After 2,800 years, how is the 1st book still the best book?
>>25408652Gilgamesh and Genesis came before. Hesiod may have come before
>>25408652fbbb
It was kinda boring desu. Hunger games was better.
>>25408652The odyssey is way better but sadly is missing like 75% of the story
>>25408858Wait what? Or are you talking about the whole epic cycle
>>25408676There is no indication genesis is older. It's not even the oldest book in the bible.
It's much older than 2800 years, but yes, it is the greatest book of all time
>>25410344No, theres research for this google it
>>25409940I wouldnt say 75% is missing but the Odyssey does end with a significant narrative thread unresolved. Odysseus is instructed by Tiresias, after the suitors are dealt with, to take an oar and journey inland until he meets a man who has no idea what it is he's carrying and has no concept of the sea. Then Odysseus is to sacrifice to Poseidon on that spot and return home and sacrifice to all the gods, only then will he be assured of peace and prosperity for the rest of his days. The Odyssey ends with a reconciliation between Odysseus' household and the relatives of the slain suitors and Odysseus' final journey is unaccounted for.
>>25408652Should I read the Wilson or Fagles translation?
>>25410944i read my own translation :^)
>>25410949May I have a copy?
>>25410944Fagles
>>25408678this
>>25408652mankind is so excellent that it created the perfect work of literature on day one
>>25410490It’s really obvious that genesis wasn’t in a complete form until during or after the Babylonian exile, centuries after the Iliad. I know Jews and Christian’s feel the need to try really hard to make Judaism, an Iron Age religion, feel older than it is so it can promulgate its false claim to being the first monotheistic faith but we really shouldn’t humour them. You’re right about Gilgamesh though.
>>25408652What’s the best version to read in English? I don’t have the time to learn Ancient Greek.
>>25412488I started the Peter Green version and have found it excellent and compelling.
>>25408676Genesis was written around 400 years after the Iliad.
>>25410944popelattimore fagles
>>25413797>All poemsIs there one that isn't a poem.
>>25413830>Is there one that isn't a poem.The Iliad is a poem, fucking retard
>>25413830are you asking for a prose translation? you really shouldn't be reading homer in prose, especially as a first-timer
>>25413830**«καπνὸς χαλκοῦ»***(προοίμιον)*ναί... ναί... ἆ...σποδὸς ἐπὶ τραπέζῃ, χρυσὸς ἐν κονίῃ·ἆ... φέρε...*(στροφή αʹ)*λάμπει κόρυς, ἀλλ᾽ ἡ ἑστία ψυχρά·πᾶσα πόλις μεγαλαυχεῖ, τις δ᾽ αἰεὶ πίπτει.Μοῖραν καλέουσιν· ἐγὼ δὲ χρέος ἄπληστον.αἱ γυναῖκες ἀριθμοῦσιν ἃ θεοὶ λανθάνουσιν.ψιθυρίζουσιν εὐχὰς διὰ καπνοῦ,μέγα δ᾽ ἔπος εἰς γέλωτα πίπτει.ἥρως μὲν χόλον ἔχει, χόλος δὲ θρόνον·αἱ δὲ μητέρες οἶκον φέρουσιν.*(ἐπωδός)*χαλκός, αἷμα, χρυσός, ἰός·κτίζετε βασιλείαν—εἶτα κόνις γίνεται.τίς δάπεδον καθαριεῖ;οὐ βασιλῆες δαφνηφόροι.χαλκός, αἷμα, χρυσός, ἰός·πᾶς ὕμνος λήγει· «τίνι πιστεύσομεν;»μέγας ὁ κόσμος βοᾷ,ἡ δὲ σιγὴ βαρεῖα.*(στροφή βʹ)*Ἀχιλλεὺς ταχύς· πένθος δὲ θᾶσσον.κλέος λάμπει, ἡμέρα δὲ σβέννυται.Ἕκτωρ πέπτωκε, τεῖχος ἀναπνέει.πᾶσα νίκη σκιὰν ἀμφιέννυται.γυνὴ παρὰ θυρίδι, μίτον ἔχουσα,ῥάπτει τὰ ξίφη διεσκόρπισαν.οὐδεὶς στεφανοῖτὰς μενούσας.*(ἐξόδιον)*ἆ...σποδὸς οὐκ οἶδε κλέος.πῦρ οὐκ ἀναγινώσκει ᾠδάς.εἰ τόδε κλέος ἐστίν, λέγε πᾶν·οὐ μόνον ἄνδρας,ἀλλὰ καὶ τὴν κόνιν ὑπὸ τοῖς ποσίν.
>And when Hera of the white arms saw what Apollo who strikes from afar had done, she became angry and appeared to the strong greaved Danaans, fighting along the left of the ditch, in the likeness of Nestor and said to them>Why do you shrink from the Trojans now, when we know from the oracles that surely we shall be victorious and sack strong-walled Troy? For if we press on then there is glory, but if we retreat to the ships we will at best return empty-handed and at worst be unable to return to the land of your fathers and mothers, who will surely mourn you that they do not have a son to bury.>Encouraged, Diomedes, godlike, donned his corselet, took on his three layered ox hide shield, and silver-studded sword, and helmet whose feathers in the wind riffled terribly, and, as a boar when is chased by a shephard and his sons alongside their dogs, so as to protect their flock, finds itself at a river, but then a lion appears and frightens the boar so that the boar runs away from the river and towards the hunters, so did Diomedes descend horribly upon the Trojans.>Diomedes threw his spear first at Aeschopoloreleus son of Typones who ducked, and the spear instead hit glorious Oemiones son of Marestes, greatest among the Laokaeans, who tended the oxen and orchards of Laeokea and was treated by the locals as a god. Oemiones raised his shield in front of the spear, but the spear broke through and pierced him above the left nipple, bending upwards so as to leave through his throat. And the dark mist covered the eyes of Oemiones. Next Diomedes struck down Herops..>repeat for thousands of linesBRAVO HOMER GREATEST "BOOK" OF ALL TIME
>>25410944Either/or. Both are good.
>>25408676>>25410344>>25410490Parts of the Pentateuch are definitely older by a solid margin. The final format probably dates to King Josiah's reforms, although a minority put it before or after. Some fragments even predate Hebrew.Amos, the oldest complete book overwhelmingly taken as complete is probably a bit older than Homer and certainly not much later.
>>25412485>"Completed form."Ok, but stories like the Ark have been found in cruniform tablets 4,000 years old.
>>25413907Yes, the Babylonian versions of those stories with the Babylonian names and the Babylonian gods, which the Jewish version very obviously copied because some of the Babylonian copies predate the Jewish ones and the Jewish presence in Babylon by centuries (as much as a millenium IIRC). Not to mention that mount Ararat makes a lot more sense as a focus point of a story written it Mesopotamia than it does one written in Israel/Judaea because it’s much closer. Or the fact that a flood myth also fits a lot better originating with Mesopotamian culture and geography compared to a place that floods much less and much less often.
tell me you aren't a shill that saw a video and now you just want to assume everything it said is true.
>>25414016he thinks the iliad is the first & most venerated poem in the western canon? must’ve seen some video.
>>25412485>It’s really obvious that genesis wasn’t in a complete form until during or after the Babylonian exileHow is it obvious?
>>25412488Decide for yourself:https://www.iliadtranslations.com/Personally I can't understand why everyone here is constantly sucking off Fagles and Lattimore: I find Fitzgerald to be the only one who hits the right balance between readability, poetry, and flow. Green seems maybe okay if you need everything to have a kind of verve or momentum to it with more contemporary phrasing. I swear there's some kind of huge conjob, shill campaign, or mind virus making everyone recommend such middling translations when the standard has already been set.
>>25408652This year I've read both the iliad and the odyssey finally and thoroughly enjoyed them. For a long time, I've considered them to be just ancient works that you might like to read once in your lifetime like visiting some tourist heritages but I found that both of them are nothing like I expected.
>>25413842Yes I am asking for prose. IDC about poems
>>25408652Cypria was the first book in the collection, somehow despite it being popular, it vanished from history.
>>25415081No, it's just 1st in the "cycle" narrative, most people even back in ancient times thought the other parts of the cycle were basically fan fiction filling in the gaps left by the Iliad and Odyssey, there's no indication the whole thing was written in collaboration or in order.However it's certain that the overall structural myth of the Trojan war predates any narrative we still have by hundreds of years at least. The Iliad and Odyssey was told to an audience who was already familiar with the overall framework.
>>25414906Well you clearly care about the Iliad, a poem, enough to ask for ways to read it, so you’re wrong
>>25414033I was there.
>>25413846Greeks might be fags, but their alphabet looks pretty cool.
>>25414033Because of the stories in genesis that are taken from pre-existing Babylonian myths and because genesis is consistently dated to that period. There are “later” books in the Old Testament that are clearly older in composition than genesis, their depiction of God and the creation of the universe is clearly a more archaic form than what’s presented in Genesis as well.
>>25415263Well the poem aspect is irrelevant since I am not gonna read it in ancient Greek anyway. If not I'd rather just read prose or not at all.
>>25415410Samuel Butler or E.V. Rieu.
>>25415429 (Me)Oh wait I was looking at Odysseus.
>>25415410Well I guess my previous answer worked, too.
>>25415410training wheels
