/homicideAnd it also means that in the context of a coroners report:>Homicide occurs when death results from a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide (more below). It is to be emphasized that the classification of Homicide for the purposes of death certification is a “neutral” term and neither indicates nor implies criminal intent, which remains a determination within the province of legal processes.https://name.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/4bd6187f-d329-4948-84dd-3d6fe6b48f4d.pdf
>>25356224from the first one (you linked):>Other significant conditions: Arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease;fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine usefrom second:>No life-threatening injuries identifiedcrazy, and neither report nor you make any mention of him "I CAN'T BREEVE" before the cop even laid a hand on him. How'd that happen? So weird.Either way, do you think if he hadn't decided to use fent and meth before going out that day that he would've acted like a fucking buffoon in the store, waving a banana around? Do you think if he was sober that he would've tried spending counterfeit money? His own dumbass, junkie thug decisions led to his death whatever you want to believe, that's irrefutable.
>>25356303You can be killed that way without having bruising injuries:>> Dr Bill Smock, police surgeon for Louisville metro police department in Louisville, Kentucky, testified for the prosecution. Smock heads the Training Institute on Strangulation Prevention’s medical committee, and trains police about strangulation and asphyxia. His opinion on Floyd’s death matched Tobin’s: “Mr Floyd died from positional asphyxia, which is a fancy way of saying he died because he had no oxygen left in his body.”>>Smock also said: “You can be fatally strangled, die of asphyxia, and have no bruising.”>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2021/apr/08/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-death-latest-updates
>>25356303>>25356309>You can be killed that way without having bruising injuries:more places that talk about this:>Myth 2: If someone is strangled, they will always have visible marks on their neck.>Fact: While visible marks like bruising might occur, they aren't always present. Strangulation can cause internal injuries without leaving external signs, making it even more dangerous as the severity might not be immediately apparent.https://www.sjcfamilyjusticecenter.com/copy-of-strangulation-1>Myth: Strangulation always leaves visible injuries.>Fact: Studies show that over half the victims of strangulation lack visible external injury. A victim without visible external injury can still die from strangulation.https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/docs/JCS/courtSvcs/resources/Non-FatalStrangulationMyths.pdfThe source the court cites is:>Strack, G., McClane, G., & Hawley, D. (2001). A review of 300 attempted strangulation cases - Part I: Criminal legal issues. Journal of Emergency Medicine, 21(3), 303–309.
>>25356224>No, the first coroner also said the police killed himNope. Check out his toxicology report. FYI: 4-ANPP shows up when someone takes bad fentanyl that wasn't professionally manufactured (i.e. it's common in overdose).
>>25356309>this person selected and paid by the prosecution to give testimony against Chauvin said he's guiltyWow! You're blowing my mind, anon!!!
>>25356326NTA but there's just no fucking way it was fent that killed him. If his blood fent concentration was 7ng/ml above the average concentration at death, how was he conscious? Let alone walking, talking, flailing, etc?
>>25356335He was also on copious amounts of meth, anon.
if you have a disorder that causes your skull to be a third as thick as normal, and I swing a rock at your head and it shatters your skull and you die, I've killed you -- even if a normal person would've survivedif you have a rare blood disease that causes you to be unable to clot, and I slash you with a knife and you bleed to death, I've killed you -- even if a normal person would've survivedif you're on a cocktail of drugs and you have an enlarged heart, and I restrict your breathing and you asphyxiate and die, I've killed you -- even if a normal person would've survivedwhy is this simple concept so hard for chuds to understand
>>25356335Oh, and he had what looked like pills in his mouth in the video (the prosecution argued they were tonsil stones). Also see >>25356122 regarding the video of him being arrested a year or so before (i.e. where he downed a bunch of drugs so the police who were arresting him wouldn't find him). It's been a while since I've seen both videos but I recall the "tonsil stones" in mouth looking exactly like the fent he swallowed that time.
>>25356336That doesn't change what I'm saying, though. If the implication is "Chauvin didn't kill him, it was the drugs that killed him," how do we explain the fact that Floyd was walking, talking, and moving right before Chauvin showed up?
>>25356342If you take a bunch of synthetic heroin so the police arresting you don't find it while also being high on methamphetamine and resisting the police aren't at fault when you die of an overdose. Simple as.
>>25356343Haven't seen the pills in his mouth or read anything about it -- genuine question though, does fent metabolize through the body that quickly? Say Floyd was already an opiate addict and quickly gobbled a few pills so Chauvin wouldn't find them. Chauvin was on top of him for ~10 minutes and Floyd stops moving a few minutes before that, so that's less than 10 minutes. That doesn't sound like enough time for an overdose via pills especially considering Floyd's preexisting tolerance to me, but could be wrong about oral drug metabolism rates
>>25356347>how do we explain the fact that Floyd was walking, talking, and moving right before Chauvin showed up?Because he was on methamphetamine and downed a bunch of fentanyl while being arrested, retard.
>>25354596kek
>>25356359It only takes 15 minutes and that's if you're taking something made in a lab designed so as not to shock your system. Given the presence of 4-ANPP, not to mention the likelihood Floyd bought cheap drugs instead of medical grade stuff, it was likely less.
>>25356360>because he was on methSure, this explains how he was walking, talking, and moving around on a normally lethal dose of fent, I can buy this. But what I'm having a harder time swallowing (lol) is that the fent he downed during the arrest (at least according to the defense) was a contributing factor in his death. That's less than 10 minutes for an oral dose of fent-laced pills to cause an overdose. It's hard for me to believe that it could happen that quickly, oral is the slowest route of administration other than dermal. I'd think you'd need at least 20 minutes and maybe more like 30
>>25356369>That's less than 10 minutes for an oral dose of fent-laced pills to cause an overdoseYou're assuming he didn't already have any in his system and he died instantly as soon as he stopped moving. What you see is him gradually slowing down over an extended period as the drugs he ingested take affect. Also, being in panic mode alters digestion so that it becomes erratic (sometimes it slows and sometimes it speeds up). Considering he was wacked out on drugs to begin with (i.e. the meth and free floating morphine) swallowing a copious amount of street made fentanyl put him over the edge (if he wasn't already).
>>2535636715 to 30, so 15 is under ideal conditions. Haven't eaten + no existing tolerance is what I'd imagine, and I don't think that's the case with Floyd. Do fent analogs get into your system faster than fent when both are taken orally? I know some are more potent than fent, but that doesn't necessarily mean they get into your blood faster, it just means you need less for the same effect, and I'm not sure if we can say with certainty exactly what analog Floyd took
>>25356384>15 is under ideal conditionsIt's not "ideal conditions", anon. It varies from person to person. Also, we're talking about street fentanyl that wasn't created in a lab for medical purposes. Further, he was already on drugs and you're assuming the full amount had to be metabolized for him to OD.
>>25356326>Nope. Check out his toxicology reportDid you read the cause of death which is mentioned title of the coroner report? and the listed manner of death? overdose isn't mentioned there.>FYI: 4-ANPP shows up when someone takes bad fentanyl that wasn't professionally manufactured (i.e. it's common in overdose).Source?
>>25356335>>25356336>>25356343Here's a guy who checked into the hospital because he was having fentanyl WITHDRAWALS even though he had twice floyd's level of fentanyl in his body:>This case was notified to the regional addictovigilance center as recommended by the French health authorities [1]. At the beginning of the hospitalization, toxicological urine drug screening by immune-enzymology assay was negative for barbiturate, benzodiazepines, methadone, buprenorphine, amphetamines, cocaine, opiates, cannabis, and alcohol. Chromatographic screening (LC-MS/MS) revealed the presence of fentanyl and norfentanyl (plasma fentanyl concentration 21.4 ng/ml, norfentanyl 1.5 ng/ml).[...]>In our case, the measured fentanyl plasma concentrations were compatible with a very high opioid tolerance (fentanyl plasma concentration at 21.4 ng/ml). Indeed, taking into account the lethal plasma concentrations reported earlier, the plasma concentrations found in our patient could have been lethal in a non-opioid-tolerant subject. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00228-017-2272-9There are people who are able to drive around (and got arrested for drug use while driving) who had around ten times as much fentanyl in their system:>In a series of cases, submitted for DUID testing over 12 months, fentanyl concentrations in blood ranged from 0.22 to 230 ng/mL (n = 2322)https://www.nmslabs.com/sites/default/files/2022-12/tolerance-paper.pdf Another case where a woman had to be given a lot of fentanyl for heart surgery. The doctors estimated it took her 293 ng/mL of fentanyl to become unresponsive:>Using pharmacokinetic simulation software (Stanpump, Stanford, CA), the fentanyl effect site concentration at the time of unresponsiveness was predicted to be 293 ng/mL. https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14633538/
>>25356413The lady in the 3rd study was also much smaller than floyd, so the drugs would affect her more than it would affect him:>A 47-yr-old female, 168 cm, 92 kg, presented for a repeat tricuspid valve replacement.
>>25356409>Did you read the cause of death which is mentioned title of the coroner report?The coroner originally found that his death was caused by asphyxia due to drug overdose combined with existing cardiopulmonary disease, specifically noting there was no physical indication that asphyxia was caused by an outside force, and later changed it. >Here's a guy who checked into the hospital because he was having fentanyl WITHDRAWALS even though he had twice floyd's level of fentanyl in his bodyIt's called "reasonable doubt", anon. The fact is the standard amount of fentanyl seen in overdose was exceeded multiple times over when it comes to Floyd and an outlier case doesn't prove anything.
>>25356421We're any of them also on methamphetamine, anon?
>>25356382Right, it varies from person to person, but generally speaking if 15 minutes is the shortest time for drugs to take effect if taken by mouth, and Floyd dies in less than 10, it makes me doubt that the drugs the defense claims he took by mouth were the cause. I'm not sure if street fent analogs get into the bloodstream quicker than regular fent. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I would imagine that higher potency translates to quicker onset, but a) we don't know the potency of what Floyd supposedly took b) we don't know the dose c) that much quicker? Idk about that>>25356382I could see the argument that he was already on the verge of an overdose and whatever he swallowed, however small, pushed him over the edge. But >what you see is him gradually slowing down over an extended period as the drugs he ingested take effectwhich, sure, but we could also be seeing him gradually slowing down as he suffocates, and whatever he ingested would have to take effect stunningly quickly for oral medication, even if we accept the "pushed him over the edge" idea. It's possible, sure, but it seems pretty unlikely to me. From my perspective the simplest explanation is that he was drugged out with an enlarged heart, which made him way more likely to die from physical stress, ie someone kneeling on top of you, which is what killed him. If he struggles for another 20mins or so and then dies, probably the drugs he took by mouth, but that isn't what happened, and if someone with a normal sized heart and no drugs was in that situation then they'd probably live, but that wasn't Floyd when Chauvin got to him
>>25356409>Source?Look it up. Aside, do you honestly think Floyd was buying premium medical grade fent or the stuff produced specifically as a street drug?
>>25356432>Right, it varies from person to person, but generally speaking He already had morphine in his system as well as methamphetamine, anon. Also, certain types of fentanyl can metabolize in 3-4 minutes. You're giving a figure for medical grade fentanyl made in a lab.
>>25356427>The coroner originally found that his death was caused by asphyxia due to drug overdose combined with existing cardiopulmonary disease,[citation needed]The original press release (released on june 1st 2020) was posted here. The original and full coroners report was released on june 4th 2020 and also posted here. Neither of them say it was due to drug overdose:>>25356224
>>25356460>citation neededLook it up (it was in his testimony). He also testified that he received hundreds of threats for him to change his findings.
>>25356468Prove it. Post the quote from his testimony
>>25356431>A comprehensive analysis performed on the specimen detected the presence of fentanyl at a concentration of 303 ±33 ng/mL (k = 2), two fentanyl metabolites (norfentanyl and 4-ANPP), methamphetamine at 119 ±11 ng/mL (k = 2) and its metabolite amphetamine and xylazine.[...]>If viewed in isolation as a value from a toxicology report, it could have been assumed that this was a subject from a postmortem case who had over-dosed, rather than a semi-functional driver operating his motorvehicle.This guy was driving around with far more fentanyl and meth in his blood than floyd. The police stopped him and took him to the hospital:https://sci-hub.st/https://doi.org/10.1093/jat/bkab050
>>25356447>Also, certain types of fentanyl can metabolize in 3-4 minutesThere's just no fucking way it gets into your bloodstream in 3-4 minutes if you swallow it by mouth. I could see this being true for sublingual fent, but eating it? The drug has to dissolve and cross the gut wall to be absorbed into the blood>you're giving a figure for medical grade fent made in a labWhat I'm talking about right now is the biomechanics of it -- the drug has to hit the stomach, dissolve, be transferred to the small intestine, and then absorbed through the intestinal wall to enter the blood. Once we're at that point in the process, I absolutely buy that higher potency/certain street analogs hit way, way quicker than medical fent, but on the quick end that's 15 minutes and maybe 10 if it's very fast
>>25356309>>25356315neato I learned something. So did the cop manage to begin the process of asphyxiation before he touched fentanyl floyd? How was he unable to breath before being restrained?And again I would just like one person to answer this question:Do you think George "Fentanyl" Floyd would have put himself in the position to have the police called on him if he decided not to use fentanyl and meth that day? Do you think a sober, **46** year old man, with prior convictions, would act like a buffoon in a store waving a banana before spending counterfeit money?
>>25356476>put himself in the position to have the police called on him if he decided not to use fentanyl and meth that dayusing fentanyl and meth isn't a capital crime>act like a buffoon in a store waving a banana before spending counterfeit moneyacting like a buffoon and using counterfeit money isn't a capital crime
>>25356470I'm not going to go through his testimony, anon. It's public record and you can look it up just like you did regarding 4-ANPP. The fact is Chauvin didn't receive a fair trial and he was railroaded. The jury even later said on CNN that they found him guilty because he failed to provide medical assistance and not specifically because they thought Chauvin using a standard method of restraint was the primary cause of his death.
>>25356476>neato I learned something. So did the cop manage to begin the process of asphyxiation before he touched fentanyl floyd? How was he unable to breath before being restrained?he was claustrophobic and was just panicking before that point.http://archive.today/2026.05.29-181138/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/us/george-floyd-knee-on-neck.html>The doctor also rejected the defense’s arguments about drugs, saying that videos show Mr. Floyd breathing at a normal rate before he went unconscious, meaning any fentanyl in his system was “not having an effect” on his breathing.
>>25356468>>25356488I looked it up and I didn't see anything about him changing his findings.
>>25352625Dumb reason to hate it, no one cares about your birthday. I don't like it because I hated the February through Memorial Day stretch without a work holiday. And now thanks to Juneteenth, my job junked President's Day so now it's a January through May stretch without a holiday and back to back summer holidays (i hate the heat, more spring and autumn holidays needed).
>>25356472Outliers don't prove anything anon. The fact is the standard level seen in overdoses is far lower than that seen in Floyd AND he also had cardiopulmonary disease as well as a tonne of morphine, amphetamine, and methamphetamine in his system. >>25356474>There's just no fucking way It depends on the type of fentanyl, anon. It also depends on individual constitution and whether or not the full amount had to be metabolized for him to OD. There's also the fact he already had high levels in his system as well as other drugs present.
>>25352933*porn and video gaming
>>25356507addicts, especially long term users like floyd, have a higher resistance to drugs than normies
>>25356491>"George Floyd's family requested a second, independent autopsy because they lacked faith in local officials and felt the initial official findings did not adequately address the forceful neck compression by the police or the extent to which that force caused his death.>The initial autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner ruled Floyd's death a homicide but cited "cardiopulmonary arrest" and pointed heavily to underlying heart disease and the presence of drugs (fentanyl and methamphetamine) in his system. Floyd's legal team and family sought an independent examination to establish a more direct link between the physical force used by the officers and his suffocation.>Key Differences Between the Two Autopsies:>The Second Autopsy: Conducted by renowned forensic pathologists Dr. Michael Baden and Dr. Allecia Wilson, this report concluded Floyd died of mechanical asphyxiation (deprivation of oxygen) directly resulting from the sustained neck and back compression, with no underlying health conditions causing or contributing to his death.>The Official Autopsy: The county medical examiner later clarified that while the drugs and heart disease were present, they were "complicating" factors rather than the direct cause of death. They maintained that the law enforcement subdual and neck compression ultimately caused his heart to stop.
>>25356515Phillip Seymour Hoffman was a habitual drug user and he died from a speedball. Can you firmly establish Floyd could handle a lethal amount of fentanyl, several times over, combined with methamphetamine (as well as other amphetamines and morphine) especially given he had an underlying cardiopulmonary disease?
>>25356520this is an ai generated response
>>25356522>Phillip Seymour Hoffman was a habitual drug user and he died from a speedball. Can you firmly establish Floyd could handle a lethal amount of fentanyl, several times over, combined with methamphetamine (as well as other amphetamines and morphine) especially given he had an underlying cardiopulmonary disease?I didn't say it makes you immune. I said it makes you more resistant. And you haven't given any details of the dosage he was on or what drugs were involved.Can you show evidence that the level of drugs in floyds system would be lethal to most people who are already heavily using those drugs?
>>25356487not an answer.>>25356489so was fentie floyd lying when he said he couldn't breathe? Do you think being high on fent and meth after committing a felony by spending counterfeit cash maybe contributed to him panicking?
>>25356526And? The source from which it derived its response was the NYT (one of the most prominent publications that played a major part in Chauvin being railroaded). The initial finding was that Chauvin died because of drug overdose and cardiopulmonary disease with police subdual as a contributing factor. BLM financed a second autopsy because it specifically wanted to find neck compression as the sole factor in Floyd's death. Also, you know the jury later said in interviews that it wasn't Chauvin kneeling on Floyd that lead them to find him guilty but rather the fact he failed to provide medical assistance, right?
>>25356531>I didn't say it makes you immuneAnswer the question, anon. Can you firmly establish Floyd could handle a lethal amount of fentanyl, several times over, combined with methamphetamine (as well as other amphetamines and morphine) especially given he had an underlying cardiopulmonary disease?>Can you show evidence that the level of drugs in floyds system would be lethal to most people who are already heavily using those drugs?Yes, the fact that the standard level seen in overdoses was far lower than that present in Floyd. This alongside the fact he was also on methamphetamine, other amphetamines, morphine, and had an underlying cardiopulmonary condition. There's also the matter of him freaking out and resisting arrest (more than a little taxing on one's respiratory system).
>>25356540>The initial finding was that Chauvin died because of drug overdose and cardiopulmonary disease with police subdual as a contributing factor. BLM financed a second autopsy because it specifically wanted to find neck compression as the sole factor in Floyd's death.The initial finding didn't say anything about drug overdose: >>25356224The second autopsy was by someone completely different.https://abcnews.com/US/independent-autopsy-george-floyd-findings-announced/story?id=70994827>Dr. Michael Baden and the University of Michigan Medical School's director of autopsy and forensic services, Dr. Allecia Wilson, handled the newly announced independent examination.he didn't change his ruling.
>>25356548>>>Can you show evidence that the level of drugs in floyds system would be lethal to most people who are already heavily using those drugs?>Yes, the fact that the standard level seen in overdoses was far lower than that present in Floyd. can you show evidence thats the case for most who used drugs as heavily as him.
>>25356548the meth would actually make it more likely for someone to survive an otherwise lethal dosage of fent. it counteracts the aspects of the fentanyl which slow down breath.
>>25356507>It depends on the type of fentanyl... individual constitution... full amount metabolizedI'm talking about the amount of time it takes for an oral medication to pass through the gut wall. Once you're through the gut wall, I could see that the time of onset depends on the type of medication, individual constitution, existing tolerance, etc. But biomechanically, that takes an irreducible amount of time that's greater than 2 to 3 minutes
>>25356549>The initial finding didn't say anything about drug overdoseIt did, anon. You're just denying reality at this point. >he didn't change his rulingWhy did the Floyd family and BLM feel the need to fund a second autopsy then? Why did he say at trial that he meant to say neck compression was the primary factor despite there being no actual physical evidence to justify such a conclusion by a coroner?
>>25356552>can you show evidenceI gave you an argument, anon. Why aren't you answering the question I gave you, which is necessary for the sake of abolishing reasonable doubt, while failing to respond to the answer I gave?
>>25356548>Answer the question, anon. Can you firmly establish Floyd could handle a lethal amount of fentanyl, several times over, combined with methamphetamine (as well as other amphetamines and morphine) especially given he had an underlying cardiopulmonary disease?The lethal amount varies heavily, and there's plenty of cases with people having taken more than him. I've posted plenty of evidence of that. Where's your evidence it killed him?>>25356413>https://www.nmslabs.com/sites/default/files/2022-12/tolerance-paper.pdfThis paper shows there's hundreds of people arrested for DUIs with the same level or more of fentanyl in their body.>In a series of cases, submitted for DUID testing over 12 months, fentanyl concentrations in blood ranged from 0.22 to 230 ng/mL (n = 2322)If we look at the graph, 694 out of the 2322 people arrested for DUI had the same level or more of fentanyl that floyd did.
>>25356553>the meth would actually make it more likely for someone to surviveHoly fucking cope, lol. >>25356555>I'm talking about the amount of time it takes for an oral medicationYour body stops metabolizing fentynal the moment you die, anon.
>>25356556>Why did he say at trial that he meant to say neck compression was the primary factor despite there being no actual physical evidence to justify such a conclusion by a coroner?Wrong.>Myth: Strangulation always leaves visible injuries.>Fact: Studies show that over half the victims of strangulation lack visible external injury. A victim without visible external injury can still die from strangulation.https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/docs/JCS/courtSvcs/resources/Non-FatalStrangulationMyths.pdfThe source the court cites is:>Strack, G., McClane, G., & Hawley, D. (2001). A review of 300 attempted strangulation cases - Part I: Criminal legal issues. Journal of Emergency Medicine, 21(3), 303–309.
>>25356570>The lethal amount varies heavilyThat doesn't mean there isn't an average amount, retard. Floyd was several times over that amount, had several other drugs in his system, and an underlying cardiopulmonary disease.
>>25356572>Wrong.It isn't, anon. How does a coroner find neck compression to be a primary cause of death without any physical evidence, retard? Especially given the fact there are several other factors present such as multiple drug intoxication alongside an underlying cardiopulmonary condition?>DURR NOT ALWAYSR e a s o n a b l e . D o u b t.
>>25356578over half the victims lacked external injury. Im not seeing any evidence to support your position. I give a citation, and you just respond with nuh uh.
>>25356578>How does a coroner find neck compression to be a primary cause of death without any physical evidence, retard?They had a video of him being strangled that way.
>>25356571>Holy fucking cope, lol. thats what some studies suggest.>>25356472>https://sci-hub.st/https://doi.org/10.1093/jat/bkab050>It is possible that this individual’s ability to function with such a high blood concentration of fentanyl was buoyed by the co-use of the stimulant methamphetamine.
>>25356585>over half the victims lacked external injuryAnd? Post random citations all you want because it's pretty obvious you can't think on your feet, retard. The fact is there were two autopsies, the second autopsy was specifically funded by a special interest that wanted it to be found neck compression was the sole factor in Floyd's death, and the inital autopsy listed drug overdose and underlying cardiopulmonary disease as primary factors. Simple as.
>>25356556>It did, anon. You're just denying reality at this point.No it didn't. Please point to which part of the coroners initial report uses the words overdose? >>25356224>From the press release on june 1st, 2020:>>Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression>>Manner of death: Homicide >>How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)>https://web.archive.org/web/20200601231822/https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdf>And the title of the full report released on june 4th, 2020 gives the same cause of death:>https://web.archive.org/web/20200604001830/https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf/
>>25356587>They had a video of him being strangled that way.But nothing specific to physical injury when examining the body which is the primary purpose of a corner. Hmmmm.
>>25356596Drug overdose isn't mentioned at all here:>CASE TITLE: CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION
>>25356596>>25356599How the fuck do you think they figure out all those other victims were strangled without physical injury?
>>25356594>some studies suggestI don't fucking care about your cherry picked studies. They don't excuse you from writing a specific response to the arguments I've given you, idiot. >DURRR SOMETIMESI can post studies that show combining methamphetamine with shoddy synthetic heroin increases the likelihood of overdosing, dumb-fuck. It's common sense and cherry picking studies about outliers isn't a fucking argument. Holy shit you're dumb. Go back to plebbit. >>25356598See above.
>>25356599Coroners review other evidence too.An example of a coroner's office talking about it:>What does the Coroner do during a death investigation? >The FCCO involvement may be extensive or minimal, depending on the case. During a full death investigation, the FCCO will respond to a death scene, take photos and video, interview witnesses, gather evidence and samples associated with the decedent, record measurements, record body parameters, and transport the body to the morgue. Following the scene investigation, the FCCO will contact next of kin, request medical and other pertinent records, conduct an autopsy, submit toxicology samples, complete the investigation with a comprehensive report, and if requested, discuss this report with the family. In addition, certain cases may dictate radiographs, computer simulations, total scene documentation, and clinical pathology analysis. Forensic specialists, such as anthropologists and odontologists, may be called in as necessary.https://www.franklincountywa.gov/m/faq?cat=22
>>25356603It's a matter of fact that the initial autopsy listed drug overdose and cardiopulmonary disease as contributing factors in Floyd's death. That's why they privately financed a second autopsy you fucking retard. We've been over this.
>>25356614>>25356611
>>25356611>I can post studies that show combining methamphetamine with shoddy synthetic heroin increases the likelihood of overdosing, dumb-fuck. It's common sense and cherry picking studies about outliers isn't a fucking argument. Holy shit you're dumb. Go back to plebbit. Ok, post your studies then. Show some evidence.This isn't a tiny outlier:https://www.nmslabs.com/sites/default/files/2022-12/tolerance-paper.pdfThis paper shows there's hundreds of people arrested for DUIs with the same level or more of fentanyl in their body.>In a series of cases, submitted for DUID testing over 12 months, fentanyl concentrations in blood ranged from 0.22 to 230 ng/mL (n = 2322)If we look at the graph, 694 out of the 2322 people arrested for DUI had the same level or more of fentanyl that floyd did.
>>25356615>It's a matter of fact that the initial autopsy listed drug overdose and cardiopulmonary disease as contributing factors in Floyd's death. That's why they privately financed a second autopsy you fucking retard. We've been over thisHere is the initial autopsy. Which page says overdosing caused his death?https://web.archive.org/web/20200604001830/https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf/
>>25356619>If we look at the graph, 694 out of the 2322 people arrested for DUI had the same level or more of fentanyl that floyd did.That's about 29% of them. A little under a third.
>>25356619>Ok, post your studies thenI don't need to because I'm not a retard that can't look at facts and form arguments based on them you fucking moron. >DURR THIS GOOGLE SEARCH SHOWS SOMETIMESIsn't a fucking argument. You're not directly addressing what I'm saying. You're just posting tangential cherry picked shit because you can't actually form an argument against what I've said.
>>25356571>Your body stops metabolizing fentynal the moment you die, anon.You're not listening to what I'm saying. An oral medication has to enter the blood to effect the person who takes it. In order to enter the blood, it has to be dissolved in the stomach, pass into the small intestine, and then be absorbed through the gut wall into the blood. That entire process takes more than 2 to 3 minutes. That's what I'm saying
>>25356548>Answer the question, anon. Can you firmly establish Floyd could handle a lethal amount of fentanyl, several times over, combined with methamphetamine (as well as other amphetamines and morphine) especially given he had an underlying cardiopulmonary disease?This was established at the trial. Look it up.
>>25356622See >>25356520.
>>25356548>>25356633https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/toxicologist-testifies-that-drugs-and-heart-disease-did-not-kill-george-floyd
>>25356634>>25356520>The initial autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner ruled Floyd's death a homicide
>>25356633It wasn't established at the trial. Different experts argued different things and the jury later said they found Chauvin guilty because he should have helped Floyd (not because they thought his actions were the sole cause of Floyd's death). Trials aren't infallible you fucking retard. Why do you think appeals exist? How many people have been found guilty and later exonerated?
>>25356636Not an argument, anon. See >>25356520. Notice how we're just posting sources back in forth instead of actually discussing things? You're a fucking moron who can't think on his own.
>>25356641>the jury later said they found Chauvin guilty because he should have helped Floyd (not because they thought his actions were the sole cause of Floyd's death).Source?
>>25356647>SOURCE!!!Fuck off. Look it up, dumbass.
>>25356643>Notice how we're just posting sources back in forth instead of actually discussing things? You're a fucking moron who can't think on his own.an AI generated response is not a source.
>>25356649I did. I couldn't find anything that said the entire jury only convicted him because he should have helped floyd.
>>25356650> AI generated response is not a sourceSays who? Neither are cherry picked articles about outliers presented in lieu of directly refuting specific arguments regarding the specific context of this particular, retard. >>25356654It's a CNN interview with Don Lemon.
>>25356659>Neither are cherry picked articles about outliers presented in lieu of directly refuting specific arguments regarding the specific context of this particular, retard.How many articles do you need for something to stop being cherrypicking.This shows that at least 29% percent fentanyl abusers could take floyd's dose and still function (as show by how they were arrested during driving):>>25356619around 30% is minority, but it is not an outlier at all.
>>25356659 it seems only 1 of the jurors was unsure about that.>As the jurors considered the murder charges, Mr. Mitchell said, they focused at one point on the exact cause of Mr. Floyd’s death. Many jurors said they believed the prosecutors’ version of what had happened — that Mr. Chauvin’s knee had caused Mr. Floyd’s death — but at least one juror who supported a conviction said she could not be sure that Mr. Chauvin’s knee had been the cause. Still, Mr. Mitchell recalled, the juror said she believed that the former officer was nonetheless responsible because he had continued to pin Mr. Floyd down even after he lost consciousness and never provided medical aid.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/us/chauvin-jury-brandon-mitchell.html
>>25356659what percentage does something stop being an outlier at?
>>25356663>How many articles do you need0. I need you to directly address the arguments I've given without resorting to copy pasting greentext that is often tangential and about outliers (i.e. DURR, SOMETIMES SOME PEOPLE CAN TAKE MORE DRUGS AND NOT DIE). If you want to inform your opinion through research that's fine. However, ignoring the specific context of this particular case and posting the results of your Google searches, devoid of directly addressing my posts while failing to explain why you think a particular point you've raised relates specifically to a point I have raised and refutes it, in context, isn't an argument. The fact this has to be explained to you makes you a retard.
>>25356678You want me to teach you stats too now, anon? If someone is several times over the average of the amount of drugs commonly found in overdoses why is it not reasonable to assume an overdose has occured? The answer isn't "well things can vary and we don't know for sure" because if we don't know for sure that's the definition of reasonable doubt.
>>25356680 You're genuinely fucking retarded. You don't know what terms like tangential, outlier, or cherry picking mean.
>>25356684>You're genuinely fucking retardedSays the moron who can't put things in his own words and respond to specific context. LOL.
>>25356683>If someone is several times over the average of the amount of drugs commonly found in overdoses why is it not reasonable to assume an overdose has occured?Source for that amount?Floyds was not the average person in regards to drug tolerance, so you can't use the average here. Floyd was a habitual opioid user and had been using it for years. That increases tolerance of opioids. It's well known that the average opioid addict can survive a dose that would kill someone who has never used opioids before.As I showed, in at least 29% of cases people with the same or higher level of fent can function fine.
>>25356692>Source for that amount?It has already been posted ITT. >Floyds was not the average personThat's the thing about populations, moron. One isn't talking about a single point of data, like you've been trying to do, but rather an entire array of statistically valid data that one can then use to standardize the likelihood of a given outcome in an individual case. Maybe if you spent less time posting Google searches and actually thinking you wouldn't put yourself as an obvious retard.
>>25356571>>25356594>>25356611>I can post studies that show combining methamphetamine with shoddy synthetic heroin increases the likelihood of overdosing, dumb-fuck. It's common sense and cherry picking studies about outliers isn't a fucking argument. Holy shit you're dumb. Go back to plebbit.If the dose of meth is small that can be an issue and make things worse, but larger doses reverse the repiratory depression effects of fentanyl, apparently even better than naxalone according to the graphs here.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9881117/>Under depressed conditions the bidirectional effects of AMPH and METH on respiration were exaggerated, exacerbating and then reversing fentanyl-induced depression as dose increased.In this study they were trying to find ways to revive people on fent
>>25356708>>25356680
>>25352827Im white and most of my extended family is black because of brain drain out of the south
>>25356710How does this not directly address your argumetn about meth and fent?
>>25356702>It has already been posted ITT. where?>One isn't talking about a single point of data, like you've been trying to do, but rather an entire array of statistically valid data that one can then use to standardize the likelihood of a given outcome in an individual case.That's not what I was doing. I gave hundreds of points of data. What's the flaw with them? Why are they statistically invalid?Keep in mind that floyd is not part of the general population. He's part of the long term opioid user population. Trying to assume something from the general population of opioid naive people and apply it to him, is an improper generalization.
>>25356714Ok, I'll click the article and refute it but this is the only time I'm going to play this game. Before doing so I'm going to once again point out you aren't actually linking this to the specific context of George Floyd and I will once again state that combining a stimulant like meth with a depressant like fentynal is widely known to cause death. Give me 5 minutes because I think I'll need less--my guess is you don't actually know how to read these studies and are merely presenting them because you can't actually form an argument.
>>25356680>>How many articles do you need>0. I need you to directly address the arguments I've given without resorting to copy pasting greentext that is often tangential and about outliersAnd how is one supposed to address your questions, if citing an article is unnecessary? >However, ignoring the specific context of this particular caseWhat context had been ignored?
>>25356643From your ai generated post:>The initial autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner ruled Floyd's death a homicide
>>25356714>These results indicate that co-use of amphetamines with fentanyl may worsen respiratory depression, but conversely, monoaminergic components of the amphetamines may possibly be exploited to mitigate fentanyl overdose.Ok, so-- the study isn't arguing that combining higher levels of meth with fentynal is necessarily safer than taking a lower dose of the latter. It's specifically about the mechanism by which Naloxone works you fucking retard. Holy shit.
>>25356739>It's specifically about the mechanism by which Naloxone works you fucking retard. Holy shit.no its just using naxalone as a comparison (it also uses a placebo as a comparison at one point). the study is about meth and fent.Look at the title:>Amphetamines modulate fentanyl-depressed respiration in a bidirectional mannerand naxalone and meth have totally different mechanisms
>>25356746>and naxalone and meth have totally different mechanisms>Crystal methamphetamine ('ice') triggers the release of three chemicals in the brain, called dopamine, serotonin and noradrenalinehttps://cracksintheice.org.au/how-does-ice-workWhereas naxalone works by blocking opioid receptors in the brain
>>25356746>no its just using naxalone as a comparisonIt's specifically about the pathways by which Naxalone works and relating them to other types of amphetamine, retard. Holy shit. Did you even compare the amounts given in the study to those found in Floyd? No, of course you didn't. You're a fucking moron. We're done.
>>25356746>Considering psychostimulant overdoses have increased over 3-fold since 2013, and half of those co-involved opioids, this is a cardinal question.Lol, refuted by the first paragraph. Holy shit you're stupid. How about you try reading the arguments being made, reading the actual study, and then putting together argument using your own cognitive ability (note: you don't have any) that relates directly to the subject at hand? Seriously, anon. I'm fucking embarrassed for you. Holy shit.
>>25356746>furiously scanning the study he didn't read seeing words he doesn't understand so he can copy/paste some greentext and imagine it's relevant to the subject at handHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>25356749>It's specifically about the pathways by which Naxalone works and relating them to other types of amphetamine,Naxalone is not a type of amphetamine.
>>25356760And how was that done? What’s irrelevant and why?
>>25356757That can be because the dose was too low. Did you see figure 6 and 7?
>>25356796You're right. I shouldn't have limited myself to 5 minutes to skim a study I had to take in pretty much from scratch. If anything that highlights how posting studies you yourself haven't read while failing to relate them to the specific context of arguments under discussion is pretty disingenuous and retarded though. Anyway, not interested in sliding about how to save junkies. >>25356804>do what I haven't done for this entire thread and argue with my randomly selected greentext I didn't bother to relate to the specific arguments you made within the specific context of the case we're discussingLol
>>25356816Did you before you posted it? No? Ok then. Stop posting the first thing you find in a Google search you think proves me wrong without actually reading it and relating it back to the specific context of our discussion? How about that?
>>25356823The figure 6 and 7 show that low dose of meth (or amphetamines) makes breathing depression from fent slightly worse. But higher doses reverse the depression completely
>>25356842>The figure 6 and 7 show that low dose of methWe both know you didn't read the study before posting it, anon. Stop fucking around. Besides, you aren't relating it to Floyd. According to the study 50% of methamphetamine overdoses involve opioids. Given that information it's reasonable to assert that ingesting meth in the hope that one specific component of intoxication due to meth will save you from fentynal isn't a reasonable position to take and you're grasping at straws. Anyway, this is becoming a slide taking us away from the main point of discussion.
>>25356856> Besides, you aren't relating it to Floyd. I wasnt the one who insisted floyds meth mattered and claimed he it helped him od on fent> According to the study 50% of methamphetamine overdoses involve opioids.Meth overdose works different from opioid overdose. Not a counter argument againt it preventing opioid overdoses in sufficient amount .
>>25356856>Anyway, this is becoming a slideThat's an interesting way to phrase that, I don't see anons use that a lot. Where'd you pick that up?
>>25356683> if we don't know for sure that's the definition of reasonable doubt.No, it’s not. Beyond all doubt is different from beyond a reasonable doubt. Someone who matches the dna of a murder perpetrator could claim their secret twin committed the murder. That’s always a possibility, but they would need to provide evidence they have a secret twin.
>>25356870>I wasnt the one who insisted floyds meth mattered and claimed he it helped him od on fentCorrect, you're the one failing to refute the claims I've and posting studies you haven't even read.>>25356885>No, it’s not.Splitting hairs. Not interested.
>>25356890Not that anon, but how is that splitting hairs? The definition of what is being argued totally changes. You can't say they're the same because they both have the word reasonable.
>>25356890How am I failing to refute it? What’s wrong with my explanation of the studies relevance to your claim?
>>25356522Well he was walking around fine minutes earlier. Opioid overdoses take time and are gradual. They arent a magic switch that happens. Youd have to be insisting it magically took effect right after chauvin put floyd in the restraint under him.He’s not exhibiting any signs of opioid overdose either.
>>25356908>how is that splitting hairs?It's more that the example he's giving doesn't really apply to the conversation at hand. I'm obviously not arguing something as far-fetched as "an invisible twin" scenario but rather drawing attention to the fact it's a perfectly reasonable argument that drug overdose was the major factor in George Floyd's death given the evidence and arguments presented. Several times over the average level of fatal overdose, the fact he was also on several different types of amphetamine including meth alongside morphine, the cardiopulmonary disease, the fact he was extremely agitated (i.e. the potential of exited delirium played a roll in his death). Pointing toward these specific facts alongside other arguments involving the coroner's reports (btw, did you know the coroner Floyd's family hired, for the express purpose of listing trauma as the sole cause of his death, was the same guy who conducted the Epstein autopsy that said it was a conclusively a suicide?) and things the jury said about how they came to their verdict is much more reasonable than "invisible twins". We haven't even got into how politicization corrupted the trial yet.So, instead of answering the question I posed, inviting direct criticism of the points I've made, that anon chose to create a strawman about how I've construed reasonable doubt. It's "splitting hairs" in the sense that he said:> Beyond all doubt is different from beyond a reasonable doubtgiven the context of our discussion. Perhaps the word choice was a bit faulty on my end but it's honestly all the energy that post deserved.>>25356929>How am I failing to refute it?Well, we both know you haven't been reading any of the studies you've posted and have simply been posting the first thing you come across because you've already made you mind up and aren't open to honest debate. I've explained multiple times now how most of what you've posted isn't directly related to the specific context of our discussion while trying to guide you toward actually constructing your own arguments; if you can incorporate the studies you've posted all the better. That's the general point. Specifically, you haven't demonstrated that study relates to what did happen when it comes to Floyd. You haven't shown Floyd's level of intoxication matches that posed in the study and it still remains that it is simply something that "could maybe happen" and not definitely did happen. What's more, you haven't even thought to address the duration of affect when it comes to the phenomena and, as I've stated above, everyone knows that speedballs are an especially deadly combination. >>25356938>Opioid overdoses take time and are gradualSpeedball and he also had a cardiopulmonary disease. Also, didn't he also have COVID?
>>25356988> Speedball and he also had a cardiopulmonary disease. Also, didn't he also have COVID?Any evidence those magically negate fentanyl symptoms yet allow one to overdose?
>>25356988> I'm obviously not arguing something as far-fetched as "an invisible twin" scenarioI didnt say invisible twin, i said secret twin.Actually lets make it easier, is just claiming you have a twin enough to create reasonable doubt?
>Well Phelps. Despite having a large amount of Fentanyl in his system at the time of his death, we can reasonably conclude that he had died of strangulation.
>>25356988Excited delirium is made up nonsense. https://www.press.jhu.edu/newsroom/excited-delirium-why-does-discredited-term-stick-around
>>25356994>Any evidence those magically negate fentanyl symptomsI'm not sure what you mean by "magically negate fentanyl symptoms", anon. The fact he was also on meth means that the effects of the fentanyl could potentially come on all at once, that's what makes speedballs so deadly, and the excitation he displayed alongside the fact he had a cardiopulmonary disorder (I think his arteries were found to be like 90% clogged alongside having an enlarged heart) certainly means sedation and death could come on suddenly. >>25357001>I didnt say invisible twin, i said secret twinNow that's what I call splitting hairs. >>25357010Maybe, maybe not. There's still the multiple other factors I've repeatedly brought up.
>>25357016> Now that's what I call splitting hairs.no its not. invisible people are not real. But theres many cases of people having siblings that they or the government dont know about. Theres people who are held captive by family in locked rooms while the rest of their siblings are free.Also You didnt adress the rest of the post:>Actually lets make it easier, is just claiming you have a twin enough to create reasonable doubt?
>>25357016still not splitting hairs retard. you literally changed his argument so it'd be easier to knock down. so disingenuous.
Nœœœ how dare you besmirch Floyd’s hagiography!
>>25357020>no its not. invisible people are not realFor fuck's sake, anon. I explained in great detail how the claims I've made are in no way similar to positing invisible, wait wait wait SECRET!, twins exist.>Also You didnt adress the rest of the postI don't care to, anon. Sorry.
>>25357021>splitting hairs over "splitting hairs"Christ.
>>25356988What is the average level of a fatal overdose ? You havent given a source.
is this ai or are u guys really arguing about a psyop from 2020 like it matters
>>25357031It's in the thread. Go ahead and Google it or search the thread for yourself.
>>25357026Simple question, someone was born without a birth certificate and says his twin killed a person instead of him. He could be lying. Or he could be telling the truth and his twin also doesnt have a birth certificate.Is that enough to create reasonable doubt.
>>25357031>>25357034This study suggests the average overdose level is over twice the level floyd had. > The substance abuse deaths had a mean fentanyl blood concentration (26.4 ng/ml or μg/L)https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3576505/
>>25357032Yeah, you're right. At this point it's a pretty meaningless discussion and I could be reading my Juneteeth selection.
>>25357036That scenario is a classic example of speculative defense and generally would not be enough to create reasonable doubt on its own.In legal terms, "reasonable doubt" requires evidence that makes a specific alternative theory plausible, not just a theoretical possibility. Simply claiming "I have a secret twin who did it" without any corroborating evidence (like DNA proof of the twin's existence, a motive, or a timeline placing the twin at the scene) is considered a frivolous defense.
>>25357032None of them really care about the thing they're arguing, it's all a gambit to preserve their own ego - i must win!It's funny - the preservation of the ego is a survival mechanism that developed to ensure your tribe respected you and wouldn't abandon you, but since this is an internet forum, it literally does not matter and they are basically apes getting caught up in their own defunct survival mechanisms.If you showed an alien this thread it would react the same way you do to a dog chasing its own tail. Humorous amusement.
>>25357039That's for patches and the data involves intentional suicides (i.e. the dosage would be higher than expected in such cases).Anon, you've really got to stop posting studies you haven't read as if they're arguments while failing to relate them to data I've presented in the thread. If you do it again I'm not responding to you anymore.
>>25357042Thats somewhat correct, but i just know you asked AI to write that response.
>>25357045None of this is to imply they are equal, by the way, I think the "he overdosed" anon is a disingenuous hack, but they'd both be better off leaving because obviously no one is changing anyones mind.
>>25357048rude
>>25357047You didnt read the study. The mean fentanyl concentration in suicides in that study was way higher at 95.8 ng/mL.See table 2
>>25357045>None of them really care about the thing they're arguing, it's all a gambit to preserve their own ego - i must win!I care about it, anon. I don't like it when people are presented with valid facts and arguments and are seemingly incapable of interacting with them. If this were about "winning" I would have left the thread a while ago because it's quite obvious at this point the people, or rather anonymous strangers I couldn't care less about on a personal level, I'm attempting to have a conversation with wouldn't know they've lost. It's very obvious that nothing I could say would change their minds because they're already made up and have been since long before this discussion even began.
>>25357055>You didnt read the studyNeither did you. Again, if you want to take information you've ascertained via the study and use it to form an argument against whatever point it was about, I confess I'm losing interest, go ahead because otherwise we're done.
>>25357053It also gets things wrong. Reasonable doubt doesnt require an alternate theory. The defense has no obligation to prove their case unless they’re using an affirmative defense. The burden of proof is on the prosecution. Also>>25357042> DNA proof of the twin's existencegeg. The issue is the twin has the same dna.
>>25357059My point is your counterargument is invalid. The accidental deaths and sucides in the study are measured separately.
>>25357047> That's for patchesSo? How does that affect the way their levels were measured?
>>25357068>My point is your counterargument is invalidSo fentanyl isn't extremely dangerous at pretty much any level, the fact it was combined with other opioids should just be brushed away, speedballs aren't a notorious cocktail when it comes to overdose, and the fact Floyd suffered from significant cardiopulmonary disease (enlarged heart and the so-called "silent killer" of !!90%!! clogged arteries) doesn't mean anything? You want to treat these things in isolation but the fact is they were together and must be taken together, anon.>he accidental deaths and sucides in the study are measured separatelyDid any of these suicides also have serious cardiopulmonary disease, take other drugs that are known to increase the fatality of fentanyl, and were they resisting arrest and very excited at the time of death? Floyd was on a very high dose of fentanyl and had a significant amount of morphine in his system and also had meth in his system, anon. Not to mention the enlarged heart, clogged arteries, the stress of being arrested, rapidly ingesting more drugs so they wouldn't be found by the police, and fighting.
>>25357087> In our study, 92 % of the accidental intoxication deaths involved the detection of multiple drugs.
>>25357082Well, it probably affects the manner and rapidity of absorption and the specific type of fentanyl may be different. If you're using it as an argument you should know these things, anon. However, we both know you've once again simply done a Google search, posted the first thing you saw that you think contradicts me, and failed to actually construct an argument that's related to any of mine.
>>25357089Which ones? I specifically asked about drugs that increase the fatality of fentanyl. Also, don't forget the cardiopulmonary disease.
>/lit/ - Literature>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literature: Literature is any collection of written work. The term is also used more narrowly for writings considered an art form, especially novels, plays, and poems. It includes both print and digital writing In recent centuries, the definition has expanded to include oral literature, much of which has been transcribed. Literature is a method of recording, preserving, and transmitting knowledge and entertainment. It can also have a social, psychological, spiritual, or political role. >Fifty different anons, for some fucking reason: Gee, this seems like a perfect place to debate about George Floyd!
>>25357090They both measured the post mortem levels via blood draw.Are you saying that the patch makes that method of measurement innacurate somehow? Do you have evidence for that claim?Do we even know what method floyd used to take fentanyl? How do you know it was something other than a patch?
>>25357092See table 5
>>25357098This thread was made for off topic bait posting. The OP premise wasn’t even possible because libraries are closed on public holidays and as has already been stated, he would not have read any of those books if he did just check them out so there was no discussion to be had. It’s a bait thread.
>>25357098Based but this was a bait thread fronting a highly politicized topic, a fake holiday astroturfed by identarian ideologues, so what do you expect? Anyway, I'll stop now. >>25357104>Are you saying that the patch makes that method of measurement innacurate somehow? Could be. You sure are avoiding any discussion of the comorbidity of having several different drugs known to enhance the fatality of taking a large amount of fentanyl in one's system and the cardiopulmonary disease. Also, the fact he had COVID, the fact he was stressed from being arrested, the fact he was fighting police, etc etc. >Do we even know what method floyd used to take fentanyl? He popped a bunch of pills in his mouth and broken pills (amphetamines and fentanyl) were found in the police car.>>25357110Maybe one day you'll be able to come up with a better argument than "THIS GUY SAYS YOU'RE WRONG!" (while posting something that totally misses the point and proves nothing). I doubt it though. You seem dumb.Anyway, this guy is right: >>25357098. Bye.
Miltiple studies with a mean fentanyl level at death higher than floyd:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17553084/https://ww2.uthscsa.edu/artt/addictionjc/2020-02-11-sutter.pdfhttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17132259/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14607006/
>>25357120> Maybe one day you'll be able to come up with a better argument than "THIS GUY SAYS YOU'RE WRONG!" (while posting something that totally misses the point and proves nothing). I doubt it though. You seem dumb.You asked about other drugs the dead people took in the study, so i pointed you to the table that listed the other drugs they took.Whats the issue?
>>25357120> Could be.How do you know that? Do you have evidence to suggest its a possibility? Or any argument at all taht it makes the measurement inaccurate?
>>25357120You are ignoring the comorbidity of how multiple police officers were strangling or choking him for nearly ten minutes.
>>25357120The second study here talks about pills>>25357130
>>25352494>>25352625I hate all american holidays and minorities because they somehow get exported to the rest of the world through your disgusting cultural tendrils. Suddenly they're running some fucking afroamerican theme on my websites for reading, alongside "pride month" of course, then it's some native american shit that doesn't even exist outside your fucking country. >>25352791>mean to blacks a hundred years ago so that means we have to coddle them and treat them like specialIt's even more retarded innit, since they can't even agree on who the afroamericans or blacks are. Step off the boat from Africa and now you're involved in a fight over whether you're black, because you ain't got dem culcha. The scar on every country that imports a huge chunk of immigrants and the inability to actually achieve that "melting pot" should be the biggest collection of red flags in recent history and yet we're all busy imitating the suicide civilizations.Books about this? Don't say Camp of the Saints.
>>25357041LOL
