>"GRRM pissed off millions of customers but he don’t give a shit. He got his bag. But his legacy is being such an epic bum ass bum that he crippled an entire genre, ruined consumer sentiment, and killed off an entire generation of epic fantasy authors." - Larry CorreiaHow much truth is there to this? I've never even heard of this author before but apparently he's successful and knowledgeable about the industry, his books have positive reviews on Goodreads, and there are other authors in the comments who say they agree with him. But it also does kind of come across as cope and/or envy.
Seems like kind of a sick puppy
There have been dozens of new fantasy series that have come and gone ever since the last ASOIAF book. Surely they ALL weren't by already established authors. Mark Lawrence, David Daglish, John Gwynne, etc. were all post Dance With Dragons, weren't they?
>>25368689I don't know if it's specifically GURM or not and it doesn't need to be an industry change, but consumer sentiment has certainly changed. Remember that the avalanche of fantasy didn't really happen until the 80s and 90s. Everyone had read LOTR growing up and how hard could it be? Since the fags were all writing endless series we didn't start to see the steam run out of these worlds until the 00s or later. It turns out giving people the benefit of the doubt on having a plan, having it "all worked out", that was a mistake. Not just for the series without and ending but all the shitty ones with a slapped together one. >Nope not gonna start a new series that might not finishThis is a rational position for a fucking six book series released over 10 years. Do these people not understand how much of a commitment that is in a world where people read maybe 10 books a year? I read 100 books and I'm wary to pick up a new series of anything. Fantasy authors want a fucking blank check of money and attention to maybe get around to a point in 10 years? The problem isn't that GURM didn't deliver, the absurdity is that this was ever normalized. >pic semi related
>>25368689what kind of a faggotized author types like that? i'd never want to read whatever slop he put out
"Customers" - sounds about right.
>>25368804>Nope not gonna start a new series that might not finish>This is a rational position for a fucking six book series released over 10 years.The trick is to only read the first installment to see if you like it, *then* you wait for the series to finish.You'd presumably be reading other books in the meantime, and it's not like said series will be your "main event", so to speak.
>>25368816He is, regrettably, one of the few sff authors that writes for heterosexual men (male).
>>25368689The reason why I would never pick up an unfinished "epic" fantasy series is because I'd have to wait two years for the next volume even if it did come out on time. Over the course of those two years I would read numerous other books - many of them having a much more interest and literary merit - and because your average fantasy series is over a million words of lore encyclopedia and not much else I would forget a great deal of it over the course of those two years and be lost upon picking up the story again. From there I have the choice of trying to read on while being confused about what's going on, or wasting my time by re-reading three 200k word volumes of fictional lore over again just to refresh my memory, and I'd rather just do neither and read something else.It was actually Correia himself who made me realize this. I dropped his "Saga of the Forgotten Warrior" series because when the last two books came out I couldn't remember what was going on and simply could not be bothered to re-read the whole series. It was entertaining in the moment. It was a decent break in between more serious reads. But reading literally a million words - with 600k of those words being a re-read - in one go is way too much effort for precisely the same kind of mindless entertainment you could get from a cheesy action movie.GRRM flaking on ASOIAF isn't the fundamental problem with the epic fantasy scene. The problem is that epic fantasy is more effort than it's worth.
>>25368816>>25368851He’s a Mormon. I feel like that fact alone explains almost everything you need to know about this guy. It perfectly explains why he has beef with Martin specifically, and it obviously has nothing to do with “le big bad fat man is being a bully to the poor small up and coming writer”. That’s just what he tells people so he doesn’t sound petty and vindictive but in reality it’s personal.
This has to be related to that weird really one sided Martin-Tolkien fan war where a very specific group of Tolkien fans (a small very autistic few of them) someone more chronically online than me might label “tradcath larpers” who seem to believe that Martin hates Tolkien and his books were an effort to insult and subvert Tolkien, fantasy, and I guess the implication being western values as a whole. And they call ASOIAF “nihilistic” or “torture porn” or whatever which shows they haven’t read them and are just going off the popular zeitgeist understanding of the TV show’s reputation. And then you look at the other side of this “argument” and it’s just nothing. Martin fans love Tolkien, Martin praises Tolkien constantly. It’s just a weird fake culture war microcosm that only one side wants to fight.
>>25368689If GRRM is to blame for anything is for being a manchild writer for manchild readers and for being an inspiration to millennial writers like Sarah J. Mass.
>>25368689If Winds Of Winter ever releases don't buy it. Pirate it.
>>25368909There are a few authors who are Tolkien-fanboys that have a hateboner for Martin and meme ASOIAF as "mean and nihilistic", but I don't think Larry is really one of them.
>>25368689>some nobody blames famous writer for his failures in lifeOK.
>>25368909@tolkienzone on xitter is the guy I mainly see artificially inciting this retardation, he obviously has a massive chip on his shoulder for some reason
Sounds like a short fiction rennaissance is upon us.
>>25368977>Some nobodyBut he owns a mountain!
>>25368977>>25369057He's not blaming Martin for his own failures he's blaming Martin for the failures of new authors trying to get published for the first time. He's just a good guy looking out for the little guys in community. Or at least, that's how he's framing it for the sake of preserving his ego, because yeah what you just said is obviously what it actually is.
>mormon>white supremacist>blames one author for larger trends in publishing that aren't even true>got called a loser by that author 15 years ago for starting a racist voting campaign for himself>bragging about publishing 30 books in the last 15 years>pic relatedhe is a massive loser and only makes any money off his books because he is publicly racist
>>25369244The thing is he was probably right about the awards being biased towards books with liberal messages or written by minority authors but it's clear that the bias itself wasn't his issue just that it wasn't biased towards his personal political affiliation, and even if it was he still wouldn't get awards because his writing sucks.
>>25368689GRRM not finishing ASoIaF and the rise of romantasy/litrpg are both the result of technosocial developments (feminism, "wokeism," videogames) that resulted in the emptying of masculinity from publishingt. enjoyed Saga of the Forgotten Warrior
>>25369266I have never heard of the term "litrpg" until this thread just now. From what I can tell it's just a western version of those asian light novels that are really shitty but have lots of wish fulfilment and power fantasy in them so people read them anyway for escapism.
>>25369269asian wuxia / progression fantasy / light novels / isekai are a big influence on litrpg but the big thing about them is having video game style inventories or spells or whatever so it'll say "then the goblin died and bobby got plus 150 experience points, and this leveled up his fireball spell to level 2! FIREBALL LVL 2 - user is able to control the fireball after casting / range 20 ft / power 6 / duration 5 s. then bobby continued walking down the road to the town"
>>25369299This. I wouldn't hate litrpgs so much if they didn't force videogame mechanics in. Nobody's reading this shit for the prose, but paragraphs breaking off to tell you about game stats sounds hideously obtrusive. It's just there for redditors to read and basedface over, just like how videogames have organic ways of simulating randomness, but instead normalfags love Baldur's Gate for having literal dice rolls on the screen because it's like their heckin' D&D.
>>25369299That sounds awful what the fuck.
>>25368689Boo-fucking-hoo. GRRM doesn't owe anyone shit. Fuck Larry Correia and his virtue signaling.
>>25369269This. Some fags rebranded isekai light novels and think they invented a genre.
>>25368689Who gives a flying fuck about genreslop controversy?
>>25369244>white supremacistI wish. These cucks always go out of their way to promote niggers and faggots to prove that democrats are the real racists or homophobes.
>>25368915I'll do you one better. I won't even watch it.
>>25369299why don't these faggots just join a DnD group and leave the grownups alone?
>>25369658or read it.
>>25369661That requires friends.
>>25369299>FIREBALL LVL 2 - user is able to control the fireball after casting / range 20 ft / power 6 / duration 5 s. then bobby continued walking down the road to the townTruly dark times ahead. Grim.
>>25368689Kind of. But not just George. If I see a new fantasy book and it says ''Book 1'' I just skip it. I do this with most media nowadays, fuck waiting YEARS for a sequel.
>>25368909You’re absolutely correct. I love ASOIAF and LOTR, yet I always see these weird fan wars online. To be fair, I think it started when the GoT show aired and some GoT fans started saying how much better it was than LOTR because it was “morally grey”Either way, I agree that Martin himself likes Tolkien, he just wanted his series to be different which is ok. >pic semi related
>>25369299What the actual fuck lol what’s an example of a book like this?
>>25369737Oh yeah, this particular crowd of people get especially pissed off about the concept of "grey morality" to the point where it's like it even being allowed in media is an existential threat to them.
Both of those guys are terrible writers lol.
>>25368689Juat write a story with an ending for the main plotline, you loser. If it sells, you can write a sequel. If it doesn't, write a short story wrapping up loose ends and release it on the internet.
>>25368689I don’t read anything that releases as a series. Simple as. Episodic entries being an exception (Fleming, Le Carre, etc). Maybe a Trilogy at most.I expect the last page of a novel to finish the story. If you have a follow up that’s fine but I’m not reading 500 pages to be told “see you in two years” for the next decade just to maybe have some closure at the end. Fuck you, scribe, learn to show some restraint. So yeah, if I see “book 1 of blah blah blah”, I immediately nope out.
>>25369688These people HAVE D&D groups and still do this. They're circlejerking around the fandom because they enjoy it and it appeals to le community.
>>25369334>>25369744>https://cdn.penguin.co.uk/dam-assets/books/9780241816264/9780241816264-sample.pdfDungeon Crawler CarlNew York Times bestseller, $5 million in salesand this is what it looks like
>>25368909I read LOTR, ASOIAF, and as a bonus Wild Cards as well>who seem to believe that Martin hates Tolkien and his books were an effort to insult and subvert Tolkien, fantasy, and I guess the implication being western values as a whole. And they call ASOIAF “nihilistic” or “torture porn” or whateverthis is 100% trueGRRM's main, if not only unique selling point is gore, rape, torture, of children as well, and nihilism
>>25368689>killed off an entire generation of epic fantasy authorsGod bless him if true.
>>25368909Moorcock and the Chinese guy tried to do it, and failed.
What about Aragorn's tax policy?
Is there any reason in writing fantasy novels these days, when you could hook up with an artist, make a visual novel, and have it reach way more people?Some people just insist on living like it's the 20th century and there's an unquenchable appetite for schlocky genre novels.
>>25371170>GRRM's main, if not only unique selling point is gore, rape, torture, of children as well, and nihilismRead the books.
>>25371165>New York Times bestsellertotally meaningless
>>25368870This is basically what happened to me with Wind and Truth with a side of nothing fucking happening for over 100 pages.Meanwhile I can just read some Fritz Lieber or Jack Vance and have a complete, fun adventure in a faction of the page count. Why read anything from after 2000?
>>25368804>in a world where people read maybe 10 books a year?
>>25371578>visual novel>bigger audiencePick one and only one
>>25368909You’re 99% right but the remaining 1% is to point out that those larping fags can’t engage with Martin because they’re too simple-minded to deal with a deconstruction and interrogation of simple values. This is also why the ‘western values’ they claim to champion is a load of horseshit, because western philosophy values criticism. They wouldn’t be able to read Hobbes or Machiavelli either despite them being the most important political philosophers in the west. In reality they’re just manchildren who never want to intellectually or emotionally mature.
>>25373124>In reality they’re just manchildren who never want to intellectually or emotionally mature.Having skinned through the work of writers with such beliefs, I can confirm this is true.
>>25368689Larry says this stupid shit constantly but never mentions the fact that Jordan did the same thing for YEARS by never completing his series. And the reason he wont mention that is because Larry is currently trying to suck more readers out of Sanderson's dick, and Sanderson of course finished that series.Larry is seething because he didnt get a Hugo and GRRM sells WAYYY more books than him and got a show and will be remembered forever etc.>GRRM is hurting authors by not finishing his book!Besides the fact that the fantasy genre has exploded in sales since the GOT tv show, and is responsible for the success of all the slop he mentions in his tweet, this is retarded because consumers dont, generally, think like that. No meaningful amount of potential readers are not buying a book because GRRM hasnt finished his series. Its just an excuse for Larry to make his seething look like a righteous crusade.>>25368898Hes not even a born Mormon. Its even worse. He voluntarily converted from Catholicism to Mormanism as a college age adult. Think about how retarded you have to be to not see through Mormon lies like the book of abraham scroll translation bullshit and thats why he writes the slop he does.>>25368914true.
>>25368689>But his legacy is being such an epic bum ass bum that he crippled an entire genre, ruined consumer sentiment, and killed off an entire generation of epic fantasy authors."And nothing of value was lost
>>25368689>he don’t give a shit>"""""""""""""""""author""""""""""""""""">can't even proper Engrishwhat the fuck do I carealso fuck fantasy shit and gay of thrones especially, fucking garbage kept running and Rome was cancelled FUCKING SHIT
>>25373469Rome was a fantasy ahistirucal garbadge too
>>25373490*ahistorical
>>25373142This is fucking grim
>>25368689Apparently the true guarantee of success in the fantasy genre is an inability to construct a coherent sentence.It worked for Gurm and this Larry faggot. It can work for you too.
>>25368909>Martin praises Tolkien constantlyWell, he certainly mentions Tolkien constantly - chiefly to invite comparisons with himself.His middle initials are "RR," don't you know ...
>>25369244>opens his book with a tautologyOh dear.
>>25371165>mfw goblins have pure spunk
>>25371578>visual >novelPick one, tranny.
>>25371642lol no
>>25373490What elements of Rome were ahistorical in your opinion?
>>25373865Then the least you could do is stop being a faggot
>>25373946Who else is gonna fuck your dad when he craves some cock?
>>25373872Not that anon, but everything about the Egypt subplot was pure fantasy.
>>25374010I think you mean parody rather than fantasy.Part of the charm of the show was how it worked sly fictional elements into the framework of history. The history is generally sound, and the departures from it are deliberately unfalsifiable.
>>25373977>faggot is also retardedAnd nobody is surprised
>>25368689I don't think he's necessarily right about it being specifically GRRM's fault, but it really does seem like the 2010s broke a bunch of different writers. Martin isn't the only one who floundered, Pat Rothfus also imploded. A lot of the more emotionally-driven creators all got burned out by the internet, I think. It changed the PH of the water as it were and some people just can't survive it. The environment is no longer suitable for meandering cycles, publishers want trilogies or single books that can stand on their own.My advice: Write a standalone book and then just set additional ones (if there are any) in the same setting. You can't rely on cutting a story into pieces anymore, but you can string multiple stories together. That or self publish.
>>25368689The only genre GRRM killed was the one he created, namely doorstopping grimdark political slop. This guy's entire career is crying about how unfair and mean the publishing industry is when it's never been easier to get a hit out of nothing. He's just mad he's not skilled enough to identify or write to the trends.>>25369244Imagine how insanely spooky it'd be if the familiar dream was always different...
>>25373825Whole thing can be accurately described as "christian reddit-core"
>>25369244>There are people that think the first line is fine
>>25371165The crap that gets shilled on sffg daily.
>>25374604>built for speed>short
>>25368689>you don't understand, I MUST write a 5-book series over the span of 60 years!I have no sympathy.
>>25374604Jizzing Jesus, it's like he's never read an actual book in his life. Just texts and Xitter posts.
He just keeps doubling down. Notice he refuses to name Jordan who fucking died without finishing his shitty books. The only observable market shift is that fantasy has quadrupled in sales since GOT aired and this retards books have benefited massively.
>>25375587Going by his substack, he unironically only reads slop.
>random fat fuck criticizes martin for not finishing his work>entire thread of gurm xissies coping and deflecting and hallucinating tolkiendrones to avoid confronting the fact that their hero has, in fact, not finished his work and never willlol
>>25375959And you're so above it all you just had to come here and waste your own time telling us how above it all you are.
>>25375959Where's the avoidance? Everyone knows he hasn't finished his work you stupid faggot.
>>25371165>even goblins have incels
