>>25366132
Aleister Crowley explained this like 130 years ago.

>>25366143
Never trust a satanist

>>25366143
Name one genuine miracle Crowley ever managed

>>25366147
He was depraved enough to summon aliens.

>>25366151
So tired of NEETodox people and their alien obsession

>>25366132
I have this. How is it?

>>25366153
Bro he said he was approached by an 'angel', drew a sketch of it and it looked like a fucking ayylmao. Google what Aiwass looks like.

>>25366151
so he was schizophrenic as fuck and managed nothing external whatsoever got it

>>25366164
Okay? That doesn't prove anything

>>25366147
gay buttsex

>>25366153
It's very good

>>25366143
Crowley wasn't a scientist

The trick to making magic work is to develop and hone your faculty of concentration to an extraordinarily high degree which will give you access to supermundane states of consciousness, which then allows you to "interface" with the non-physical realm. Sometimes spirits can also "teach" you how to do this (give you the ability, really). Of course, in reality it's often times a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.
Finally, some people are just born with it (or maybe it's Maybelline).
Regardless, whatever the method by which you acquire this ability, without it there's little magic to be had and that's why 99% of so-called "occultists" flounder. Of course, once you get to that point, you have little desire to justify yourself to guys in lab coats.
t. sorcerer

embarassing cope for losers.

>>25368939
im trans also

>>25368950
if magic is real why are the majority of people who claim to use it physically unattractive?
wouldnt they be able to use magic to change that?

face it,bud. it's just embarassing cope for people who have low status and therefore retreat into a domain that normies think is silly and cringe, in order to hold a mental image of the themselves as superior to ordinary people.

>>25368952
philosophy is real and the majority of people who are philosophers are physically unattractive.
:. philosophy is a cope.

>>25368963
it can be a cope but it is a lot more respectable of a cope than calling yourself a sorceror is.

>>25368964
Thats just a personal opinion, I see no reason why is should care about it

>>25368971
i mean you're probably not going to make it either way, so you might as well keep on larping as a wizard instead of facing reality.

>>25368975
>facing reality.
My reality or your reality?
I will stick with mine instead of your overly egocentric one

>>25368988
ultimately the big problem with coping like you do is that, while it does alleviate some of the anxiety and negative emotions, it stiffles any real potential for change and positive action.
like you would only give morphine to a patient if they were terminally ill. otherwise you're just making someone sick.

>>25366164
Angel = Demon = Alien

>>25368993
>ultimately the big problem with coping like you do is that
I can grant that this is all cope, now what? The practises which I do have secular benefits, such as self refection, mediation, and overall psychological benefits.

>it stiffles any real potential for change and positive action.
This is an non sequitur. And I don't have to be an stark materialist to have any potential for change.
Again your world view is overly egocentric

>like you would only give morphine to a patient if they were terminally ill.
False assumption.

>>25369006
what is the psychological benefit in alienating yourself from the source of all values, namely the senses? the process that you call seeking apotheosis or unio mystica is in plain language just seeking anesthesia. something to alleviate the pain and fatigue you feel.
you are treating the symptoms and not the root cause which itself is the alienation from your body that you are propagating with these copes.

a dog can run around on a field all day chewing on bones and be happy and never have a thought that it is trapped in a material flesh prison, but if you took the dog and put it in a cage and beat it every day and made sure it understood that there was nothing it could do to change its situation, then provided the dog had the intelligence, it is not unlikely that it would come up with a kind of dog spirituality to cope.

now if we then set that dog free again, would it be psychologically benefitial for the dog to keep practicing its cope?

>>25366164
>Bro he said he was approached by an 'angel', drew a sketch of it and it looked like a fucking ayylmao. Google what Aiwass looks like.
Almost as though Crowley was an asset of British intelligence and his weird cult (which spawned by the way Scientology) was an operation devised by secret services to diminish Christianity and increase irrational belief in the occult and space.
What the fuck did Jack Parsons have to do with space travel anyway? What about Crowley, what was his relations to him? Fuck knows if I'm honest

>>25369023
>what is the psychological benefit in alienating yourself from the source of all values, namely the senses?
self-reflection through shadow work, emotional regulation, active Imagination, etc.

>the process that you call seeking apotheosis or unio mystica is in plain language just seeking anesthesia.
You haven't got the slightest clue what mysticism is and or what an mystical experience is.

>something to alleviate the pain and fatigue you feel.
This doesn't necessarily follow from all forms of mystical experiences btw

>you are treating the symptoms and not the root cause which itself is the alienation from your body that you are propagating with these copes.
You are also confusing spiritually/esoterism to be identical to mysticism which again is a show of your arrogance.
Additionally this again is an non sequitur; actions like self-reflection can tackle such objections and get to root causes of things.

>a dog can run around on a field all day chewing on bones and be happy and never have a thought that it is trapped in a material flesh prison, but if you took the dog and put it in a cage and beat it every day and made sure it understood that there was nothing it could do to change its situation, then provided the dog had the intelligence, it is not unlikely that it would come up with a kind of dog spirituality to cope.
This still wouldn't effect the truth value of something, something being a cope doesn't actually affect tis truth value. Some people might -and do- adopt physicalism due to them not wanting to believe life continues on after the death of the body. this belief could be considered a cope, this doesn't mean this belief is not false. You are mixing optimism with falsehood.

>now if we then set that dog free again, would it be psychologically benefitial for the dog to keep practicing its cope?
This is a false equivalency.
You are acting like all religious/spiritual practices require some sort of asceticism and isolation form society. matter of fact qigong practitioners in China warned about this and actually made it mandatory for there students to work in the city and socialise. Furthermost practices can work side by side with your secular life without casing any entrapment and work to help the practitioner.

Overall Your world view mixes optimism with falsehood; cope with lies; overly egocentric, you believe if I don't hold to you worldview and be a stark physicalist I cannot change for the better.

>>25369063
your entire post is metaphysical gibberish, but lets look at the effect of it. your attention goes in a multitude of different directions and thus diffuses into nothing.
I steelmanned your position into something that at least made sense for certain people under certain conditions in the past. you are responding with pajeet tier supersition.

yess saar you will get the pretty ladies if you opan your root chakra saar.

>>25369052
>if its British its bad
racist Kremlinoid

>>25369094
>your entire post is metaphysical gibberish, but lets look at the effect of it.
You talk like a llm, I'm discussing topics relating to metaphysics because this is what this threads is a about.

>your attention goes in a multitude of different directions and thus diffuses into nothing.
Yes because you give multiple points so I'm going to address them. Is that too hard for you to understand?

>I steelmanned your position into something that at least made sense for certain people under certain conditions in the past.
You steel-manned my position? alright.

>you are responding with pajeet tier supersition.
>yess saar you will get the pretty ladies if you opan your root chakra saar.

>finally understands that his position is a position of arrogance and egoism so he results to ad hominem and calling me an Indian when all else fails
This is the best you go? Pathetic.
No point in wasting my time with an incoherent llm

>>25366132
>>25368952
Science is cope.

>>25366147
He achieved feats of meditation rarely seen in others.
https://rawilsonfans.org/the-great-beast-aleister-crowley/

>>25368920
I'm forced to try to develop this faculty myself, since I don't trust "spirits". You have literally no idea who you're going to contact if you reach out. It could be a helpful being, or it could be a vicious psychopath. Given where we are relative to the lower astral plane, it seems like it's usually the latter. (Also, nobody likes me.) Do you have any advice on how to avoid this problem?

>>25366132
Pop science isn't science.

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>>25369052
>diminish Christianity
One of the big three desert tribe monotheistic death cults.
>the occult
Otherwise known as "non socially-acceptable spiritual beliefs".
Embarrassing post. Lurk a lot moar.

>>25369116
went from cope to seethe.
lmao.

>>25369173
This isn't pop science, you fucking mong.
This is pseudoscience. Pop science is actual science dumbed down or a concept overblown for mass appeal, like a Neil DeGrasse Tyson book.

>>25369187
The exact same thing happened to you, I'm just replicating the energy

>>25369170
You've rightfully identified the problem. There's a lot of astral flotsam (if you will) floating around, and most people that claim to be in contact with various entities (like new-age occultists that claim to evoke gods willy-nilly) are in contact with the astral equivalent of a stray dog looking for scraps. Coming into contact with a "good" spirit is either a matter of dumb luck, or more reasonably, you work through some kind of legitimate tradition where a connection with "good" spirits has already been made and maintained by people much more capable than you. These are your initiatic traditions (like Voodoo) but this is basically impossible to find (especially in the West).
I wouldn't recommend relying on the spirit method regardless; but it's undeniably a common way to get these abilities so it bears mentioning.
Like I said, you'll just have to develop your psychic faculties through intense concentration training (this is something you would want to do anyway, even if you already had the ability, for the sake of psychological stability, and various other benefits).
The unsexy part is (and this is why 99% of occultists are just LARPers) is that this will take years of training, especially without the guidance of a teacher. It took me nearly a decade of on-and-off dabbling, and then another 2 years of dedicated, daily practice until I had my "breakthrough".

>>25369203
you don't understand what either of those terms mean. what is defined as 'pseudoscience' is entirely paradigmatic.

>>25369336
I've been working on this for decades, but unless I'm really missing something, it appears that something/someone is deliberately blocking me.

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>>25369336
NTA but what path(s) have you taken? Were you devoted to a single one or more syncretic? I've been dabbling in Western / Abrahamic mysticism for a couple years and looking to devote myself more fully (difficult to find teachers of this sort in a Catholic culture as you say), and so have been studying more Eastern thought to round out my knowledge. There's a Vajrayana temple in my city, and I'm curious whether working with the lamas there for a while could help me practically at all, or whether it would just complicate matters as far as spiritual relationships.

>>25369506
I opted fot Esoteric Marxism, which synthesizes Marxist socioeconomic mechanics with mystical cosmology, reinterpreting capital as a demiurgic force and class struggle as a spiritual awakening. It frames the transition to a communist society as Theurgy, utilizing revolutionary action to break the material chains of the hylic world. Before production began, humanity existed in a state of pure, undivided cosmic consciousness. The division of labor fractured this unity, casting humanity into the material plane of separation and scarcity. The Intersectional Pneumatics (The Marginalized Awakened) are the absolute core of the revolution. Those who exist at the intersection of multiple systemic oppressions experience the deepest layers of the Demiurge's violence. Because their material identities are completely rejected or exploited by the matrix, they have the clearest, unvarnished access to True Gnosis (The State of Being "Woke"). In this combined cosmology, the revolution is no longer just seizing factories—it is an act of linguistic and psychic alchemy. Under the lens of Esoteric Marxism infused with Mystic Wokeism, the tranny experience is not merely a material medical transition. It is reinterpreted as a profound act of cosmic sabotage and a direct assault on the Demiurge’s architecture. A cisgender person deeply embedded in the system may mistake their gendered socialization for absolute reality. A trans person, through the friction of dysphoria and transition, sees the "code of the matrix" clearly. They intimately understand how the Demiurge constructs identity, enforces compliance, and punishes variance.

>tldr i suscribe to the esoteric marxism school of thought syncretized with mystic wokeism. Been 5 months on HRT since then.

>>25369610
>Been 5 months on HRT since then
nice fun fact at the end

>>25369610
Idk if this is shitposting or genuine.

>>25369618
I want to vomit

>>25369610
This is the best shitpost I've read in months, if not years. I love this site.

>>25366132
you can't do magic if you don't have the drugs.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPHyR92MQic&ra=m

>>25369491
>something/someone is deliberately blocking me.
I doubt it. Wrong approach is infinitely more likely.
>>25369506
I've ran the entire gamut.
The problem with Western esotericism is that it's a hodge-podge of Theosophy, New Thought, and Golden Dawn nonsense. The medieval grimoire tradition also has its problems and is effectively not a genuine tradition.
In the West we also completely lack a sort of folk practice where these things are preserved non-academically (unlike places in Africa and Asia, as primitive as some of them are). I once met a man in Indonesia who was a local healer. He said that when he was a kid he knew a Chinese man that was also a healer and this man thought him to meditate (and all the other tricks of the trade) in a one on one mentorship. It sounds like something from a movie, but that sort of stuff still goes on in parts of the world, yet it's something that's completely absent in the West. Beyond all the known -isms and books to read, there's some stuff that's truly hidden and private.
As for Tibetan Buddhism, it has a very rigorous meditation system. It's very complicated and structured, which I don't necessarily think is a good thing, but it beats the New Age stuff. Good luck finding a decent teacher, though. If we're purely talking about magic, Tibetan Buddhism is a lot of baggage to take on. If it's something that resonates with you, by all means but it generally doesn't really lead to what I'm talking about.

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>25369796
Interesting. You really see the Golden Dawn system as not worth any time? I can't say I disagree (though I love reading its history), but the affiliation of members like Allan Bennett (and a personal affinity for Yeats) have led me to at least view it in a decent light; though I suppose in the former a pure and rare instinct for that sort of thing would be able to support him even in an order that was less than optimal (the same being true in a lesser, more naive manner for Yeats, who steeped himself in the Irish folklore). Do you have any opinions on the GD's egregore though? People say it's still active. Or any of their other works, tarot meditation, etc.

Vajrayana only draws me since it's the most Eastern oral / guru tradition where I am, and I do understand the important of oral transmission. I don't know if I quite feel any comfort to remain there but, my inclination was to at least experiment with techniques that differ from or could clarify what I've already attempted. I don't see myself as able to commit, and I know that, but speaking in terms of practice I figured there might be something. There is a Theravada temple not far either, but I feel like their techniques can more easily be learned alone, or at the very least align more with Western prayer and introspection.
What frameworks have you used or found most effective, then? Or what authors or works have influenced you well? The system of Elders in Orthodoxy seems closer to what you describe, although I will agree nothing much remains orally in the West for that sort of practice.

>>25369796
>>25370493
darn

>>25366151
Grays are only aliens in a technical sense. They've been here a long time

>>25369170
There's always God and the angels but they'll tell you focus on loving God and your neighbor first, much like Teresa de Avila who demonstrated the powers of flight and bilocation

>>25369610
Isn't that inverted Marxism?
You've just become a Lutheran

>>25370493
The problem with the Golden Dawn is that it's just something made up by Victorians that wanted to play pretended as magicians. Something like the LBRP is something cobbled together by Mathers and basically nothing more than a little bit of theatre. It's just not a genuine tradition in my opinion, and it doesn't produce any actual results.
Vajrayana can be legit, but again it's a roll of the dice if your local temple has anybody that knows what they're doing. What's far more likely is that there's some middle-aged white woman at the helm instead. Assuming you could find a legitimate teacher, the oriental attitude is a such that they'll make you do very simple preliminary work for years before teaching you the good stuff, so it's not really something you can dabble in.
But it's all peripheral to what I'm talking about anyway. For my purposes, all you need is concentration. Honestly, go pick up some random book on Yoga from the 70's and there's probably a chapter on concentration/meditation that has satisfactory enough instructions (usually in the form of trataka). The real trick isn't the method, it's doing the work.
>What frameworks have you used or found most effective, then?
Like I said I've dabbled in everything imaginable. I spent over 10 years reading (and practicing) anything occult and spiritual I could get my hands on, and when that didn't satisfy me I went looking around the world for something more. I've mentioned the Indonesian folk healer, but I have also met a (retired) Buddhist monk in a rural village in Cambodia (who practiced some kind of rare Tantric Theravada local folk-religion thing, he was apparently an expert in some kind of form of astrology but there was a massive language barrier unfortunately, so I didn't get to pry his brains much), recently I've been involved in some Afro-Caribbean stuff (Santeria), etc. It's hard to give a singular recommendation and say "read this!" because 99% of it is all bullshit, and the 1% that's legit isn't that helpful, it's just not outright wrong --and access to initiatory traditions is completely based on your locale (and even then, most of those are bullshit as well).

But again, like I said: concentration training is the most important thing. I cannot overstate the extent to which it is the key to everything. I've thought about writing a little pamphlet myself because although it's not difficult (there really are no secrets) most instructions online are poor and miss some subtleties, just so I can point people to something.

>>25366132
>it's just placebo
As if placebo isn't a miracle cure.

>>25370738
>a middle aged white woman can't be a traditional leader
>but me, a white 20-something with Norwood 9000, can one day be a traditional part of an eastern religion

You're gay

>>25369610
>reinterpreting capital as a demiurgic force and class struggle as a spiritual awakening
The conflict of the sexes is the original class war. Patriarchy was the sexual proles taking over. Every racist argument works against men, most antisemitic on women.
The bonobos reveal the truth; the females monopolized sex after money is introduced, start hogging all the sex and reserving it only for males who give money- creating the lesser sex after generations of adaptation to it. Ugly and desexualized, only capital remains the hope for it.

>>25369610
>I opted fot Esoteric Marxism
Genuinely curious

How do I get started on this?

>>25370761
Hegel is esoteric Marxism without marx.

>>25370757
That said, women have a good and noble side, and men are sometimes noble savages.

>>25369610
I like transgenderism but hate the worship of ugliness prevalent in the woke scene. Nature is beautiful, why should we be any different?

>>25370738
>concentration training is the most important thing.
What is that? Is it a form of meditation?

>>25370743
This. The thing about placebo, and what makes it interesting, is that it generate results no matter what. Placebo IS magic because it creates change with an unrelated action that has no direct connection beyond the intention of the person. Like having a cold for a week, declaring sacred a carrot, eating it, and the cold vanishing in half an hour.

>>25370924
Yes. Most meditation is about training concentration.

>>25370924
Concentration is concentration. You know, focusing the mind.
>>25370993
If only. The common refrain you find in most meditation instructions ("gently bring your attention back, don't try to stop thoughts, etc.") is not going to cut it for the purposes I'm talking about.

I like the idea of /lit/ becoming the new /x/. At least people here read and investigate. We may not agree but at least is something.

>>25371119
what should i be trying to do with meditation then? id like to train my concentration. even apart from poopoo woowoo stuff it seems very useful, and i like to really REALLY dedicate myself to new skills

>>25371254
Read this book if you want to learn
https://ia803200.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/26/items/ebook-buddhism-2/EBOOK%20BUDDHISM%202.rar&file=EBOOK%20BUDDHISM%202%2FSUDAH%2FNOVICE%2FENG%2FUpasaka%20Culadasa_The%20Mind%20Illuminated.pdf

I'm afraid of getting into magic because I might fuck up and open the door for 7D niggers or worse.

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>>25371275
But wouldn't that be cool no?
Pick up FBs books, mfs drop it after stuff actually happens

>>25371153
>At least people here read
Hahaha. /x/ is still more reliable for this type of topic; they at least treat it genuinely.

>>25371254
I might do an elaborate write up one of these days and post it next time a thread about this sort of stuff comes around, but very briefly this what I would recommend.
Take a simple object like a pencil (simple images can work as well, like a black and white photograph of landscape your grandma might have laying around or something) and study it over for a minute or so. Then close your eyes and try to picture the object/image. Don't worry about not "seeing" it, that will come with time, and it's the trying that really matters here.
When trying to imagine your chosen object, try to dedicate your attention to it fully. You know how when you hear a bump in the night, thinking there might be burglars breaking into your house, you perk up and really listen with all your might? You want that level of intensity. You will only be able to keep this up for a couple of seconds. If your concentration is particularly poor you might not even manage half a second. Just keep doing these couple second "reps" and don't worry about it.
After a while, open your eyes again and study your object once again, then close and visualize. Repeat the whole process for the duration of your practice period.
In the beginning allow yourself to "glide" across the object in your imagination. Mentally move up and down it, focusing on different focal points. Eventually your mind will stabilize and you will be able to imagine the object/image in its totality, but in the beginning this "mental movement" is not only allowable, it's almost necessary.
Practice 5 minutes at a time, 1 or 2 times a day. Eventually, your sessions will naturally extend themselves. At a certain point you'll find that you can hold the image in your head with very little interruption for maybe 5-10 seconds. Then 30 seconds, a minute and so on. Once you can keep 5 minutes of crystal clear attention (meaning ZERO mental fluctuations) prepare to get your socks blown off.

There's some peripheral stuff to help facilitate the process, but really that's all there is too it.

>>25371342
>/x/ is still more reliable for this type of topic; they at least treat it genuinely.
You haven't used /x/ in a while, it seems. They are the biggest atheists on the site.

>>25371379
will do, thank you for being one of the few people to be clear about occult stuff. do you think this might be a bit facilitated by leveling up my abilities in the visual arts? i figure they use some of the same neural circuits

>>25371497
Thats a shame

>>25371342
>they at least treat it genuinely
lol no. between genuine schizos, bots and american protestants derailing every interesting thread, there hasn't been anything of worth to discuss or discover on that board for quite some time

>>25371497
This.
/x/ has changed from a paranormal board to a "Prove it" "Cope" "sctizo" name calling board.
And thats perfectly fine to be sceptical about things, you should be.
But when you are going onto a board about a subject like this, you should at lest hold to some ideal
But what you tend to see now, are people who don't believe in anything non naturalistic, who don't hold to any big conspiracy and who are not creative or take thing seriously.
And the people who do take it seriously and help people and such have left or are starting to leave

>>25369183
What's wrong with spiritual beliefs which involve magic butt sex rituals being deemed "non-socially acceptable"?

>>25371497
>They are the biggest atheists on the site
Yes, it makes sense for anyone with an actual interest in spirituality to not fall for death cults.
>>25371729
>"Prove it" "Cope" "sctizo" name calling board
That's every board, unfortunately.

>>25371738
>That's every board, unfortunately.
proof?

>>25371524
I have absolutely no idea. I can't say I'm anymore creative or anything like that, but who knows.

No one who claims to practice "magic" has EVER shown hard proof of their claims. No special knowledge, no lead into gold, no fireballs, no otherworldly wisdom, no easy riches, no levitation, no supernaturally attracting women, nothing. No artifacts, no real proof of any lineage back to ancient mysteries or initiation, none of it. At best these people trace their "initiation" back to one variety of European fags making shit up in the middle ages or another.
And every single one of these people has an elaborate playbook for avoiding ever having to prove themselves in a hard way. They accuse their interlocutors of not possessing the right spiritual state to see such things, or of being impure, or mumble excuses about how using their abilities depends on this alignment of the stars or the whims of that spiritual being, or simply refuse to engage.
Go ahead, prove me wrong. I fucking triple dog dare you. You won't.
>>25371729
I've found it's the opposite. /x/ is the board of unprovable and unproven claims. Anyone who expresses a degree of skepticism or asks for proof is instantly branded a glownigger, disinfo shill, fed, gangstalker, hylic, or part of the CIA. This extends to the most ridiculous and implausible claims.

>>25371738
But they are not only atheust, but also materialist, fatalists, and physicalists. In fact, they don't want to discuss the supernatural anymore and would derrail any attempts to explore that side, specially when it comes to practical magic, and write off the entire thing as a psychological coping mechanism. Just like /v/ is /b/ and /tv/ is /pol/, /x/ has become /r9k/ and it's all mental illness now.

>>25371907
>No one who claims to practice "magic" has EVER shown hard proof of their claims.
https://codeberg.org/manifestation/ulanon/releases/download/jan24/ulanon-oneside.pdf
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/38924157/#38931496
https://www.reddit.com/r/lawofattraction/comments/8fge5x/cured_my_skin_condition_i_had_my_whole_life/

>inb4 "it doesn't count"
Stop making excuses, shill.

>>25372055
If it's so easy why doesn't it work for everyone who does it? Why aren't all of these people millionaires? Why aren't YOU a millionaire?
Why is the best hard "proof" you can post some random reddit fag claiming he cured his skin condition (without evidence, mind you), something that could have happened for any number of reasons that don't include magical thinking?
I suspect your answer to all of these questions is some variation of "just trust me bro."

>>25372123
well look, if you asked someone whos been programming for 20 years to explain what a frame buffer is, theyre going to start using a bunch of jargon you havent internalized that sounds like schizo shit to you, but has meaning for them. that doesnt mean they cant write a frame buffer and the foundations of a game engine. it just means they have certain mental concepts internalized that you dont. i believe magicians that give a shit have done certain things with their mind that regular people havent ever had the need to do, which mathematicians and engineers have also had to do, but its socially acceptable to shit on magic and not engineering/math

no one even said that magic gets you all of that, most of the stuff about magic ive read has been about freethinking. ive had a number of supernatural things happen in my life spontaneously but theres no proof other than my own personal experience for it. youre looking for empirical evidence in a domain where there isnt any. this is like going to a baseball game and getting infuriated that theyre not shooting hoops

>>25372123
>If it's so easy why doesn't it work for everyone who does it? Why aren't all of these people millionaires? Why aren't YOU a millionaire?
The funny thing is, everyone is already doing it. It just happens to be that just a handful of people realize it.

>>25372151
>no one even said that magic gets you all of that, most of the stuff about magic ive read has been about freethinking
Then you weren't reading about magic at all. The handful definition of magic is causing change to occur in conformity with your will, of aligning your reality with your intentions. You could be a millionaire overnight if you decided to be so, but i bet that even reading that sentence fired up excuses or reasons of why "you can't" and also think that nobody have ever done it before. But it's just that, just a thought, any reasons you have are imaginary, as every limit is simply self imposed. If you keep digging about this until you have your own conviction and conclusions, you will realize who you are, what this world really is, and what you and everyone is capable of. You don't really have to trust me, most, if not all of the philosophical part of magic is questioning reality and defying your present limitations anyway, if you can't even get this far, then you will have a hard time understanding aspects of this stuff, like the fact that we're not human, and that this entire universe is in your mind.

>>25372123
>something that could have happened for any number of reasons that don't include magical thinking?
That's the thing about this stuff. From our perspective "it just happened" but from HIS perspective it was because of "magic" (or whatever we call magic). He desired something, and he got it. There are other plenty of stories, but you don't really won't get much from those, and besides, people tend to keep to themselves and don't report that much, so they just offer the information so you try it out yourself. There's a reason why these fall on "anecdotal evidence" category (even if they are considered "scientific research"). You have to explore this, absorb the perspective, practice and make experimentation. No "evidence" will ever satiate your inquiry as much as experiencing it firsthand.

>>25372166
i dont really want to be a millionaire. being a millionaire doesnt even mean much in this economy lol. what i care about most is my free time and developing skills, and also ive done plenty of soulsearching and questioning about why i believe what i believe already, i understand how to program myself to get what i want. im happy with myself. unless i can achieve physical immortality im really not interested in LoA man

>>25372195
This is not really LoA. LoA is just an approach to "it", and so is magick, reality shifting, etc. In fact, this stuff is what ancient traditions were really all about. If you want self mastery you can have trough these means as well (it's just another experience to "will" in your reality as anything else). The millionaire stuff was just an example because is what comes up most of the time from the skeptics ("why are all this people broke", etc). Even body alterations have been reported trough this stuff (not just recently, but even at the time when people like Neville Goddard were alive). Anyway, i won't push it further, i honestly think at this point that everything is possible for every single one of us to archive, but to each its own.

>>25372204
i see what youre saying, you have a perennialist view i think. if its a more general thing and youre adamant then i might be interested. are you saying that anything within my own character/body is possible or do you mean anything within the bounds of imagination? i know i can "reality shift" in the sense that if i lift big weights for a couple years and eat protein, ill get big muscles. but if i for example wanted an obscure metal vinyl to show up at my door, do you mean shit like that too?

>>25372151
>>25372177
>no guys actually magic refers to self confidence and thinking you will succeed but with fancier words
Charlatans, the lot of you.

>>25372213
are you saying that magic is a separate thing and you know how to do it or are you saying that youre disappointed its not harry potter

>>25372213
The second post you replied to didn't say that. It said the opposite actually: All this stuff has a tangential effect as far as you take it. But you have to do it yourself, contemplate the possibilities and experiment, draw your own conclusions. Its ok if you want to dimiss it, but that's pretty much it.

>>25372212
>are you saying that anything within my own character/body is possible or do you mean anything within the bounds of imagination?
Is more like that what you really are is the singular consciousness experiencing its own imagined world (including your body, thoughts, etc). Just for context: I come from Non Dualism perspective when it comes to this subject.
>i know i can "reality shift" in the sense that if i lift big weights for a couple years and eat protein, ill get big muscles. but if i for example wanted an obscure metal vinyl to show up at my door, do you mean shit like that too?
As someone who has been playing with this for body changes and have it as a pending goal at the moment, is more of like this: We do physical actions to cause physical changes in the ordinary baseline way of doing things (a human without magic), but when we use magick, we generally intent a change that, fully proceeded from without hesitation, alligns our experience to bring the changes we want. This is where rituals comes into play, which is more of a sensory theater in order to make symbolical acts to catalize our choices (doing this means that this will happen). So, if you make a ritual for example, have free pizza, you intend it from the end state (having pizza), and anything could happen: A close relative or friend invite you over and they order pizza, you go to the supermarket and there's a free pizza samples on a stand, you find a coupon for free pizza on the floor in your way to work, etc. From the way i see it, reality is like a dream, where your intentions have a global reach in order to bring about the change you want. However, not many people touch on this point as much as it needs to, and i think it where most of the misunderstanding of this comes about. There's only awareness-intention, and the rest is imagined.

>>25372253
im coming at this from a stem background so i like to experiment with stuff. if i were to make a ritual to convince me that id get free pizza, am i able to control the specificity? could i have enough sensory spectacle go on to convince myself that id get free pizza specifically through a delivery driver dropping it on my driveway?

also could you give me an everyday example of something that has the same feeling as this state where you are aligned with your intentions? or could you put it in terms of more common emotions maybe

>>25372265
>if i were to make a ritual to convince me that id get free pizza...
You don't actually have to convince yourself of anything. Any ritual done have an effect to some extent. Think about this stuff as technically as you can because, whatever magic is, it has been going around more longer than existence itself. In fact, think about rituals and intentions like moving your arm: Do you have to "believe" that you can move your arm to move it? No, right? It's the same with this. You just do it mechanically. In fact, i think it's more helpful to do it as procedural as possible taking for granted that something will happen, just like submitting an order in a restaurant.
>inb4 food analogy

>am i able to control the specificity?
Yes. In fact, the more specific the better because the value of this kind of experimentation is to see from oneself what it does, and understand the nature of experience.

Just to not be vague, here's a great template to chew on: https://old.reddit.com/r/DimensionalJumping/comments/3h2yxo/the_act_is_the_fact_part_one_an_exercise/

>inb4 reddit
Just check it out.

>also could you give me an everyday example of something that has the same feeling as this state where you are aligned with your intentions? or could you put it in terms of more common emotions maybe
It's kind of difficult to explain because intentions are not something we "feel", but rather something we "know". The physical sensations that arise, our thoughts, and actions, ARE products of intention, not the "intending" itself. So, in more straightfoward terms: You just decide. Try this:
>Say "i get free pizza now" three times in a row. Just do it. Simply. And wait 10 seconds.
>Now, deciding to get free pizza with this act, say the same thing, this time being aware that with this attempt you actually are intending to have it.

It feels different. The "knowing" is different. It particularly arises in the abdomen area when "it hits". And you see why is kind of tricky talk about it, as its actually doing it that we see how important is to put oneself in it.

>>25372284
[Cont...] My main sources for this stuff can be found here: https://mega.nz/folder/tFNnAALT#MZP_PJyXnhYnHu5RnrGiqQ

This was the stuff that did it for me. Along with continuous consideration and my alignment with my ideal for the sake of personal integrity.

>>25372123
>If it's so easy why doesn't it work for everyone who does it?
>if going to the gym and dieting actually worked why is everyone so fat? hmmm checkmate
There are innumerable reasons for why something that actually works would not be widely and effectively practiced or adopted by the masses.

>>25371379
>maybe 5-10 seconds
I can do that alre—
>Then 30 seconds, a minute and so on. Once you can keep 5 minutes of crystal clear attention (meaning ZERO mental fluctuations)
Thats sound really difficult, but very interesting. So thank you, I think this will take some time.
But thanks again, by no mental fluctuations, do you mean the mental image of object is completely still or thag you can mentally move it around but it has to be the same mental object.

>>25372785
By no mental fluctuations I mean absolutely zero distractions. As you begin practicing you'll notice different activity in the mind. There's the very gross "bla bla" in your head sort of thoughts, but there are also subtle mental fluctuations, like pseudo-images and wordless thoughts. It's like there's two (or more) "tracks" inside of your mind, and you will find that one track is largely focused on the exercise, while the other is still going off on its own accord. Eventually you'll experience a sort of merging where your mind is completely and totally, singularly focused on the object --at that point you'll realize you haven't truly concentrated for even a single second your entire life (although, I can't look inside anybody else's mind, maybe if you're naturally good at this sort of concentration, you'll have the "one-tracked mind" experience right away).
You'll get to a point to where you can do, let's say, 20 or 30 seconds of this total concentration and then you'll get this meta-cognitive realization of "holy shit, I'm really concentrating" which of course breaks the concentration (and I'm not talking about thinking the words "holy shit", but just a conceptual shift in the form of recognition that takes you away from concentration --even that is a mental fluctuation. I'm being very strict here with what constitutes a distraction).
>or thag you can mentally move it around but it has to be the same mental object.
The mental "movement" around the object is preliminary aid, like training wheels. Let's say your object is a pencil; you might hone in on really trying to imagine the graphite tip for a moment, then you move on the wooden texture below the tip, where the paint gets shaved away by the sharpener, then you might imagine the lettering on the side of the pencil in detail, etc.
But as you improve, all of these things will become less fuzzy and you will be able to hold the totality of the object (or image) in your mind at once.

>>25371907
Telepathy, remote viewing, improved healing, improved growth of plants, precognition, and psychokinesis including levitation have all been demonstrated under scientific observation.
You are an ignorant lying faggot making claims without having done any research.

>>25372842
>you haven't truly concentrated for even a single second your entire life (although, I can't look inside anybody else's mind, maybe if you're naturally good at this sort of concentration, you'll have the "one-tracked mind" experience right away).
You'll get to a point to where you can do, let's say, 20 or 30 seconds of this total concentration and then you'll get this meta-cognitive realization of "holy shit, I'm really concentrating" which of course breaks the concentration (and I'm not talking about thinking the words "holy shit", but just a conceptual shift in the form of recognition that takes you away from concentration --even that is a mental fluctuation. I'm being very strict here with what constitutes a distraction).
Then its pretty exciting or interesting, what you're describing is pretty difficult but doable, I wont pretend it will be easy,

But by the sound of jt even 20 to 30 seconds is a feat, so congratulations to you.
Not sure if you said it before, but how long can you concentrate for? And why the interest in it?

>>25372899
I can concentrate for as long as it takes me to get into an alternated state of consciousness, which is necessary if you have an interest in practicing magic.
see my first post
>>25368920

>>25373283
Interesting. Well thank you very much.

>>25366164
>"Bro this mystic author, like, had a mystical experience and wrote about it wtf??"
Ok?

>>25368878
>OH MY SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>TYRONE, IS THAT A FUCKING CROSS? A-ARE YOU A CHRI... CHRI... XTIAN TYRONE???
>TYRONE YOU SHOULD FUCKING KNOW BY NOW THAT CHRISTIANS ARE INTOLERANT CAPITALISTS PIECES OF SHIT TYRONE, WE NEED TO KILL THEM ALL. THEY'RE UPHOLDING THE REPRESSION OF THE PROLETARIAT AND FIGHT AGAINST COMMUNISM AND SOCIALISM MEANING THEY ARE NUMBER ONE ENEMY TYRONE. HAVEN'T YOU LEARNED ANYTHING ABOUT THIS?
>I CAN'T BELIEVE I PUT ON JEFRE CANTU-LEDESMA AND ALSO LET YOU FUCK MY WIFE WHEN ALL THIS TIME YOU'VE BEEN A CHRISTIAN
>I HAVE A CuCK FRIEND IN GERMANY WHOSE BULL IS A MUSLIM TYRONE. A FUCKING MUSLIM! HE'S SO TOLERANT AND COOL FOR HAVING A MUSLIM BULL! IF TELL HIM MY BULL IS A CHRISTIAN I'LL BE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF CuCKS TYRONE! A FUCKING JOKE! IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT TYRONE?
>IT'S NOT ENOUGH THAT YOU LIKE LISTENING TO "Touched" IN THE ALBUM "Loveless" AND THE WHOLE OF CHINA GATE FROM CUL-DE-SAC, IS IT TYRONE? YOU HAVE TO HUMILIATE ME EVEN FURHTER! TYRONE, YOU FUCKING NIGGER!
>I'M THE LAUGHING STOCK OF CuCKS, TYRONE! I'M THE LAUGHING STOCK OF CuCKS BECAUSE OF YOU! HOW CAN I HAVE ANY SELF RESPECT? HUH? TELL ME WHAT SHOULD I DO TYRONE? PLEASE HECKIN TELL MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>25372123
>if magic real why is the world not fair
Smartest materialist.

>>25366132
>If I call fields "magic" I own the materialists
uhh, No?

reading critiques of "materialism" on /lit/ reminds me of listening to undergrad stoners critique capitalism in college

>>25373849
Prove that psyche is a field

>>25373858
Define "psyche".

>>25373854
reading critiques of "idealism" on /lit/ reminds me of every posts from the emo angst pseud celine wannabes scene of the sexually frustrated teenagers among /r9k/

>>25372893
>Telepathy, remote viewing, improved healing, improved growth of plants, precognition, and psychokinesis including levitation have all been demonstrated under scientific observation.
Source?

>>25372729
>>25373347
But magic as it is claimed to work is not the same thing as going to the gym. It's not effort-based, there's no programming required, it supposedly fulfills your wishes just by thinking about them in the right way. If it worked, the world should be MORE unfair, because a small minority of people with access to the right special knowledge would be able to achieve whatever they want without the effort normal people have to put in, while everyone else struggles for years or decades for the same results, in a way that would be statistically anomalous.
You guys claim that everybody who knows how to do this stuff just happens to not want to be a millionaire or to have a harem of 10/10 chicks or whatever, but the fact that it is so widespread (/x/ schizos, Facebook boomers, nu-age types, etc.) means that it is extremely unlikely that someone with normal wishes like those, or even with fucked up wishes, would cross paths with it at some point. And if it works as claimed, it shouldn't matter if your wish is to be a douchebag millionaire with a neon lambo or whatever, everything you guys linked to went on and on about manifesting your wished-for worldline or whatever and said nothing about pure intentions or morality or goodness or heart.
For the record I am neither an atheist nor a materialist. I simply do not believe that what amounts to wishful thinking and confirmation bias backed by unprovable claims is anything but a waste of time at best and spiritually dangerous at worst.

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>>25372123
>If it's so easy why doesn't it work for everyone who does it?
Best way to explain it is using the game of catch.
You don't catch a ball by throwing it away from you. Your desire may be to catch a ball you've thrown, but throwing it harder doesn't help you accomplish that. No amount of ritual or practice will help you receive something you've purposefully decided to throw. This is where most retards get lost in the sauce.
What you instead do is throw the ball to someone else then they throw it back. The only way to catch the ball is to anticipate its arrival in the future after you've thrown it.
This is the same way I can predict the weather with inhuman accuracy. I don't scream at the sky "MAKE IT RAIN", I desire the rain and then anticipate its arrival within X days, which it usually does. But I am not responsible for the rain itself.
Hope that makes sense.

>>25374282
The literal book in the OP image along with its predecessor Real Magic by the same author

>>25373943
The mind

>>25374305
>it supposedly fulfills your wishes just by thinking about them in the right way.
Not really. The same with wishful thinking and "confirmation bias" (what would that even mean? Is like when people said "it was placebo the whole time" ignoring that it still gave a result). At least the most fundamental approach to it doesn't rely on the common LoA and New Ager "goodyfeels" kind of thing. Is focused intention what does the trick. Anyway, from my experience, people don't use magic either because they don't know about it, are scared of it so they supress it for themselves, or grew dissilutioned and instead of approach it differently they just give up and dedicate their lifes to shut it down when the subject comes up. What we call magic is actually how things always has been anyway, what determinates that when you walk off to your job you would be able to arrive safe? What dictates your luck? Well, whatever you thought, whatever underlying preconception or notion of reality you have, is your conclusions, held intentions and accumulated knowledge what is directing your experience, as (like some people on this stuff would point out to) reality depends on your perspective. Magic is more technical, mechanical and inpersonal than occultist and new agers want to make it looks like, it simply makew sense.

>>25374282
>>25374461
Sorcery by J. Finley Hurley is another one. The books by Robert B Stone and The Energy Cure by William Bengston as well.
The Robert Monroe stuff is popular, but look up Don Degracia's free book on OBE as well, "do_obe", he's also a PhD.
This chain of posts by the user "The Cusp" from the defunct DreamViews forum may be of interest for some: https://rentry.org/xchivee3
Later Neville Goddard, specifically his Law and The Promise, have related stories and commentary on imaginative reality and how the idea was unfolding at the time.
Look up the user TriumphantGeorge as well, he was a former physicist, and cites various sources for his stuff and draws their connection to "magic" or how he would put it: The core at the nature of experience.
And lastly, definitively read John Paolucci.

>>25374282
Empirical papers on the CIA website, baka.

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>>25374859
This.

>>25372123
>If it's so easy why doesn't it work for everyone who does it?
It doesn't work for YOU, which is a lie, because it works without fail every time, unless you think it doesn't to save face (which is casting another spell). This shit is so simple, there's no science to it.

>>25374917
>>25374859
>the CIA has a document about something so it must be 100% fact
I have a bridge to sell you
>>25374953
>it works every single time without fail
So surely you've achieved every single one of your wishes by now, right?
>unless it doesn't
Convenient.

>>25375000
Don't be disingenuous. By your own logic, then no sources will convince you of anything so talking to you is a waste of time, but you're also wasting your own. If you don't want to experience this stuff, fine, but is your loss.

Why are people that believe in magic always obviously retarded or mentally ill? Explain this phenomenom.

>>25375022
Your argument is that your claims are true just because at some point the CIA acquired a document about them and put it on its website. You're the disingenuous one here.
And again, if this stuff really works 100% of the time and you just have to think about it right, why aren't you living the life of your dreams right now? Why isn't the world ruled by a tiny minority of omnipotent reality benders? Why is the only "evidence" anyone can present of this stuff working just confirmation bias?

>>25374463
The mind is the complex interactions of physical systems and structures within the brain and body. "Mind" only occurs in this setting and the phenomenon can be impacted directly by damaging the brain or body. It is an entirely physical phenomenon.

>>25375205
Window means sunlight
Crack window, distorted sunlight
no window, no sunlight
simple lol

>>25375223
Yeah, that's great and all, but we already know that the interactions are chemical and electrical in nature in the brain and body. Physical principles, and mind is the direct product of those principles. End those processes, and the mind ceases to exist. Positing the "radio receiver" or "sun behind the window" is superfluous. It does not fit the case as we find it. Further, it's an unfalsifiable conjecture, like saying the universe is on the back of a turtle, and that under that turtle is another turtle, and it's turtles all the way down. It's rank nonsense.

>>25375524
Radio receives signal from tower.
Radio uses electoral impulses to play sound.
Source of sound is perceived as coming from the radio.
But in truth, true source is received from tower.
simple lol

This subject is pretty interesting and there are interesting arguments from both sides. It may be possible to make a magic general on /lit/? I think it's adequate because this endevour in particular relies on heavy text study.

>>25375753
idk I think magic general is to restrictive
Just say something like religious esoterism general or occult general, idk

>>25375780
The problem with that would be is that this is not a vague philosophical treatise, but the merging between philosophy and practical "manifestation" (a tainted term, but i lack a better word). Magic is about producing results, where the philosophical part is only examining our own assumptions about reality and who we are in relation to it. Magic implies change of the experience according to the will of one's own, and while occult and esoterism can be entertaining, it's just garment appreciation without this aspect. At very least, there has to be a merge between Magic and Philosophy (practice and theory), because one without the other is a loss cause and won't amount to anything.

>>25375060
You piece of shit subhuman fucking cretin, how dare you accuse that anon being disingenuous when you totally ignore the comment pointing you to two books by the leading scientist in the field? You are scum, sitting smug in your ignorance. Either learn some humility and actually challenge your preconceived notions for once, or simply kill yourself and stop infecting society with your stupidity.

>>25375205
>>25375524
No it fucking is not. This is nonsense that has already been scientifically by the mind performing things that are impossible under a materialist framework. Read Dean Radin and Edward F. Kelly.

>>25375753
You can try and I would welcome it, but nowadays any thread that requires genuine knowledge and experience to contribute to the discussion just gets derailed by fuckwits who insult what they clearly don't have even basic knowledge of. In continental philosophy threads its analyticfags, in pagan threads its christkangers, in Nietzsche threads its tradlarpers, in Jung threads its Dawkins-style 'science'fags, and we've already seen most of this thread spent correcting fucking imbeciles who've never read a single book on parapsychology.

>>25375955
>This is nonsense that has already been scientifically by the mind performing things that are impossible under a materialist framework. Read Dean Radin and Edward F. Kelly.
What they don't realize is that IT IS the materialist framework that doesn't allow them to accomplish things because magic is only possible if you do things that you won't otherwise do being a materialist (rituals and such). Is like a vegan that is telling you that meat doesn't exists or can't be eaten if it did but in order to eat it himself he first has to stop being a vegan, and then there's the fact that even if he managed to eat it he would still insist that meat is not real food (like when someone archieve results and call it all "placebo" while omitting the detail that results were archieved regardless). For people in the know, magic is clearly something that can only be lived trough when one's axioms are fundamentally changed or temporally turned off in order to partake meaningful experimentation. Discussing this stuff here is a circus because of the brimming hypocrisy of cretins being aware that ad hominems are fallacious EXCEPT when discussing this subject (how convenient). Golden rule for this is that in any discussion, the first one to get upset already lost, so if you're not up to wasting time and getting an headache, just ignore the pseud-skeptics and retards, because otherwise you're going to spend mental energy in a lost cause, in an argument that is not going to be useful for no one.

>>25375000
>dismissive vaguepost
I expected nothing else from a newfag acting in bad faith like yourself.

>>25374714
>defunc DreamViews forum
Fuck, what happened to it? I used to lurk that website a decade ago, and I always thought I could go back to it if I wanted to learn more about it. Is there an archive somewhere? Or an alternative?

>>25376090
>what happened to it?
It literally dissapeared. Look it up in a searcher, is nowhere to be found anymore.

>>25375955
>that has already been scientifically by the mind performing things that are impossible under a materialist framework
Pure fiction

>>25375550
Okay, and where does the tower get the signal? And where does that cause originate? And so on and so on, you'll only ever find material causes.

>>25376194
Reality is fiction.
>>25376200
Your awareness is the first cause.

>>25375982
And what is the actual mechanism of this "magic"? How do you determine the placebo isn't just a function of the immune system receiving signals from the brain at the unconscious level, again, entirely in the materialist framework? Just seems like a bunch of make believe honestly, with a dose of remembering the hits and ignoring the numerous misses.

>>25376205
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Deep stuff and I will totally buy the party line uncritically!

>>25376213
Yeah, you're so smart :) i would give you the gold if the site allowed me tehee. Last reply i give you.
>>25376208
Just read anything that has been recommended in this thread, literally anything. Don't you understand how worthless is to talk about the texture of the grass with someone who refuse to touch it?

I don't know how to talk about personal magical accomplishments without being mocked for it. There's probably no way to do it. We've all mocked someone even if just in our heads who claimed they could do something we told ourselves it was impossible (as a psychological defense mechanism), and this is no different.

>>25375955
>two books by the leading scientist in the field
Wow, the #1 bullshitter wrote books about bullshit. Impressive.

>>25376218
>do ur own research bro its not my job to educate you
Anything to avoid presenting an actual defense of your claims, huh?

>>25376218
Ah, so you just make stuff up and then act smug. I'll just class you as a schizo then, there are plenty around!

>>25376257
Either you can demonstrate something reliably, or you can't. If you can't, stop fooling yourself and others. If you can, go ahead and revolutionize whatever field your accomplishment would set on its head. But, of course, your "accomplishments" are almost certainly coincidences that could have just happened anyway.

>>25376277
>>25376282
>>25376287
>>25376290
This is a pathetic cope at this point.
>"Source? I need a SOURCE for that. No, your empirical evidence or whatever is just anecdotal so it doesn't count."
>"How you DARE to make me read on the literature board?! No! Those sources DON'T count! They have to allign with MY views, it doesn't matter that they may be incorrect!"
Nobody is entitled to spoonfeed you bro, i thought you were smart? Just believe in what you want, who's gonna stop you? This is why nobody bothers and just ignore you anyway. Enjoy being "correct".

>>25376293
Basically, you're just confessing it's all made up here. Also, nice "last reply", couldn't help yourself, huh? kek

>>25376303
Of who are you talking to, schizo? Yeah, everything that contradicts your views is made up nonsense, which is what i'm telling you.

>>25376290
>Either you can demonstrate something reliably, or you can't.
This only can be proven to oneself. This is why there's explanation as well as exercises to do in order to understand what's going on. If you don't accept how it is, then nobody here can really do too much. Life will go on, and everyone who know who they really are have nothing to prove to anyone else. However, sometimes one feels compelled to throw their cents when the topic resurfaces, but it's always the same thing. This reply >>25371729 summarized the situation pretty well.