I've recently enrolled in university at an older age and realised I know absolutely nothing about the world beyond a superficial understanding. I'm very interested in understanding the developments that led to the current state of our world. Is it correct to assume Greek philosophy is a good place to start? What should I read after? I have for example to idea what the relation between Hegel, Kant and Marx is and why the former two apparently prompted Marx to begin his works ;_; tl;dr despite having an easy and privileged life I am a complete bugman with no philosophical or historical opinion
>>25405999You are literally me
>>25405999>no philosophical or historical opinionYou don't need that for anything. Just be yourself.
>>25405999>I've recently enrolled in university at an older ageLOL! It's one thing to fall for the scam when you're just out of high school but as a "mature" student...LOL!
>>25405999>interested in understanding the developments that led to the current state of our worldSpecify your question further. Because> I know absolutely nothing about the world Indicates that starting with the greeks is actually pointless for you. >> recently enrolled in universityStudying what?> what the relation between Hegel, Kant and Marx Before you have any real use of reading philosophers you really need a baseline historical understanding to scaffold the rest onto. Read at a very minimum: Europe: A History by Norman DaviesFrom Dawn to Decadence by Jacques BarzunA History of Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid MacCullochThis is fairly modern bird's eye view over primarily European history (the only history that matters in understanding the world). It will hit on most of the pivotal philosophical trends as well, without digging you in beyond your understanding.
>>25406023OP might be rich. Would be fun to go to college as a rich guy.
>>25406032>recommends pop history Tell us you went to a shit school without telling us you went to a shit school.
>>25405999They're going to rape your credit. Study survival and state evasion as best you can and fuck off to the Taiga or something like that.Milk 'em for all they got. The current state hasn't much to do with the ancient Greeks, though they're a fun foundational study. I have been studying both without the university and debt so you can do both.Without giving you a course of my own (I'm not aa teacher but I guess I should be) you should check out Predictive History with "prof" Jiang. Great perspective and good book recommendations in those classes. (I don't agree with him about the moon landing being faked but it's good to have healthy skepticism)
>>25406047The man described himself as knowing nothing. You need a scaffold to hang information on. The books are aimed at a general audience but are not "pop history" and have extensive references.
>>25405999trips>>25402808>>25402808>>25402808this series is where everyone should start. but they think it's goosebumps because the graphic design from the 90s
What benefit could you hope to get from Greek philosophy as a mature student? It’s a foundation for being some sophisticated erudite Renaissance man, such, of course, as we on /lit/, but you’d be better learning how to manage your finances or how to fix a boiler. Shitting your pants because you don’t know Parmenides is unbelievably stupid in ways no amount of education can fix.
>>25405999Read Magic Mountain. It's a great introduction, both historical and philosophical, to western thought. It also parodies it, but it's a great introduction nonetheless.
>>25406047rec better books retard
>>25406032>Studying what?Biomedical sciences>Indicates that starting with the greeks is actually pointless for you.Why would it be? Where do I start? >>25406123Because there's more to life than the pragmatic? I have the time and resources for this pursuit, and I'm not expecting it to be remunerative or attract btiches.
>>25406048>The current state hasn't much to do with the ancient GreeksYou cannot argue that the philosophical progressions Europe experienced had an immense influence on its direction. As OP said, Marx is the result of predecessors, and they too were.
>>25406618>though they're a fun foundational study.The culture having the most impact on the West right now is that sickly "middle eastern" one again.
>>25406087 >The man described himself as knowing nothing. You need a scaffold to hang information on.Shut up, pseud.>>25406208 No you.>>25405999Look up the syllabi of courses you intend to take and pirate the books on the reading list. If first year readings are above your capability you shouldn't be going to school.
>>25405999>developments that led to the current state of our worldYou don’t really need to go any farther back than the 20th century for that desu
>>25406685>most historically illiterate/midwit post ITTImpressive.
>>25406048>unironically recommends high school teacher jiangHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>25406048>check out Predictive History with "prof" JiangLol, moron.
my brother in christ im gonna tell you the harsh truth that if you spend 1-2 hours reading western history every day for a year you will understand the world more than any books wouldobviously think critically and read more from the sources cited and follow up on stuff you suspect to be biasedit may not be what you want to hear but its what you need
>>25406781You have to be 18 to post here.
>>25406048what this and youlll have watched every brofessor jiang videohttps://youtu.be/_dt8plL8akE?si=IqVqSws0NQ_eOI7G
>>25406759I didn't know the French revolution happened in the 20th century?
>>25405999Rick Roderick has a great 8 part series on the history of philosophy. https://youtu.be/XQ_hUxuumk0?si=t0aqNAB6bJWEqi1lWatch The Self Under Siege series after this to get how philosophy developed through the 19th and 20th century.
>>25405999Read Lewis Mumford, Immanual Wallerstein, and Marx to get up today on modern history/political economy/technics. Read Francis Bacon because he's the godfather of modernity, and follow him by Descartes, Hobbes, Galileo, Newton, Copernicus/Kepler etc to understand the origins of modern science. Follow that all up with Arendt, Strauss, and Voegelin because they provide the endpoint assessment of where everything prior here went wrong and ended in totalitarianism.
>>25406581>Biomedical sciencesthat's pretty bad papiI'd recommendRichard Weaver's "Ideas Have Consequences" or Jacques Ellul's "Propaganda"the latter is easier to read but both are relatively long books; I actually recommend you don't get the audiobook version as you can read them much faster on a hardcopy (or kindle / kobo / whatever)they will make you understand where people get their "thoughts" from and will permit to re-orient yourself towards the primacy of acting (as opposed to the primacy of thinking, with which the West poisoned itself); "Propaganda" has a reiteration of many stuff other anons already mentioned (Mumford, Marx etc.)people may try to sell you on Ellul's other book, "The Technological Society"... but in my opinion the ideas presented are too vague, and you will find them reflected in "Propaganda" anyway (after all propaganda is the ultimate technique); you can see it as Marx without the delusion and mandatory atheism... if you wanted toanyway that's my opinionbtw "Ideas Have Consequences" has a pretty good summary for each chapter on its wikipedia page, if you want a quick dopamine hit>Our leaders have come in three stages. The first was the philosophic doctor. He was the best, for he was the possessor of the highest learning. At the point of this ruler there was a great interest in Humanities and Liberal arts. Next came the gentleman. He was the second best. He was an Idealist with self- restraint . His only shortcoming was that he had lost sight of the spiritual origin of self-discipline. In this time ideals existed and Ideals are of supreme importance. Last and worst was the specialist. He ignored all circles of knowledge except a particular field in which he immersed himself.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideas_Have_Consequences
>>25407330>they will make you understand where people get their "thoughts" from and will permit to re-orient yourself towards the primacy of acting (as opposed to the primacy of thinking, with which the West poisoned itself); "Propaganda" has a reiteration of many stuff other anons already mentioned (Mumford, Marx etc.)Thank you. This answers exactly to what I was thinking IE why people as a whole don't ask themselves why they believe in something anymore. Secondly, many of the people willing to discredit Christianity as a completely useless idea seemingly lack the confidence to thinking further ahead; namely to expose the beliefs in vogue to scrutiny as well. Why are the fruits of modern society preferable to those of eras before? Would these fanatical proponents of the current thing not be the same Bible-thumping witch hunters of centuries ago? We've seen that dogma doesn't require religion... That raises - am I self-aware? I realise I'm asking brainlet questions that have probably been answered as early as writing but I want to find the answers for myself. I really want to know why for example people in the West are so much against religion, yet totally fine with letting harmful ideologies stay alive (even to the point of allowing in invaders who have nothing to do with Europe).
>>25407350>Would these fanatical proponents of the current thing not be the same Bible-thumping witch hunters of centuries ago?not really, they would be the witchesironically "witch hunting" did not start with the Inquisition, but the Inquisition was the swan song of witch hunts, it was the moment when things got out of control, thanks to the printing press and other technological innovations -- as described in the Weaver bookthings got to the degree that the occasional witch (poisoner, abortionist, heretic etc.) had entire towns under their control, not to mention important political figures; it must have been similar to what happened with the USA in general, and the Democrat party in particular, in the past few decadesotherwise most of witches didn't bother anyone, just like gays before WW1... the LGBT craze that followed WW1, and the mass-produced homosexuals that came with it were the problem... most of the witches were just old hags who had knowledge of herbs and nature, and were usually not heretical>Why are the fruits of modern society preferable to those of eras before?it's to the advantage of the rabble to enslave people like engineers and medics -- two categories that before the French Revolution helped people out of their beliefs or principles... after the French Revolution they got to be mass-produced & brain washed (public education) and obliged to dance to the tune of "the people"... a cross between a hostage and a slave, if you willthese are the modern opium, maybe the modern fentanyl, of the people: medics you can abuse, engineers that you can threaten in order for them to "invent" you new toys, children you can "legally" molest (at public schools) etc.such things are not preferable for a normal persons, yet for the rabble it's a question of life and death; even atheist Jews like Ayn Rand are bothered by it; it goes against rationality and sustainability... yet it's the only way for the rabble to satisfy their envy (and other sins: pride, gluttony etc.)>I realise I'm asking brainlet questions that have probably been answered as early as writing but I want to find the answers for myself. I really want to know why for example people in the West are so much against religion, yet totally fine with letting harmful ideologies stay alive (even to the point of allowing in invaders who have nothing to do with Europe).read pic rel if you want to, although it serves to illuminate a specific problem, and not what you initially asked for (which demands philosophical satisfaction, not a political one)
>>25407391here's a juicy quote from the book>The bourgeois revolution, democracy, the ‘social’ revolution, and Communism are but episodes in the vast conflict between two great principles: one embodied by integral Christianity and the other by the anti-Church. If Satan rebelled in the name of freedom and equality vis-à-vis God, this was not merely so as ’not to serve’; rather, it was in order to subjugate others by replacing the legitimate authority of the Most High.>The people, therefore, are not the subject but the object of this evolution of alleged democratic progress, punctuated by violent revolutions accelerating its march.>Human hierarchies remained after people had started to break away from Christ: the Renaissance.>Princes and kings endured after breaking away from the Pope and the Emperor: the Reformation.>The bourgeoisie remained after turning away from the aristocracy, headed by its kings and princes: the French Revolution.>The people remained after transcending the plans of the bourgeoisie: 1848-1917.>Once the masses themselves had been transcended, all that remained was scum led by the Jew: 1917.>Once the revolution will have arrived at its lowest depth, as in Russia – and by extension, as will be the case once the entire world ends up looking like the decayed empire of the Tsars – it will not be concerned with what the people thinks any more than we might be concerned with what our rams or oxen have in mind: for we know that a few pieces of artillery would be quite enough to exterminate all herd animals put together without theslightest risk on our part.the author, a Catholic aristocrat, also has books on how the Vatican was corrupted, although in my opinion (and also in the opinion of such Christian-sceptics as Julius Evola) it's still the best option for humanity
>>25406813are you retarded or something? Everyone needs a basic foundation before getting deeper into things
>>25408485while you are right, I think OP is in already in a pickle and will be eaten alive if he has to both take courses and take history from scratchotherwise I would have just posted pic rel, as it has 5-7 books that which give you an excellent primer on who is currently "writing history"but that 1. needs a lot of reading 2. will probably conflict with the things he/she needs to focus on in his studies... Ellul's or Weaver's books are in the same ballpark as academic study in the med/tech field, so anon will probably have no conflict between the two activities (won't get depressed or unbalanced or something)btw since we are already on the topic of medtech, I ran across this quote (not from any book mentioned) and thought maybe OP can appreciate it>When one joins an intelligence service at the start of one’s career, one is involved in low level, apprentice-like, tasks and assignments usually far removed from traumatic action or profound moral considerations, much less decisions. In the course of a career such actions/decisions slowly grow into being, almost imperceptibly for many people. One may suddenly “awake” to where one is and realize that he/she had not been prepared for this, and also realize that one is now deeply into the situation, perhaps well beyond a point that one would have stepped into if it had been presented from the start. If this is the case, it’s too late to turn back.it says "intelligence service" but same can be said about any tech field... or medical: remember all the medics and nurses involved in Guantanamo Bay tortures... or remember that freemasonry uses the same technique of "taking oaths in advance" and "slippery slope"... so be careful and don't get duped along the way>>25405999
>>25405999Literally just read everything you can get your hands on, particularly well-written print media like broadsheet newspapers. When you encounter something interesting you don't know much about read the wiki entry. If your appetite is still there dive deeper and read a book on the topic. I'm only 25 and I have a broad, albeit shallow understanding of almost any topic you could possibly throw at me. From this point the next trick is when you are speaking to someone who is more knowledgeable than you are in a given topic or field, pick their brains about it, humour them, ask them open wnded questions and follow-up questions and LEARN something. This has the added benefit of you making friends in the process.
>>25408589OP clearly said that there's more to life than being pragmatic and you aim to pull him back in the bucket like the bugman you are.
>>25408597Lack of general knowledge and worldliness is a practical issue for which we have some clear practical solutions. Thankfully, all humans have an innate curiosity about the world, I merely attempted to give OP a nudge in the right direction.
>>25405999Marx is unironically your best bet to understand how society works. > idea what the relation between Hegel, Kant and Marx is and why the former two apparently prompted Marx to begin his works ;_; Try critique of Elements of the philosophy of Right
>>25407391>yet it's the only way for the rabble to satisfy their envy (and other sins: pride, gluttony etc.)It always come down to bread and circuses.
>>25409980>Try critique of Elements of the philosophy of Rightyeah, by Kevin McDonald, but the proper title is "Culture of Critique," the elements being inside
>>25408614>telling that op is wrong about not wanting to become even more pragmatic, he needs to be even more pragmatic>"the right direction"You must be a teacher, because a normal human being would neither be so delusional, nor so malicious. Such an attitude is developed only after decades of abusing innocent souls.
>>25408577Where is this quote from?
>>25410260Where did you get this idea that I'm trying to turn OP into some soulless materialist automaton? Are you severly deficient? Both OP and I seem to be in agreement about the virtue of pursuing knowledge for knowledge's sake.
>>25405999
>>25410271I read his posts.
Anything you read on World History is going to treat the Precolumbian Americas as a complete afterthought, even very reputable and otherwise excellent overviews.Supplement whatever you're reading on World History with 1491 by Charles Mann, which is an excellent introduction to the Precolumbian Americas that explains and conveys how it had way more shit going on then most people realize
>>25410281>no How to Make Friends and Influence People
>>25410423meh.the talmud makes more sense as an addition than some self-help crap.
>>25410314I, too, would be resentful of teachers, had they failed to endow me with rudimentary literacy skills.
>>25410435that meme is about meme-books you autist/shill
>>25405999Hi anon, do not worry, all is solvable with a bit of time and study. >development that led to the current state of our worldThis is a bit difficult to isolate but from the rest of the post it seems to me you're mostly interested in history of thought and history of philosophy, so I would start from there.For a good overview, the best thing to do would be to combine reading the originals with reading some manuals. If you study all of the original texts that are relevant this will take you many years, and it's difficult to understand what discussion there was around them and how they relate to each other (the Marx/Hegel example you give). The best way to go through it in my opinion is to find a manual or a manual series that you like and get a general overview of the history of philosophy and western thought, and from there go focus on authors you find interesting. I think Anthony Kenny's A New History of Western Philosophy is very readable and still manages to maintain good academic quality without becoming too pedantic. But there are also other options: A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell is also a good book, as is The Great Philosophers by Karl Jaspers (thought their approaches are very different). Other anons can also probably suggest better books. I wish you good luck, anon. Don't lose motivation and keep studying.
>>25405999Why not just read your university's curriculum? They give recommended readings for this reason
>>25406048This Jiang guy is not a professor, and he works at a fraudulent school that chews through educators
>>25410465Start now.
>>25410492and your point is?
>>25405999haha have fun in college, dont forget to get beaten at a protest as human rights end where israeli rights begin. the only valuable classes left are chemistry labs
>>25410630that you should keep antisemitic jokes from when they are relevant
>>25410575>not a professornot smart. academics need to give him an honolaly deglee then continue to say every lelevant concept comes from the university
>>25410317thank you anon, I'm not the OP but that looks like an awesome book
>>25410633> bawwww my butt
>>25410633>antisemitic jokes isn't relevant in a meme about politicslol okay aspie.lurk more.
>>25410648lol I missed the text. i thought it was some joke about /lit/ meme-books, which would have actually been funnybut like this it's just another example for>LE>FT>CA>NT>ME>ME:3
>feels like he doesn't understand the world>thinks reading kant, hegel, and marx will helpJesus Christ. You're only going to isolate yourself further from the world.Don't let anyone who values Hegel, especially, tell you that they understand anything.
>>25406048JIANGTRVKE
>>25410712Rising to an elevated level of abstraction, while not isolating yourself from the world, is truly a supreme art. One that cannot be done alone, but through the world you choose to inhabit.Cubists, especially Picasso, were a great master of this, and their work a great catalyst for others. The work of the Russian Constructivists (pic rel) scared Stalin so much that he had to shut it down. Almost all of the Italian Futurists turned back to their Catholic religion, and they made art with that subject matter.Examples are many, and there are ways, but obviously it's not to the advantage of the powers that be... they prefer things like abhorrent Jewish "dancing buildings," street-shitter kitsch, and commieblocks, in order to destroy the soul, senses, and spirit of white people (and non-whites born with enough desire for meaning, beauty, and awareness).
>>25411992
