>>25370069
Neoliberalism saw the neutering and slow death of
>unions and organised labour
>local community
>natoinal and local culture
>non commerical arts
>any legitamate attempt at any real third way-ism
this was done through mass migration which weakens community ties and attempts at organised labour, supporting culture war shitflinging, sending jobs overseas + deindustrialisation and empowerment of goverment surveilence capicity (patriot act, 2000 terroism act, snowden files, ect)
all of this had lead to a century where the masses are no longer able to actually put forward any alternative to neoliberal society, let alone liberal democracy. see the so called gen z (revolutions) of Nepal & Bangladesh where the people rioted then some nobody from the rulling regime/party promises to be more like the west or something and then some centre right party gets elected where nothing changes except the most visable tyrants flee elsewhere

compare that to the 1800s or even the 60s where it was clear if the state did not intervene on the side of capital, workers would naturally put political power into the community (the June Days in france for example)
one doesnt need to be marxist to recognise the class dynamics here, Debenoist certainly isnt

also pls recommened any other good books i mightve missed for the op

File: World_on_Fire,_first_edition.jpg (46 KB, 260x389)

46 KB JPG

Stumbled upon this one while searching around for the term "liberal democracy".

Why would we study marxoid fanfiction rather than the foundational works of neoliberalism?

Peter Dale Scott is a joke author. He doesn't know many deep things at all from the work I read... not exactly a connected knower.

>>25370150
amy chua is a front page liberal on the level of malcolm gladwell or steven pinker. You read her books to maybe be shocked by a few criticisms before quickly being comforted by her copes that the end of history wins in the end

File: open-borders-cover.jpg (693 KB, 1977x2560)

693 KB JPG

>>25370162
>line go up makes world gooder
There, I just summed up all neoliberal "thought" in one sentence. If you really insist you can read "masterpieces" like pic related but honestly who wants to put themselves through that?
Even "serious" books like The Open Society crumble like wet tissue paper when you apply the slightest bit of logic to them. Neoliberalism is not so much an ideology as it is a religion that requires you to believe in pipe dreams like the paradox of tolerance or that the free market produces the best results for everyone.
You're much better off reading Marxist critique than any neoliberal drivel.

>>25370239
Caplan is a truly cringe author once you look into his body of works. To him democracy failed... because people don't believe in rationally optimal market behavior like a lolbert would. I'm sure his open borders work is terrible

Anything written post epstein files

>>25370069
I hate Fisher so fucking much. shant be reading him.

>>25370081
the dark enlightenment - nick land

>>25370344
why hes great

>>25370239
>society only needs enough trust for my credit card to work
wonderful book

>>25370239
>There, I just summed up all neoliberal "thought" in one sentence.
What's all the marxoid writing about then if it's so simple? You can refute what you wrote in a paragraph.
>Neoliberalism is not so much an ideology as it is a religion that requires you to believe in pipe dreams like the paradox of tolerance
What caused you to believe this

File: checkmate anarchists.png (638 KB, 1600x1348)

638 KB PNG

>>25370670
imo, neoliberalism is pretty much was is discussed above >>25370078, a global project by the capitalist classes at liquidating the primary methods that the working, rural and middle classes used to resist and threaten them. it is currently undergoing a slow death agony due to changing economic conditions (ai and devloping countries actually getting becoming developed) and irresolveable geopolitical priorities (isreal and US goals, EU and Russia, China and oceania, ect)
>>25370199
best introductory conspiracy text thats not too long though, and primes readers to understand how ruthless and organised capital can be
>>25370261
no because they focus on the "YIKES, FREAKY FREAKS DOING LE SEX CRIMES" rather than the actual intellegince and political connections angel.

Whitney Webbs "One Nation Under Blackmail" came out '22 and it pretty much says all thats really needed for a good enough picture

File: $_57.jpg (35 KB, 333x500)

35 KB JPG

>>25371092
People read authors who opine on topics like "deep politics" because they believe they know something or are insiders. That's what I expected from Dale based on his diplomatic bonafides. Turns out he was a mediocre and shortlived diplomat and a career leftist parasite, and that's the only sourcebank he uses for his work. I could have written the American Deep State myself, it is nothing more than the trendy contrarian skepticism common during the afghanistan-Iraq war packaged as a supposedly authoritative text

>>25370239
>Neoliberalism is not so much an ideology as it is a religion that requires you to believe in pipe dreams
Clearly you did not read the Sublime Object of Ideology

>>25371092
>changing the system from within
>pic includes Gorbychev, who failed and spawned an oligarchic capitalist dystopia
>the other picrel is Deng, who created an oligarchic corporate surveillance state
Wow, I am astounded by your ideas

>>25371238
sorry to tell you but the vast majority of normies will need to be coddled with "see even this academic sees theres a deep state", and its fine, thank to guys like him (and also just directly Scott) you have absorbed enough of their ideas that you could write your own book on it
>>25371268
nice bait, otherwise please see some more ironic memes

>>25371301
NTA. You write like a retard and it's obvious you have autism.

>>25371301
Have you read that book? I read it. It's one of those current topical issues books, where newsline trends of the day are discussed with reference to various elite hypocrisies. Absolutely no big picture, "deep" politics are discussed and I doubt Peter had much access whatsoever to his supposed portrait of the american deep state.

It does not hold up to the passage of time. The name given to the book is a misnomer, it ought to be "essays criticizing the conduct of the united states government during the war on terror"

>>25370078
gen Z here, born into a world where capitalist realism is life itself. So what ARE the alternatives to neoliberalism? Does this necessarily imply alternatives to capitalism?

I tried searching but I can find only critique and the echoed bleatings of prior social domestication projects like nationalism and religion. Is there actually any substance to the dream of a society that works For The People or whatever the theoretical unstated desire of all these critics actually is, or has humanism itself always been nothing more than a pipe dream of sheltered academics? And if that's true, again, what's the alternative?

>>25372296
the alternatives are literally anything else.

>>25372327
such as?

>>25372342
America if we all fucking vote and stop electing goddamn fucking idiots.

>>25371092
>imo, neoliberalism is pretty much was is discussed above
???

>>25372296
Humanism wasn't so much a pipe dream as a (doomed) subconscious effort to smuggle Christian agape outside of Christianity. It relies on a cultural substrate of Christianity to exist, and tempts people into it with a kind of "have your cake and eat it too" proposition. But it cannot recreate those consitions. This explains why it arose when it did, why it worked so well for so long, and why it is dying without recourse now.

It's nice to be nice to people regardless though. All I'm saying is that the 17th-19th century ideas are all sterile and moribund now. I'm not happy about it, even though it validates some of my other beliefs.

>>25372351
Very telling that your first thought is a pretend situation

>>25372296
neoliberalism simply describes the period of tax cuts and war on labor that happened in response to stagflation, which was stagnation and high inflation. It later became an omega level leftist boogeyman because it describes exactly when they lost. The opposite is simply sponsoring union wage increases and raising social benefits. This has nothing to actually do with anticapitalism at all

>>25372377
>The opposite is simply sponsoring union wage increases and raising social benefits
So actual national—in all senses of the word—suicide? I guess I'm a neoliberal then.

>>25372382
>Investing in the nation is national suicide
Explain your thinking.

>>25372382
that isn't national suicide at all. But your redditard cover as a participant on one of those gay neoliberal circlejerks is now blown

>>25372377
DESU this was my assumption from the beginning, I just wanted to give the pseudo-Marxists a fair chance to explain themselves. You saw how that went.

>>25372368
You're right, it was silly of me to not realize my categorization of everything "else" as remnants of dead or dying ideologies didn't also apply to humanism.
So where does that leave us? Are we doomed to enjoy our rights while they last and slip quietly into the wage matrix? (Or the extermination matrix depending on how AI scales)

File: Stalin's prophecy.jpg (95 KB, 850x400)

95 KB JPG

>>25372377
>The opposite is simply sponsoring union wage increases and raising social benefits. This has nothing to actually do with anticapitalism at all
Yeah because that turned out so well right?
Rather than do a full-on revolution the western working-class struck a bargain with capital that worked well enough from 1945 to 1973. After that the bourgeoisie realized it had the perfect excuse to throw away the postwar concensus and enact neoliberalism unimpeded.
The results are obvious to anyone with eyes today.
The western working-class was naïve beyond all reason. Have they never read Faust? You never make deals with the devil because he'll always fuck you over in the end.
And now there's no eastern bloc to help them. Truly the bad end timeline

>>25372413
the western working class has it pretty good though?

>>25372404
public services is code for need mo money for dem programs. A lot of state sponsored activist people in my country had to actually go to work again rather than just be professional parasites

>>25372413
The western working class probably got the best deal in human history. Especially when you consider what happened in the east when that revolution you're discussing actually happened

File: The Great Leveler 2.png (273 KB, 1070x876)

273 KB PNG

>>25372424
>Especially when you consider what happened in the east when that revolution you're discussing actually happened
They got to live in bonafide worker's utopias where education, healthcare and housing were free or highly affordable and employment was guaranteed. This had the added effect that it afforded the western working classes unusually favorable bargaining positions as the bourgeois parasites knew full well that if they didn't make concessions they risked losing everything in a revolution backed by the world's second superpower.
>>25372421
Yeah, being unable to afford groceries or ever buying a home, being crushed by student debt, being unable to find a job because they've all been outsourced to China or AI and dying deaths of despair.
Truly the working class is living it up.

>>25372445
>working class
>student debt
?

>>253724
there was definitely a reason why numerous people defected to the west but relatively few defected east. It's because the consumer economy was shit. Also the notion that the workers ran the USSR is laughably false and everyone knew it as such

>>25372452
The children of the proletariat realized they couldn't get a job at the factory like dad and decided to get themselves an education.
Tuition is expensive so they had to take out student loans, loans they'd have to pay back some day. Seeing the state of the job market it'll be many years before they can pay it all back, meaning they'll be burdened with debt for years if not decades to come.
Such is life in capitalist society.

>>25372371
All rebellions are built on hope.

>>25372546
consume less media

>>25372238
this just boils down to an aesthetic difference. any decent conspiracist reqs this book so it has merits while I still think it's pretty good both in writing and a general intro
>>25372296
imo, the solution would be a practical socialism stripped of its resentment, retarded utopianism (like a command economy) and moralism to just being ecomonic real politik, and for society to become more conservative in its habits and indulgences. im not saying we need to become dirt poor to RVTRN to a goodlife but capitalism has been selling back to humanity its worst traits for nearly a century
>>25372327
this too. id be willing to vote for Mussolini if he was an option as opposed to the austerity leftists and austerity right and far rightists

>>25372666
austerity leftists is a myth

File: 3espjj71-green-1200x831-2(...).jpg (133 KB, 1200x831)

133 KB JPG

>>25372668

>>25372377
>>25372404
>omega level leftist boogeyman
kind of true but anyone whose series acknowledges that there was a real geopolitical, economic and just zeitgeist change from the late 70s to now that isnt explainable solely by coping of commies. any solution to neoliberalism which doesnt state closed borders is pure cope too

File: eaea9dec-f959-4906-b4d8-a(...).gif (2.15 MB, 400x300)

2.15 MB GIF

>>25372671
>mfw I look at the green party's deformed version of the globe in its logo with it's stretched, shrunk and distorted coastlines

>>25372238
if you have other book recs (assuming that youre not the Amy Chua guy), go ahead and post them, i genuinely have no beef with you mate.
(also forgot to put op in namefield in last reply)

>>25372679
i just grabbed the second image off of image search, actually pretty good when you mention it. the Polanski hopeium is almost as annoying as the starmer hopeium 2 years ago.

what pissed me off was seeing a slop channel talking about "why britain is le unfixable" absolutely shit on Polsk (and the greens) for even just mildly suggesting MMT with hysterics about how itll crash the economy. Nearly every british tuber is a complete retarded in some fatal way

>>25370078
>this was done through mass migration which weakens community
Funny how "immigration weakens community" and then America became the greatest super power on earth while European powers and Arabian countries became third world shitholes sponsored by the multicultural melting pot. Really makes you think.

>>25372687
because the "melting pot" was 99% you stupid fag

>>25372690
Embarrassing response. Take a you I guess.

File: US_Real_Wage_Growth_SITE-(...).jpg (273 KB, 1200x1565)

273 KB JPG

>>25372687
you forgot
>and attempts at organised labour
faggot. it is undisputable that mass migration has kept real income and wages down for decades whilst also funneling numerous proles into do nothing populist parties like AfD, republicans and Reform/restore (not to mentioning keeping developing countries shit by hemorrhaging their workers and youth)

the reasons the US is on top of the world and why the living conditioned are shit might be corrected, dumbass

>>25372692
you know what I meant and we're doing it again

>>25372700
Organized labor already existed on America in great quantities and the only way it got fucked in the ass was when Thatcherism and Reaganism destroyed the entire economy in the 80s. Which is something dumb tankies and fascists always fail to mention for some weird reason. Before and after that America received many waves of immigrants and that slowly incorporated into its culture, even "conservative" presidents handed out amnesties to immigrants and citizenship. That's how the entire country became a powerhouse instead of shithole populated by rednecks. If you love racial supremacy so much you and billionaries would move to redneck racist town #345945 instead of New York or Los Angeles and many of the cultural melting pots cities with all the cool shit and nice business. Immigrants are both consumers and workers. And nothing of this is special to America btw, Russia/USSR, China, Brazil are some examples who absorbed different cultures and they're their biggest players for a reason.
>AfD
Ok so you're a eurokek that explains a lot. The problem with europeans is that they want to play both as the nationalistic empire who rapes the inferior races, then invites them in the country, then treats them like shit, then say they're welcome, then say they're not welcome and we should expel them all... Your ruling class can't pick a lane. Europeans like to pretend they're super welcoming and better than Americans, but Americans didn't create nazi Germany. If you want to play racial superiority prepare to become a racial "superior" economy, i.e. a shithole.

>>25372728
NTA but just joining to state that you are clearly an isolated American. There is no comparison when it comes to the migration you had, with very strict enforcement on integration (no one else is pledging to flags in their daily life), peppered over 150 years, with the neoliberal mass migration of the past 40 years.

>>25372728
I genuinely can't tell if you are baiting me or if your actually just too stupid to understand my point. you know im actually a second gen immigrant and im not pro ethno states or whatever the fuck, im just being realistic what effects immigration has and that it is interest of anyone against the current neolib hegemony to oppose it whether they are supremeist or socialist. im certainly not in favour of racism or getting attacked by bigots but im also not going to act like white supremecy seriously matters in any wider sense.

>china has the heikou system which is literally internal migrants labour so wages dont rise and scare off foreign corps
>russia is the same as the US and has increasingly relied on migrants from eastern Europe and central Asia (but now just latter cus of war)
>brazil has migration to it but is mainly gaining not very dramatic growth due to US trying to make latin America the global factory and not Asia + them starting to professionally use their resources

>>25372687
There are 3 times as many immigrants in NYC alone than the entirety of China, the next leader of the world.

>>25371262
>we do not believe it, yet we do it anyway

it's an abstract kind of hell

>>25372728
If the pre-Ellis Island Americans were all destitute retarded racist rednecks then the Ellis Islanders were fools to assimilate at all. They should have liquidated the entire rural population after securing control of the major coastal cities and made Yiddish the national language.

>>25373128
You being a second gen immigrant is actually irrelevant. Many immigrants or sons of immigrants are actually racists shithead opposed to immigration, and many of them participate in shit like ICE or support massive deportations. They entered the country with generous conditions like asylum seeking or working offers and now want to pull the ladder behind them because they don't want their position to be threatened. Even nazis had jews working for them, they only realize their mistake when it bites them in the ass like all the minorities who went racists on the USA just to get sent to a concentration camp by Trump and their TPSs removed.

>>25373156
And yet more people would prefer to live in New York rather than China. Funny how that works.

File: 80215 - soybooru.com - bu(...).png (136 KB, 615x680)

136 KB PNG

>>25373317
sure, however if you actually werent dumb you'd notice that I am opposed to mass migration for non racist or retarded reasons which is based on capitals exploitation of mass migration to keep third world poor and to weaken organised labour in the first, which is also given on my having my view and still shitting on the populist anti immigrant parties

Bump

>>25374877
>non racist or retarded reasons
you're repeating the same racist/fascist bullshit of muh we're full and muh hurting the economy that is not supported by evidence

>>25375755
<3 preciate it, but ill start up the second (or i guess first) thread next tuesday. pretty good for a trial run imo

File: 17073 - bait hook poster.jpg (565 KB, 1490x980)

565 KB JPG

>>25375789
weak bait or malicously missing forest for the trees. come back to me when you read about the trade union scene in nigeria

File: Portrait_of_Girolamo_Savo(...).jpg (26 KB, 250x282)

26 KB JPG

>>25372296
Constructing the Republic of Virtue as the Ark of God. I suggest D.C. Schindler first, particularly Freedom From Reality: The Diabolical Nature of Modern Liberty and his short book on Aquinas and the polis.

Dante's De Monarchia (and the Commedia of course) and John of Salisbury are also key.

File: images - 2026-06-07T070830.839.jpg (32 KB, 364x549)

32 KB JPG

>>25375841
Oh, and Salvanorla himself of course.

Pic related is decent but a little too idealistic on small government and the appeals to US history are quite weak.