for the lulz :3 xD

>>25360401
Imagine a colony of ants having boiling acid poured into their home, completely blindsided and terrified.

"Who would do this to us?" they exclaim, "What being could create something so powerful, and why would it ever use it on us?"

Eventually they conclude the being is testing them. There must be some purpose to it. The prospect of something so powerful, hurting them so callously and carelessly, is too terrifying to come to terms with. Purpose. Purpose. Purpose. There must be some purpose to all of this. Is it a test?

Maybe the acid is meant to make them stronger. Or cull the weak. Or make them fear the being. Maybe it's meant to make them appreciate the colony when there's NO acid. Or drive them to some distant land where acid will never pour? Perhaps the acid is retribution for some fault of the colony? Would learning to endure the acid make them virtuous?

They don't know, but they worship the being anyways. They pray to the being. They make sacrifices to the being. They build churches and make beautiful artifacts for the being, hoping their respect and appreciation for the being will cause it to take mercy on them, or even just see them, to just acknowledge their existence, just for one day, one hour, one minute, anything, any sort of reassurance, anything. A single message. Please?

None of it matters. They get boiling acid poured on them.

Again.
And again.
And again.

Because they're not being tested. There is no test. The acid is runoff from a nearby factory. Their suffering was just a byproduct of the production of some bizarre thing they could never even begin to comprehend. A toaster or a gyroscope or something.

And the ants will keep boiling alive forever.

>>25360401
For good boy points duh

>>25360443
The ants should learn to enjoy the little things in life and accept suffering

>>25360448
They should, yes, because that's all an ant can do.

>>25360449
What you said makes me happy and sad

>>25360450
Thanks. That's very sincere. I aspire to convey that feeling in everything I write.
May your acid boil lightly and your colony be pleasant, anon.

>>25360453
And i look forward to your work. Do post it on here sometime. I got all the time in the world these days.

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>>25360443
Nice
This reminds me of the book roadside picnic. The humans believed that the aliens, who landed on earth many years ago and then left shortly after, wanted something from them. Maybe the aliens left them a secret message? Maybe they will return again? But most likely the aliens just wanted to have a short break from their long journey. They never cared about us. But the humans are of course too self absorbed to believe that. They could never accept that they don't matter to the aliens.

>>25360401
The same lesson He taught Job: I do it because I can, now praise me

>>25360401
>what lesson could possibly be worth learning at the cost of so much misery?
To fear God. Fear of God is the beginning of the belief in Him.

>>25360401
because there is no god...
you ever thought about that ?
you fucking fagg !

>>25360401
Maybe the lesson is not to be such a whiny bitch and stop seeing everything as torture and pain.
Nietzsche was right about this fraud.

>>25360401
I don't think

There is no god, you are going to the same void from which you came. Everything in your life is worthless, from the exams you take and the job you work, to the relationships you have with your parents and those around you. You might feel a bit better knowing this will happen to every living being on earth, but even this discussion is meaningless. Time will move forward, and your life is infinitesimally short compared to the rest of the universe. You are a lost consciousness on a huge rock, drifting among many others toward an unknown destination. You will never be able to objectively know what you are or why you are here, all you can ever know is your own representation of reality. Just accept it. You can create illusions for yourself like finding love or making friends to bear the short time you are alive, but keep in mind that these are only illusions and deep down, existence is suffering

>>25360534
>objectively
lmaoing at you in subjectivity

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>>25360401
Nobody knows. Now go do something else.

>>25360499
You can't be fully certain about that. I'd love to see narcissus atheistfags burn in hell forever but it's not a 100% guarantee.

>>25360500
Nietz was more deluded than Schope.

>>25360534
Almost completely correct, but what comes after death is not known.

>>25360500
>bad things are good actually
we're discussing God, meaning of life and things like that. you need to do better than semantics.

>>25360443
You sound jewish. Wake me up when an ant is capable of consciousness.

>>25360534
>There is no god
Atheshit cope.

>>25360401
I mean , speaking for me I have no complaints.

but yea , I do wonder about other people , asuming you are not a bot OP , how would you steelman the position that the meaning and porpuse of life is wisdom , specially since your wisdom currently is telling you its retarded.

its wierd , because most people are kind of bipolar about it , people will claim their life is fundamentally cosmicly a mistake that destroys god by just how bad it is , but they will def run that back away if you ever to bost about past people having a better life than them.
in theory a lot of people like you , the we you are talking about , should be envios of like millions even billions of people though history , but you don't allow you that emotion to exist.

this isn't necessarily a counter argument against the gnostic anon per say , I just find it wierd.

>>25360534
>There is no god, you are going to the same void from which you came.
that doesn't seem scientific.

>>25360443
Undeveloped nihilism is surely the dumbest philosophy. Every great nihilist used pessimism as a starting point to build a new philosophy, not a conclusion that nothing matters.

>>25360443
Ants arent capable of anything like those kinds of thoughts
>>25360401
Grandma ate the apple she wasn't supposed to.

If you're retarded and that isn't enough: I suspect there isn't a way to grow the kind of beings who would deserve something like the glory of a perfected universe without this. As for why God would grow us, I don't know. The apple thing is more meaningful.

>>25360443
Ruined the joke by not having the acid just be orange, mango, or grapefruit juice, which is delicious and good for both factory workers and ants, because it's liquid fruit when you don't fuck the juice up with extra sugar.

Stay technochurch longer, lurk more, you can still make it, I guess.

>>25360600
Fpbp

>>25361701
Ants practice agriculture, oh you unknowing assumer.

>>25360443
The acid and the pain gave the ants meaning. Whatever you think the cause of pain is, that's its purpose.

>>25360401
Read the Book of Job.

>>25361709
So do machines, what's your point?

>>25360401
Just read the Holy Bible or your applicable prayer book, go to Church or your applicable House of Prayer, pray, and start from there. Did you forget about God or something? God didn't forget you, I pray.

i don't understand why its that bad

>>25360496
Christcucks are cancer.

>>25360603
What a fag kys

>>25361897
t. Brazilian

>>25360401
Nobody knows, but if life really is part of a cycle of rebirth, where consciousness is recycled like the cells to dirt and organisms and back again, then we are experiencing everything multiple lives, then everything both big and small we do now will affect us in the future, for as long as life exists on this planet, until the big crunch and the next big bang, for eternity.

Suffering reveals the limitations of the self to the self, thereby inviting the self into a discovery of what is Infinitely Beyond.

There is nothing inherently evil about suffering, we just inherently dislike it. Besides, Heaven is so glorious that a single instant in Heaven is well worth an eternity of torment, let alone a human lifespan which is punctuated by pleasantries and joys almost as often as it is disturbed by pains and discomforts. "The sorrows of this world are as nothing compared to the Glory to be revealed in us" said St. Paul. I'm not a Christian but St.Paul was entirely correct here. This "problem of evil" simply did not bother people in previous epochs of humanity where faith actually existed. Not the weak, sickly fideistic, existentialist "faith" of the "leap" variety, but true, sincere, intellectual conviction in the reality of God and Eternity.

what if God is a baby God and we're in a tv world? you think he would change his name?

>>25360496
Job is an allegory for the faithful or spiritual life. The final act where he is restored to his family/property/prosperity represents Heaven or the divine restoration of the universe in eternity. It is not an allegory about God's wrath being arbitrary. The "have you seen my Leviathan" discourse represents the Infinite Unseen when compared with a distraught man's lamentations-- they are pithy nothing against the Infinitely Vast forces surrounding reality. The friends of Job represent the worldly pseudo-religiosity of early Rabbinic Judaism as compared with the earnest seeking of God (which undoubtedly still survives in Judaism down to the present, albeit in minority, as in all religions as they age and become Pharisaic)

>>25360534
According to whom?

>>25362102
According to someone that prioritizes watching porn every day and blame all his problems on his parents/society. Isn't it obvious?

>>25362104
Embarrassing amount of projection. Is every single christian mentally and socially stunted? Every last one of them?

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>>25360441
/thread

>>25362132
Saying "that's projection" is literally equivalent to saying "I'm rubber you're glue whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!".

I'm not a Christian, but is every atheist stuck in a perpetual state of childhood in which life is a series of sometimes-conflicting desires and attempts to satisfy them?

Are you like a ping pong ball in human form? Do you ever get tired of just bouncing off of whatever surface you collide with at a proportional speed and angle?

Go look in the mirror and say "I do not watch pornography" 100 times and see if you feel dirty and dishonest or clean and proud.

>>25360401
As a test or punishment, the real life starts after death. People who are addicted to evil habits may feel extra bad after they felt extra good. People who aren't grateful, greedy and not compassionate might FEEL worse than they should. That being said this person in op and other crybabies suffer less than average people, noone suffers beyond their capacity and EVERYONE has moments of joy relaxation and relief. People who claim their lives are consistently hard are lying just like people who claim they're always happy and successful. Humans need purpose and Islam is there to help you if you want to help yourself.

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>>25360443
>The prospect of something so powerful, hurting them so callously and carelessly, is too terrifying to come to terms with.
and should they learn it's even more horrifying for nothing to be there and it all being random? do they go back to thinking it's needless cruelty, like settling for a (You) insulting you than being ignored?

>>25360443
I think the ants are supposed to avoid the acid.

>>25360401
Well if there's something after this then the pain probably isn't worth holding onto

>>25362132
No, you’re saying all of this doesn’t matter. I’m asking according to whom?

I’m a fagbostic but without god the universe is effectively a big rock, why should I care about the rocks opinion on my life?

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>>25360443
it never ceases to amaze me that nihilists have no problem conceiving of cosmic horrors that are simply so far beyond our comprehension we could never grasp them with our limited perspective

yet no on will ever even entertain the idea of cosmic wonders, cosmic delights, so far beyond our comprehension that we could never grasp them with our current perspective

I am the cause of all my pain. Not G*d.

>>25363063
I hope you are right. But I know why I think the way I do, I extrapolate from what I have myself experience and what I know exists.
I'm a normal middle class guy, and yet the worst suffering I experienced was much worse than the best moments were good. Even something like breaking your arm is much more intense than e.g. an orgasm. Now just imagine being in one of those cartel torture videos.
I'm not talking about frequency here, but just intensity.

>>25360401
The earth is fallen due to the original sin, we wanted to play God and God became distant to us. Read Job, a book written before Moses he cries out for a mediator before the fidst covenant was even founded, before rabbis realised we needed a messiah and Jesus. The cosmology we find ourselves in require someone to be both with God and with Us and share our suffering, for pain to have any meaning

>>25363094
>the worst suffering I experienced was much worse than the best moments were good

yet you haven't killed yourself, curious!

>>25360401
because God wants you to have free will. you can only form your own free will when there is pain to resist. if existence only ever had pleasure and no pain, you would not have free will. in a sense, you would not exist. pain is a temporary condition for you to form your own free will, and therefore your own existence.

>>25363765
I will never understand why Christians have such a difficult time understanding that God wills for human beings to suffer, including children, and including horrible and wretched things.

Isn't it very clear? Or do you suspect there is some region of Reality that God has lost control of? Have tumors, bacteria, earthquakes and knavish human beings somehow escaped his control or what? Do you think God lost control of His own creation?

It just boggles my mind. I understand it's an uncomfortable fact but your continuous refusal to acknowledge God in fact made Satan and permits him to be Satan leads so many Christians to completely fold when they encounter the unmitigated evil of this world and cannot comprehend how Jesus the Christ, the Lamb, would allow for such events.

If I'm not mistaken this very issue is the main reason for Christianity's current decline. It doesn't account for suffering, it doesn't teach people how to endure suffering or accept suffering,and it just sweeps all the dead babies with cancer under the rug out of embarrassment. How could such a religion suffice for a terrible life, when many lives are nowadays terrible? It can't. Christianity has allowed itself to be reduced to a middle class religion based on sentimentality and observation of the ancient holy days whose meaning have been forgotten.

>>25363794
I have no idea what you are talking about, I just have my own philosophy about God and suffering based on me perceiving consciousness

>>25363809
Oh I see, there are several Christian posters in this thread and the justification of evil by free will is an extremely common argument in Christian discourses. So my question should not have been posed to you per se, pardon me.

I do think the question is a good one and would appreciate any Christians that would like to respond to it.

>>25363794
>Isn't it very clear? Or do you suspect there is some region of Reality that God has lost control of?
It is very clear to me that this is Lucifer's planet. That some fundamental decision was made in the ancient past to break with God and explore the universe on our own, no matter the consequences. God is not a domineering patriarch, but the good father who patiently waits for the return of his wayward sons. What is 100,000 years of torment to an eternal? A mosquito bite. Nothing. In time, those who maintained their connection to God, who never lost sight of the guiding light of Christ, will be delivered back into grace and received with open arms.

>>25363878
It's a simple question. Is Satan under the control of God or not?

>>25363883
Satan is allowed to exist. There is no leash, no mitigating factor for what occurs in darkness. God will not step in and stop what has been chosen freely by his lost children. Seek salvation and it will be given to you, even in this life. Despair, lose faith, and you may join the legions of the damned.

>>25360401
>Boohoo, my oneitis didn't suck my dick
Grow up.

>>25363896
I'm gonna give you an Amen because you encouraged me to seek salvation. Thank you for your kind words of guidance. I guess it is not so important how one conceives of Satan. For me I never really could comprehend evil until I became comfortable with the idea of God creating evil and suffering. I think He does it to help us outgrow ourselves, to force us to seek something beyond the self, beyond death. It's not to be cruel, it's just the way it has to be,there's no learning or journeying without suffering. May your faith grow strong through all your difficulties in life and may you know the Peace of your Lord in the Hereafter.

I'm Muslim by the way.

>>25363903
Thank you, brother. Bless you.
>I'm Muslim by the way.
Christ is for everyone.

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>>25360401
>answers absolutely everything and makes modern philosophy redundant + laughable

>>25364214
>Coomaraswamy
Extremely based

The notion that mortal life is some process of self-discovery is new age nonsense. The Christian view is that we are in an unnaturally trapped in a fallen world and in very serious danger. God has temporarily allowed the Devil to reign here, but He will crush him soon enough.

>>25361771
My points are at ends of my sentences and on my i's.

>>25364214
The perennial tradition is Christianity, perennialism is just the spiritual version of third worldism; spiteful drivel designed to get Westerners to hate their superior tradition and kiss the feet of Hindoos. If you take this filth to its logical conclusion you'll die as an opium-addicted retard larping as a Bedouin in Egypt.

Gloomyness: The Thread. Relax, machineposters, the Sun's out and about.