>>25362601
Burgess writing about disaffected youth subcultures turning to crime and union overreach looked extremely prescient by the 1970s where inner cities became hellholes and union overreach had killed off industry profitability in his country. Burgess was a writer of his time and all its problems. Old people and corporations controlling domestic military death squads, much less relevant.

>>25362631
Wew well at least the British working class are dirt poor again and profits are back up. But I still think blaming rock and roll for soldiers raping your wife especially with documentaries of the era like Winter Soldier showing soldiers are indoctrinated to be psychopaths, is a bit dubious.

>>25362644
Could you quote the part where he blames rock and roll for me? I can't remember it. I'm assuming you're referring to Clockwork Orange, and my interpretation, though I read it a while ago, was that the society itself was corrupt, meaning Alex was, in some sense, himself a victim, and it worked as a way for Burgess to reconcile his Christianity with the hatred for the men who raped his wife, viewing them as victims of corrupt systems. It's disheartening to learn that the book is just him saying rock and roll is bad.

>>25362650
No I was joking, Alex listens to classical, I meant that as Burgess suggesting youthfulness is dangerous when the elderly were drafting young men against their will to fight in Vietnam. I also think the Bolshevik slang is cheesy

>>25362657
Untempered youthfulness is dangerous. The book suggests the cruelty of the youth in Clockwork Orange are because of the failings of the elders and the institutions which the youthful later become part of.

>>25362657
Also the whole scenario reminds me of Lord of the Flies contrasted with the actual historical boys marooned who cooperated and helped each other. This idea of older people that because youth are disorderly and graffiti, that they are a dangerous element that has to be closely subjugated by the morally wise when it seems by then obvious that the aged more often learned to be callous than more compassionate

>>25362668
>>25362669

>>25362669
Are you suggesting, then, that youth are, in some sense, morally superior to the older who are corrupted by society, who project their own corruption onto youth? I don't agree that's what Burgess is doing. Arguably it's just young people who are more impressionable to corruption. People in their 40s have a resistance to the brainrot of TikTok that people in their 20s don't for example. If there is evil, it will usually be most overtly expressed through the young.

>>25362691
I don't agree. Most young people for example would never bomb a girls' school or support it, whereas the elderly will support it or not really see it as a big deal if their party does it.

>>25362759
If you're referring to the incident during the Iran conflict, the bombing of the girl's school was an accident. Are you suggesting young people wouldn't support bombing an enemy at all or that young people wouldn't make a mistake while bombing their enemy? I think I see where you're coming from. You have a romantic idea of youth so you're misinterpreting Burgess as having a pessimistic one which isn't true. Young people are no better or worse morally than their elders, but elder people will have made their ethical choices in life that have determined whether they're good or bad actually, not just theoretically. The old people who support bombing enemies and accidentally bomb girls' schools were young once too. To be honest, I find people who romanticize the purity of youth tend to be paedophiles, so you're seeming very sus rn fr fr.

>>25362764
Bombing enemies here means "killing innocent people". This isn't a new phenomenon either. This bloodlust is almost always spearheaded by the elderly

I find people who romanctize murdering children to be pedophiles desu

>>25362795
That's rich, considering you love pedophiles. If you were against pedophiles you be standing with Trump

>>25362795
Kids also fight. Adults just fight with bigger weapons, and sometimes those bigger weapons involve the deaths of noncombatants. The old people you're demonizing were once young, and young people are not ethically superior. Stop being retarded.

>>25362813
I am not demonizing anyone, you are. I am questioning this assumption that the youth are the source of evil and danger, which you support, and the boomers are the source of compassion and wisdom because they watch tv instead of tiktok. I have observed that as people become older their compassion doesn't augment, it becomes more and more numb and fatigued

>>25362601
This guy's pretty cool. Go watch his interviews he's a good fella.

>>25362764
>the bombing of the girl's school was an accident

Imagine if a girls school in Israel got bombed 'on accident', they would use that to justify all their acts for the next 50 years. And they would be right to.

>>25362826
At no point did I say the youth are a greater source of danger, and throughout, I argued against the premise that Burgess suggested that in Clockwork Orange. You've not read what I wrote properly. Tiktok has led to brainrot, but the brainrot expresses itself through the youth while TikTok was invented by older people.

>>25362764
young people do not consider iran to be an enemy at all. why would they?

>>25362862
>At no point did I say the youth are a greater source of danger,

>>25362691
>If there is evil, it will usually be most overtly expressed through the young

>TikTok was invented by older people.

But the content creators are young. It certainly is no worse than tv but it is considered much more dangerous because the content creators are young. That is why a bill was passed against it, because it was seen as making youngsters oppose elderly bloodlust in Gaza

>>25362879
TikTok is worse and anyone who’s dealt with children who use it regularly can vouch for that. You think young people are unfairly scapegoated, but you’re just wrong. There’s more media presenting kids as oppressed powerless do-gooders, basically your view, especially stuff from a left wing perspective. And the stuff you’ve mentioned, Clockwork Orange and Lord of Flies (which ends with the recognition the British Empire was as bad / worse than the savagery of the kids, the implication that their behaviour is just a product of the values they were raised with) doesn’t even portray young people in the way you’re suggesting. The only people who would align with what you’re saying are random boomers on Facebook. You seem like you’re airing some grievance because a boomer called you a retard, but that has nothing to do with Burgess or the point he was making.

>>25362910
>TikTok is worse

No it's not. The only thing worse about TikTok is that it is suited to phones. The content is not worse than TV

>The only people who would align with what you’re saying are random boomers on Facebook

No, you are an example of what I am talking about. As I said the elderly write off the massacre of school girls as either good, or not a big deal. You went with the latter route, trivializing it as an accident committed when others were being targeted for unprovoked killing

>>25362948
Me on 4chan isn’t much different from some random boomer on Facebook, tbqh, and that’s what I’m suggesting: that’s what you’re reacting to, not whatever point you think you’re making. No, I don’t care about the school girls blown up, but I also didn’t care when I was a child watching the Twin Towers get hit. You’re a fag with a faggot romantic view of kids so you’ve created a strawman who demonises kids to argue against. Your view is more common than the view of Facebook boomers who complain about young people, and in fact, many boomers grew up with glorification of youth so probably agree with you.

>>25362964
Boomers WERE the youth when Burgess was writing. Burgess ascribing soldiers being psychopathic to the youth being dangerous when the elderly don't keep them in check. My counter to that is soldiers are psychopathic because they're trained to carrying out killing for the elderly.

Boomers DID have more of a conscience in their youth. They did have more compassion. And then as they grew older and accumulated wealth and developed a tolerance for atrocities, they became the very callousness they once protested and the perpetuators of the same evil. They didn't grow into more compassion and Burgess suggests as a natural arc, they grew numb and selfish

>>25362969
>My counter to that is soldiers are psychopathic because they're trained to carrying out killing for the elderly.
That is Burgess point, you spastic.

>>25362973
No it isn't

>>25362601
Did she like it?

>>25363052
Alex is presented very sympathetically, and it’s the institutions around him that crush the better part of his nature, such as his appreciation of classical music. The implication is that the society (the elders) are bringing out the worst in them. Sorry that you can’t read very well but you probably had bad teachers and too much social media.

>>25363088
Alex is not violent because elders trained him to kill people for them, he is violent because he is a kid with no direction from elders. Elders then incorrectly try to rehabilitate him without doing their job of directing him and raising him. You are a fucking idiot

>>25363097
The institutions are shown to be just as violent if not more than he and his friends and they easily absorb and assimilate Alex and his friends into the violent order when they get older. Learn to read.

>>25363127
The institutions was made at gault for never raising them. Not for actually turning them violent, they were violent by default because they had no elderly guidance

>>25363299
Yeah. Burgess was a Catholic and it’s a traditional Catholic view: humanity is a fallen species unless it receives the grace and guidance of God. What are you disagreeing with? Young people are innately good? Lmfao

>The institutions was made at gault for never raising them
This is also wrong. The institutions in the form of school / teachers and the attempt to rehabilitate are shown to make things worse / be part of the problem.

>>25363326
Is it a Catholic belief that people mature into compassion with age? Stupid

>>25363337
No and that view isn’t illustrated in Clockwork Orange at all. Now answer: are you suggesting children are innately good or just naturally in some way morally superior?