WTF is blud yapping about
>>25396164Just read Guy Debord he's saying the same shit but less autistic
>>25396167So Baudrillard is useless?
>>25396559Pretty much.
Basedrillard filters so many, no I won't explain, just watch the news and let the goy deal in the real world.
>>25396164The one you call "blud" is nothing less than than the modern Plato. Please have more respect.
The simulation of the real has become the new real. There you can go back to jerking off to hentai
it's truly the perfect explanation of simulacra
>uh bro society is like all fake and stuffOK how?>uhhh because it's like all symbols and signs bro and not realYes but how exactly, what is this "real" society?>uhhhhhhhh it doesn't exist but trust me bro it's all fake it's all simulacra broRight, perhaps your philosophy and yourself are just retarded
>>25396164We live in a world where there is more and more information, and less and less meaning.
>>25396164That book literally has no actual substance, whoever says he can parse it is lying
>>25396876This post means nothing
>be city planner guy>country gets new official language>have to plan to integrate it in all the infrastructure and programming>this process of updating things creates a new economy and life experiences that would have never been there otherwise >yfw you've created an entirely new economy, and experiences, even though your job is to make it look like the city is the exact same>you've created a new city by trying to maintain the old city
>>25397236ok i dont get it
>>25397257>thing A exists>thing A does A things>A things are not thing A>A things becomes thing B>people treat thing B like it's thing A
>>25396925Its maps of maps
the best I could do in trying to understand this is that its like how retards get this idea of what the 1950s were from advertisements and assorted relics from the past which provide an incomplete perspective of reality, and people then get this completely illusory idea of what reality was like in that time period, then they go on to build new ideas and try to build the future based on those illusory ideas, and so on and so fourth, until the actual reality of the 1950s is completely and utterly lost and now exists in the view of future people as a series of symbolic representations based on symbolic representations based on advertisements, based on aesthetic and cultural trendsis this at all accurate?
>>25397270This is just a worse version of John Galt's speech
>>25397298Lets play a game>tell me what mustard is right now and attach a picture of mustard.
>>25397299Why is it worse?
>>25397298Sort of like how people use the selective narrative of "Fiction used to be all about Utopias! people believed in something not like today!" to paint a narrative of whether vague post WW2 1900s decade they want to posture about against the modern day? Is that what you're saying?
>>253973031. Existence Exists (A is A): The speech is grounded in a firm, rational metaphysical framework. Reality is an absolute, independent of anyone's feelings or desires. The law of identity ("A is A") means that facts are facts and cannot be wished away or legislated out of existence. A motor cannot run without the knowledge to build it, and a civilization cannot survive by punishing intelligence.2. Reason is Man's Tool of Survival: Man's mind is not a luxury or a tool for abstract speculation; it is his primary organ of survival. Unlike animals with automatic instincts, man must choose to think to gain the knowledge he needs to live. The refusal to think, or "evasion," is the primary sin.3. Life as the Standard of Value: Morality is not about pleasing a god or a neighbor; it is the science of how to live. The ultimate standard of value is your own life. The purpose of morality is to teach you how to achieve happiness, not how to suffer. Man is an "end in himself," not a means to the ends of others.4. The Seven Virtues: To live a rational life, Galt identifies seven core virtues: · Rationality: The commitment to think and perceive reality. · Independence: Taking full responsibility for your own judgment and life. · Integrity: Living by your convictions, never sacrificing them for others. · Honesty: Refusing to fake reality or cheat. · Productivity: The creative work of shaping the world for your own benefit. · Justice: Judging men objectively; rewarding virtue and condemning vice. · Pride: Recognizing your own value as a self-made man and refusing unearned guilt.>here is some spewage the demiurge wrote into existence through a clanker.
>>25397298You are completely wrong, probably because you're a libtard who thinks "the 50s were a myth". The "myth of the 50s" is itself a myth.>from advertisements and assorted relics from the past which provide an incomplete perspective of realityThis is where you're wrong. It's not advertisements or movies actually made during the 50s that provide the false perspective of the 50s, but movies and TV shows made decades after, like Happy Days, Back to the Future, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Pleasantville, Queen's Gambit, etc. Baudrillard himself talks about the 1971 film The Last Picture Show. Similarly, the 60s are not remembered by any TV show made during the 60s, but by Mad Men, made fifty years after. The Holocaust is remembered by Schindler's List, the Edwardian Era is remembered by Mary Poppins, and so on. You yourself are a victim of the matrix. Your idea that "retards get this idea of what the 1950s were from advertisements" is a meme spread around anti-50s liberal circles, to discredit pro-50s right-wingers without calling attention to their own hyperreality. The actual pro-50s retards don't use mid-century advertisements a whole lot, they watch new movies or shows that take place in the 50s. For example, in picrel, OP praises the "50s", but his image is from a movie made in 2016. He doesn't use an advertisement or a photograph from the actual 50s.There are, in fact, two different simulacra of the 50s, the positive one like picrel, where women were "trad submissive housewives", and the negative one where women were "depressed slaves to the patriarchy," which I assume you believe.An aspect of the negative simulacrum is that anything that might be positive about the 50s is an illusion created by advertisements and commercials, when in fact nobody takes those advertisements as historical fact. This allows the negative simulacrum to overcome the positive simulacrum without calling attention to the fact that it is a simulacrum at all.
This is a very low IQ thread.
>>25397386Baudrillard uses an example of cave that people decide needs to be preserved so they make a fake cave replica that tourists can explore. he also uses the idea of a movie about a nuclear meltdown preceding an actual nuclear meltdown, which is the reason for it being the public consciousness in the first place. in my example the idea is that A=B at which point meaning is said to implode
>>25397393Picrel is an example of the negative simulacrum.
>>25397298>uh reality isn't real because dishonest people do dishonest thingswoah...
>>25397386I cant tell if youre pointing out the obvious retardedness and simplicity of these clauses or endorsing them.
=
>>25396164We made cultural landscapes based on fantasy like theme parks for the giggles and as an aspirational symbol of what the world should be like, but they were hollowed out and fake. The real world is attempting taking on the fake aspects of those simulacra in an attempt to reach that ideal without the acknowledgment that the world was never really that way, but people now THINK it was that way, further distorting our understanding of reality. Or something like that.
>>25397481Wow that's really profound and definitely not incoherent schizophrenic French gibberish
>>25396164>>25396861So is Baudrillard a more pessimistic Spengler?
>>25397298My favorite example is the strawberry flavour and the colour pink, neither of which has anything to do with real strawberries.
>>25397515The example of strawberry flavor or grape flavor as an example of a simulacrum is wrong. In order for the strawberry flavor and color to be a simulacrum, real strawberries would have to be extinct and forgotten. As Baudrillard says in the first page of S&S, it's not that the map no longer matches the territory, it's that there is no territory at all, there is only the map.
>>25397396I thought a simulacrum was a copy without an original, isn't there a clear original in those examples?
>>25397599I misread the part about the nuclear meltdown, if it's preceding the real one it fits. But what about the cave?
>>25397599>I thoughtYou ought not do so much of that. It only gets you in trouble.
>>25397536But the strawberry that the flavour refers to does not exist. It is extinct.
>>25397684Who gives a fuck?
>>25397536But the strawberry flavor doesn't have any real territory either. It's an entirely artificial flavor, with zero correspondence from anything in nature. It just steals the name and the superficial "idea" of a strawberry, normalized to the point where people associate that flavor immediately to the fruit.
>>25396164It's reverse platonism.We live in a corrupted world, but instead of the sensible world being the corruption of the ideal world, it's the ideal (i.e. made out of humans ideas) which is the corruption of the actual real world.Everything we perceive and believe is made of many layers of imaginary and symbolic projections of a reality no one truly knows. And modern media culture just made things worse.
>>25397702schizobabble
>>25397703Filtered. I think Jordan Peterson might be something on your lane, little buddy.
>>25397386Ok, so how does this randian shit have anything to do with Baudrillard?
>>25397412You have a very childish understanding of morals. Baudrillard isn't blaming individuals, he is just calling out the whole humankind on their bullshit. Everyone does it, but nobody even knows they are doing it.Just like Plato doesn't blame anyone for the people being locked in the Cave except the cave dwellers themselves.The fact that you read some small piece of social critique and immediately started to search for individual culprits is very retarded.
>>25397706schizobabble
>>25397710>calls someone else childish>praises a "philosopher" that says "society is le bad and le fake"
The medium is the message become apoptotic and self-reproductive. This is a consequence of the lack of human sacrifice ala Bataille
>>25397393>different groups remember the past differently. Woah.
>>25397819Only how whites remember it matters.
>>25397819His point is that neither of them remember a past that actually existed.
>>25397838>1950sI am forgotten..
>>25397684>>25397697No, the strawberry is called strawberry because it's still supposed to imitate strawberries, even if it does a bad job, and you'll commonly find strawberry ice cream with both strawberry flavoring and actual strawberries in them. Just because it doesn't do a good job imitating it doesn't make it a simulacrum.
>>25396164At the core of its essay there's the notion that making a copy of a copy is bad because each new copy loses the essence of the original until the point it becomes a mere image of it.
I'm yet to encounter a single idea in philosophy, especially 20th century one, that warrants writing books on it and being studied and obsessed over. When you strip away all the fancy words things are just, ok? This whole book was more of a game than anything substantial. Not going to say it's not fun (at times) but still. The ideas are either just ok or incredibly basic.
>>25397723>that says "society is le bad and le fake"You clearly didn’t read it and still acts like a child abusing reductio ad absurdum. Just grow up, little bro. Read some actual books.
>>25396164do you know anything about semiotics? because to know what the hell he's talking about you kinda need to at least be familiar with semiotics and signifier/signified and signs, since the whole idea of simulacra and simulation is signs without a signifier, representing nothing real
>>25396164Here's an example:The "college experience" (the romanticized American version where you drink and party and have lots of sex for 4 years straight) mostly comes from movies. For most people, college is a lot of staying up late, studying, stressing over grades and exams, and being poor. But people all think that college is going to be 4 years of partying and sex and drinking, because that's what we grew up watching in movies, that's what we were told it's like and we expect it to be like that, and get disappointed when it's notThat's because the sign (the "college experience") is based on something that is not real (films, television shows, etc)The signifier does not represent the signified
>>25399123>noooo you can't just btfo someone easilyCheckmate kid
>>25397236but enough about immigration
>>25397393>It's not advertisements or movies actually made during the 50s that provide the false perspective of the 50s, but movies and TV shows made decades afterit's both you retard. we have media about the current decade and year that retcon, memory hole, or outright lie about current reality.
>fictional media is fictionalWOAH STOP THE PRESSES
>>25399290this. what is interesting about saying "some things are faker than other things" unless youre making some sort of christian or platonic appeal that caring too much about the material world hurts your soul or something
>>25398256based, almost all of philosophy is pseud circlejerking with no substance
>>25399286>we have media about the current decade and year that retcon, memory hole, or outright lie about current reality. The 50s were before social media and mass television, dumbass. Film and television back then were too primitive to be the simulation that Baudrillard is writing about. I doubt you've actually read his works, though.
>>25399138>The signifier does not represent the signifiedAnother dipshit doesn't understand Baudrillard. It's not that the signifier fails to represent the signified, it's that there is no signified.
>>25399821Fucking mongoloid. That's what I said, basically
>>25399828No you retard. You said >The signifier does not represent the signifiedWhich implies the existence of a signified. In Baudrillard's philosophy, there is no signified to begin with.
>>25399855Surely you mean there's not a signified-anymore, not that there isn't one. Otherwise why are increasingly fake signifiers a bad thing? Keep in mind I don't know what a Bondillard is, just using logic.
The whole philosophy is predicated on the thought that a person is so utterly retarded they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a car and a Hot Wheels toy
>>25397599Yes. You are correct. The people in this thread are participating in the meme idea of Baudrillard. The simulacrum is something that existed for so long and take for granted that it is treated as reality without reference any original. "The map becomes the territory." "Disneyland isn't the fantasy. Disneyland exists to make one believe that everything else isn't already fantasy." "The Matrix is surely the kind of film about the matrix that the matrix would have been able to produce."For Baudrillard "falsity" or "untruths" or representations weren't the issue. The issue was us believing we could separate these falsity in a world that had lost all connection to reality. That a reality even existed anymore. Take for instance this meme >>25397427Baudrillard wouldn't have issue with the inflatable representation of the alligator. He would probably go on off on us thinking that the inflatable alligator was any more or less real than the "real" alligator whose home has been replace with a suburban pool and lives in a world whose habitat has been replaced with something else entirely. He would take issue with the meme whose joke is nonsensical since both gators are equivalent in world world where everything is exchangeable, replaceable, etc. etc.again, this is all very surface level baudrillard. His earlier work with marxist economics and semiotics are also interesting and blah blah blah. This is 4chan I'm a fag.
>>25398204Except it's not imitating the strawberry fruit at all.
>>25399865>there's not a signified-anymore>not that there isn't oneAre you retarded? If there's not one anymore, there isn't one now. >I don't know what a Bondillard isThen shut the fuck up
>>25399904That's like saying picrel isn't imitating a women. Obviously, it's not trying to be a 100% photographic equation of a woman, but it's still an imitation of a woman, only taking extreme artistic liberty. Likewise, the strawberry flavoring found in candy or ice cream takes "extreme artistic liberty" but it's still imitating a strawberry.>big booby anime girls are to real women as artificial strawberry flavors are to real strawberries
>>25399886thank you for this, nice points.
>>25399907So there not being one at all is the same as one having been but not anymore? I thought pillosophy was all about precision even when it's kinda redundant
>>25396167>>25399886these two are the only good posts itt
>>25399936You're so fucking retarded. The point is that there isn't one now.
>>25396559As is Debord, no less. All these people are just wprthless last men who only care about pleasure and comfort.
>>25397707He was quite clearly comparing the two and showing their similarity
>>25397404why do people say this retarded shit? Do people actually think no one was...wearing suits and cooking food in the 1950s?
>>25400035The past wasn't a perfect paradise like some right-wingers project, but libtards hate to admit that society has significantly declined in many aspects.
>>25396861Read his early work. "For a critique of the political economy of the sign." He actually quite thoroughly explains it. By the time he gets to S+S he expects you to not be retarded and is already moving to his later more literary mode where he doesn't hand hold you.
>>25397515Mix real strawberry purée into vanilla ice creamPink
>>25399886You and Baudrifag are fucking retarded
>>25396167Don't do this.
>>25396164>WTF is blud yapping aboutGoing to Gensokyo to fuck 2hus.
>>25403086But there's no busses in Gensokyo
>>25396861Asking the right questions. But /lit/ isn't a place for people with critical thinking skills. It is for pretentious guys who are into reading "theory". (Calling it such brings already some degree of blind acceptance stirred by political sentiment)
>>25397094damn nigga u proved his point
>>25402639OK, bubblegum flavor was originally tutti-frutti, but no one thinks of bubblegum flavor as a mix of fruit flavors anymore.
>>25396164ps2 rock band guitar hero algorithm
