Bede edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>25286593>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
>>25339706Old thread fail link
Looks like neo-latin's back on the menu boys!
>>25369072I will get to learning Latin once I finish this semester. What do you guys think about the Downling Method?
>>25369079It seems like mathematical latin is incredibly simple in terms of the linguistics. Or at least it shares so much with mathematical english that someone could acquire a high level of fluency in this register first if they had a background in mathematics. For me, I really am just struggling with the concepts because I'm a wordcel rather than the language.>>25369089"Dowling method" as proposed by the professor is excessive and stupid. You should begin reading LLPSI day one. However, chanting tables from memory and/or writing them out by hand is absolutely extremely helpful. I did a lot of that when I started, but I was also reading the whole time. The noun table is more important to get down than anything else since that's the biggest initial barrier as an anglophone, you can really do without the rest for basic reading since the adjective table is largely derived from the noun table, the comparatives are easy, and the verb tables are so massive (yet governed by underlying rules) that outright memorizing the tables may be more impractical.
https://scrollprize.org/firstscroll
>>25369089I just googled it, and I was just reading about how D'Ooge's Latin For Beginners Compares to Gildersleeve's A Latin Primer, and it said the latter does not talk about syntax other than a brief section at the end, instead it focuses on memorizing endings or whatnot, so that seems like basically the same philosophy.https://archive.org/details/latinforbeginner0000benjhttps://archive.org/details/latinprimerintro00gildrich
Reposting from the last one.I have a question regarding game fluff, surprisingly. It's from Solium Infernum - a strategy game about demon princes vying for the control of Hell. It has plenty of literary and mythological references, and borrows heavily from works such as Ars Goetia and Paradise Lost. Here is the tidbit in question - it's fluff description of one the of the recruitable units:>Viridis Extraho, or the Dragon, is a large, multi-headed beast living north of the mountain range flanking the river Hades. He may grow six to eight auxiliary heads depending on the season, his hunger, and the nocturnal migration of dire boars across the Silted Plains. The Dragon has long necks with flat, broad dorsal plates. His horns grow in unique patterns per head, though they generally start at the forehead then follow his spine or begin at his crown then circle his head through mandible and then the throat. It's pretty obvious what kind of the Beast it is. But what exactly is 'Viridis Extraho' here? Most probably it's just an example of faux Latin but is there any reference in classical or biblical sources to what it could allude to?Latin dictionaries https://latinlexicon.org/search_latin.php define 'viridis' as>green>[plur n. as subst] green plants, herbage>green, youthful, fresh, blooming, lively, vigorousand 'extraho' as>to draw out, draw forth, pull out, drag>[figuratively] to withdraw, extricate, release>to extract, eradicate>to draw out, protract, prolong
>>25369126extraho specifically is in the 1st person singular present. So it's not "to draw out..." more like "I draw out."Viridis" is an adjective, so yes it is grammatically not proper for a name.If you wanted to get goofy you could imply the object is implied, i.e. "the green [thing] I draw out". and thus argue that it is a full sentence. However, since it's a name it doesn't make any sense.
>>25369104Really cool that greekbros can actually do novel translation of pagan-era works again
>>25369156Posting random irrelevant images for attention is a sign of low iq and low moral character.
>>25369235>he posted, on an imageboard
Ecquis vestrum Certamen Mundiale Pediludii (World Cup) spectavit?Heri vidi Uruguaios omnino victos ab Hispanis, dein ducem eorum irasci quasi simiam. Quid autem vos vidistis?
>>25369249I said random irrelevant images for attention. Not any images. A mature person posts relevant images when they add value to the discussion. You however are a littering nigger polluting the information landscape with your presence.
Do you all actually learn "classical languages" beyond Latin, Greek, and perhaps among a few of you Hebrew or Sanskrit?
>>25369325I would never in a million years want to learn it or even to say anything beyond the bare minimum really, but I know irl people who speak Nahuatl.
>>25369346I'm a firm believer that learning a language like that is inviting ancient demons to infest you.
>>25369325Only dabbling beyond Latin so far, but I intend on going deeper into Greek eventually. Maybe some hebrew someday, but probably not. I have a set of hebrew texts including textbook, a full prayer book, and a tanakh that I inherited from a theologian relative. Idk if I would bother going beyond Genesis with Hebrew>>25369320>picrelAnyways, so far having a really productive day in terms of reading. Have read a large chunk of the old testament, also so far 26 psalms (and counting) into an audio playlist I found, read about 10 chapters of Caesar, some aesop's fables, and a little chunk of Gauss from the roll table. What have you guys been reading so far today (or lately)?
posting an image with zero relevance to your post should be a bannable offense, only low iq degenerates do it
One thing that I found today that might be interesting to anons on here is that https://ephemerisnuntii.eu/ has links to .pdfs of various latin periodicals going back to the 19th century. For example, here's one for the period when WW2 started. They're fun to read.https://arxlatina.org/pegmata/periodica/almaroma/AlmaRoma.1939.ann26.fasc08-09.Aug-Sept.avent.pdf>>25369451I actually almost exclusively post relevant images but have been purposely accompanying the bulk of my posts with reaction images ever since you crashed out on that other anon for posting cats.
>>25369451Sir, this is a Greek language thread.
>>25369461>I actually almost exclusively post relevant images but have been purposely accompanying the bulk of my posts with reaction images ever since you crashed out on that other anon for posting cats.good to know that you're a low iq degenerate
The articles are really interesting since they represent what latinist nerds in Italy thought about current events up until like 1942.>>25369469yes yes you're quite right anon. baka sum.
>>25369472>Discriminatoon of Germans inside the Polish corridor and Danzig So it’s basically a mouthpiece for 1930s Berlin/ Rome?
>>25369475Well, it was 1939 in this article. It dates back to 1914 so it would have included coverage of the entire war against Germany in ww1.
>>25369156>>25369104It’s really remarkable. Imagine what those first poor souls who first cracked open and disintegrated the scrolls would say
>>25369485Also the annexation of South Tyrol plus expulsion of Germans.
Why did no one tell me Pharr was so good
>>25369152That's what I thought. It seems like 'extraho' was meant to be taken in the sense of 'to eradicate'. Probably it was an attempt to say 'something that eradicates'. Veridis doesn't make much unless it's literally meant as 'green'. >>25369104He's relentlessly cute.>>25369325>Do you all actually learn "classical languages" beyond Latin, Greek, and perhaps among a few of you Hebrew or Sanskrit?I once dabbed into Sumerian a tiny bit. Links I gathered for Sumerian were actually added in OP:>Work in progress FAQ>https://rentry dot co/n8nrko
>>25369556>the Green thing that eradicates stuffWow, what a badass name.
>>25369072How do you guys find time for this? I'd really love to learn Latin but I work 60+ hours a week, and I'm becoming a law student in the fall.
>>25369555Looking at it now.https://archive.org/details/vergilsaeneidboo00virg_0It's similar to the completely parsed classics I've posted before.https://archive.org/details/CommentariesOnTheGallicWarCaesarCompletelyParsedBookIhttps://archive.org/details/completely-parsed-cicero-oration-1https://archive.org/details/fully-parsed-horace-odes-translation-pub-cohttps://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31822003632080I really liked the prospect of these but found them tough to use with AI due to all the mistakes AI makes, but I'm not going to give up quite yet. I might read a little of D'Ooge's Latin For Beginners before I return to these.
>>25369565Takes literally 5 minutes to learn a few words.
>>25369613This. As simple a workflow as possible, as oriented towards reading volume as possible, to save the maximum amount of time.>>25369565I learned Latin as a way to have a hobby without just turning my brain off during law school. It's close enough to english, and you can focus on literacy, to the point that you can make solid progress if you're just consistently reading a bit a day. I'm studying for the bar right now.Anyways, picrel is from another periodical, running from before ww1 till the end of ww2. Very interesting, I've only ever read one primary source before from Austria Hungary in WW1, and it was from a Galician, not a Hungarian.>Iuventus: ephemeris quae Budapestini ab anno 1910 usque ad 1944 in usum iuventutis studiosae edebatur et discipulos totius Europae ad Latinitatem colendam inflammabat.
>>25369613Obviously, but I moreso mean the reinforcement needed to remember, especially when the word doesn't have a clear cognate in English.
>>25369642PatienceOn the theme of September-October, 1939, here's what Iuventus had to say. Their tone makes sense considering Hungary at the time was still neutral, especially regarding their historic friendship with Poland.There's really a goldmine of fairly transparent intermediate latin in here, lots of fables about stuff like columbus, or aesop style stories, jokes, poems, even Hungarian folk music translated into Latin.
>>25369633Thanks anon. Good luck on the bar!
>>25369642You could dowload the anki app if that's your thing. For Latin there's an app called Legentibus.
>>25369654>>25369647To add to that, for LLPSI specifically, try this deck, cause cards are tagged by chapter in FR->RA, just introduce cards by tag after you read the chapter once, and make sure to reread the chapter at least a couple times after reviewing the cards. The reinforcement from the book plus the cards worked for me, I would just blitz the cards for like 5 minutes a day and read LLPSI for 15 minutes. U got dis anon. Also bible is good outside reading.
>>25369674Fuck. Forgot link.https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1763694683
>>25369677People like you are law students. What a shit society. Unbelievable. No wonder there's legal homo marriage etc. Law school at Costco. I hope you fail.
>>25369646That Homo homini lupus paragraph...
>>25369555>>25369603Or are you looking at the book for Greek? I'm having a look at that now and it's quite different.https://bibletranslation.ws/down/Pharr_Homeric_Greek.pdf
>>25369701>studentsGraduate. Juris Doctorate.
>>25369782I hope you fail your bar exam. Neck yourself.
>>25369565I got fired and now I’m unemployed
>>25369785What’s going on big guy? You having a bad week?
>>25369798>>>/lgbt/
>>25369794zased...>>25369785Quare me tam valde odis Anone? ano... eto... bleh!>>25369798He's been struggling even to use fully parsed Caesar with an AI helping him and he's taking it out on anyone that posts reaction images. It's made the thread more lively than usual.----------------------------------------------------------Anyways, I got through a few chapters of the apocalypse of John. I'm finding it easier than I found the epistles. I was kind of sick of the epistles after I finished Romans. I think because, even though it is prophetic, the metaphors are all based around concrete objects and events rather than complex reasoning. The sentences are also a lot shorter. Has anyone else here ever read much Comenius? I was reading the Janua Linguarum Graece-Latine a bit today. I know a couple Comenius knowers post here.
>>25369807Ut Plato aitPost benchPost deadliftPost heightPost FFMIDon't you know Greco-Roman chuds lift and bang women? It's like the whole point of the larp, we do as the cool statues say, drink wine, lift weights, recite poetry, unless you're priestmaxxing. We're all automatically cooler and straighter than you because we know Latin and you don't. Ut Cicero ait, non enim tam praeclarum est scire Latine, quam turpe nescire. Baka.
>>25369808It's no surprise that someone who posts lewd images has low moral character. Enjoy your ban faggot.
>>25369832I would kick your face in if I saw you IRL.
>>25369325I study Classical Chinese Also Old Norse if that counts I've always wanted to learn Latin and Ancient Greek but I can't commit
>>25369834Fortior et altior quam te sum, pathice.
>>25369556nta but although rarer than -tōr, there is an agent noun forming -ō like in blatero, -onis or paedico, -onis or vapulo, -onis, etc that in theory could work for extraho, so third declension in -onis meaning someone who extracts, though the bad latin angle is probably right
>>25369883Thanks for your input.
>>25369104Very nice, glad for the Greekbros out there, let's hope they get all the papyri scanned and uploaded soon. Also hoping this finally pushes them to excavate the Latin wing of the villa's library as well
Videtur tamen quod proscriptus non sum.Ergo, colloquamur opera Comenii. Videtur quod ea sint via proba et facilis ad discendum linguam graecam per linguam latinam, et, pro tironibus, ad discendum linguam latinam per linguam anglicam.
Has anyone read Marsilio Fixino's Latin translations of Plato?
>>25369556I posted my guess in the previous thread.>>25370419Possibly he was working out of an English-Latin dictionary, and just used the entry for "drag" because either the dictionary lacked an entry for "dragon," or (more likely) he found the entry for "dragon" but copied the translation from the adjacent or nearby entry for "drag" by mistake.
>>25369603>>25368840The reason you're having such a hard time is you're doing it wrong. As Lambert Sauveur said, you need to at a bare minimum commit the first thirty chapters of De Bello Gallico to memory before you even THINK about Latin grammar. You clearly didn't finish reading the Introduction to the Teaching of Ancient Languages.
>>25370461It is a little sad talks with Caesar doesn’t cover all 30.
I think we should go back to the system we used to have, where women stayed in the kitchen. Women studying law, women learning Latin, women talking with people from far away... Absolute cancer. They should know their place, which is to have no rights and freedoms. You give women rights and everything turns to shit, literally every square inch of society becomes corrupted. Inshallah. Heil Hitler.
>>25370461No, the book itself says it can be used as a beginner book, but it says you should do it differently. Did you miss my post?: >>25368903I think most people wouldn't even read the footnotes, or skim them and if they didn't quite understand a part they would move on. I however was working by the method that I was trying to, with google lens, understand every jot and tittle of the footnotes. It's not hard to understand the text with just the interlinear and the margin translation, but I wanted to go deeper, because the footnotes are there for a good reason.
https://www.pbslearningmedia.org/collection/latin-grammar/
>>25369325I'd like Aramaic, Sumerian or Ancient Chinese
>>25370719Your own quotes post clearly says to learn the declensions, to decline adjectives, and to inflect the verbs first.
>>25371068Yeah. I know. What's your point? I skipped directly to the text, and when I found that it didn't work as well as I had hoped with google lens I read the preface and posted it here for others to see.
>>25371073Your posts are oddly incoherent. It’s as if you purposely make them ambiguous for the purpose of arguing with people that are trying to help you.
>>25371084fuck off
>>25371102There you go, getting mad at anyone who tries to help you. You may say you’re responding to criticism, but you respond poorly even to people giving polite advice in good faith. How many more days are you going to continue complaining about parsed Caesar? Everyone, from posters ITT and all the books are giving you fundamentally the same advice. Go learn your basic declensions and the gist of conjugations, and get reading. If you put half the energy that you put into shitposting here into studying, you’d already be reading a bit by now. Good luck dude.
>>25371122didn't read fuck off
Started Latin recently. How well should I learn all the endings? Is it enough to roughly recognise them or should I be able to recite them? And if so, how can I do that besides flashcards?
>>25371143Cover it and recite it aloud. Repetitively.Nouns are most important at first. The regular nouns endings on table 1 of this website https://www.jonathanaquino.com/latin/ is the only morphology I really made an effort to extensively memorize before I was able to read much. Everything else becomes much easier to learn as you go. However, I would not recommend avoiding readers until after some arbitrary level of memorizing. Start reading readers day 1. LLPSI is popular for a reason, but there are many other readers out there you can use.
>>25371127I bet you didn’t or won’t read any Latin today either. Meanwhile I’ve read 10 chapters of Caesar so far. Sad!
>>25369325Classical Chinese and Japanese (kobun) yeah
>>25371196I tried a little ching chong but I only retained really a smattering of characters and I memorized the following poem.春種一粒粟,秋收萬顆子。四海無閑田,農夫猶餓死。It seems especially susceptible as a lang to outright memorizing text, like the analects, though when compared to a synthetic language like Latin. How did you study it?
>>25369709Prescient considering this was written only a couple weeks into the war, and only a few years later Hungary would be a bombed-out Soviet-occupied regime at the conclusion of the deadliest and largest war in history.
idk if anyone on here has posted this before but there's a gargantuan database of patristic/church latin hosted by Uchicago. Here's a random letter from a 10th century pope.https://artflsrv04.uchicago.edu/philologic4.7/PLD/navigate/6184/2/34It would be nice if there were a database of databases, some kind of index.
>>25369713I was talking about Pharr's Homeric Greek actually.
>>25371336>It seems especially susceptible as a lang to outright memorizing textYou’re right, I’ve always admired their philosophy of basically saying “since understanding only develops after the age of 15, and a person’s ability to memorize is at its strongest before that age, let’s focus on brute memorization of classical texts for 15 years before truly studying them.”>How did you study it?I already have a good knowledge of Japanese, so it helps me with characters as well as grammar. Classical Chinese is surprisingly closer to Japanese than it is to Mandarin in terms of syntax. As for what I did concretely, it was mostly reading texts with Japanese annotations (kundoku) to get used to things.
>>25371443ah yeah I came across some of these at a used book stand last time I was in nippon. When you recite CC do you basically just recite by the onyomi? How does reciting CC in Japanese actually work?
>>25371455>do you basically just recite by the onyomi?We do that for Buddhist scriptures/sutra, but for CC there's a whole tradition of deciphering the texts. It's called kanbun.>How does reciting CC in Japanese actually work?The little characters you see around the text are here to tell you in which order you're supposed to read the kanji and what okurigana you should use. So here for the first sentence it would go as:子曰く学びて時に之を習ふ、亦説ばしからずや。This sentence is called a 書き下し文. If you read the text in Japanese without annotations (白文), you’re supposed to reconstruct them in real time and put all the words in the correct order by yourself. It can become incredibly hard, but it’s a matter of habit.As for pronunciation, I find it more comfortable to pronounce things directly in Mandarin nowadays.
>>25371499doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of poetry? It makes sense for non-poetic texts at least.
>>25371511I agree with that, but word rearrangement is usually minimal in poems. For example:朝辞白帝彩雲間千里江陵一日還両岸猿声啼不住軽舟已過万重山->朝に辞す白帝彩雲の間千里の江陵一日にして還る両岸の猿声啼いて住まざるに軽舟已に過ぐ万重の山It still destroys tones and rythm tho.
>>25369325Arabic. It's an interesting situation where "modern standard Arabic" is just a standardized version of the classical liturgical language, and is not casually spoken in MENA countries. Golden age Islamic texts are underrated.
I would love to get a latin-arabic Koran for my autism. The original medieval translation is a little odd because every single chunk is paired with a Christian refutation of the text following the translation.
>>25369709The most surprising thing to me isn’t the heavy pro-German slant as that is to be expected from time and place but rather “Germania Orienalist” used to refer to Danzig. I’d assume in Latin that name would later be used for the GRD/ Honecker regime.
>>25371652I thought in the map Germania Orieanalist is referring to East Prussia, since Danzig is drawn outside of its borders.The tone of the Hungarian publication didn't strike me as pro-German but rather bemoaning the outbreak of the conflict in general. At the time and place, Hungary, while Germany aligned, had long had a friendship with Poland and generally did not support or assist the invasion of Poland IIRC, instead joining the war later, but I'm really not a WW2 guy.
>>25370440partly, the bilingual Firmin-Didot editions have, besides the original Greek, a Latin translation which is largely the same as Ficino's original translation minus few adjustments, I've read few dialogues from them in Greek mainly but checking the Latin
>>25371595lmao I can't believe I've never known about that. I imagine it was basically compulsory for a medieval scribe/author to do something like that in order to maintain some professional grace.
>>25372077The story is a little more complicated seemingly. I realized the edition I posted is actually 17th century. The translator had learned Arabic because he spent time with Maronite Catholics in order to make a Bible translation. In the process he obviously read the Koran and a lot of other Islamic works, and before he made this he made a prefatory work that was essentially a summary of refutations against Islam, explaining them to Christians and how to refute them, I guess a little like how we know Gnostic beliefs because of St. Iraneus’s refutations, which were made to educate bishops to better argue against Gnostics. So, besides the Latin Koran translation, we have this guy to thank for an Arabic translation of the Bible.
>>25372210That's seriously really cool; it does seem strange how close it seems that there could have been strong cultural bridges for the cultures and traditions throughout history, but it never ends up happening in any strong measure. The closest you really get is in scholarly intercourses.
>>25372277Well it did happen in some spots. Look into the 12th century kingdom of Sicily. Emperor Frederick II even learned Arabic since that’s where his seat of power was.In terms of somehow really enduring, Maltese has been deeply affected by Romance and Latin such that much if it’s vocabulary is European, and it’s the only Arabic language that uses a Romance script AFAIK.
>>25372345Damn, medieval politics is nuts. Reading about great kings back then is always bittersweet; the second they die the entire structure around them seems to collapse simultaneously. Arabic has been pretty difficult as my first serious linguistic effort, but it's practically nothing compared to all the efforts passed before. Maybe I'll try and pick up some latin one day as well.
bump
How difficult is Ancient Greek compared to Latin?I read left to right and I don't like translating, will that be a problem?
>>25373653yes, though neither the alphabet nor the writing direction are an issue, lexicon and grammar are the mountain to climb
>>25373859Like every language
I’m ecstatic. My loebs for the complete 3 volumes for Caesar and for volume 1 of Augustine arrived. Immediately read 10 new chapters of Caesar and got 5 into Augustine. Caesar is so much easier to read now after I got through Talks with Caesar, and Augustine is a lot easier than Caesar.Have you read today, anon-kun?
Anywhere I can find a clean .txt or .epub version of LLPSI that allows me to just copypaste the texts into Lute without any OCR errors or shitty formatting?
>>25374199Idk about LLPSI specifically but for what it’s worth there’s overall an immense amount of digital databases for ancient texts.If you’re lutemaxxing, bible can be a really solid choice, since the easy lookup system lets you tackle real texts early.
>>25374167>Talks with CaesarPuke
>>25374199Just use google lens with this. Its OCR is much better than for example the one that's built into archive.org.https://archive.org/details/familia-romanaOn laptop right-click, search image with google lens, select the area, copy text. On phone tap and hold on the page, download, then open by tapping the camera icon in the google search bar on your home screen if there is one or open it with lens.google.com.
>>25374299Or just go to google.com and tap this icon.
interlinear Gallic War, but with English word order, disappointinghttps://archive.org/details/caesarscommentar07caes
>>25374558This is probably only intended to be used either by absolute beginners, or used as a reference/aid when reading the real text, since Caesar’s word order is the biggest hurdle. I’ve seen the same thing in an Aeneid interlinear.
>>25374292>study the way I would or don’t learn at allAutists like you kill Latin
>>25374265Yeah, I know. I just want to get through some beginner material before I jump into real stuff.>>25374299I decided I'm just going to type it out by hand. The accents/diacritics mess with the lookups so even if the OCR ends up perfect, I still need to check and clean it up.
>>25375075Google lens is AI, so after you have selected and copied a big block of text just type "remove macrons and hyphens" and it does that.
>>25375075>scriptoriumHoly based...
>>25375104
>>25375075When I looked at Lute, I remember the automatic Wiktionary or L&S searches didn't like the macrons, but Lute might have a place you could put a script to automatically convert macron-ed vowels to plain vowels. Failing that, depending on how heavily you're relying on the macrons, retyping the word without diacritics when the initial lookup fails is not that much of a burden.
>>25375195Ok, I was skeptical but it actually works perfectly. Manual typing got tedious pretty quickly. Thanks!
How do I learn Hittie bros…
started with the Argonautica, pretty bold move to have the ships catalogue 2: electric boogaloo right at the start
>>25376714Ship catalogue would’ve been hype performed live back in the day
>>25376757It was the ancient equivalent of the WWE Royal Rumble.
for Hellenanons
>>25377543rollan
I miss writing essay's.Might write an essay on my chosen subject, Pliny's Natural History.
ἥκω ἐν τῇ ἐμῇ οἰκίᾳ ληξάσης τῆς τοῦ στρατοῦ στοιχειωδοῦς παιδεύσεως. Χαλεπῶς ἔφερον ἄρχομενος τὴν στρατεία. Ἀπορῶ πῶς ἔσται ἡ ὑστέρα παίδευσις ἣ διαρκεῖ ἑνὸς μηνός. Φασὶν ὅτι καίπερ δυσχερεστέρα κατὰ τὸ σῶμα ῥᾴων ὁ βίος ἐπεὶ μείων ὁ τῶν στρατιωτῶν ἀριθμός, ἔτι πλεῖον ἴδιος χρόνος ὥστε δύνασθαι μελετᾶν. Νῦν μελετῶ τὰ Ἑλληνικὰ τοῦ Ξενοφώντος διότι ῥᾴδια ἐστὶ καὶ οἷος τ’ εἰμι γιγνώσκειν. Οὐ πολλαὶ ἡμέραι ἕως ἐπανίω εἰς τὸ στρατόπεδον. Ἐρρωσθε , ὦ φίλοι!
>>25375761create an altar to Craig Melchert and he shall bless you with the knowledge of Hittite (he has a good textbook).
>>25377543rolling
>>25378986I've read quite a bit more than the challenge required from Poemander, kinda interesting actually, I expected something much more incomprehensible but the narrative form is kinda interesting, the Greek is relatively comprehensible(given the topic) but I also used a Latin translation from the Renaissance to compensate. I may even try to read it all although I'm getting filtered by the content.>>25379384χαῖρε φίλε, καλῶς τὰ σ' ἀναγιγνώσκειν αὖθις· ἐκ τῶν γέγραφας ἴσως κατὰ παιδείαν χρῆν ὑμᾶς μανθάνειν μᾶλλον ἢ τὸ σῶμ' ἀσκεῖν; ἴσως ἵνα τοῖς νῦν ὅπλοις εὖ δύναισθε χρῆσθαι;(ἅτε πλείονος ἀξίοις εἰς τοὺς πολέμους ἢ τὸ πάλαι τὸ πλῆθος)· πλείονα γοῦν χρόνον ἔχων εἰς σχολὴν ὥς γ' ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ ῥαιδίως ἔσται ἀντέχειν ἐὰν μὴ περισσῶς τρίβηται τὸ σῶμα καθ' ἡμέραννῦν ἀναγιγνώσκω τὰ Ἀργοναυτικὰ ἀλλ' ἴσως κἀγὼ πάλιν εἰς τὰ Ξενοφῶντος βλέψω μετ' ἐκεῖνα, ἤδη μοι ἅλις τῶν μυθικῶν ἐπῶν καὶ τρεπτέον τοῖς ψιλοῖς λόγοις!ἅτε τὴν Ὀδύσσειαν κατανεγνωκὼς μηνὶ ἢ πλείον' ἐκ τοῦδε, εὖ τοῖς πρὸς ἀλλήλω λόγοις συμβαίνει μνείαν ποιεῖσθαι τοῦ «τέτλαθι δή, κραδίη· καὶ κύντερον ἄλλο ποτ' ἔτλης»ἔρρωσο!
Am I crazy or is ancient greek boring, I can finally read it and its way more boring than latin. Why do they use adverbs like kai so much?
>>25380279Its like watching in class lectures from some boring egg head professor on youtube and then they use adverbs all the time and the gimmick with kai, outon, to, etc. making up half the page on every writing gets old after a paragraph
>>25380279>>25380289Haha I had this sneaking suspicion after I learned to read the alphabet smoothly that Greek is probably a lot easier to follow if you know the words because of how much more clearly segmented the sentences are.
>>25380279How are you going to say this and not tell us what you’re actually reading in both languages?
>>25369072Whoever's in charge of the FAQ I think should probably add a section for Pali, with Warder's Introduction to Pali. Our most qualified Pali scholar advocated for it in a 2024 thread (>>22964800), in which he likewise complains of chronic health issues and expresses a desire for ordination, so we are unlikely to see him again. Any Pali enjoyers here object?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4hkHcDbt8IEuripides' 'Orestes' in Ancient Greek.
>>25381717https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM4sYJ7hdqgEuripides' 'Heracles' in Ancient Greek.
>>25371533>Arabic. It's an interesting situation where "modern standard Arabic" is just a standardized version of the classical liturgical language, and is not casually spoken in MENA countries. Golden age Islamic texts are underrated.Arabic world is intellectually destitute. I regret learning it.
>>25381486don't know about Pali myself though it does look like a good textbook from a search, I'll add itsadly given the already diminishing number of posters on 4chan as a whole we have fewer and fewer students of classical languages other than Latin and Greek
>>25380279>καί>adverbὢ πόποι, οἷον ἔειπες>>25381717>>25381731pretty cool, ought to read them first though to properly appreciate it
>>25382071Why not just watch, read, and then rewatch?
>>25381486>>25382056i mean im currently learning literary burmese (don't ask) so ill pick up pali in a year or twohonestly i dont think this site will be a thing by then with how things are looking right now
>>25382642>site will be a thing by then with how things are looking right nowWhy?
>>25381863I heard the Islamic Golden Age was all the work of Persians.
What sort of time commitment am I looking at to become even vaguely fluent with attic greek at 45 minutes a day? I've been reading Norwegian for a year or so and I'm getting a bit shot of it, need a break.
>>25382642>currently learning literary burmese (don't ask)you know we have to ask dawg, why and how?
>>25382353my Greek isn't so good as to be able to get much enjoyment from a raw listen of the representation, I'd have to read first and my backlog is bigif they acted Sophocles' Ajax though which I've read multiple times I'd watch it
>>25382820who the fuck cares retard
It’s crazy how much easier Caesar makes reading Sallust. I’m literally just reading for pleasure right now after grinding most of book 1 of DBG.
>>25383556>Bocchi memorata
>>25382820"fluent" can mean multiple things but I'd say bare minimum 1/2 years being generous with the term, with ancient languages in general it's harder to get the kind of immersion you get with modern ones to reach levels of fluency deemed reasonable to understand common speech
>>25382820>>25383774The reason “fluent” is a tough metric to compare to a modern language is because the corpus is just harder. The time to “fluency” in something like a spoken neo-latin register, or in a register with less complexity like the vulgate or the greek bible, is I think comparable to other languages. But yeah 1-2 years to be fluent in something like the bible is pretty doable if you’re focused. I know someone who is going for a PHD that said from the start of their bachelor’s studies through their master’s it took about half a decade (but again, keep in mind how most of that volume is reading dense prose instead of practicing discussing conversational topics).The problem is that Cicero or Aristotle are hard for many to read even in their own native language, so reading them “fluently” takes longer, and many simply never get to what they would consider fluent reading. Furthermore, for colloquial-register, people just don’t get enough practice volume in that type of speech. So for me, because I can pick apart difficult prose, I can understand conversational latin, but I wouldn’t be able to fluently produce it because I have never tried, and have never taken the time to study conversational phrases in detail first.
Is there a Greek equivalent of LLPSI?
>>25384078Logos LGPSI and Athenaze
>>25384078Sort of, but not quite. There's two books that call themselves LGPSI. First is pic related. Second is this unfinshed web project.https://seumasjeltzz.github.io/LinguaeGraecaePerSeIllustrata/
>>25384090>AthenazeThat's a good mention too, and I think that's used by AVN, but it's also not "per se" illustrata.
KJV English is a classical language. Prove me wrong.
>>25384359Fuck you.
What are some fun, light Greek or Latin prose texts to read? My reading partner and I spent the past year intensely reading Plato for our degree, and now that it's over we're looking for something for pure entertainment.
>>25385523Martials epigrams are nice theyre only a couple lines a piece
>>25385523Plautus
>>25371995And how was it?
>>25371995>Cyrus igitur haec ubi cognovisset, arcessivit eum, et solus cum solo locutus est: “Video te,” inquit, “Araspa, metuere me et maximo pudore adfici. Verum de his desiste; nam audio equidem deos etiam ab amore victos fuisse, et non ignoro qualia ab amore iis etiam hominibus, qui prudentissimi admodum viderentur, acciderint. Atque etiam ipse de me ipso animadverti, ita me continentem non esse, ut si cum formosis una sim, mihi neglectui sint. Quin huius ego tibi rei sum auctor; quippe qui te cum illa re inexpugnabili concluserim.” Et Araspas sermonem suscipiens, “Enimvero tu,” inquit, “Cyre, in his etiam sic te geris, ut in aliis, qui et clemens sis et delictis humanis ignoscas. Me vero ceteri homines moerore obruunt. Nam ex quo rumor de calamitate mea vulgatus est, inimici mihi insultant…”This translation of Xenophon seems way easier to follow in terms of sentence structure than Golden Age Latin. Is this because Greek’s structure tends to be more straightforward? Were Latin translations of Greek the ideal secret intermediate reader set all along?
>>25383881> IMG_7417.jpgWhat Vulgate edition is this? I've never before seen one where the punctuation isn't all kind of fucked up, whether Clementine or NV.
>>25387157Nestle-Aland
>>25386759To be more esoteric, ‘Tranni’ (not a real Latin word) should be ‘Enareis’ in this meme - from Herodotus and Hippocrates
Enareis is Greek form of the Sauromatae’s Anaraya and is rendered as “effeminates” in Francis Adams’ translations
>>25387317thank you for the constructive input, i tried looking for any translation of transgender since i was going to cut it in half for the 'tranny' effect but besides saying something like 'trans genus' which isn't right and sounds retard i decided to just default to tranni for plural trannys, i have no knowledge of latin literature so i thank you again for providing a good word to use
>>25387337They just don’t have a word for the specific concept of transgender, and Latin took loanwords all the time, so I don’t really see the need to anachronistically take some word meaning twink and try to force it on the much more specific transgender. Basically, Tranni is funny and makes sense, and I don’t find it preferable to distort the meaning of an ancient word.
>>25387312I see, thanks. I know there are parallel Greek-Latin Nestle-Alands, but the posted photo shows Latin on both pages, so I would never have guessed. Are there editions with first the entire NT in Greek, and only then entire NT again in Latin?
>>25387385Yes they have a variety of editions. I have a monolingual New Testament for Greek and one for Latin. My only complete bible in either is the Baronius press English-Latin Douay-Rheims Clementine, but it looks great too.
Is this a good Latin learning plan?I will first finish Familia Romana (I'm currently on Chapter 21) without doing exercises, memorizing anything. I will probably finish FR this summer.Then I will do Wheelock's Latin for a sort of grammar review while reading various readers (Orberg's included). I hope to finish this stage (reading and Wheelock's) in three months.After that, I will move on to Roma Aeterna and try to finish it in 4-5 months.Is this a viable plan? How should I use Wheelock's, by the way?
>>25386267good, can't complain about the Latin, I don't recall checking it and feeling like it was missing something important or being too roundabout compared to the Greek>>25386849probably a bit of both things, that is, as you say, the Greek, especially of Xenophon, being very clear and straightforward(he's kinda know as the entry point of real Greek literature a bit like Caesar is for Latin), but also the will of the translator to both stick to the text as closely as possible(while still not sounding off in Latin) and not seek excessive virtuosity by imitating fancier golden age Latin prose
>>25387680Yeah I can follow this fairly easily too. Do you know if anyone sells decent reprints of these? If I find it later I will try to remember there’s a link to a really solid POD series for the Leonine edition of Aquinas’s complete works that this priest set up.
>>25387337Enareis would be a hundred times funnier in this meme imo. They were a branch of Scythian “priestesses” who dressed and spoke as women as punishment for having erectile dysfunction/ being impotent. This class was largely composed of ex-soldiers and Hippocrates speculates it is becaue soldiers ride on horses so they have more opportunity to injure their groin than farmers and other jobs do.
>>25387353It doesn’t mean “twink” though. It was just rendered as effeminates by 19th century authors - pic related. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EnareeThey were literally what we’d consider trannies today.
>>25387697I'm not into physical books(yet) so idk sorry, but it would be nice in general though I like side by side editions like these
https://archive.org/details/beginninglatin00bars
>>25388704Will this work?
>>25387717I see your point
>>25388812what do you mean?
>>25388939Whether it will work
>>25389005fuck off
>>25389012Will it teach me Latin?
>>25389311Go back to /int/ where you belong, you can sit there and flip through your cat images and anime while masturbating furiously. You don't belong in a thread on classical languages.
>>25389366You’re mixing me up with someone else anone. Despite being told over and over you are still mushing distinct individuals into one strawman.
>>25389366>cat images>you don’t belong in a thread on classical languagesI’ve seen the catposter here for years. But I’ve only seen someone seething about him for a month or so. The cat poster actually knows classical languages. Do you?
>>25389370>>25389389Kys, defenders of trolls
ἰδού! τὰ αἰλουρίδια!πόσα 'στὶν τὰ αἰλουρίδια;ἕν, δύω, τρία....τέτταρα! καὶ τί ποιεῖ τὰ αἰλουρίδια; φιλεῖ ἄλληλα καὶ παπταίνει πανταχόσε!
>>25389311The Latin language hasn't much since 1906, so a textbook from that era should be as fine today as it was in those days. The scan looks like it's good quality. One consideration if you're studying alone is whether there is an answer key available. Unless you have the answer key, I would choose another textbook.The official /clg/ FAQ recommends the following textbooks.>- Wheelock's Latin: A most classic introductory textbook.>- Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata: Familia Romana: A genre defining textbook for those willing to approach the subject through the so called Nature Method, whose focus is on graded immersive reading, albeit without neglecting the important grammatical side of the language.>- Latin: An Intensive Course by Floyd L. Moreland & Rita M. Fleischer>- Reading Latin by Keith Sidwell & Peter JonesI only have personal experience with the first two. Wheelock's is a little lighter weight than the textbook you posted, going by the number of chapters, although that might be a deceptive method of comparison. Also Wheelock's will have more resources available online. That said, I think the method in LLPSI Familia Romana is superior. The textbook is almost entirely graded readings in Latin, with the idea of learning the grammatical rules and vocabulary directly from the text. Things stick in memory better learned this way, and you are spending your study time looking at lots of Latin examples rather than reading about grammatical rules in English.Please upvote if you found this post helpful.
>>25389389>>25389454If you go reread the prior threads he is a total beginner that got filtered by fully-parsed Caesar. I’m hoping the bullying will make him actually stick with it and become a real latinist out of spite.Anyways, I’ve been fantasizing about Hittite lately but I’m so busy I can barely get my latin reading in. I only get a few scattered chapters of Caesar but occasionally, especially on weekends, i can crank out a good 10-20 chapters of various works.
>>25389711I’m so sorry anon your response is so sincere and helpful it’s making me rethink whether jokingly responding to every textbook posted asking if a latin textbook teaches latin is actually worth it because it makes good souls like you effortpost in response to my shitposts. Mea maxima culpa.
>>25389604>>25389824Kys, retarded attention whore. Fuck off to /int/, /mlp/ or /lgbt/ where you belong.
>>25389828You're an annoying fag or woman and should fuck off from this general. Your Dr Lexus personality doesn't fit with a thread on classical languages. Go somewhere where you will feel at home, a place full of degenerates like you, I suggest /int/.
>>25389604πῶς λέγεται meow Ἑλληνιστί;
>>25390115>>25390120You cannot read Latin
>>25390506You're polluting the thread with your presence, nigger.
>>25390537>>25390537barbarum qui tamen legere latine (an vero aliquid linguis antiquis) non possit tam valde in hoc filo fremuisse non conveniet.
>>25390115Once again you are compressing half the regular posters in the general into one strawman
>>25390537Swede bro, we miss you on /lang/. Please come back and share your wisdom again.
>>25369079roland
>>25390337οὐχ οἷός τ' ἦν ἐκ τῶν ἐξήτακα λεξικῶν λόγον εὑρεῖν τῷ φθέγματι πρέποντα! οὐκ ἴσως ἄγαν ὡμίλουν τοῖς αἰλούροις οἱ Ἕλληνες ἵν' ἰδίαν λέξιν καταστήσειαν ὡς τοῖς κυσὶν(ὑλακτέω) ἢ τοῖς βουσὶν(μῡ-κάομαι) ἢ τοῖς πρόβασι(μη-κάομαι) ἢ πολλάκις γε καὶ ἐνίοις πετεινοῖςἡμῖν δ' εἴ τι πρέπει πλάσσειν βουλομένοις ταὐτῶν ὀνομάσαι, ὀνοματοποιητικῶς εἴη ἄν λέγειν μίαγμα ἢ ἄλλα παρόμοια ἢ ἴσως ἁπλῶς αἰλουρίζειν
Will it teach me Greek?
>>25391124Fortasse te docere non possit.
>>25391124>t.
>>25391178>>25391306Will it?
>>25391124It's from 1894. Obviously not.
>>25391411You're immature, annoying and contribute nothing of value. You pollute the thread. Fuck off.
>>25391411
After readings classical literature I have encountered a lot of anti semitic content. Frankly, I think it would be best for society if nobody learnt Latin or ancient Greek and their instruction should be banned as only Jew haters ever seem to care about them
>>25391471>I have encountered a lot of anti semitic content.This is deeply concerning. What authors and passages? I need to know so I can avoid. Thank you
Worthless general. There's like five people here and they're all retards.
>>25391512We’re all busy reading.
>>25391528No, you're busy fapping
>>25391563I read ~10k words today. I fapped this morning.
>>25391601Kys
>>25391631Don’t tell me… you didn’t study or read today at all?
>>25391636wanker
>>25391664Yes. And?
>>25391677Godless piece of shit, shoot yourself in the face, you're not fit for classical languages
>>25391512I tab over to the general intermittently in between chunks of Caesar to effortpoast and also piss off the sperg.
>>25391719You don't effortpost, coombrain.
>>25391725Et numquam legisti aliquid latine, pathice.
>>25391738You know how to use google translate, cool. Good thing it can be done with one hand, leaving the other hand free for fapping.
>>25391741I’m not sure how I could even get google translate to produce the word pathice. I bet you’re using it to read my posts though lol.
>>25391741Also, I read a few chapters of Caesar, an article from St. Aquinas, and 4 chapters of the book of Revelation today. What did you read in Latin anon-kun?Also, you baffle me, because you either are “merely pretending” to be retarded, or you actually have so little knowledge of Latin sentence structure that you unironically believe google translate would produce a sentence like >>25390556
>>25391941Kys wanker
the swede is funny this general has existed longer than his newfag's presence on 4chan yet he acts as the local censor lolpeople are posting cats ON 4CHAN? O TEMPORA, O MORES!
>>25391471quaedam fora linguae latinae plena judaeorum sunt. non sum alius vir scribens in hoc filo de pornographia at rogatum quod cadit sub re pornographia habeo. valde quaero latine picturas iaponicas pornographicas convertere quoniam calidissimae sunt sed non placet mihi modo verba unum ad unum convertere. praeter catullum et legendum 'latin sexual vocabulary' a j.n adams, quo debeo ire ut plus discam?
>>25392420Well, doujins are gonna have a lot of conversation. They’re comedies so you can take it with a grain of salt, but Plautus has a lot of conversational material. Also, Erasmus’s colloquia i’m told are great for this too, but it’s harder to dig through.The Wikipedia page on Latin vulgarity is full of examples and citation to specific uses. It’s probably more useful than a book since in a lot of cases these terms only have a few instances in the whole corpus so you can go there and check literally the only times the word ever appeared.For general sentence flow practice I get a lot of value from just reading more Caesar and Cicero.Neologisms can be found all over the place and it’s probably best to try to find one in existence first before making up your own.>>25391471>t. Academics after ww2
>>25392452you have my thanks, anon. i'll devote my time to reading through plautus' stuff and reading more caesar in the immediate future so i may hopefully one day beget something of merit
>>25392479I’m at least a year off from being able to write anything I’d be happy with too, maybe even 2 years depending on how busy I am. I think I’d like to get through the remainder of Caesar’s corpus, the whole of Plautus, and Cicero’s letters at least, and then probably to go spend time with Bradley’s Arnold Prose Composition to clarify problems and get some practice before trying anything.
>>25392510You've read so much, maybe you know a bit of Greek too? Do you think this book would help me learn Greek?
>>25392525Ah unfortunately I tried to read the Greek New Testament and Logos: LGPSI but unfortunately the book was bad, it didn’t teach me Greek in 5 minutes of reading over a week so unfortunately I can’t speak to Greek books. It was the book’s fault. If the book had been better I would know Greek by now. Unfortunately, Xenophon is an obscure author of questionable idiom and style. Who’s even heard of him? He’ll probably damage your Greek forever. Do not read him.
>>25392634He doesnt have questionable style hes a stone edifice
>>25392638I realize now I didn’t even read the book title correctly and discussed Xenophon instead of Herodotus, an even more obscure author of even more questionable style. Don’t read him, he could hurt your idiom/output to all 0 people you’ll speak to.
>>25392660huh?
>>25387604My best answer is that it is a good plan if you adhere to it. If you’re that lithuanian anon I bet you’re having an easier time with the inflections so maybe you’ll go faster, but often people hit a bit of a plateau around Roma Aeterna since it can be pretty difficult to get through, so you might find a lot of benefit in maintaining a healthy diet of reading more widely and varied stuff from FR onwards and working through RA over a period of time that is roughly double your estimate.
is it worth reading Ancient Greek books in translation if I will (in the future, say, 5 years from now) learn Ancient Greek anyways?
>>25369555>>25369713>>25371422Original Pharr's or the modern 4th edition? I was tempted to go for the latter as it appears to have a much clearer structure, and especially given that it has a supplement website with keys. But I took a look at the beginning exercise, and it's both insipid and incorrect.https://commons.mtholyoke.edu/hrgs/written-exercises/lesson-1/
>>25393009The 4th edition textbook isn’t messy like the website, which I don’t think is affiliated with the publisher in any way. There’s a pdf of it on annas archive if you want to check it out. I still prefer the older version however because it assumes Latin knowledge and skips elementary grammar explanations like>here’s what a declension is>here’s how pluperfect tense works
>>25393061>which I don’t think is affiliated with the publisher in any way.It's directly promoted by the 4th ed author:https://www.textkit.com/t/pharr-4th-ed/12694And her contact is at https://commons.mtholyoke.edu/hrg>There’s a pdf of it on annas archive if you want to check it out.I found only the original and Wright's editions there.>because it assumes Latin knowledgeI don't have any beyond common idioms but I'm a native speaker of another highly inflectional language (Russian). I do, however, struggle with the *peculiar* decision of splitting lessons in half, with the lesson in the beginning referring you to the back which could be make rationally all in one continuous section.
>>25369325I read classical Chinese, easier for me because I am fluent in mandarin already
>>25393009>>25393061I found this latin-annotated edition of Homer but I can't find the volume that starts at book one, or if it does at all.https://dn760100.eu.archive.org/0/items/homeriiliasgraec02home/homeriiliasgraec02home.pdfIs Pharr's Homeric Greek considered relatively thorough (enough) on teaching morphology? I'm considering pairing it as my grammar-translation book alongside using my Logos:LGPSI copy as my extensive reader, and the Greek New Testament as a reader. Is there really that much difference between Homeric forms and later Attic/Koine?
Found one that starts with liber I but it's a low quality scan.https://archive.org/details/homeriiliasgrae00clargoog/page/n16/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/details/homeriodysseagr02clargoog/page/6/mode/2upAlso one of the Oddysey from the same author. The notes are most dense at the beginning of the illiad and least dense in this volume.
>>25393125Will these make me into someone who has read the Iliad?
This almost seems like the same idea as pharr's but in an era when people still used Latin to learn Greek. They're literally explaining tenses in picrel. There's nothing new under the sun.
>>25393095>>25393095>It's directly promoted by the 4th ed author:I see, didn’t realize that. As for the pdf, just checked my history, I found it here>https://dokumen.pub/homeric-greek-a-book-for-beginners.htmlsite sketched me out a bit but it worked
>>25393009Please don't mention textbooks in this language learning thread. You're triggering the cat/anime homosexual's memories of long gone grudges and they're going to throw a tantrum while masturbating.
>>25393267>animeI'm clearly invested in the discussion, per my posts below, also I'm a different person from the cat-poster, baka. Who is really the triggered one here? baka.>>25393120>>25393125>>25393135Stop shitting up the thread, troll, baka.
>>25369079Roll
>>25393278You're the one that's constantly shitting up the thread. Kys homosexual fucking retard.
>>25392843Would it be a good idea to start another language only after Roma Aeterna?
>>25393299I figure if you're smoothly reading Roma Aeterna you're not gonna have a huge issue with interference or anything but i don't really know for sure. At that point you can read whatever you want and your Latin will basically improve no matter what with enough quality reading volume. Arguably even the post-FR stage where you're using Loeb's or whatever, basically the only essential ingredient is reading volume. You could start the Vulgate right now, considering you're already at Cap XXI of FR. Go open a gospel.>>25393294Baka
>>25393313I wanted to read the Vulgate (with a dictionary and grammar reference), but couldn't find a PDF of it with marked vowel lengths. I found this on Amazon https://www.timothyalee.com/en-GB/isbn/978-1-83651-234-9, but it's pretty expensive. Unfortunately, no one has bothered to scan it yet.
>>25393286Quae autem scribo vobis, ecce coram Deo, quia non mentior. >Mihi nomen Paulus est, sum evangelizator,>a me Evangelium est evangelizatum.>Non ab homine accepi id quod fabulavi,>ego illud didici per revelationem.>Ego quondam erat ego fatuus Iudaeus,>supra modum persequebar viros Dei bonos.>Ego Iudaeissimus inter greges Iudaeos,>aemulans traditiones paternas Iudaeas.
>>25393376Mihi nomen Carlos est, onions ArgentineanoLudus favoritus est el Fifa con el MessiNon est enim verum quod tu dicis de te ipsumDocuit me Reddit que los angelos son mythos
>>25393376Sovl>>25393404Kek>>25393323You’re gonna have to get used to non-macronized text unfortunately.
>>25369072Is there any non LARP reason to learn either of these languages?
>>25393484The words have better lexical coding than english words
>>25393484Because you want to immerse yourself into a culture and enjoy their works of literature more fully than you ever could with a translation
>>25393484Come on thats offensive, dont you read books? or are you in the CIA taking regular business trips to china india japan
>>25393498Why are you stepping on my balls? My point was fine enough
>>25393484It substantially improves your reading ability in formal English and your background knowledge in the humanities. You can’t really qualify as “well read” without at least a little bit of Latin.>>25393498Oh yeah and they have better literature than most modern langs.
>>25393484Hes going to get a job communicating with shipping agents in china, I learned latin to an advanced level in 4 months
>>25393484Study Latin to understand general grammar
Is this good?
>>25393896Nope it's shitI was in a group which tried it and it was utterly worthless, we just went back to LLPSI and then the vulgate and the latin fathers
>>25393899Substantiate your claim.
>>25393896I have not heard good things about it but also it seems like it’s intended almost like some kind of supplement to LLPSI, however there are a few other preexisting resources for getting into ecclesiastical Latin and one can pretty quickly dive into the vulgate itself just using a book like LLPSI first. I personally used Latin by the Natural Method Volume 1 as an ecclesiastical supplement to LLPSI, which is a expressly intended to prime someone for reading genesis and the gospels ASAP (no one knows this because no one ever bothers to read the teacher’s guide).Volume 2 is also quite good and is intended to build the student up to broader patristic and classical reading, with volume 3 literally just being extensive selections of St. Augustine, Cicero, and Seneca.>>25393900He doesn’t need to because these posts are all kind of redundant anyways. All the textbooks would work if people actually adhere to them and enjoy the method. Self-study is much looser than academics and the lack of intellectual independence astounds me.
>>25393009OP Pharr commenter here, Im using the 4th edition and find it good. Only problem is trust me, it does not have any complete supplement keys. The one you are linking is not accurate (even though the author references it) to the actual exercises in the book. I can link you more accurate ones but none exist that are complete.
>>25393499Yeah, but there's more than enough in English to last me a lifetime.>>25393498Okay, but then wouldn't French or German be better?>>25393597I'm intrigued: elaborate on this
>>25394449>wouldn't French or German be better?No. Latin has more interesting reading>Yeah, but there's more than enough in English to last me a lifetime.Reading Latin substantially improved my ease of reading, enjoyment, and appreciation of virtually all formal/literary English, especially anything written before 1950. The authors before WW2 were so steeped in a Latin-influenced style that it is inescapable even if the individual author did not themselves know Latin. Shakespeare is extremely Latin-influenced. Milton, Gibbon, any poets really, etc. Formal documents, essays, founding fathers, all become far easier to read. It’s not just a vocab thing, your grasp on the more complex and fluid word order and sentence structure of traditional literary English substantially improves.
>>25394463I don't really have issues parsing older texts, but I guess I lack the perspective to know what I'm missing with regard to that. I suppose I've always been exceptionally non-receptive to and bad at poetry tho.
>>25394484>I don't really have issues parsing older texts, but I guess I lack the perspective to know what I'm missing with regard to that.I was the same. Latin revealed that.>I suppose I've always been exceptionally non-receptive to and bad at poetry tho.I thought the same and Latin fixed that.
>>25394494I kind of feel like I got that huge "AHA!" moment that opened up my ability to fluidly parse windier and less conventionally modern syntax at some point during the process of learning German IMO, but maybe that's the equivalent of taking an addy and thinking you've done a line of coke...Intrigued by the poetry note, because I've somewhat recently outgrown my autistic ass sour grapes attitude about it and now kind of wish I were the sort of person who could appreciate it.
>>25394512>outgrown my autistic ass sour grapes attitude about it and now kind of wish I were the sort of person who could appreciate it.Yeah I had that transformation as I was getting into Latin, and then I found I could appreciate it a lot better anyways when I went and revisited it.
>>25394449>I'm intrigued: elaborate on thishttps://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/530779621/#530780108
>>25393242>>https://dokumen.pub/homeric-greek-a-book-for-beginners.htmlIt returns 502 error. Could you please upload it to some file server?>>25394193Oh, too bad.>I can link you more accurate ones but none exist that are complete.It would be great!
>>25394836https://www.swiss transfer (dot)com/d/c372f33a-6a43-4c24-b4f1-b80956ef1132Could whoever runs the mega upload it there as well?
>>25394836>>25394897What's wrong with the one I posted here?>>25369713
>>25394907It's also herehttps://archive.org/details/homericgreekbook0000unse
>>25394907That’s Pharr’s original edition. I uploaded the 4th edition which is almost the same with regard to content, but it has cleaner formatting and includes explanations within each chapter instead of directing you to the end of the book by index reference
>>25394695The spainanon makes a good point, but the way OP acted is a good argument that this kind of thing is for fags.
>>25394932OP posted a screenshot from Comenius so whatever he says is presumably correct. No I won't bother to read the thread.
>>25394932Stay out of classical languages. It's not for you.
Okay, having read the thread, everything OP said is correct except that there is no such thing as "your" language. English is in my brain on a fundamental level. English was not imparted to me by a teacher but from my Father and Mother speaking to me from birth onwards. That perspective of his probably results from being a Swede, where his native lang is more and more subsumed by English. That being said his post style and tendency to respond to everyone in the thread by calling them coomers tells me he's the guy who seethes in here all the time. If he is the same person, then he's probably posting the first page of the Orbis Pictus because that's the stage his Latin is currently at. There's no shame in that so long as he's humble about it and sticks with it, but I know that is difficult for him.But Comenius is based.
>>25394925>143MB
>>25394951That Swedish schizophrenic guy has totally taken over and ruined a lot of this board. He makes all the autodidact and language threads and random English hate threads. His argumentation is as nonsensical as it was months ago
>>25394951>English is in my brainClearly
>>25395146Rent free
Are there any recent complete guides or references for pronunciation of Latin?
>>25395195Just read the wikipedia article and makes sure you understand every technical term they use
>>25395218>>25395226>>25395229I don't understand why I'm being trolled when I literally just asked for a reference.
Let's make up Latin phrases that don't make sense in Latin, only in English.Quassa tuam praedam.
>>25395159I have the privilege of using my forefathers’ tongue in all my interactions from Canterbury to Cathay and the choice to learn other languages as a luxury. The sneering ESL cannot say the same, which produces his schizophrenic relationship where he at once despises koine yet uses it more frequently than his own forefathers’ tongue. Perhaps, had his ancestors been made of sterner stuff, I might need to condescend to his language. But alas, I am the scion of a globetrotting race, whose venerable houses turned the vast expanse of Mother Earth into their playground. In other words, were I Swedish, I’d hate me too!
>>25395195>>25395233Conversational Latin for Oral Proficiency by Traupman has a pronunciation guide for reconstructed classical and ecclesiastical style if you search the pdf. Broadly speaking, Latin pronunciation is very simple and not worth getting too hung up on. 5 vowels, different perhaps slightly in quantity between long and short, but in practice only really different in length for most, assuming they observe the difference at all, and a few dipthongs and consonants. Everything besides that is prosody and aesthetic taste or reconstruction autism. I didn’t see the posts you are responding to but can only assume it is the ESLFL Swede sperging out. >ESLFL (English as a Second Language as a First Language)
>>25395342>>>/wsg/6193775
>>25395463Why are you linking to a post on another board instead of posting the reaction image yourself retard. Lurk moar.
>>25395477Linking to /wsg/ is common because it allows webm with sound. A reaction image could have worked, but it wouldn't have been the same without the laugh track.
>>25395195It's a language for reading and writing, who cares.
>>25393061>There’s a pdf of it on annasNo
>>25395495tsmt
>>25394951Kys coomerhttps://www.bitchute.com/video/pbKnyiu3MhdXtotal coomer death
>>25394897You're amazing, thanks!
>>25395776Fuck off fag/woman
>143 MB pdfRetard
>>25394836here is an actual good Pharr key that is sadly unfinished https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8zg0WwJ81M2OU9mTnNWT2p0STg/edit?pli=1&resourcekey=0-UOHRpWd3JFkwhDtCufsJmw
I'm incredibly annoyed by the pronunciation guide in Pharr, it's unusable. For the love of God I don't understand why Anglos insist of approximating clear-cut monophthongs in the target language as English diphthongs like they do here. Are students expected to say /ou/ and /ei/ instead of /o/ and /e/? How do they interpret these instructions?Even if they do approximate them with English monophthongs, they do this in the most retarded way possible by approximating omicron and omega never specifying what English variety they are referencing to. As far as I'm concerned, they are talking about RP where the given English example have exactly the same vowel quality and length. This is especially annoying given that in the introduction the author specifically mentions several times the importance of meter in Greek prosody. And the chef's kiss is how Debnar approximated ypsilon as /u/ instead of /y/. Although Pharr's original explanation of Greek letters is just as bad, at least he knew better and referenced the correct French u-sound. Which is wild given that Debnar does reference a few French words as pronunciation cues anyway.>>25395789>sees an image of a beautiful youth>immediately thinks of fags and womenMaybe you're a fag, ever think about that?>>25395804Thanks! Was this complied by a student who took Ancient Greek classes?
>>25395810Stfu homo/woman. Go to degen boards where you belong.
>>25395810>Are students expected to say /ou/ and /ei/ instead of /o/ and /e/?While “ou” in “ought” is technically a dipthong, the guide is probably suggesting a short pronunciation of it as most Americans would use in daily speech, similar to “office”. What’s baffling is that for omega the restored pronunciation uses “saw”, which in most American dialects is identical to “ought”. All the other issues I agree with you. If I had to guess, they think pronunciation is a burden for the average American student and don’t want to scare him away from classical languages forever (especially when this might be his first foreign language). Thus you get simplifications like vowel approximations, /y/ entirely omitted, etc. This is all supported by listening to the recitations on the companion site, which are very… lets say lax
I know I’m improving because when I hit an extensive chunk of oratio obliqua and speeches in Caesar I am crestfallen, and I am overjoyed when I get through that to geography, ethnography, or battles/action, because now that means parts of Caesar are easy and parts are hard instead of it all just being hard.
Lovely medievals writing lovely latin.
>>25395810You're using the fantastical Angloid pronunciation scheme, don't expect anything but inanity.The modern Greek pronunciation is all you ever need and you'll learn it in a day rather than wasting your time debating the pronunciation.
>>25396370>The modern Greek pronunciation>Pronounce every digraph except for ou as iMarvelous system (no).
Just use the Lucian pronunciation system
>>25396270What book is this?
>>25396537Ah yes, the pronunciation system created by a youtuber totally coincidentally also going by the name Lucius.
Have any of you ever read the doctoral dissertations of Kant, Schelling, Hegel, etc? How is their Latin?
>>25396989>>25396989
