Summer Goth Edition>Previous: >>25374043>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs):https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/4rAmSZxb>Archive:https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg>Goodreads:https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg>Thread question:What got you into reading SFF?
What are good fantasy series that focus more about exploration of strange places and weird animals than plot shittery?
>>25381297Anything written before WW1.
>>25381275I did it, anons. After years of writing poetry and working on other projects in another language, I came back to sci-fi. I'm writing several short stories from my universe and I'm thinking of publishing them online on something like substack/royalroad/space battles for people to just read. Any other places I should upload the stories to when they're done?I made an interactive star chart site for one section of the galaxy where the stories happen and I am going to upload the texts there as well, but it feels like it would be hard for people to find the whole project organically, so I'm opting for forums and the like.Also, where would I go to get some feedback on my prose (I'm rusty) and potentially find some beta readers?
The most frustrating thing about the change in sensibilities between old sci-fi and today isn't anything to do with scientific principles or our understanding of the universe or technology or any of that shit, it's how infuriatingly obstinate old sci-fi was about letting human men fug alien women, especially cat ones.
I hate how fantasy got spliced with an inherent sense of flanderized unreality and grandiosity creep, where wands and grails just pour out of every cupboard. It's worse than the bad trends that will pass on their own, like millennial ironyfagging, but the former are probably baked into culture now. Litrpg-zation through progressive cutting off of the historical knowledge root and replacing it with former iteration of more and more ignorant fantasy. I don't actually think litrpg is lazy, not lazier than standard lazy fantasy. I think it's safe for the author and recognizable to the reader, which makes it safer, still. But it's a Irish giant elk-like dead end. Eventually, this trend will render the genre so fucked, it'll collapse on itself without much external pressure at all.I wanna fight that, fuck the referentially-inbred, WoW-like schlock worlds and fuck the lazy power fantasies. There needs to be hay in the boots and the boots can't look like Air Justninans. They're a single surface of goat leather and they have a texture of a crumpled paper bag and that's good, actually. I will read monographies on Neo-Assyrian sandals, if that is what it takes. I refuse this chopped fantasy funnel steering us towards the reefs and so should you, as an author or reader or both.Thanks for reading my ESL blogpost.
>>25381297'A natural history of dragons' is about a 1800s woman wannabe naturalist who goes on an expedition to some foreign mountain nation. Dragons are treated like just another animal in the book. Not a magical creature. Unfortunately it's a bit too woman coded
>>25381669read less high fantasy, anon
>>25381780"High" in high fantasy just means the world is entirely different than ours. Really. I don't even think we have a term for tryhard fantasy, besides epic, which isn't an exact fit for this, even as it keeps self-amplifying over the years.
>read The Legend of Luther Arkwright>introduction by Adrian TchaikovskyYawn.
>>25381896>reading introductionsI sure hope you don't do this, anons.
>>25381959Only after reading the book they introduce.
so which thread?
>>25382022The one that came fucking hours before the other one. Pic unrelated.
>>25381669what books are actually like this?
>>25381297Most of the works of Clark Ashton Smith, Jack Vance, Michael Shea.
Any Interzone readers? (British fantasy and science fiction short story magazine. Being a poorfag and looking for the latest issues released on their patreon.>internet archiveGot it all.
>>25382088Meh, SF stopped being interesting after the 20th century ended.
>>25382088funny I was actually just thinking of subscribing
>>25382040yeah go home you whiny dog baby
>>25381275slut glasses
>>25381275What's something with a female character who seems scary and dangerous but is actually chill when you get to know her? I hate myself for this, but that stupid manga plot of the hero finding out the evil demon sorceress or whatever is actually pretty nice is a favorite of mine.
>>25382292The Black Company has The Lady. The sorcererous wife of an ancient tyrant returned to life to build her dread empire once more.
>>25381485Agreed. HMOFA or bust
Writing a character like this as your introduction...raises a flag
I started reading Azimov's foundation, and just a question, because they say 50 years after they land on Terminus the periphery of the empire has lost atomic power. But it seems like that is a rather short time to lose such technology. Is it supposed to imply the periphery was in major decline even before the foundation was established?
>>25382103Same. One of those "I've ripped off everything you've released for the last 45 years, have a dollar one me..." things. But not convinced.Same with "heavy metal magazine" actually. Missing the latest 4-5.
>>25381485>Man-Kzin Wars>Female Kzin isn't a mindless, stationary brood hog kept inside for the sole purposes of breeding ????
>>25382328Subhuman fuckwit trash
>>25382328Jesus Christ could you wait a couple fucking chapters at least before shitting up the general. You're bitching about the literary equivalent of a cold open.
>>25382328Narcissistic, selfish, can't read the room autistic faggot is back... yaaaaay....
>>25382328You're easily the single most autistic person I've ever come across on this website. Congratulations. Your complete and total lack of self-awareness is truly a thing to behold.The way you "read" and discuss genre fiction is absolutely alien.
>>25382328Yeah and it doesn't get any better. You should find somthing else to read. Ive heard good things about bakker.
>>25382470You're responding to bakkerspammer.. this is just his new shtick.
>>25382470>Ive heard good things about bakker.I've already read bakker. He sparked my critical eye
I have no idea why everybody is so mad at my post anyway, I barely saud anything and didn't even spam
>>25382481We don't want (You) here.
>>25382292You want the Morgaine Cycle for sure.tldr, an extremely powerful and terrifying woman is questing from planet to planet via 'gates' and closes them behind her. She has incredible weapons and knowledge and is willing to do or say literally anything to fulfill her mission; if need be she will destroy the entire planet if it means the gate can be shut.She encounters by chance an honor-autist warrior who binds himself to her cause. While he is the servant, his morality and mortal nature begins to have a profound impact on the women and their relationship. Chill is not the word to describe Morgaine, but she is kind, funny, and immensely emotional in ways that aren't at all apparent until the male MC worms his way into her heart.It's excellent in general and one of my favorite fantasy romance stories. It's a very slow burn though, but desu that's preferable to the opposite.
>>25382481Take it to reddit you obsessive cocksucker.
>>25382328every night when i was a kid my dad would go on his laptop, drink an entire 12 pack of the cheapest beer he could find at Shaw's, and make us watch a movie. Every 15-20 minutes he'd look up from his laptop and say something to the effect of "wow this movie is really bad and confusing"he'd then fall asleep in his chairi was a kid so i didn't get the real purpose of these strange statements. much later i realized this was his attempt to cover up the fact he wasn't watching paying any attention. he thought so little of me, and himself, that he figured vague, directionless criticism was a reasonable facsimile of someone engaging with a moviei think of him a lot whenever i see your posts
>>25382500troll.
To the other anon who said david gemmel was not a complete cuck simp.... you were wrong. this guy definitely has a thing for cuckholdry. He mentions it constantly and for fucks sake is the second book in a row one of the main characters is made a cuckthis line says it all.“But you know, Angel. You know now that she has something to live for. But she will need help. There are few men strong enough to take on the burden of another man’s child.”
>>25382486the power of D
>>25382509You realize everyone here actively despises you and your posts, yes?
>>25382369Yes the whole human "empire" was in free fall which is why the foundation needed to be created in the first place
>>25382369If you had started with the prequel books you'd know that the empire has been in active decline even when Hari started the Foundation.
>>25382486This'll be the first book I read on my new Kobo.
>>25382315I don't think the Lady is really chill as much as she's Lawful Evil compared to the Dominator's Chaotic Evil. She only evens out once plot developments force her out of being THE biggest powerhouse on the continent, if not the world.
Thinking about reading this one next
>>25382449the protagonist in that story lands on a world where the females have been kept in stasis from before they were bred into retardation, he gets extremely close to one essentially marrying her then happily cucks himself at the end by letting her get with one of the males and listens to them fucking at the end like a good little castrated slave cuck
>>25382663Why would you read such a story to completion?
>>25382486It's like one of my Japanese animes!
>>25382040>picI find it baffling that people try to push the bird dinosaur shit just because a few of them could be vaguely associated with raptors.
>>25382500At least your dad wasn't doing this so he could feel (wrongfully) smarter than everyone in the room, like a certain someone.
>>25382523>If you had started with the prequel books you'd be a faggotFixed.>>25382741Cherryh is a lesbian after all.
>>25382511>this guy definitely has a thing for cuckoldryWell, he was English.
>>25382643I read it, it's yet another novel in which private-enterprise Americans desolate a new planet and destroy its natives, just as though Vietnam had never happened. And not one person in the entire novel is actually very bright or even likeable.So yes, you'll enjoy it.
>>25381485>>25382663HMOFA and generally humam/alien romantic and sexual relations being accepted and common only became a thing fairly recently. Even in the late 80's it was simply seen as taboo, abnormal and wacky to have a human romantically involved with an alien in sci-fi, despite Captain Kirk's (inaccurate) reputation.
>>25382741Lots of 60s and 70s SF/F is, which is a curious thing. The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant begins with a depressed character getting hit by a truck and being transported into a magical world where he's a powerful hero
I am autistic, and these are the characters I’m using as the basis for the protagonists of my second fantasy book.
>>25383086>BIONICLE>The ThingAlready off to a great start
>>25382511I'd still argue it's a bit different since his settings are pretty racially homogeneous and you're at least raising one of your own people vs. today's aggressive ethnocuckoldry. I still think it's more a function of Gemmell's "hardship builds virtue" lower class moralism, but otherwise I concede the point.>>25382967>Canterbury Tales>Sir Gawain>Faerie QueeneYeah it's looking less like a coincidence and more like an institution
>>25383063I like how Carl in DCC doesn't beckme the greatest swordsman of the land when he gets sucked into a fantasy setting. Becomes a terrorist instead.
what went so wrong?
>>25382088Looks like I've only got up to 303 from my source. I came across it and haven't really looked elsewhere since it has over 100 sff magazines all bundled together for easy download.
Seems I've been inattentive due to playing a game for the last several days. >>25381866You're welcome. There's ~30 more I plan to look at that are releasing this year, though it's possible I won't read any of them so I haven't added them to my "want to read" in Goodreads. I've looked at a lot this year, but I only added a those I read ~20% to the newly added "did not finish" shelf. You may be interested by what else I've read and wrote about. As expected, it's Yev.
>>25382328What book is this?
>>25383246How to Suck Cocks Properly, pagespammer's favorite book.
>>25383246Not Pagespammer, but it's City Of Last Chances by Adrian Tchaikovsky. I recommended it in the last thread because it's got some neat fantasy ideas.>>25374778
>>25383231Technology makes people dumber.
>>25383231The last one is just smut for women which is where a lot of the publishing industry has gone
Really enjoying between two fires. How are the rest of his books?
>>25383493Blacktoungue Thief and it's prequel The Daughters' War were well received. Although they are a more traditional fantasy setting compared to Between Two Fires. man-eating goblins, wars of genocide, wizards, thieves guilds, giants, ect.
Now that I have finished Sun Eater, I can finally that I have finished it. Because no one asked:5>6>4>3>2>7>>>1
>>25383546No one cares.
>>25383546sorry about this retard >>25383552 but the general has moved past sun eater finally
>It isn’t the realists who find life dreadful. It’s the romancers. After all, which group is trying to escape from life? Reality is horrible and wonderful, disappointing and ecstatic, beautiful and ugly. Reality is everything. Reality is what there is. Only the hopelessly insensitive find reality so pleasant as to never want to get away from it, but painkillers can be bad for the health.
>>25382486I'm mostly through the first book. This has a weird narrative to it. It's just repetitive scenes of the protagonist getting captured by different people and arguing loyalties with them.
>>25383566Sounds like a shitty Hadrian quote trying to farm surface level deep points from retards
>>25383579>I'm not butthurt
>In November 1968, a speaker at the Philadelphia Science Fiction Convention described the heroes such writers create: "The only real He-Man is Master of the Universe."
>>25383505NTA. Seems interesting enough, thanks.
>>25382972>So yes, you'll enjoy it.What the FUCK!?
>>25383632It's the 4th of July, isn't it?
>>25383641So? What are (You)? Some kind of faggot redskin?
>>25383647You clearly aren't, so you should enjoy that book.
>>25383651Boo-hoo, bitch nigga
>>25383655>recommend a reactionary book to a reactionary anon who wants to read it>reactionary anon gets angry
>You are a reactionary ackchually!Oh my GOD, shut the FUCK up.
>>25382643is it safe to say you won't read it after getting so mad at the implication you might enjoy the novel?
>>25383686Why couldn't you just talk about the book without getting all faggy and political?
>>25383720Because Niven and Pournelle are very political in their writings.
>>25383720Man you're such a fag.
>>25383742>>25383746Are you the same cocksucker who was whining about Ringworld several threads back because you didn't like how Teela Brown was portrayed?
>>25383752>everyone is my boogeyman
>>25383772Answer the question. Your behavior is nigh identical.
>>25383720Scifi is an inherently political genre
>>25383789Ringworld isn't political at all.
>>25383795lollmao
>Can't post about Niven books in the scifi thread anymore without some local polsci idiot going ape shitFatigue
>noo dont discuss heckin politics on my /lit/erature board!!!
>>25383808Correct. You have a containment board specifically for such discussions.
>>25383812The themes and ideas contained within nearly all literature are political in nature. If you can't discuss these ideas for fear of being "too political" then this entire board serves absolutely no purpose.(You) are a moron who has no business discussing books in any matter approaching serious, past a kindergarten reading level.
>ummmmm.... everything in life is political ackchually!!Yup, you're the same faggot LMAO. I'd kill myself if I thought I was going to turn out like (You)
>>25383823Years of /pol/ have rotted your fucking mind just like everyone else of your ilk.
>>25383823Fuck off pagespammer.
>>25383823Big P or little p?Twat.
>>25383578The first book is peopled by a bunch of honor-autists who have complex relationship webs. That's a big reason Vayne is brought on so that Morgaine can navigate it.The other books are better if it's bothering you. It still deals a lot with complex loyalties and goal priorities, because it's a theme of the whole series, but not in the same way.
>>25383856wtf its not me retard
>>25383899>criminal returns to the scene of the crime Yes it is, lmao.
>>25383899>t. pirate that realizes he brought someone else's retard on board
This general is fucking unsalvagable. Stop making the threads. It's beyond over.
>>25383913You'd be a lot happier if you read books and discussed them here.
>>25383915Can't. The guaranteed daily presence of bakkerspammer/pagespammer and "I'll shoot down every attempt you make because politics" fag ensures any meaningful discussion is nigh meaningless and impossible.
How do we get pagespammer permabanned?
>>25383505>Blacktoungue ThiefIs it woke slop?
>>25383920He's so self-centered he never replies to other people. It's fine. In fact you might bully him out because he'll feel neglected or shamed by someone else doing this schitck but properly.
>>25383944He replies all the time, what are you on about?
>>25383546>Ashes of Man is the best>it's literally just the back 40% of KoD padded to 500 pagesAudacious choice, I have to respect it. I wish the KoD manuscript hadn't been split. DiW is the best imo but DQ is my favorite.3 = 6 > 2 > 4 > 5 > 7 > 1
>>25383948He replies back when you reply to him. He doesn't reply to people's posts that aren't otherwise about him.
>>25383935Women soldiers. Though it's because all the men died in the last goblin war. The female knight is a lesbian, though it doesn't come up much.On a scale of 1-10 where Conan is 1 and Poppy War is 10, I'd give it a 6. It's no more woke than between two fires.
>>25384306Don't the women soldiers cut off their breasts?What's even the point then?
>>25384384I'm pretty sure that was only the death cultists. Not something common to all the female soldiers
>>25384040I thought the end and Hadrian's grief were really well done. I also didn't feel like it couldn't stand on its own, yes it's the second half of a manuscript but it feels like a complete work to me. Overall I enjoyed the series, glad I picked it up.
>>25384499shit taste, but the series couldn't be popular otherwise, its good somebody was able to enjoy it, it would be sadder if everybody was pretending.
>>25384513Don't care, didn't ask, faggot never reply to me again
>>25384559
>>25384559I'll do what I want. Kill yourself or deal with it.
If you guys got help from /sffg/ on a novel you were writing but it couldnt be directly linked, would you ever let it be known if the book became massively successful and popular?
>>25383913>pagespammer>antipolschizo>____(You)______It's so fucking over. Shut it down, lads.
>>25381896You think that's bad?>read The Incal>introduction by Brian Michael Bendis
>>25384804I'd dedicate the book to /sffg/ of course!
>>25384882Bendis? The comicbook writer? That Bendis?
>>25384559Every thread attracts butthurt normalfags (like You) who get mad when other people observe that they only read megapopular works.
which asoiaf character I can play as in elden ring?Stannis is easy pick, I was thinking Gregor Clegane pure strenght build.
>>25384804No.
>>25384804yes
>>25384306BTF is far from woke.
>>25384306>Women soldiers>The female knight is a lesbianOf course. Thanks anon, id rather just skip it.
>>25384937am i the only one that has thought that a song of fire and ice flows from the tongue better?
>>25385270A song of fire and ice goes: -----___A song of ice and fire goes: ---__---The latter is better. Think about it.
>>25385232Don't get me wrong. I loved BTF but people have a broad definition of what they consider woke, which is why I gave a scale. Between 2 fires made the second coming of Christ a woman, had a gay priest as an important character, and promotes the no-killing pacifism that Christianity founded itself on. Any one of those would be a dealbreaker for some people.
>>25385291i dun get it
>>25385302You just have a tin ear and no sense of meter, I guess.
I have this odd feeling that A Song of Ice and Fire is overrated.
>>25385302Sound it out.
>>25382046If you go to an uncurated outlet, like for example audiobookbay, you will see that every other book published is litrpg... This and romantasy have real knock-on effects in culture, just one generation later.
>>25385868ntaThe quantity of titles has nothing to do with how much they sell. The market could theoretically be 90% of something, but 90% of the sales are from the 10%. In other words, what you're saying doesn't mean much.
>>25385616Overrated compared to what?
>>25385616Rateing it positively in any way is overrating it.
>>25386063That's the thing. Not compared to anything. It just feels vaguely overrated. Obviously nobody is comparing it to Literature. But maybe Tolkien I guess? Or compared to fantasy as a whole and the best it has to offer?
>>25383895Finished the second book. It was more interesting to me, but just like the first the protag spends much of the book imprisoned by someone.
>>25386294ntaYou haven't even read it. You've only seen the theories. Aside from that, your basis for appraisal may as well not exist for how unformed it is.
>>25386319I don't know who you're talking to I've read ASOIAF.
I wish someone learns to monetize webnovels already so that we can start getting decent modern fantasy.
>>25386475Name 2 well written webnovels that exist
>>25386475What do you mean? They already are.
>>25386479I'm not saying any exist rn, I'm saying that it's the only way we can get any decent modern fantasy novels. Trad Pub is just an Affirmative Action program these days, no damned way is it producing anything decent. If we can somehow find a way to make good writing profitable, it's only a matter of time before webnovel writers start investing in making better novels. Incentivize good writing and you'll get good writing.
>>25386506Well I hope your dream happens one day, but I'm not sure why webnovels wouldn't eventually just end up in the same unsatisfying position you find Trad Pub to be in.
>>25386553They will, nothing lasts forever. I'm not an idealist, I just want to enjoy it while it lasts.
>>25381297Conan the Barbarian and Elric are both like this. The pulps in general tend to focus on wild vistas and scenes and crazy supernatural stuff while having fairly light (though not bad) plots.Honestly I think the craziest shit Howard ever wrote was The Cat and the Skull, that Kull story where he goes underwater and fist fights alien fish men from another dimension while holding his breath. That story is also incidentally absolutely hilarious when you finish it and work through what actually happened.
>>25382315She betrays everyone she courts over and over, her sister fits the trope described better.>>25382292The trope is the godess Circe>Zimmer Bradley with his Avelon series.
>>25381669>Irish giant elk-like dead end>There needs to be hay in the bootsanon what the fuck are you talking about?
>>25386635I believe he's advocating for realism.The irish giant elk died out because its antlers were too big for it, as I recall. Zappfe liked to use it to describe the full flowering of human consciousness - an over evolved survival adaptation that became a detriment and caused pain. Can't speak for hay in boots, I'd guess it's something they used to do for padding?
What's the point of writing Fantasy if you want realism?
>>25383493really liked Blacktoungue Thief & the lesser dead. The Necromancer’s house was ok gave neil gaiman vibes, didn't care for The Suicide Motor Club
>he was a nigger all alongGoshWOWWhat a well executed twistThat's fucking crazy
>>25381275Is anyone interested in reading stories set in a wholly novel sci-fi universe which is built from the ground up without direct references to other franchises (and any similarities/overlaps are purely incidental)? There's a serious ontology and metaphysics behind the project. Also, the sci-fi is an homage to European culture from the Iliad to present day and carries the foundational civilization layers across the millennia while still dropping retarded contemporary/temporary shit, so you have things like Poincaré navigation arrays but not "Macron" class ship hulls.Also also, Earth has been removed from the picture, the entire civilization is in the Large Magellanic Cloud (having long left earth).
>>25386765You just described a setting. A setting by itself isn't enough to grab me.What kind of story are you trying to tell? What's going on? Why should we care?
>>25386781I'm asking specifically about the setting on purpose. I'm curious whether people would be discouraged from trying whatever story I'm trying to tell based on any of the factors I described (there's plenty of people I've met online and irl who tell me they are interested in inhabiting worlds and hold the setting itself to higher standards than the actual stories).As for >What kind of story are you trying to tell? What's going on? Why should we care?The premise of my project is the invention of a fourth (or third) domain of cellular life which is entirely artificially created and does not mix with normal biology but is unintentionally sensitive to metaphysical "currents" at a much smaller scale than humans who perceive at larger scales through ritual, history, religion and religious practice, and philosophy. It is an anthology exploring the intersection of faith, worldview, intention, culture and history, and the overarching conflict which is emerging can be boiled down to>History used to frame the enemy as wrong: believers in unreal things (opposition of gods/models). In reality, the enemy is truly dangerous because they are also right, and their faith, science, myth, or ideology is helping bring a rival reality into Being.Some of the stories are military sci-fi, others are romance, others still are psychological.
>>25386765Write the story you want to tell, not the one you think other people will want to hear. The best gifts are the ones you didn't know you wanted.
>>25386803>people I've met online and irl who tell me they are interested in inhabiting worlds and hold the setting itself to higher standards than the actual storiesI feel nothing but contempt for these people.>an anthology exploring the intersection of faith, worldview, intention, culture and historyNot for me, then. But I'm sure others could be interested.
>>25386805I have no intention of ever writing anything other than what I want to tell, I'm simply gauging interest. There are some small parameters I could tweak in order to "open the doors wider" as it were, but I'm primarily just putting the outline out here and seeing what people's kneejerk reactions are. Thanks, anon.
>>25386811>Not for me, then. But I'm sure others could be interested.What would do it for you? As I told the other anon above, I don't intend to bend the stories out of shape, but there are some things I simply haven't thought of or encountered that would be interesting to me to write and play with.
>>25385296Thank God the book is FANTASY.
>>25386553>but I'm not sure why webnovels wouldn't eventually just end up in the same unsatisfying positionBecause there is zero barrier to entry. Literally anyone can write a weekly serial and get rubes to pay 10 bucks a month to their Patreon. Now yes, 99.9% of all webnovels are trash. And yes, the deluge makes it impossible for me to bother rooting through the swill like a pig at a trough. But the medium is inherently resistant to the same influences as traditional publishing.
>>25386866ntaThat does nothing for it to be anything you want to read. Ultimately the problem is that not that many people want to write what you want to read.
>>25386864People on this board let woke gremlins live inside their head rent free and whisper sweet nothings into their ear. "There could be women here" they say."Ive never read this book before. There could be women anywhere." He would respond. The hot PC exhaust feeling good against his bare chest. "I HATE WOMEN" he would think. While the Audiobook of The Prince of Nothing book 2 reverberates his desk, making it pulsate even as the $9 energy drink circulates through his cholesterol choked veins and washes away his (merited) fear of the fairer sex. "Bakker is king!" They say in unison, outloud.
I'm writing a sci Fi novella with fairly significant romance elements, but still mainly aimed at men. What annoys you lot the most in that area so that I can avoid it? The setting is otherwise vaguely inspired by mad max, Warhammer 40k, Blindsight, and—only very broadly—Book of the New Sun.
>>25386931I was also NTA. My point wasn't about subject matter or genre. It was about the rampant spelling, grammer, and formatting mistakes on top of repeating entire sentences and conversations that I'd extremely common in webnovels
