You guys visualise the novel you're reading?!
>>25395799When I was a teenager,I used to jerk off using my imagination.
>>25395799>y'all I hate Americans so goddamned much.
How do you even test this? If you think you're a 1, does that mean you should be able to draw the apple in that level of detail by memory?What if you can only see extreme detail zoomed in? Or what if you're just lying to yourself that you're imagining extreme detail at all, & your mind is just remembering that it's seen an apple at some point & associates the imagination with that?
another>wow look I'm superior to those sex-having hylics/aphantasia normies!thread, make sure to keep it on first page guys
>>25395842same
>>25395867I can draw an apple that detailed and just imagine hands rotating the apple so you know it's not just memory association
>>25395799Visualisation usually slows down my reading.
>>25395842Why only as a teenager?Adults should do that as well
>>25395937as if that's a bad thing
>>25395799>mfw reading anything involving Artemis/Diana, nymphs, naiads and maenads being bodacious beautiful babes in the wilds.the Greeks and Romans are big gay for so many myths about being male deities being pervy rapists. Why couldn't they make more stories about goddesses and female spirits getting the hots for dudes.
>>25395878I have sex AND I can rotate an apple in my headsucks to suck bro
>>25395842I do this now. the idea that people lack this power. infinite infinite power
>>25395867if you could do it you'd understand, mr. 5
So if you’re a 5 and someone asks you to describe a cow you couldn’t answer without one there? Or do you pull it from some sort of textual description you have saved for every object in the world?
>>25395842my crush had such humiliating things done to her in my mind. unspeakable things
>>25396228I think they're like AI, yes.
>>25396085>sucks to suck brosorry to hear that you are limited to oral
>>25395842I still use my imagination and I'm 40.
>>25395799it's become a meme but i'm like twitter user John Green in that I did not know the other ones existed at allHowever, it's wrong to say there's absolutely nothing going on upstairs, it's just not visual. Like, if I'm hungry and try to picture an apple I'll get hungry for it, the crisp texture and that sweet apply taste. To me apples have a very notable weight in the hand, and when I picture one I almost can like feel the weight of it
>>25395867A good test would be to draw something from memory and then draw the same thing from a reference. If the reference drawing is substantially better then you are not a 5.
>>25396405I mean not a 1
>>25395799I call this crocodile syndrome. Not that I expect it to catch on or anything. Anyway my theory is that crocodiles were deemed generally stupid animals by zoologists for a very long time, but then as advances in studying animal intellect took place and people figured out better ways of observing animals, it was discovered that crocodiles have an extremely long memory and very good pattern recognition. They can do things like figure out the pattern a mammal is developing to avoid it, even if the mammal doesn't realize it's actually producing a pattern, and accurately stalk that location on a very precise date to ambush said mammal when they think it's safe. What does that have to do with humans imagining apples? Motivation. When a crocodile is not motivated to do anything it will not fulfill any of the old exercises nor criteria that zoologists used to employ to try and determine animal intellect. But when a crocodile is motivated (by prey) it reveals how intelligent it actually is. Not only is this apparent in nature but modern zoologists study what motivates the crocodile and have confirmed it isn't a one-note animal, it can effectively learn very complex things if motivated sufficiently. A crocodile will learn to keep a schedule and perform tricks if you understand how to motivate it. A human will learn to envision objects in their head, vividly, as though they were real. How to reliably motivate to do that isn't clear to me personally, but I get the feeling if you said "envision your smartphone" instead of "envision an apple" you'd realize most people can complete this mental exercise.
>>25395987Gotta keep that slop throughput optimal.
>>25395799I don't believe anyone who claims to be a 5. I don't see how that's possible without something seriously wrong with your brain. Can you draw an apple without looking at one to some degree, even if it's just 4? Then you can visualize, so shut the fuck up.
>>25395799I visualize the words in the text like characters' names moving around on the page and acting out the story
>>25396618I think people (retards) are conflating visualization with hallucination. As if they’re conjuring up the ideas of an apple and one is magically supposed to *poof* just appear in front of their eyes like they’re looking at a physical painting of an apple.If someone was truly unable to visualize they wouldn’t be able to recall memories or daydream or do much of anything beyond stare and drool and crap their pants.
>>25395842It's literally the only healthy way to masturbate. Watching porn is degrading. Everyone should do that
reading is basically like watching a movie for me, i can "see" everything
>>25395799I don't see it exactly, but I experience it in my mind. It's not like I have my mind's images draped over my own visual field. But I do have a clear sense of what they look like and I do see the scenes play out in my mind.
Almost all times I can visualise it, except when I was trying to read pic relatedWTF was bro going on about, I'm not a geologist
>>25395799>You guys visualize the novel you're readingThe number 1 reason I love audiobooks so much is because it allows me to immersively visualize the book. Reading the text rather than listing is great for note taking and study of informational text in granular detail when you are examining it line by line, sentence by sentence, or even word by word. It's awful (for me at least) for continuous narratives and stories. Most of my effort is spend maintaining focus on staying perfectly still and not disrupting my place among the lines. The story is in fragments that have to be assembled to make a whole. Plus the eye strain and head aches and having to constantly reread parts several times. Overall, it's too much of a cognitive load to allow for any sort of detailed visualization. At least while reading. Visualization comes after reading and comprehending a passage or chunk of text. Not during reading. During reading 100% of focus is spent on just reading and taking notes.
>>25395867Visualization isn't the same as ability to draw. Drawing requires strong hand eye coordination and knowledge of drawing techniques. You could be able to visualize something perfectly but if your drawing skills are bad you would still just draw chicken scratch.
>>25396785same
>>25396689They cannot daydream.
>>25395842I still do. Nowadays i just mostly imagine myself prompting furry porn
>>25395799>another thread of people who believe they're on opposite ends of this spectrum simply because they have a poor time communicating the intricacies of what the "mind's eye" and imagination are.>People that are 5 thinking that 1s are actually hallucinating1 and 5 are the same fucking thing. How is an author getting this wrong? People with 1 are not literally hallucinating an apple. It's still invisible in their vision, but present in their mind and can be manipulated. It's an invisible layer within the mind like a sheet of celluloid with the object on it.
>>25395799Surely John Green has read a book that contains visual descriptions of people, places, and things. I have never read one of his books, but I assume they probably contain such descriptions as well. What does he think the purpose of the descriptions is if not to inform picture-making in the mind's eye?Or does he think people literally see an apple floating in front of them like some kind of acid trip?
>>25395799>You guys visualise the novel you're reading?!Yes, I thought the family in “As I Lay Dying” were African Americans.
>>25395842i still do that. it's better.
>>25395867Do it by using memory; try to recreate, for example, your grandparents house. Imagine yourself walking through each room and trying to build it up as close to reality as possible. If you can do this and it's somewhat vivid with colors and little details, you are probably a 5. Where people get confused is that 5 is itself a gradient; some people can probably render each strand of hair and every pore on a person's face. However, not being able to do so doesn't mean you aren't a 5 on this scale.
>>25395799Yes but it's dependent on how interesting the scene is. It takes a little bit of effort to conjure the image so it's not really worth it for small interactions. I almost always have a rough image of the characters who are interacting, for mannerisms and facial expressions, almost like those old might and magic portraits or doomguy's face, but full body. I'll go whole hog blockbuster movie for big fights or arguments or set pieces.
>>25395867This is the most 5 post I've ever read LMAO
6 here, I have an actual apple in my head
>>25397902Meant to say 1 not 5 kek
>>25395799Does John have some sort of disability or something? "Visualizing something in your mind" is a thing even literal toddlers can do.
>>25395799>the virgin visualizervs>the chad cerebral reader
>>25395799Yes, and since I like and understand cinema as an artform too, I usually even set the angles, lighting and color palette of each major scene, including the acting when emotional characters are involved.
>>25397902>>25397913I don't think that's a good exercise enough to know if you are a 1, because you can just conjure memories of your grandparents house. Memory is out of the bounds of aphantasia.So, instead, see a random object in front of you and try to imagine this object sitting randomly in every single room inside your grandparents house. If you can do so, you are a 1 or a 2. If you do that with a random object that's not even in front of you right now, you are definitely a 1.
>>25395842Doing this with a long term storyline is the ultimate gooning technique when you're a 1 on this scale.
>>25398136>Memory is out of the bounds of aphantasia. If they can still see memories that condition has to be fake...
>>25398185Yes. I won't discard that possibility.
>>25398175I do that. that doesn't mean I'm autistic though
>>25395842I do but its hard to imagine them wanting me ive literally started fantasizing about being at the strip club. Even in my own mind im only worth my money to them :(
>>25397146Exactly what i was gonna say. I dont know how it is comparatively but i have a pretty vivid visual imagination. I assumed and still do that most people do though honestly
>>25395799I don't believe anyone can be 5. You literally just recall images from memory. Like you really gonna tell me you can't recall your mother's face?
>>25395878>t. 3-5
>>25395799is it possible for a 5 to become a 1? or is this merely an inevitability of a bad book that doesn't prioritise memorable features like the interiors, clothing or the expressions of objects and people.
>>25395799I believe this has something to do with the way parents raised their kids or how much you interact with something visual in your development age. Even something as small as bedtime stories, with illustration and visual assistance, could train a kid to memorize things based on their visual information
>>25398901Bs. I could visualise myself throwing fire balls out of my hands as early as 5.
>>25395799This is such an unproductive conversation because it relies on letting people use language to describe a strange, extremely unique and hard to describe experiential phenomenon that nobody else can access, and where there's no established conventions or understood common ground on how to describe it. Two people are liable to use wildly different language and formulations to describe the exact same thing. Two people could be at the same point at this scale so construed, and one person considers themselves a 1, and another a 4 or even a 5, because of not having the same understanding of this as conveyed to them by inherently unclear and ambiguous language. There are no dedicated words for the unique qualities of mental imagery because nobody can correct each other or guide each other on how to describe it, because nobody else can see your mental imagery and tell you if you're expressing the experience badly or according to some generally prevelant conventions. For example, picture the Joker walking out of the hospital in the nurse costume in The Dark Knight, a very culturally prevelant image we've all seen, that made an impression, that is pretty well held in the minds eye even if you haven't seen it in years.Some people will say they're a 1 because they do very much see something in their head, especially his face, the general shape and impression of the costume, the sort of waddling, clumsy way he walks, they see some kind of overall impression of a hospital behind him.But how many buttons are on the front of his dress? Exactly how high up his leg is it? Not about, exactly. What exactly did the detonator he was holding look like? Were cars or ambulances parked in view at the hospital behind him? How many? What did the hospitals windows look like. What kind of shoes was he wearing? Some people will say they're a 1 because they can in the sense we're talking about "see" the Joker, some will say they're like a 4 or 5 because of these glossed over, unclear impressionistic details. There's no way to set this up to be really talked about accurately
>>25398942>For example, picture the Joker walking out of the hospital in the nurse costume in The Dark Knight, a very culturally prevelant image we've all seen, that made an impression, that is pretty well held in the minds eye even if you haven't seen it in years.Please do not assume I watch Nolan filth.
>>25398942Some will say they're a 5 because they aren't actually hallucinating Joker in the room in front of them, not realizing that isn't what is happening with 1s.
>>25398913you probably watch some cartoon (either naruto or ben 10) and you imagine yourself throwing fire like one of those cartoon character. That's how toddler brain works, hence why they are imaginative and can visualize themselves in fictional scenario
>>25399343the aphantasia hylics don't realize the difference between hallucinating and the mind's eye, that when you visualize it you see it someplace that's not actually in your field of vision
>>25395867The rich are able to afford red coloring instruments and thus can easily buy their way to a 2. Whereas the poor, no matter how much they train with their stolen golf pencils, can only aspire to be a 3.
>>25395799A good book is very evocative and comes to life even without any active effort. With a bad book, I'm too busy trying to decipher what the fuck the author is trying to say to see anything.
>>25399375Yeah sure , but everyone except the blind experiences something like that. The 5s on this chart shouldn't even exist
>>25395799>haha look at me, I'm such a fucking subhuman I can't even visualize an apple haha, I'm such a dork hahahahaFucking hang the retard.
>>25396456>How to reliably motivate to do that isn't clear to me personally, but I get the feeling if you said "envision your smartphone" instead of "envision an apple" you'd realize most people can complete this mental exercise.You apply Pavlovian conditioning to a random object by learning the person’s personal interests. Great theory btw anon.
maybe not related but after my 2nd psychotic episode, I stopped being able to pull the direct meaning from words. It's strange, a lot of words don't mean anything to me, but some words do. If I read the word, 'rust' I know exactly what that means, but someone could give me a sentence of dialogue from a book and a lot of the time I can't find any emotional cues in it whatsoever.
>>25395842I still do, it's becoming a problem as real sex cannot be as good.
>>25395842You mean hands free right? I came at least a handful of times as a teenager with no physical simulation of my penis by imagining sex.
>>25398454I feel ya. Even in real life my brain cannot accept when good things happen to me and it begins to crystallize an alternate explanation where some sinister or metaphysical force is subverting my despair by giving me crumbs of hope.
>>25399587You missed the observation part. When you watch a cartoon and imitate one of the cartoon character throwing fire ball from their hand, you observe that character movement when they were about to throw a fire ball before later on imitate that charater action and inserting your visual imagination that you are throwing a fireball. Same thing goes with kids who grew up with bedtime stories and illustration; its all the matter of stimulation and conditioning when you're still a toddler. On the contrary, kids who grew up with this inability to visualize something in their head are not being used to observe something around them; they can only perceive things as text or sentence and nothing more. This is why stimulation is the most important and crucial things in raising a kid because it goes everywhere.For example, all kids knew that bedroom is a place or room for them to sleep, that a bedroom consist of bed, wardrobe, table, chair, window, etc. An observant kid could tell the size of their wardrobe, the color of their bed sheets, the things that are on top of their table, even clothes that are laying on the floor, while non-observant kid would stop at object description like telling people that they have a bed, a wardrobe, a table, a window, et cetera. The reason is not becausr they cant remember the objects that are in their bedroom or didnt know the name of that object, but because they are not being observant or attentive enough towards the object in their bedroom. They can only see those object as a function and nothing else. And why are they like that? Well, because they are not used to be attentive towards anything like that or remembering things in visual
>>25399630>I can’t find any emotional cuesThat doesn’t sound like a problem with meaning so much as appreciating subtext. If the dialogue is “my dog just died” you can parse that the person’s pet dog is gone, but you won’t be able to infer they’re probably sad about it.
>>25395799I used to but they put me on SSRIs as a teenager and I lost the ability Im at 3, almost 4
>>25395842Like you I used to do this too except I via lucid dreaming
>>25395799The less visual description the passage gives the better I'm able to visualise it. Once the author starts slogging down their prose with autistic details my imagination finds it hard to follow. But these writers are easily avoided for the most part. I'm a 2-3 btw!
>>25401326I actually find this too. If the author writes ''a woman walked in, she was beautiful'' my imagination conjures something up quite quickly, but then they go on like ''she had mousey hair tied up in a bow, wide purple lips, long curving eyelashes and silver eyes drooping like pears'' and they completely ruin it, my mental image is displaced by this incongruous freak.
